Murtha or Hoyer?

[Clarkie1]

Who would YOU choose for majority leader if these were your only two choices?

[Ignacio Upton]

1. Neither!

See my thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2720118&mesg_id=2720118

[Hippo_Tron]

2. Neither, but since I have to pick Murtha over Hoyer

As I said on the other thread, Murtha will do whatever Pelosi tells him. Hoyer will use his leadership post to challenge Pelosi when the right moment comes.

[lvx35]

3. Murtha was a strong voice against the war.

That's the biggest issue right now, and his victory is symbolically important.

[MADem]

4. Check their records. You want a lefty, pick Hoyer. But it ain't UP to us.

This is a secret ballot by the legislators. They can all LIE about how they voted. We have NO weight in this contest.

But for those who think they know their lefties from their righties, here's your wake-up call:

HOYER: http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Steny_Hoyer.htm


Steny Hoyer is a Populist-Leaning Liberal.


MURTHA: http://www.ontheissues.org/PA/John_Murtha.htm



John Murtha is a Moderate Populist.

Don't get conned by the labels and what people SAY the legislators are like. Check their VOTING RECORDS.

[Alexander]

7. Hoyer was the lead House sponsor of HAVA.

"Help America Vote Act" - which brought such companies as DIEBOLD, ES&S, Hart InterCivic and Sequoia to a polling place near you.

[MADem]

10. That's one issue. Check the link I provided. NT

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. Cynthia McKinney sponsored that bill too

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d107:HR03295:@@@P

[cyclezealot]

12. It does not matter who is more liberal/populist.

Murtha as Maj. Leader will not make policy, the Democratic Caucus will. With all the Progressives, that will be just fine. Murtha will be a good bo-between to unify the caucus. I think Pelosi knows what she is doing. Let's stay together. Maybe his being a leader of the party will force him to become more liberal.

[MADem]

14. I wouldn't give Murtha the shepherd's crook yet. I think Hoyer will take it.

He's said to be the front runner. We'll see.

It's a secret ballot, so no one will know how anyone really voted, just the total.

[Leopolds Ghost]

18. MADem, what this says to me is Murtha is just as leftist as Hoyer.

Cultural issues are a tool to divide the right. We need populists.

I can't stand how DLC powerbrokers (whose -only- distingushing characteristic is their position on social issues) have embraced the mantle of liberalism and told populists they are an undesirable tendency.

Republicans created this meme that liberals are elitists -- liberal on social issues, me-too on economic issues. No one but the populists are taking hard stands on the issues that matter at the federal level.

[MADem]

19. Well, Murtha is against choice, while Steny isn't. That's probably what shoved him to the right of

Steny on the little matrix. Steny has a 100% NARAL rating.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. I Want The Government Out Of My Personal Life And Can Never Support A Candidate Who Does

eom

[Alexander]

5. They're both jerks, but Murtha is Pelosi's jerk.

At least, I think and hope so. Neither of them are appealing choices. I liked one poster's comment about David Obey - I think he'd be a good third choice.

Who knows, though? Murtha could fuck things up, and in a year we could all be wishing Steny Hoyer won instead.

[Hippo_Tron]

9. Obey's set to become appropriations committee chair

I wouldn't give that up to jump into a leadership battle, personally.

[cyclezealot]

13. Steny Hoyer has a lousy record on trade Issues?

No. That is almost number one on my priority of issues?

[MADem]

20. Here's how he breaks out on trade

Voted NO on implementing CAFTA, Central America Free Trade. (Jul 2005)
Voted YES on implementing US-Australia Free Trade Agreement. (Jul 2004)
Voted YES on implementing US-Singapore free trade agreement. (Jul 2003)
Voted YES on implementing free trade agreement with Chile. (Jul 2003)
Voted NO on withdrawing from the WTO. (Jun 2000)
Voted NO on 'Fast Track' authority for trade agreements. (Sep 1998)
Rated 22% by CATO, indicating a pro-fair trade voting record. (Dec 2002)

[cyclezealot]

22. not as bad as I feared.

Not happy about that vote for US Singapore free trade deal. Curious as to link.
Cato. Just google Cato?

[MADem]

25. The stats came from ON THE ISSUES...you can get a

breakdown of every politician at that site; where they stand, how they voted. Check other posts by me in this thread, I've put the link to Murtha's stats, Hoyer's and Pelosi's in them.

[cyclezealot]

27. what a web site. made a favorite of it

thanks. Did their FAQ search. My question is who are they and how do they do their research. Everyone's methods need scrutiny. Positions Seems neutral at face value. WOnder who funds them.

[MADem]

28. It runs on donations, much of it==and advertising

OnTheIssues.org 1770 Massachusetts Ave. #630, Cambridge MA 02140 They say they are nonpartisan and non-profit.

http://www.ontheissues.org/about.htm

They list their staff and don't keep their affiliations secret, either:


OnTheIssues.org Staff
Dr. Naomi Lichtenberg, President & CEO
MA Columbia University, PhD Indiana University
Jesse Gordon, content manager & technical manager
MPP Harvard University
Cathy D. Wanzo, content editor, Senate races
MPA Harvard University
Dr. Catherine A. Womack, content editor, Vice Presidential races
MA, Univ. of S.C.; PhD, MIT
Paul Hrabal, VoteMatch manager
Proprietor of GoVote.com
Jan Innes, graphic designer
Matthew Handlemam & Vlad Koval, technical staff
Volunteer Staff
Jeff Rushing, GOP candidates
Alan K. Jansen, Libertarian Party candidates
Dr. Travis Kidd, Constitution Party candidates
Paul Wilson, Natural Law Party candidates
Tony Santini, Green Party candidates
Rob Jones, Technical coding
Ram Lau, debate and convention coverage
Georgia Tech
Bill Cooke, political books
BA Boston University, currently at U. Wisconsin-Madison




Many viewers ask about our political stances.
You can view some of our staff's responses to the VoteMatch quiz
by signing in with the IDs below
(the Sign-In page is http://govote.com/login.asp ) ....

[dailykoff]

6. Murtha. The issue here is genocide and who will stop it.

Murtha that has spoken out strongly against the war and that's what matters.

[oldgrowth]

8. Neither! butt

[Raine]

11. Neither or either

one cause I don't care for either of them so whichever is picked...I ain't happy.x(

[B Calm]

15. Hoyer is George Bush choice!!!

He invited him to lunch!

[MADem]

21. Uh, Nancy was there too. Is she his choice as well???

It's pro forma for the President to ask the leadership of the winning party to break bread after an election. Nancy is still minority leader and Steny is the whip. They represented the Democrats at the White House.

[deacon]

16. Bush's worst nightmare-- Murtha n/t

[sakabatou]

17. Someone else.

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. Murtha. n/t

[Jack Rabbit]

26. I have problems with both

No vote.

[lonestarnot]

29. Murtha! Murtha! Murtha! No more "crap!"

[deacon]

31. I like the guy that can say no to a bribe - Murtha n/t