Things that everbody knows but can't be said

[Astrad]

Here's some obvious things that everyone knows (well almost everyone who has two brain cells to rub together) but are never said in a significant public way (i.e. on television):

-The Iraq War is an unmitigated disaster of epic proportions, it is in fact undefendable from any perspective
-George Bush is not intelligent enough to be president
-National Health Care would greatly benefit the citizenry of the United States
-Publically funded elections are the only way to get corporate and regressive interest groups (evangelicals, NRA) out of politics
-US Mid-East policy is counter productive to the safety of American citizens particularly in regards to the Israeli-Palestinian situation
-The Republican party is fiscally irresponsible to an obscene degree
-In US politics the interests of the few count more than the interests of the many
-The National Defense budget is far too high and will have to come down
-It's absurd that the US has 2000 nuclear weapons on high alert at all times, they serve no purpose and are a constant danger to world peace and the lives of US citizens

To me these are givens and not really worth debating. What depresses is me is how these obvious facts can't even get a bit of air time. Which leads me to the final given.

-The range of true debate allowed in US media (of course not including the internet) is extremely narrow

I apologize for the obviousness of the post. :)

[villager]

1. it does make you realize, profoundly, the derangement of the times

Even "Democrats" aren't allowed to speak truth, really...

[Vincardog]

2. Add paper ballots and random audits and I am there K & R

[trotsky]

3. I would amend your 3rd item to say:

National Health Care would greatly benefit the citizenry and corporations of the United States

There was just a story on the news last night about GM & the other American automakers complaining how much it costs them to provide health insurance to their employees. Far more than any foreign car manufacturers.

We will eventually get a single-payer system, and it will be because the corporations demand it.

[Astrad]

4. Excellent point.

I live in Ontario where our government has tried and succeeded numerous times to lure auto manufacturers away from the US on the grounds that they don't have to pay health care here.

[nashville_brook]

15. just got that point from Automotive News Service!

it's the "healthcare industry" against all other industries in this fight. so glad Frist is gone.

[trof]

36. Kee-Rect! Would help level the playing field for U.S. employers.

[dysfunctional press]

45. and unfortunately...

it won't be UNTIL the corporations demand it.

[trotsky]

56. Oh yes.

All too true.

[Ezlivin]

5. Marijuana should be legal

The drinking age should match the voting and induction age.

[Richard Steele]

10. I would rephrase that to match the style of the OP:

"Everyone knows that marijuana is no big deal."

[emulatorloo]

6. kick and rec n/t

[NYCGirl]

7. Here's someone on TV saying a lot of those things:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fyVBVWKAnE8

[hsher]

8. "AHHHH." :) It felt so good reading this!

My shoulders just came down about a foot. It feels so good to see truth in print, doesn't it? I would add one, though:

The internet is too mean-spirited and out of control, and some kind of censures DO actually need to be put in place to return civility and manners to this medium. Even the telephone and the library have rules - say "hello" pleasantly, ask "may I please speak to...", do not run, yell or use cell phones in the library - so why do we freak out like a bunch of babies whenever somebody with sense just says, "There should be agreed-upon manners on the internet"?

We've failed at this as a society, so yes, there DO need to be brought in some technological moderators to slow email and posting speed down, to prompt us "are you sure you want to say that?", to remove curse words, slurs and flame bait, and to give users the option to UNSEND EMAILS.

Why is that so bad...?

K&R, by the way :kick:

[Mythsaje]

12. "Agreed-upon manners on the internet?"

We don't even have agreed-upon manners in real life.

The anonymity of the internet makes the enforcement of any such rules problematic. You can make any rules you like, but that doesn't mean anyone has to OBEY them.

[WHAT]

24. ya wanna take the "art" outta artifice?...

I kinda enjoy the stilted and dramatic presentation, the jovial characterization, the flippancy of impulse.

No, I don't think it would be as much fun if everything was mannerly (nor as telling). There are some postings that are serious and eloquent, when they need to be...example: arendt (sp) yesterday?!

[Brazenly Liberal]

35. That's a complete nonstarter. Really.

Individual interactive sites can institute rules of conduct and then enforce them, but that's the closest you're ever going to get. Having rules of conduct for the entire internet is never going to happen.

1. As Mythsaje said, we can't even agree on what constitutes "manners" in real life. The internet is a global entity - if you can't agree with the guy down the street on what's appropriate, try it with people all over the world. You'll find what seems obvious to you isn't obvious at all to millions.

2. Who is it you think will institute and enforce these rules? Who will have the authority to censure? Nobody owns the internet. Nobody's in charge. It's that nature of the internet tnat is its best and worst feature. At its best, it allows anyone an opportunity to speak with the world. At its worst, it allows anyone an opportunity to speak with the world.

3. Freedom of expression is and always has been a two-sided coin. As soon as you try to prevent the expression of ideas you don't like, you will inevitably infringe upon its use for speaking good. Censorship is a slippery slope.

And, let me tell you, the day some "technical monitor" is turning its cybereye on all email is the day the internet has finally beocme just one big mall. For anything else, it will be useless.

[hsher]

40. You'll change your mind...

... the day you get stalked over it.

[Brazenly Liberal]

44. Change my mind about what?

What a silly thing to say! I'm not asking this in a sarcastic way, but do you understand what the internet is and how it works?

How is it you imagine cyberstalking - of me or anyone else - would affect the reality that it is impossible to control the internet the way you propose? I'll ask again, though you didn't answer it the first time, who do you think is "in charge"? Who do you think has the power to exert this control? Who do you think is able to monitor everything on the internet even if it was possible and a good idea?

A friend of mine was cyberstalked. It was ugly and terrifying and went on for months. It was a truly shiteous experience, one I would not wish on anyone else, not even the Coultergeist. That being said, draconian measures curtailing other people's freedom rarely do anything to prevent crime on the streets and have absolutely no hope of doing so on the net.

[hsher]

58. I understand, but...

As an entrepreneur I instinctively smile and then get a hard-on whenever anybody says something "can't be done" :)

[twilight_sailing]

9. Real reality, imagine that!

You're right. These things are obviously true and never spoken of.
I wonder why this is so.

[blogslut]

11. Here's another

Helping poor nations become autonomous is against the corporate interests of the United States.

edit: i need a nap

[Tigermoose]

13. K & R for the 800 lbs gorillas

This country is delusional.

[indepat]

14. Either a 'puke president and congress or 'puke control of congress in all but two years since 1981

have wrought unmitigated disasters upon this country and most of its people, many of which are irreparable, such as fiscal, environmental, and war-related/other deaths and maimings. The damage to the rule of law, the Constitution, international law and treaties, friendships and alliances, world order, the infrastructure and most of the rest can hopefully be mostly repaired over time if neocon influence, power and policies can be completely neutered. :patriot:

[rman]

16. Well worth it stating the obvious from time to time,

especially if it is mentioned so rarely.

[GeorgeGist]

17. And here's one that's not so obvious...

winner-take-all democracy is tyranny.

[WiseButAngrySara]

18. George Bush is an unmitigated disaster! ....n/t

[leftupnorth]

19. That should be a flyer, handout or LTTE! n/t

[petgoat]

20. I've got to disagree with the first two points

From the perspective of looting the public treasury for the benefit of
Bush's cronies, of putting the federal government into debt so Grover
Norquist can drown it in his bathtub, and of creating the climate to
justify a continued military budget of $500 billion a year for the next
20 years (when otherwise you'd think we could shrink it to the $75 billion
a Russia or China spends), IRAQ IS A CATASTROPHIC SUCCESS!

Bush's perceived lack of intelligence may have been a deliberately crafted
myth. In times past it served him well: When pointy-headed intellectuals
derided his stupidity, Middle Americans instinctively identified with him.
Diminished Capacity is going to be his defense at The Hague. Let's not
help him with it. The man has a Harvard MBA, and got the Supreme Court
to declare him President. Don't misunderestimate him.

Edited to add: But hey, thanks for a great post! I recced it. And welcome
to DU! :hi: :hi: :hi: :hi: (Even if you've been here two years. Thanks
for getting a star.)

[vssmith]

34. I agree about the intelligence of Bush

Not only does he have an MBA but he learned to fly a jet. I do believe, however, the charge you sometimes hear that he lacks curiosity and is intellectually lazy.

[suziedemocrat]

21. K&R

[htuttle]

22. I'm reminded of an old Leonard Cohen song

"Everybody Knows"

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows
Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that you love me baby
Everybody knows that you really do
Everybody knows that you've been faithful
Ah give or take a night or two
Everybody knows you've been discreet
But there were so many people you just had to meet
Without your clothes
And everybody knows

Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

And everybody knows that it's now or never
Everybody knows that it's me or you
And everybody knows that you live forever
Ah when you've done a line or two
Everybody knows the deal is rotten
Old Black Joe's still pickin' cotton
For your ribbons and bows
And everybody knows

And everybody knows that the Plague is coming
Everybody knows that it's moving fast
Everybody knows that the naked man and woman
Are just a shining artifact of the past
Everybody knows the scene is dead
But there's gonna be a meter on your bed
That will disclose
What everybody knows

And everybody knows that you're in trouble
Everybody knows what you've been through
From the bloody cross on top of Calvary
To the beach of Malibu
Everybody knows it's coming apart
Take one last look at this Sacred Heart
Before it blows
And everybody knows

Everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Oh everybody knows, everybody knows
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows

[Patsy Stone]

29. I love that song

and I even like the Concrete Blonde cover of it. Thanks. :)

[wholetruth00]

23. Great post. The list could be a little longer even.

[Patsy Stone]

25. I can't recommend this enough!

:thumbsup:

[truedelphi]

26. Everybody knows that two towers

cannot collapse within their building's foundational footprint,with both collapses being recorded
at the speed of gravity (give or take a nano second or two)

Everybody knows that you cannot say that all of your intelligence agencies were not aware of this plot that brought down the towers on Sept 10th - no information about it - NADA. And then within thirty-six hours you know every single last detail, including the fact that a conspiracy of nineteen foreign perpetuators planned and committed the outrage. And within the same thirty six hours the names of all the nineteen involved are known - and now are all conveniently dead.

Everybody knows that wherever there is a current day American war, the drug trade might wellbe involved. Columbia, cocaine, Afghanistan, the heroin trade. (Iraq gets a pass on this - it offers us oil not drugs.)

And everybody knows that the sellout of the American airwaves, now owned by just five major players, was one of the largest thefts of all time. Sell off your airwaves to the highes t bidders,and you steal not only that broadband but the freedom that is inherent in a democratic society's existence

[NJCher]

27. war profiteering

What about this one? It's a biggie:

People in the bush administration are making obscene amounts of money from the Iraq war.

One way to reduce the U.S. proclivity to war would be socialize arms manufacture and take the profit out of it.




Cher

p.s. "Everybody Knows" is the perfect theme song for this thread.

[petgoat]

30. "socialize arms manufacture"

I remember reading in the Wall Street Journal back in the
early seventies that when the soviets wanted to build a new fighter
jet, they had more teams with more competing designs than we
had when we wanted to build a fighter jet.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wickerwoman]

31. Could I add:

-a 150-celled blastocyst does not command the same ethical consideration as a human being with Parkinson's or Alzheimer's disease.

-people have an inaliable right to ask others to end their suffering

-people have an inaliable right to travel without being harrassed

-if you want your kid to learn about Jesus, send him to Sunday school. That's what it's there for.

[w4rma]

32. "only way to get corporate and regressive interest groups (evangelicals, NRA) out of politics"

but not progressive interest groups?

I don't think that everybody knows this.

[gulfcoastliberal]

33. Everybody knows about BushLaden:

[EstimatedProphet]

37. Not true

All of these points are simply not true, if you look at them the right way!

1) The Iraq war has been a huge windfall to Halliburton and KBR, and has effectively made the Bush administration untouchable for several years.

2)George Bush actually is quite intelligent, he's just intellectually lazy and used to people thinking for him. That kind of attitude really becomes dangerous when a person becomes surrounded by people with an agenda and knowledge of the situation.

3)National health care would erode the ability of the pharmaceutical industry to develop new drugs, because the premium price for them would be lowered.

4)Publically funded elections would be misused just like elections are now. If a human-developed system has rules, it has the ability to operate outside those rules.

5)US Mideast policy keeps the region destabilized, so that they can't organize their hatred of us.

6)The Republican party understands the dire threat to US interests and is the only party willing to take them seriously.

7)The interests of the few benefit the many. What's good for business is good for America. Benefits trickle down to everyone.

8)The defense budget is what keeps our defenses going, and we can't risk another 9/11.

9)The nuclear arsenal keeps other nations in line, so that they don't dare attack us.

10)The coverage of the national debate is still sound and there are outlets available (public radio, Link and Free Speech TV, etc.) to cover them all.

I want to state that I completely agree with you on just about all the points you made, with the exceptions of #2 and possibly #4. My point is to show how easily these things can be spun - I did it in just a few minutes and I don't even believe what I wrote! Imagine how a Fox-hypnotized repub would refute them. Our problem is not that we don't have the facts on our side, it's that we don't know how to make the truth palatable to people to fight the repub tasty lies.

[civildisoBDence]

38. Thought for sure I'd disagree with something "everybody knows"

but you're spot on, Astrad.

I'd add:

Global warming is occurring and those who deny it aren't skeptics so much as shills and ideologues.

Newsprism

[The Backlash Cometh]

39. Damn, that's good.

[porphyrian]

41. Kick for sanity. - n/t

[smoogatz]

42. Great post--and welcome to DU!

Here's another one: our addiction to fossil fuels severely limits our foreign policy options and is killing the fucking planet. The BEST thing we could do for ourselves right now is launch a space-race-times-ten initiative to develop new, carbon-free energy sources.

[Auggie]

43. One more: Those who profit most from free enterprise do not pay enough taxes.

[dysfunctional press]

46. one more: There is NO god.

nt

[Budmeiser]

47. You forgot one

-Log Cabin Republicans are hypocrites and need to re-evaluate their political affiliation.

[FraDon]

48. The elephant in the room (haiku)

Can we talk about
the elephant in the room?
Problems (NOT symptoms):

The rules of the game!
We all know the game’s a rigged,
un-level play field.

The rich get richer
under capitalism,
and the poor get squat.

Common decency.
Equal opportunity.
Not too much to ask.

[oc2002]

49. - that US is too friendly with Israel, and will never be a unbiased arbitor of peace.

Our relationship with Israel is why 9-11 happened, once you filter out all other factors.

[Lurking Dem]

55. Funny how Osama didn't mention that

in his original explanation.

[LeftishBrit]

50. All of these do indeed sound pretty obvious

[stanwyck]

51. Direct relationship between abortion access

and crime rate. Areas where abortions are more readily accessible have lower crime than areas where abortions are more restricted.
Children deserve to be wanted and loved.
When they are not, bad things happen.

[Land Shark]

52. America's votes are now counted in secrecy, against wishes of 92% of citizens

according to August 2006 Zogby poll. Just can't get that in the media it seems....

[area51]

53. Everyone knows...

that the economy's in the shitter. Just try getting a good paying job, with or w/o bennies, in this economy.

[QuestionAll...]

54. - class warfare is real and in our faces every day. n/t

[RiverStone]

57. The MSM may not give them much air, BUT the GOOD news is..

That in bits and pieces, middle America is starting to "get it", as evidenced by our sweeping victories last week. I find that encouraging! The depressing aspect is it may take several generations to clean up the horrendous mess BushCo has made of things.

Great observations by the way :thumbsup: