Military Commissions Act backfires on accused US officials

[kpete]

BERLIN - Civil rights activists filed suit Tuesday asking German prosecutors to open a war crimes investigation of outgoing
Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and a host of other U.S. officials for their alleged roles in abuse at
Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and Guantanamo Bay.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061114/ap_on_re_eu/germany_rumsfeld_suit


11/12/2006
Military Commissions Act backfires on accused US officials

"The victims now claim that the German Courts have jurisdiction because, in light of the MCA, the American courts do not."

If a German court agrees to file war crimes charges against Donald Rumsfeld, he can blame the Military Commissions Act of 2006. Germany’s universal war crimes law grants the country jurisdiction over war crimes committed anywhere in the world, but the court rejected a 2004 attempt by Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo inmates to have Rumsfeld charged because it found that the crimes in question were covered by US law.

But aside from authorizing Rumsfeld and the president to do whatever they want to whomever they want, wherever and whenever and for as long as they want, the Military Commissions Act stripped “unlawful combatants” of access to US courts while amending the War Crimes Act of 1996 and granting retroactive immunity to any US official who violated the original version. The plaintiffs now have no recourse under US law; unless the German court finds that they have no evidence US officials were responsible for the alleged crimes — which will be difficult since US officials have acknowledged responsibility in at least once instance — it may face a choice between filing the charges or branding the German war crimes law as hollow.

The suit also names attorney general Alberto Gonzales, Dick Cheney’s chief of staff David Addington and others. For more information on those named and an HTML version of the background paper from the Center for Constitutional Rights (Acrobat file here), see the brief biographies and links below (click on the (more) link if you’re on our front page). The suit may name other defendants; we’ve requested that information and if there are additional ones, we’ll add them when the names become available.

Following is a list of defendants named in the summary. Click on the “news links” for a chronological index of related news items about the defendants. Some of them lead to stories that are now behind paid archive walls, but you can usually dig up free versions with a little effort.

see list of criminals and their crimes here:
http://www.btcnews.com/btcnews/1518

[Epiphany4z]

1. oops

somebody didn't think it through ...seems to be a pattern with the GW crowed.

[Wiley50]

13. Rummy Decides To Cancel Meeting With German Defense Minister

I posted this late last night so it sunk
with only one (very funny reply from bleever

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2710564&mesg_id=2710564

So I'll repost here and then go back and kick that thread

I was just listening to Malloy on Nova M last night and during the
bottom of the hour Air America newscast I heard this item reported:

Donald Rumsfield has decided not to accompany George Bush to Europe
at the end of the month. He has said that he has changed his plans
because of his resignation. Rummy was to meet with the German Defense Minister in Latvia.

GEE. I wonder if there is any OTHER REASON he is not going to meet
with the GERMAN defense Minister in EUROPE?

Could it be..

Because...

Oh I don't know...

maybe...

SATAN!

could be subject to arrest in Europe by then?

[Epiphany4z]

22. ya I heard that

on the cable newz...they said it was because he was continuing to scale back his meetings ect..since his resignation ...no mention of german charges.

[malaise]

27. He can be arrested anywhere in Europe.

No more European trips for Rummy. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

[Monk06]

46. Hello Angie, Don here. Hey listen I double booked can we do a conference call?

[LynnTheDem]

2. The MCA means the Hague will take on US war criminals, too.

The Hague works the same way as the German courts; if the nation of the accused won't or can't bring the accused to trial, the Hague will.

Righte\wingnuts; their own worst enemy. And the stupidest MFers ever.

[mmonk]

3. Yes

Planned for a awhile now by CCR and the FIDH. It's going to be interesting to see who besides Rumsfeld will follow suit with forced resignations.

[pberq]

4. thanks kpete - you're on top of it as always!

[QuestionAll...]

32. yes, a big thank you to kpete...

I've not had the time lately to look over what's happening on DU, but I can be assured that when I read kpete's posts that I get some valuable info.

thank you so much.

[Kagemusha]

5. While I don't think reapolitik will ever tolerate trials of Western officials

I completely agree with the logic behind citing the MCA here. Citing the law as proof that the US court system won't touch the issue is in no way an improper reading of the intent and reality of the law, even if the law is someday overturned.

[nolabels]

6. Looks like there will be no more European vacations for the NeoCons

Guess they will just have see it like the rest of poor folks, from a far in pictures.

http://sf.indymedia.org/imc/imc113.html

[civildisoBDence]

18. But they may get to know Paraguay intimately, just like so many (other)

Nazis.

Newsprism

[blogslut]

7. interesting

They never think their swords will have a double edge when they swing them, do they?

[conscious evolution]

38. No they don't

This is not the only instance where their laws are going to come back and bite their asses off.

conscious evolution (495 posts) Mon Nov-13-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. With warrant lees wiretapping being all the rage these days?
Gotta protect the homeland from terra!

Alert | Add to my Journal Printer Friendly | Permalink | Edit | Reply | Top
CorpGovActivist (1000+ posts) Mon Nov-13-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Ironic, Huh?
Some of those vigilant badge-wielders took the new powers, and used them against the bad guys.

; )

- Dave

If you haven't been following these threads you really should.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/CorpGovActivist
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/IdesOfOctober

[Chimichurri]

8. I hope Germany does the right thing.

[Phredicles]

31. If it doesn't happen in Germany,

Is there another coutry we could look to to have the combination of huevos and international standing to pull this off?

[druidity33]

36. Venezuela? n/t

[Phredicles]

39. Venezuela: Huevos-check; International prestige-well, I like Chavez, but

the thing about Germany is, if they brought an indictment, I believe the whole world would have to take notice and take it seriously, without suspecting a simple effort to make political hay. There aren't many other countires like that; maybe one of the Scandinavian ones?

[FredStembottom]

9. Now THAT is interesting!

I hope the MCA brings a storm of unimtended consequences like this!
US officials confined to the US forever would be a lovely comeuppance.

[Spiffarino]

10. Whether or not they go to prison, a conviction will be sweet

These turkeys will be branded as international war criminals and will be restricted to the US and "friendly" nations that are willing to suffer torturers.

Rummy and his crew with the same status as Pinochet? Fabulous.

[Phredicles]

11. There's gotta be a big polysyllabic German word for

"hoist on their own petard". :evilgrin:

Plus, I have to think the Germans recognize war crimes and crimes against humanity when they see 'em...

[populistdriven]

48. well... my german is rusty so I proofed these idioms on about.com - here ya go

He who eats fire shits sparks! :D

"Wer Feuer frißt, scheißt Funken." - north german
"Wer Feuer frißt, läßt Funken fahren." (...lets sparks fly.) - south german


these also:

"Das hast du dir selbst eingebrockt."
You got yourself into this mess. You've only yourself to blame for that.


"Was man sich eingebrockt hat, muss man auch auslöffeln."
You've made your bed, now you must lie/sleep in it. You have to dish out what you cooked up.


"ins Fettnäpfchen treten"
to put one's foot in it, put one's foot in one's mouth, commit a faux pas ("to step into the grease bowl")


"Der Krug geht so lange zum Brunnen, bis er bricht."
One day you'll take it too far. ("the pitcher goes to the well until it breaks")


"Was man sich eingebrockt hat, muss man auch auslöffeln."
You've made your bed, now you must lie in it. As you have brewed, so must you drink.

[Phredicles]

56. "Wer Feuer frißt, scheißt Funken." - Very to the point!

Sweet - thanks!:D

[riverwalker]

12. this is big

and this link is excellant for PDF challenged computers.

http://www.btcnews.com/btcnews/other_pdf/Background_Brief_on_German_Case.html

How the 2006 Complaint Is a Stronger Case:

The grounds for the 2005 dismissal are no longer justified:
The prosecutor’s original decision to dismiss the case was solely based on the assumption that an ongoing investigation was being carried out in the U.S. regarding the Abu Ghraib scandal. We now have extensive evidence that demonstrates that this investigation was directed only towards the criminal culpability of the lowest ranking military personnel. Indeed, some of these very defendants have been or are being rewarded with higher-level appointments and medals. The investigative and prosecutorial functions in the United States are currently directly controlled by the ones involved in the conspiracy to perpetrate war crimes and named in this complaint, which politically blocks possible investigations and criminal prosecutions. Furthermore, the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 is unquestionably the clearest illustration of such unwillingness to prosecute Americans for war crimes.

New evidence:
Extraordinary new materials, documentation and testimonies that have come to light over the past two years – about what the plaintiffs went through (Mr. al Qahtani is a new plaintiff to the case), about the signed memos that led to the justification and practice of torture, and about the defendants’ personal involvement – only strengthen the case.

In addition, former U.S. Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, a defendant in the earlier complaint as the commanding officer at Abu Ghraib, is now providing testimony and will testify on behalf of the plaintiffs.

<more at link>

[jumpoffdaplanet]

14. Brilliant!

And so ironic.

Germany takes on war crimials, and protects the world from them.

I hope the neo-cons rot in prison for the rest of the century.

[leveymg]

15. Under the UN Convention Against Torture, other states MUST initiate

prosecution against any party to the CAT treaty that is unable or unwilling to prosecute offenders within its own borders.

They have no idea what they've just set off. History will show that this was the stupidest bunch of war criminals, ever.

See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/21/125733/035

Urge Your GOP Rep and Senator to "Legalize" Torture
by leveymg
Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 09:57:33 AM PST
The Republican-controlled Congress is on the verge of passing a Bill authorizing the President to commit war crimes and torture after the fact. A version of that measure passed the House Judiciary Committee last night after a party-line vote. The GOP Bill also abolishes habeas corpus for persons deemed "enemy combatants". See, http://www.dailykos.com/...

For those legislators who voted in favor of such a law, this vote was a virtual invitation to indictment for war crimes the rest of the world is obligated to prosecute under the UN Convention Against Torture.

The best thing Democrats can do is to hand the GOP another length of rope, and stand out of the way after the final party-line vote is counted. When the trap door opens, it'll be every Member of Congress who passed the measure. By their complicity after the fact in war crimes and torture, the GOP Congress may end up swinging alongside Bush and his subordinates down the line. This is the unspoken reason why McCain, John Warner, and Colin Powell don't want this Bill to become law.

MORE below . . .

leveymg's diary :: ::
This isn't just an abstract matter.

Exhibit 1 - the man packed in ice at Abu Ghraib, and a number of others like him in Iraq and Afganistan, who died as a result of a U.S. policy that condoned mistreatment during custody and interrogation:

http://www.underthesamesun.org/...

For GOP Congressmen, that vote in favor of the Sensenbrenner Bill amounted to making themselves accessories after the fact to capital crimes.

If U.S. courts can't or won't try those who violated The War Crimes Act of 1996 (WCA), and the Torture Act of 2000 (TA), the rest of the world is obligated to commence prosecutions under the terms of the UN Convention Against Torture, (CAT), which the original WCA implemented.

This diary explains the mechanisms that make that possible under federal and international law.

[htuttle]

29. The same is true of the jurisdiction of the ICC, IIRC

The ICC only has jurisdiction in those cases where the 'home country' cannot or will not prosecute. By 'legalizing' international war crimes under US law, that puts them under the jurisdiction of the ICC.

[LeftCoast]

16. I doubt this will go to trial

The German political establishment is not going to want anything to do with this trial. They've just spent the last couple of years trying to get back in the good graces of the US administration and this would ruin those efforts (in their mind).

[mmonk]

17. It was refused the first time on the basis

that they would be tried in U.S. courts. However, with the MCA, that argument is mute. Now, the judge will be under pressure to allow the charges.

[LeftCoast]

19. That's a good point - I still think the court will weasle out somehow tho

:shrug:

[mmonk]

23. It will be interesting. I hope they won't wimp out.

It will depend on the judge and how much he/she truly supports universal jurisdiction.

[lillilbigone]

61. They know this administration wont last forever. nt

[SusanaMontana41]

20. They sowed it.

Let 'em reap it.

[spuddonna]

21. I have a question...

I'd read a little while back that the MCA has not been signed by Bush yet? Is that true? Someone mentioned that without his signature, in effect a 'pocket veto' would occur of the bill.

Just morning musings as I drink my coffee... Thanks, kpete!!

ETA: Now that I'm thinking about it, is it possible that Bush didn't sign it for exactly this reason? Did Rummy and Gonzo suddenly realize what they had wrought and stop Bush's hand?

[weldon berger]

25. No, he signed it October 17

And with great fanfare. He's proud of that puppy.

[spuddonna]

35. Thanks for that!

I must be gettin' slow in my old age! :)

Wow, talk about karmic justice!

[weldon berger]

45. You're welcome

I'm conscious of it because I was waiting for the signing statement saying "I don't have to abide by this lily-livered twaddle if I don't want to," and then in the briefing that day Tony Snow said there wouldn't be one because "we got everything we wanted." And I thought, holy crap.

[spuddonna]

55. Holy crap is right...

You know, I've said "holy crap" (or its more vulgar variant) so many times over the past six years that I expect to see turds with halos flying around any day now...

And hey, if I haven't said it already, welcome to DU! :hi:

[Canuckistanian]

24. That's right, good point

The World Court is supposed to be a body that steps in and prosecutes major crimes, but only when the criminal's country utterly fails to bring him to justice or is unable to.

I think the MCA qualifies as "an utter failure" to bring justice.

[weldon berger]

26. Thanks for the props, kpete

I'm not at all sure the court will accept the suit and go forward since the US has all sorts of mechanisms for bringing pressure to bear on Germany, but even if it fails it'll be an instructional failure. Conversely, if the evidence is as solid as the attorneys say the court will be under a lot of popular pressure in Germany to grant it because not doing so could undermine the country's war crimes statute. High drama, high noon ...

[DearAbby]

28. I am so ashamed

These people will receive what is coming to them, what they have done against humanity and this country. Karma/Justice it's coming.

Somehow I can't seem to whip up a smidgen of sympathy for them.

[KnaveRupe]

30. Why would the Germans cross the Bush Administration?

Whoops. Never mind.

[WHAT]

33. What about Yoo?...

I just wonder.

I hope he's included, too, because it might work to thwart enablers in the guise of academics. Universities should not be vulnerable to this type of insidious corruption. I know there's a difference between stifling unpopular inquiries but I don't think Yoo would fall into that category. I have to think about it some more; it's just that degradation of standards in universities bothers me a lot. If there's no standards, there's no trust.

[weldon berger]

34. He's in there

Along with Alberto Gonzales, Jay Bybee, who signed off on the Yoo memo, Cheney's chief of staff David Addington and some military brass. If you click on kpete's link in his top post you'll find a list of the defendants and links to news coverage about them.

[readmoreoften]

37. A friend of a friend's perspective.

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a fellow professor at the university where I teach. My friend is also an ex-political prisoner. He's an acquaintance of the man who filed the suit and was actually speaking to him about the lawsuit last week. There is no real hope that ANYTHING will come of it, so don't get too excited about it. The point of the suit is to enter the Administration's crimes into the public record, not to actually convict them. The hope is that someday when there is a will to actually prosecute them, this lawsuit will serve as evidence.

It's still a positive development, nonetheless.

[Phredicles]

40. If you could please pass along that this effort has the admiration and

gratitude of many people in the US, that would really be great.:)

[Straight Shooter]

42. I second that motion.

The irony is staggering, the idea of Germany prosecuting U.S. officials for war crimes. Go for it. :thumbsup:

[readmoreoften]

43. I will definitely do so. :)

I'm not sure how close they are, or if this was just dinner party conversation. He just came back from a trip to Germany. He was also invited to Clinton's 60th birthday party here in NYC (oddly enough, he is not a great fan of Clinton, his is further to left--he's also not American) and he said that he had some fascinating conversations with an ex-CIA agent and an M15 agent that he met there. He also ran into a friend of his at the NYT. The gist of their conversations was that the administration is as hellbent on Iran as they were on Iraq. Keep in mind, please, that this is friend of a friend stuff--gossip. But that being said, major news stories aren't based on much more than gossip these days anyway. My friend and I were talking about the utter bankrupcy of news media. How can news be gotten? How can anyone be sure of anything. It's a terrible situation.

[sakabatou]

41. I want Chney, Bush and Wolfowitz tried as well

[volstork]

44. THIS is called

KARMA, my friends!

[TahitiNut]

50. Well, metaphorically at least, they've been "hoisted on their own petard.'

A very good example of that metaphor, actually.

[pnorman]

47. "The victims now claim that the German Courts have jurisdiction"

I may have been careless, but I was unable to find that sentence in either of the 2 links supplied. Can you please help?

pnorman
PS: I had goofed badly by inattention, earlier on one of my DU postings. Please attribute that to post-election euphoria. Likewise, if I'm making a doofus of myself here.

[Jcrowley]

49. K & R

http://www.ccr-ny.org/v2/reports/report.asp?ObjID=zQrItml3Gv&Content=845

[rgbecker]

51. Let the trials begin!

How about in Nuremberg for old times sake?

[neuvocat]

52. Question:

How exactly does the MCA give the german court more authority than it would have had before?

(Edited to ask aforementioned question.)

[tritsofme]

53. Rummy can now join the ranks of great American patriots

like Henry Kissinger who cannot travel very far away from our borders for fear of being thrown in jail for heinous war crimes.

[Maraya1969]

54. What if the new Democratic leaders revoke the MCA? Aren't they

obligated for the moral reasons we all know to fight to get it ousted?

[Az_lefty]

57. these screw ups just can't get anything right..

:rofl:

[Jacobin]

58. I've always thought Alberto Gonzales was a putz

Extremely lightweight legal mind. Obviously wasn't thinking ahead to protect his partners in crime.

Good for Germany

[eviltwin2525]

59. I'm sorry, but this is a stupid idea, and we should stop immediately

Nothing is more certain to enrage and mobilize the rightwingfundywackonutjobs more than a German court trying Publicans....except maybe a French court trying them.
What is needed is no-holds-barred Congressional hearings -- and that's what we're about to get. Give the ball to Conyers and get out of his way.

[Land Shark]

60. Lawyers charged at Nuremburg had colorable defenses for Germany's positions

during the war, which constituted advocacy for war crimes or trying to put a legalistic framework on them, it did not prevent them from being sentenced...

substance over form...