Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

You Decide, Full Videotape of Murtha in Abscam... LINK

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:30 PM
Original message
You Decide, Full Videotape of Murtha in Abscam... LINK
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=10427

I have got to admit that the full video, especially from 15:23 - 21:50 minute marks, is quite startling. However, he did say he did not want any money more than once. The entrapment scenario was quite brazen, but so was the acceptance of money by the other congressmen.

The history of the Abscam Scandal is 26 years old, and Murtha was never convicted of anything arising out of this sting - though other congressmen went to jail.

******You decide, Is Murtha's record of Congressional service since Abscam sufficient to wipe any 'tarnishment' that his unwitting involvement in the Abscam sting might have applied to his record?********

I understand that the only Murtha tape publicly exposed at the time was a 13 second clip. This tape runs for almost an hour.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. My Congressman Whose Name Now Escapes Me Literally Stuffed The 50 Gs In His Clothing...
Edited on Wed Nov-15-06 03:32 PM by DemocratSinceBirth
Bill McCollum won the seat in its aftermath...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. bitching about real estate prices , thats pretty funny.
i'm only about 5 minutes in to this thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Jack Murtha knows how to play the game...
he is a conservative hawk and is no liberal and I think I can safely say he is a better friend to the defense industry than anyone else.

He wins in his district because he knows how to bring home the bacon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. He's Old School For Sure
...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bleedingheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. If you listen to this...you find that Murtha is trying to bring jobs to
his district....(that is after the real estate jibber jabber)...

and then he basically says he doesn't think they will have a problem getting "Abdul" into the country..

He basically says he would be "delighted" to get someone into the US that will invest in his district.

He wants details about the family.(the fake Arabic family that supposedly robbed his country's treasury...) that these FBI agents are trying to get into the US.....etc.

He basically states that he wants to bring money into his district to create jobs..

He wants more information to let them know if "Abdul" can be let into the country...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. reflecting back on watching, I agree with you .... jobs does seem to be issue
I think the mention about depositing money into banks in the district throws most people off if they only watch a short clip, but he seems to be saying he wants to help where people will benefit his district constituents --and he does say 'you don't have to pay anything'(to get this done), so where is the quid pro quo in that?

I would imagine people who do not watch the video will outraged, and people who only watch cherry-picked clips that are sure to ooze out of FReeperville, will be outraged also. But the whole tape gives a pretty good idea of the type of pressure being brought to bear on him by undercover FBI agents in an entrapment based scenario.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. I watched the entire thing, and Murtha only seemed interested
in creating jobs for the people in his district. That's what politicians do.

I may be naive, but that's the way I see it.












Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
symbolman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. But We Don't have the pleasure of reading Your Profile
Yet You Want To "expose" Murtha, a man who I as a Veteran respect deeply..

Kind of a conflict here to me... :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I as a vet respect him as well
and I do have a profile. BUT, I think it's proper to ask these questions of a guy who is about to be handed the keys of the Government.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. What does my 'profile' have to do with anything? Read my 1000 posts...
... I am not 'exposing' Murtha, I am merely pointing to the fact that a previously unviewable videotape has now been made public on the net. I got the link from a TalkingPointsMemo.com story. I went to the source and watched the video. I wondered what the reactions would be from other DUers as Murtha is running for Majority Leader against Hoyer.

What is disloyal about that? Would you feel better if no one told you the videotape existed?

I can assure you a Republican flak would not have pointed out that Murtha refused money more than once, and that the Abscam sting was entrapment based.

Should we only post the positive things, and none of the negative things, being said about our Democratic leaders? IF that is the case, we will not be ready to debate the issues on an informed basis. And just because negative things are said about our Democratic leaders does not make them true(Coulter, Limbaugh, etc.), but it helps to craft an effective response if we are familiar with what is being said.

I don't agree with Jack Murtha on everything, but I think he was right on standing up to Bush on the Iraq War, and I have no problem with him holding the Majority Leader position if he gets the most votes.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. his lack of a profile has nothing to do with the video
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's tough.
I'm reminded of a former representative from my area, Dan Rostenkowski. He was actually convicted of wrongdoing. I was so disappointed because I couldn't reconcile the awful things he had done with the multitude of good policies he'd drafted and been a part of.

He was one of those old school Congresspeople who always got reelected and really brough home the bacon to IL and Chicago. At the time of the scandal, I was furious with him. But looking back, I can forgive him because on the whole, I think he served his constituents well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. The FBI guy was begging to give them money.
Entrapment of the first order. I only watched 17 minutes, but Murtha was holding out pretty well from all that temptation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zreosumgame Donating Member (862 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. what/ you are supposed to be OUTRAGED!
after all the DLC has TOLD you to feel like that and crypto-repukes are pushing it, hard
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
10. Murtha should not hold any position of leadership
IMO.

The Democrats said they would clean house. There is at least an appearance of corruption attached to Murtha.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. You obviously haven't watched the tape. Murtha did nothing wrong.
Edited on Wed Nov-15-06 04:28 PM by berni_mccoy
I watched the entire tape and analyzed every statement he made. He practically was getting frustrated telling the undercover agent that he couldn't take money for legislation. The proper way to do this was to invest in his district and get the people to support the legislative initiative. If an investor did it that way, it would be legal *and* ethical and Murtha could get involved only once the people requested it.

He basically gave the agent a lesson in Ethics 101.

Go here for a full analysis of the complete tape: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/berni_mccoy/127
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Didn't he say "maybe later"? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Keyword: *maybe*
Meaning, *maybe* if the laws regarding lobbying changed, or *maybe* when I'm no longer a Gov't official. He also said he could make a lot more money in the private sector but that's not what he's interested in. You can not simply take a 2 second soundbite out of a 53 minute clip and judge the man on those 2 seconds, especially when it doesn't mean anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. It was hardly 2 seconds
I have dialup so I can't watch the video.

Maybe someone could post a transcript?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You say it wasn't two seconds but you haven't seen the video?!? WTF?!?
He said ONCE during the entire 53 minutes that *maybe* at some point later he could talk about business that way. It literally took two seconds for him to say that and that's the only time he said anything of the sort.

Why are you even debating this without knowing the facts?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Is that what he meant by that?
I saw a clip on MSNBC, but they cut it off right after he said "maybe later." They left it as if he could be bribed at a later date...at least that was the implication I got from it. There was no mention that Murtha meant maybe he could talk about it later if conditions changed. Did Murtha ever offer an explanation?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Here's his defense of it, as presented on Hardball this evening:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. Here's My Reply:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2727190

-------------------
Personally, I find this to be an opportunity to prove we value ethics in Washington.

I watched the Murtha tape and have now reached an objective conclusion on it. After watching the tape and giving the accusations/denials due diligence by means of objective and fair thought process, I have reached the following conclusions:

1. Congressman Murtha did not do anything criminal, which explains why he was not charged.

2. Congressman Murtha undoubtedly, in my opinion, did completely cross ethical boundaries.

3. He may have done so with the best intentions for his district. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt there.

4. Regardless of good intentions, it still completely crossed ethical boundaries.

5. This was a long time ago. I'm sure he's grown much since and the impact of this 26 yr old incident is being grossly exaggerated.

6. Regardless of its current exaggeration, I cannot declare 100% approval of his actions done back then.

7. Congressman Murtha should not have to withdraw his candidacy for Majority Leader based on this.

8. Congressman Murtha SHOULD, however, acknowledge that his actions at that meeting, in retrospect, were not ethically sound but that he has grown since and recognized that. He should then refrain from publicly trying to assert that there was nothing ethically wrong with that meeting at all.

9. Congressman Murtha is a good man and a hero. This doesn't change that. We all know that there are many behind the scenes back door deals that go along with being in Congress. This doesn't make it ok.

That's a quick wrap-up of my views on it. For my conclusion in summary, I believe that this is being way over-hyped and that he did nothing criminal or that warrants his being admonished 26 years after the fact. But in spite of that, I find this to be an opportunity to show that we are a party of ethical standards no matter who is the violator of those ethics. If we want to put our money where our mouths are, we should be able to stand up firmly and admit that the meeting wasn't ethical. That admission in no way has to mean that his career is fraudulent or his reputation not deserved. It doesn't mean that he should then be chastised or cast out. It doesn't mean that we don't support him for all of the positive things he's done. It just means that we are true to our word when we say we value ethical standards regardless of party affiliation.

After watching that video, it is clear that Murtha was more than willing to use his political influence to do a favor for the sheik, dependent upon their large scale investments in his district. He did refuse a bribe, though I haven't reached a definitive conclusion on whether or not he was after one but doing it in such a way as to not get caught (hence the investments in his district). He alternatively may have just been asking for the investments for the betterment of his district. Like I said, I've not yet reached a conclusion on this and may not ever reach a factual one. But good intention or not, doing a political favor for somebody in return for some kind of reward, is simply unethical. There is no doubt in my mind after watching that video that what he did was in fact unethical. I don't, however, consider that violation to be something that should ruin his career 26 years later, or something he should be overly chastised for.

What I do believe, is that instead of his flat out denials of ethical wrongdoing, that he should immediately step forward and declare that the meeting of decades ago in retrospect was definitely not within the guidelines of ethics that he's come to appreciate, and that he's thankful he's grown in so many ways since to now recognize that. That's it. That's all he'd need to say in my opinion.

If we are serious about our ethical standards, then every one of us should be able to say that the meeting was unethical, while also followed by validation that it was a long time ago and he has learned much since. I find no flaw in that.

So I'm a man of my word. When I declare that I demand ethical judgment on all regardless of affiliation, I mean it. This was unethical: Period. But it is also a disgrace how the media are exploding it into an issue far beyond what it should be. I just think we could've spun it to our advantage by being up front and honest by calling it what it was, and having him step forward and admit it himself while confidently declaring how much he's grown wiser since.

That's my ramble on it, and I'm confident in my assessment of the situation after having watched the video.

Peace,

OMC

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 08th 2024, 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC