Way to go Lou Dobbs! You have to read today's commentary, I don't have a single issue with his views

[Nimrod2005]

Dobbs: I'm a populist and proud of it

NEW YORK (CNN) -- The Democratic victory last week has our political elites in both parties and in the national media squealing like stuck pigs. Way to go, America, we may be on the way.

Yes, I'm an ardent and fervent believer in the first three words of that radical populist document, which begins with the words "We the People."

snip

What we all need to be about now is honesty and forthrightness. And the truth is, our political, business and media elites have abandoned the cornerstone of this great nation: equality of rights, equality of economic opportunity and equality of educational opportunity.

snip

I have never blamed the poor of Mexico, China or India for corporate America's avarice and our political elites' cowardice. I blame us for forgetting that the United States is first a nation, and secondly a marketplace or an economy, and I blame us for being taken as fools by both political parties for far too long. It is not nationalism by any stretch of the imagination for me to remind those in power that our political system, our great democracy, makes possible our free-enterprise economy, and not vice versa as the elites continually propagandize.

snip

I admit to being, among many other things, a proponent of populism. But I do believe my critics should look up the definition before they sling the word at me like a filthy epithet. On second thought, it may be to them, because a populist is, after all, nothing more than "a supporter of the rights and the power of the people." In fact, I'm a damn proud populist.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/11/14/Dobbs.Nov15/index.html

[ComerPerro]

1. I have a bridge you might be interested in buying

[napi21]

3. Lou has been promoting thisphylosophy for a long time.

I happen to agree with him too!

Somehow, we need to get ALL the people to recognize that if they don't participate in the voting process. That's the only way the populistideas are going to fourish. In this last election it appears a lot more people voted that normaly do in a mid term, but that'sjust a start! It needs to be a lot more than 60% in 08!

[ComerPerro]

6. He is not, nor was he ever, a populist

[Nimrod2005]

8. Right, therefore he deserves credit for seeing it this way now....

[ComerPerro]

9. He is pandering, selling himself. And you are buying it

[Nimrod2005]

10. I don't think so....He is saying us the people should look out for ourselves

And the country would be just fine....

There is nothing wrong with this POV. Whether a voter is registered as a puke or as a dem or whatever, if they vote for their own interest, the country would be just fine...That's about exactly what happened on November 7th.

[ComerPerro]

11. And notice he is still quick to remind us that Dems are just as bad as Repukes

hmm, how interesting...


That's a common RW tactic, by the way.

[oc2002]

15. no, the RW tactic is to paint the Dems as crazy loons that want to convert everyone to gays.

And such.

[ComerPerro]

17. Think of it as poisoning the well

Dobbs knows that the Republicans are really fucking people over. But he doesn't want to trash Republicans, since he is a Republican conservative himself.

So what does he do?

Same thing Republicans have always done.

Rather than blame the conservatives and Republicans who are at fault, they blame intangibles, like "politics", "politicians", "Washington", and "both sides" or "both parties".

They figure that their actions are indefensible, so rather than take the blame they deserve, they just try to spin until the public thinks that all politicans are evil and corrupt, not just Repigs.


Dobbs is a master at that

[gaja]

63. He was criticizing the Gov for the all kinds of stuff

border,creating the North American Union and destroying USA,(NAFTA Highways), Voting machines etc.

If politicians were not corrupt, compromised or lobbied to death they might have have pointed out the criminal acts committed by others.

Stolen elections 00, 04 anyone?


People want impeachement, People want out of Iraq, so what? Who cares?

[OnionPatch]

52. I've actually heard that more often

coming from liberals. :shrug:

I don't think that statement is an accurate indicator of one's political persuasion.

[napi21]

49. Yes, to a degree I am. No matter what Lou really believes inside

his own mind, what he ways on air does matter. When he keeps saying "what in the world are they thinking?" every day when he gets a report of some other stupid think our lawmakers have done,even if only half of his listeners believe it, that's a big help to changingthe mind of American kool aid drinkers. If it makes just a few stop and think that they're being had, that's a good thing.

[Joe Chi Minh]

36. I'm not letting sleeping dogs lie. Wake up to yourself, man!

Nobody buys a bridge from somebody who's clearly been sold a pup. (ComerPerro, indeed! What's that the beginning of "dog eat dog?")

The curse of working people has not been right-wingers who've taken a sudden left turn, but the endless procession of left-wingers who've taken a sharp right, once they've got their feet off the bottom rungs of the ladder.

[Nimrod2005]

45. VERY well said!!! Bravo.....

[Greyhound]

55. What Nimrod2005 said. Hear, hear! n/t

[stepnw1f]

60. Hey... WTF Does "Liberal" anything Have to do with What ComerPerro Said?

Sounds like another cheap shot to me... Want to tell me? I'm a Liberal and I'd like to know. BTW - I happen to appreciate Lou's article!

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[90-percent]

2. Lou

I disagree with some of what he says, but I think he's a good journalist and does invite people from all sides to discuss issues. He's had some of our favorite lefties on his show, frequently. Plus he has a crush on Randi Rhodes, who I don't get to hear that much because I don't have satellite radio.

-85% Jimmy

[sam sarrha]

4. wait till the trolls start biting at your ankles.... you will be sorry to agree with Dobbs

[ComerPerro]

7. yeah, I'm a troll because I refuse to kiss conservative ass

what's next? A thread praising Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell for being good Christians?

[trumad]

18. Count me in as a troll too

Dobbs is no better than matthews or Timmy...

They have all mastered the finger in the air wind vane.

[Armstead]

5. I have problems with Dobbs, but this is an excellent summation

"I blame us for forgetting that the United States is first a nation, and secondly a marketplace or an economy, and I blame us for being taken as fools by both political parties for far too long. "

Exactly.

[NNN0LHI]

12. Lou Dobbs the radical populist was all for invading and occupying Iraq

Back when he thought it was going to be a cake walk that is. And after the Iraqis wouldn't cooperate with Bush he began calling them Islamofascists. He was nearly orgasmic on Mission Accomplished day as I recollect. Some of his favorite guests have been Daniel Pipes, Judith Miller, and Ann Coulter.

Doesn't sound like too many of the populists I know.

Don

[ComerPerro]

21. At best, he is a poser and a scam artist

[jpwhite]

13. I like this statement

I may not agree with everything Lou Dobbs has said in the past, but I agree with this. We as Americans need to get out and vote. I think that there are people on both sides of the aisle that think that sometimes forget that people in the senate and HOR work for the people. Sometimes they spend our money like it's their money.

I also agree with his stands on outsourcing. Too many companies have done this and it has hurt thousands of Americans. I hope the new congress does something about it.

I think we have bigger fish to fry than Lou Dobbs. Why there is so much hate being sent his way is beyond me.

James
[e-mail]

[oc2002]

14. Go Lou! GO! I love this guy.

I wish we had an army of Lou's in the media.(and Olberman)

[William Bloode]

16. I like Dobbs.

I don't agree with him on everything, but i don't agree with a lot of people here or in the Dem party. We all have differences, i just like some one who is at least half honest.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Lou Dobbs, a populist.

:rofl:

[MoonRiver]

20. It's not a popular position here, but I like Lou.

He's over the top about immigration, but he's stood up for our rights when others in the MSM were just allowing the * train wreck to move on down the line. He's against NAFTA, CAFTA and globalization. And very importantly he has been instrumental in exposing e-voting fraud.

[alfredo]

27. I agree. Some things he says grate at me, but on the whole I

like what he says. I didn't like everything Clinton did and said as president, but I liked him and his policies more than I disliked them.

[GymGeekAus]

22. Lou Dobbs, A Confused Fool.

"A supporter of the rights and the power of the people."

That's a nice opening line, sure. But what does it mean? Please keep in mind that in our system of government, ALL GOVERNMENTAL POWER arises from the people.

Did Dobbs just say he supported full democracy? Nope. Did he just say that he supports populist reform? Nope. Did he say that the rights of the individual are superior to the rights of the rich? Nope.

What did he say?

Well, he basically said "I like the status quo."

That's conservatism. Not populism.

Do not trust the media when they use this word, people. The media interprets its job as telling the people what they should know and believe. In other words, unless the media is run by the people, it turns into a tool used against their interests.

Dobbs is not a populist. He's a conservative who doesn't know what he really believes or why.

He's a confused fool. That's all.

[ComerPerro]

24. you are a lot more gracious to him that I am

you are at least nice enough to give him the benifit of the doubt and say he is a confused fool.

LOL.

I say he is a deliberate liar.

[GymGeekAus]

25. Well, that's my liberal bias.

But I've watched his show. I've heard him speak. And I've discussed his positions.

I think most conservatives are unexamined, selfish fools. The root of their political philosophy, "tax someone else," is something they can't express or defend.

I'd prefer to believe him confused before I tag him as evil.

[ComerPerro]

26. his show reminds me a lot of the 700 club, actually

he obviously anchros with his own bias, and isn't shy about including his bias. But then he goes to "reporters" that also share his bais.

[GymGeekAus]

28. An unfair assertion, IMHO.

You can't cite the 700 club as an analogy and ignore the religious implications, at least if you're trying to be fair.

[ComerPerro]

40. I was talking about the bias in the reporting for a show that pretends to be news

[Nimrod2005]

46. Oh please....

[SoCalDem]

23. Lou always says stuff like this when he's got a new book to sell

:)

[ComerPerro]

41. hes a whore, and I can't believe people buy into his bullshit

[w4rma]

29. I read his definition of a Lou Dobbs Democrat. I am a Lou Dobbs Democrat. (nt)

[Nimrod2005]

35. Bingo and that's my point...If more people think this way and vote this way

We will always own our country - we control our destiny.

Some on here seem to NOT be able to look beyond the person's voter card!!!

[w4rma]

38. I agree. (nt)

[genie_weenie]

30. Populism is a bunch of hooey.

Those who wish to grab control of the appartus of Government often use the appeal to the people, populism. Once ensconed into Government they then use the Wealthy, the Government itself and propaganda to maintain power.

[GymGeekAus]

31. So all populist coups fall to aristocracies?

What's the point then?

Might as well just close your doors and windows and disappear from the world.

Sorry, I'm not buying. A vigilant citizenry could prevent such disaster. I don't think a self-defeating one can, though.

[genie_weenie]

34. I'd just like an example where Polybius was proved incorrect.

For no sooner had the knowledge of the jealousy and hatred existing in the citizens against them emboldened some one to oppose the government by word or deed, than he was sure to find the whole people ready and prepared to take his side.

Having then got rid of these rulers by assassination or exile, they do not venture to set up a king again, being still in terror of the injustice to which this led before; nor dare they entrust the common interests again to more than one, considering the recent example of their misconduct: and therefore, as the only sound hope left them is that which depends on themselves, they are driven to take refuge in that; and so changed the constitution from an oligarchy to a democracy, and took upon themselves the superintendence and charge of the state.

And as long as any survive who have had experience of oligarchical supremacy and domination, they regard their present constitution as a blessing, and hold equality and freedom as of the utmost value

But as soon as a new generation has arisen, and the democracy has descended to their children's children, long association weakens their value for equality and freedom, and some seek to become more powerful than the ordinary citizens; and the most liable to this temptation are the rich.

[GymGeekAus]

47. Just how "incorrect" do you want it proven?

Or can we skip the semantic wordgames and just point out that the defeatists have their own share of blame here? Can't shackle the rich with all the blame, after all. Eternal vigilance and all that being a well-known requirement of our Republic, and hardly the strong suit of those who expect to fail.

Our own government, as flawed as it is, has survived more than three generations since its own Revolution. And expanded the definitions of equality and freedom in the process. Does this disprove Polybius adequately for you? Well, once you establish the goal posts, we can look for an example. Or more likely, talk about the ludicrousness of the standard.

And even with the corruption present here in the US, our system of government is still not irredeemable--and still not defined by a person. Revolution isn't the only way to bring about reform. Jealousy and hatred are not the only impetus for that reform, either. One hopes that we can be led by our better natures occasionally. Perhaps it is too much to ask?

Defeatism is a pathetic personal philosophy to pursue, IMHO. One wonders why one would be evangelical about it, too.

[genie_weenie]

56. I would contend that the systems of control

which were blunt and unrefined (religion, education, economics) during the decline of the Roman Republic have been honed enough to keep most people content with their station in life.

And no your comment that "Our own government, as flawed as it is, has survived more than three generations since its own Revolution" does not disprove Polybius. Three Generations after the Revolution we had a Civil War in America, 1 million dead. And it took another 60 to 100 years, even after that, to expand the definitons of freedom and equality. Women's Sufferage of 1920 and the Civil Rights Movement the 60's. And I can contend Marriage rights are not equal in America today.

Most politicians who go for Government either end up corrupting themselves and their principles in the pursuit of reform because they are beholden to being re-elected. Otherwise how would they accomplish the grand reforms, changes or maintain the culture of America?

And think about today. How much influence has the Bush Dynasty had on the makeup of Government, NSA wiretapping, 2 Supreme Court Justices, 12 years as President, 4 as Vice Presidetn, Governors of Texas and Florida, Head of the CIA...

And while you might write I pursue a pathetic personal philsophy of defeatism, I would counter I am merely being realistic.

[GymGeekAus]

59. More mutual masturbation.... Always fun.

Ambition is not the defining feature of happiness, you know.

And our government has survived. Please check on those issues--you'll find that the government ends up on the side that promoted and advanced those equalities and rights. The US was on the correct moral side of that slavery issue, remember. Did you count the generations of our country yet?

As for marriage rights, I dare say we will prevail. Nothing about your post required that we attain utopia instantaneously.

If you are going to post statements as fact, such as "Most politicians ... end up corrupting themselves," you should really source something. Otherwise, it's an opinion. And I can counter it by simply saying "I disagree." Perhaps you are simply missing the point of the American experiment in general--that the whole idea of pluralism is catching on, that we are getting better and better at dealing with people who are different from ourselves, not worse.

How much influence would the Bush Dynasty have on the makeup of government if we simply had not pushed for "electoral progressivism" and not turned our ballot boxes into electronic number counters that could be easily hacked? Whoops, there. Bad call on that one, huh?

And yes, it is always the premise of the defeatist that they possess a greater understanding of the nature of reality than the optimist or even the pragmatist. See my comments above on opinions. And then consider what defeatists have actually managed to contribute to the process.

Reality disagrees with your political philosophy.

[genie_weenie]

61. You say defeatist I say Defeat this.

Let's call the whole thing off...

Seriously, good post and discussion. :hi:

[w4rma]

32. Elitism is a bunch of hooey. (Elitism is the antithesis of populism.) (nt)

[genie_weenie]

33. Elitism is the opposite of populism?

Why? Just because Encyclopedia Britannica says so?

[goodhue]

37. His faux populism smells of jingoism to me

[w4rma]

39. Are you a mind reader? How do you know it is fake? It certainly sounds sincere to me.

All of his ducks are in a row and his logic is right on the mark. He has obviously put a lot of thought into this.

[ComerPerro]

42. Its fake becasue he never actually does anything to help people

you know, like a real populist would. He just uses people to get ratings and sell books.

If you wanna buy into that, fine. But please advocate conservatism somewhere other than DU.

[w4rma]

43. Those ratings = viewers. With his viewers' support, he has helped expose a good deal of corruption

that has been going on in Washington. That helps people in a big way.

[Nimrod2005]

44. He never does anyting? how about this commentary? his rants on his shows?

The issues he debates with his guests...etc. That's activism IMO.

[Greyhound]

54. He single handedly forced the decimation of the tech workers into the

public forum. Go back and review how many of the media outlets were discussing this issue when it was being done to us. This is a trick question because there was no coverage at all, not until Lou made it an issue and wouldn't let it be ignored.

It is true that nothing has been done to alleviate the situation, but that is not for a lack of effort on his part.

[goodhue]

50. Nightly Nativism

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060828/eviatar

Nightly Nativism

by DAPHNE EVIATAR

The Nation


* * *

Dobbs's hysteria and jingoism are now notorious. He's been ridiculed by Jon Stewart on The Daily Show for calling for the abolition of "ethnocentric" holidays that involve waving other nations' flags (thus eliminating St. Patrick's Day); by Andy Borowitz, who wrote in Newsweek that President Bush had decided to move Dobbs to the Mexican border instead of 6,000 National Guard troops; and by the hosts of a Los Angeles radio show, who recently offered a cash prize to the first illegal immigrant mother to name her baby Lou Dobbs.

If the anchor's antics make for good comedy, they also have a sinister side: Many Americans take him seriously. "Outside of elected officials he's undoubtedly the most influential spokesman for the anti-immigration movement," says Wayne Cornelius, a political science professor and director of the Center for Comparative Immigration Studies at the University of California, San Diego. "I think he's actually putting real pressure on elected officials by riling up a significant portion of their base."

As if to underscore that influence, Dobbs conducts a poll that works something like a viewer comprehension test. During one "Broken Borders" segment in May, for example, Dobbs reported on the Senate's immigration reform bill, part of what Dobbs later called "the absolute abdication of responsibility by this government to provide for the safety of the American people." He then reported on a rally in Washington of "illegal aliens and their supporters again trying to pressure Congress into granting amnesty to millions of illegal aliens in this country." That led into the evening's poll question: "Do you believe US senators and representatives are more concerned with meeting the demands of illegal aliens marching in the streets than they are with their constituents?" The results? Surprise! 96 percent of viewers said yes. (As reported on the show, Dobbs's viewers generally back him up in his polls between 95 and 99 percent of the time.)

Slightly more scientific polls are almost as conclusive. A recent CNN survey revealed that more people trust Dobbs than the President on the issue of illegal immigration. As Jack in California wrote, in one of the many adulatory letters Dobbs reads during every broadcast, "Lou Dobbs for President. Impeach Vicente Fox!"

* * *

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060828/eviatar

[Greyhound]

48. And the irrational drums of blind hatred (or worse, cynical manipulation to further an agenda)

continues abated.

In case you missed it the first time,

I have never blamed the poor of Mexico, China or India for corporate America's avarice and our political elites' cowardice. I blame us for forgetting that the United States is first a nation, and secondly a marketplace or an economy, and I blame us for being taken as fools by both political parties for far too long. It is not nationalism by any stretch of the imagination for me to remind those in power that our political system, our great democracy, makes possible our free-enterprise economy, and not vice versa as the elites continually propagandize.

What we all need to be about now is honesty and forthrightness. And the truth is, our political, business and media elites have abandoned the cornerstone of this great nation: equality of rights, equality of economic opportunity and equality of educational opportunity.

"No wonder the orthodoxies on the left and the right are convulsing."

So what is so wrong with what he says?

ETA: :kick: & R #10

[goodhue]

51. We The People

Are immigrants not people?

[William769]

53. Lou Dobbs, he's my man if he can't do it nobody can!

[Stephist]

57. Life Long Republican...

gets his fact from the Conservative Citizens Council...what's not to love?:eyes:

[ComerPerro]

65. no kidding, he is just such a wonderful human being.

Now excuse me while I


:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:


at all the supposed liberals who pathetically worship Dobbs.

After all, he must be a populist. He said so himself!

[nonconformist]

58. As an outspoken populist myself, I like Lou a LOT.

Labor issues are one of my top priorities. I don't always agree with every single word that comes out of his mouth, but damn, find me one person on Earth that I do. I agree with a great deal of what he says, and like it or not, HE is the one that has brought the issues of exporting jobs and the decimation of the middle class to the mainstream discussion.

[Kelly Rupert]

62. I'm a populist!

You know, in that tax-cutting, Iraq-invading, foreigner-hating way.