NBC News reporting on Hoyer vs. Murtha

[NYYFan]

on now

[NYYFan]

1. Lisa Myers pointed out ABSCAM was 26 years ago

However, it turned it into a "expose" on Murtha. Hoyer was only mentioned within the first 15 seconds of the story.

[MADem]

2. I suspect Hoyer will win, simply because he's gotten around more as WHIP

Pelosi is a true and loyal friend to Murtha--and she's right that his position on the war was very brave and got the ball rolling. He was the point man and took all the heat. But Murtha is also very much to the right on most issues other than the war (and personally, I don't consider his war stance very "lefty"--it's simply INTELLIGENT!).

But my guess is that Hoyer will win with at least a hundred and fifty votes. That could change if some other information breaks, but so far Hoyer seems to have the numbers on his side.

[rinsd]

4. I too thought the experience as WHIP would practically guarantee Hoyer

But the Speaker has spoken and this could be an example of a new party discipline

At least that's how Bob Moran is trying to frame it.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2006/nov/14/rep_jim_moran_claims_128_94_whip_count_in_murthas_favor

[MADem]

6. Now, I take a different view. And I could be wrong. I believe Pelosi acted soley out of loyalty,

and her LETTER pretty much demonstrates that. It isn't an unsolicited letter, it is a letter that specifically states that it is in response to Murtha's request for an endorsement.

That may seem like slight nuance, but in CapitolHillSpeak, it is a significant nuance. She's not asking for any kind of "lockstep" in her missive. It is plain in her wording.

Jim Moran could be correct, but lord love him, he is a loudmouth from Somerville (MA) originally, and his big mouth has gotten him into trouble (and the odd fistfight) in the past. And as the article points out, the ballot is secret, so people can look him straight in the eye and lie like hell, blame the new kids in the delegation, and there is no way to ever know.

[rinsd]

11. Thank you for your insights

I knew about the loyalty angle(Murtha was big in her ascension to her current leadership role) but the Moran statements caught my attention for the seeming line drawn in the sand.

"Jim Moran could be correct, but lord love him, he is a loudmouth from Somerville (MA) originally, and his big mouth has gotten him into trouble (and the odd fistfight) in the past. And as the article points out, the ballot is secret, so people can look him straight in the eye and lie like hell, blame the new kids in the delegation, and there is no way to ever know."

Excellent point.

[MADem]

16. I do like Jim. He was my (faux) rep for awhile.

I could never vote for him, because even though I lived in his district, I was military and never changed my home of record and have kept it to this very day. But I also know him. He's fond of hyperbole, he's emotional at times, he's not a quiet fellah by any stretch. So, basically, what Jim says and what Jim means, especially on an issue like this, could be acres apart. On the issues, OTOH, Jim is a straight arrow. When it comes to policy, what he says, he means, pretty much.

Here's what will make the difference--the support for Hoyer--how firm it is, and the delegations that have publicly pledged to back him--it's a pretty broad base, and it has to do with how he managed all their desires and needs when he was the whip. See my post elsewhere in this thread where the different caucuses supposedly supporting Steny are listed.

I still have a few pals up on the Hill, and they're telling me Steny still has it. By a comfortable margin.

That said, NONE of us know, really...that secret ballot is indeed a secret!!!

[flobee1]

3. I'm not buying the"bickering dems" hype

That every news source seems to be parroting. Its a month and a half away! The Dems just want to put the right person in the right position. Its not a contest and theres no fighting, just trying to utilize the resources in the best way possible. The media has turned it into an episode of Survivor!

[MADem]

7. Neither am I. This little vote is up to the representatives in the Democratic delegation, not

the goddamned media, and not the public. This is the choice of the legislators as to who they want to be the guy barking orders and herding cats. It's a referendum on nothing more than how they choose to organize themselves. And it is every bit as much about organizational skills, people skills, and management techniques as it is any "direction" that the caucus will go in. Sure, the leader has weight, but so do the big cheeses who are massive money earners for the DNC--so do the heads of key committees....and so does any rep with a bigass chunk of seniority. It's how the system works.

The REAL lead dog here is Nancy, make no mistake. The Leader just takes a good chunk of the day-to-day strain for her to free her up to accomplish her responsibilities to the ENTIRE body, including those bastards on the other side of the aisle.

[creeksneakers2]

5. The right wing media is all over Murtha

It sounded to me that they were backing Steny Hoyer just like they backed Lieberman. I think the Murtha smears are coming from the vast right wing conspiracy.

[MADem]

8. Truth to tell, Hoyer has always been the heir apparent. Murtha only expressed an interest in the

job back in June when he wrote a little memo to all on the subject saying he wanted to be considered.

The Whip generally moves up when the minority leader becomes Speaker. It's MURTHA, actually, who is breaking protocol on this issue.

To be fair.

[Rainscents]

10. I know for fact... VETS favorite Murtha!

This is the main reason why Pelosi picked Murtha. This is my guess as I been doing some brainstorming. Yes, Murtha and Pelosi is friends, however, I don't believe it was factor of the decision.

[MADem]

13. No, it isn't. Not at all. That is NOT the reason. NOT a FACT at all.

The reason is that she and Jack Murtha have been genuine allies and friends for over twenty years. Vets have NOTHING to do with it. Their connection is DEEP, and predates GULF ONE. They've worked together CLOSELY over the years, on legislation and organizational matters, even though he is from the RIGHT wing of the party, and she from the far LEFT.

She also acknowledges that his stance on the war, as point man, enabled everyone else to have a touchstone to argue from. He led the charge, and she feels she owes him in that respect. Also, Jack Murtha had her back when she was vying for the MINORITY LEADER job. Her opponent? The guy she beat out for the post? Steny Hoyer. When Nancy won, Steny faded back to the WHIP job.

Lastly, Murtha was the one who stuck HIS beak in regarding the position. The Majority job usually goes straight to the WHIP--he is generally the heir apparent, absent a scandal. Steny had worked hard in the whip role, and he WAS in line for the majority job. But when it started to look like the Dems just might win, Murtha wrote a letter (only last June) saying if the Dems won the House, he wanted to be considered for the MAJORITY job. That is OUTSIDE the normal protocol--you usually don't try to horn in on the perogative of the Whip.

When Nancy endorsed him, she was very careful to note in her letter that it was written in RESPONSE to his specific request for an endorsement. You can ignore that nuance, but it is significant. It gives voting readers of the missive an excuse to IGNORE the endorsement.

It's been covered, it's not a secret, all this history. It's Google-able.

I don't agree with the final assessment in the below cited commentary--if Hoyer wins, so fucking what? If Murtha wins, she'll feel more at ease for the first few days, but that is about it. After a time, they'll all settle in even if Hoyer is the pick (after all, she's been the minority leader to his whip all this time, and no blood has been spilled), and she'll still have a huge workload no matter who gets it:

...But there's a major potential hitch. The House leadership votes that take place this Thursday on the Hill are conducted in secret. Members can tell Murtha or current Minority Whip and would-be Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland that they are on either man's team. Then they can go and vote secretly however they choose. Hoyer has already locked up the support of the Blue Dog (or socially and economically conservative) Democrats, the Congressional Black Caucus, and the Hispanic Caucus.

Hill scuttlebutt holds that on a personal basis Pelosi is much closer to Murtha, although her relationship with centrist Democrat Hoyer dates back several decades to their tenures as congressional pages.

However, if Hoyer pulls off a victory, as some predict he may do Thursday, Pelosi begins her historic speakership mopping up an awfully messy faux pas. Then again, wasn't she the one who said last week that it takes a woman to clean House? http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/erbeblog/archive/061113/pelosi_lays_out_her_cards_with.htm

I honestly think Hoyer has it sewn up. It doesn't really matter to me one way or the other, as how the Democratic caucuses choose to organize themselves to prosecute the will of the people is NOT high on my priority list. I'm more worried about their actual AGENDA to secure legislation that will actually benefit the American people, myself....

[sandnsea]

9. Hoyer=DLC=Hillary

Murtha=anti-Iraq=trouble for Hillary

It's pretty simple. Any time the Clintons want stuff in the media, it gets there. They're desperately trying to get all their people in place so that the policy in the House matches the policy she wants to run on. That's why they attacked Dean recently, and Kerry earlier. That's Clinton politics.

[wholetruth00]

12. Hoyer is the neocon water boy. He'll win because the agenda backs him.

simple as that.

[MADem]

15. Oh, really? NO, it is NOT that simple, and you should research before you spout.

If this is a "NEOCON" record, why, I would think we'd do well with MORE of them in the Congress. But it ISN'T a NEOCON record at all. Why you'd falsely claim that, I cannot fathom. You make stuff up, and the facts don't support your assertions at ALL.

Rated 100% by NARAL, indicating a pro-choice voting record. He's good to go on ebryonic stem cell research.

Decent civil rights record: Voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. No on "protecting" Pledge, no on banning flag burning, NO on banning same sex adoption in DC...Rated 87% by the ACLU, indicating a pro-civil rights voting record.

Voted NO on subjecting federal employees to random drug tests...no on PROHIBITING needle exchange and med MJ in DC, no on military "drug" border patrols.

Rated 100% by the NEA, indicating pro-public education votes.

Voted FOR Kyoto; voted against most of the crap energy legislation Bush-Cheney threw against the wall.

Voted for more AMTRAK funding, against Yucca Mountain...rated 85% by the LCV, indicating pro-environment votes.

Voted FOR Amber Alert...but the Xtian Coalition hates him, seeing him as "anti-family" and gave him a fifteen percent. I consider that a badge of honor, actually.

Rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record.

Rated 100% by APHA, indicating a pro-public health record.

Rated 100% by SANE, indicating a pro-peace voting record.

Rated 87% by the AFL-CIO, indicating a pro-union voting record.

There's WAY more here, if you can handle the truth: http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Steny_Hoyer.htm

Edited to add this graphic for the verbally-challenged:



Steny Hoyer is a Populist-Leaning Liberal.

[upi402]

14. Murtha would have street cred to lead Joe 6packs out of war

because he's ex-military. BUT! The rightist media propaganda will do more damage than he could do good. He's a good man and this is the price we pay for the Telecommunications Act and all the other DINO doody we now havta put in a baggie.