MORE CARVILLE-He Wanted ZELL MILLER To Be Gore's VP?!?!?!?!

[kpete]

Carville Wanted Zell Miller To Become Vice-President
by Chris Bowers, Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 03:27:21 PM EST

Every time Carville opens his mouth like he did today, I'm just going to keep dumping more of this oppo. When it comes to Carville, there is a lot of it, and it is really easy to come by. For example, James Carville and Paul Begala in the Washington Monthly, June 2000:

By choosing former Georgia governor Zell Miller as his running mate, Al Gore could add intellectual brainpower, rhetorical firepower, and lots of plain old populist piss-and-vinegar to this staid election.http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2000/0006.veeps.html

Good call. I guess Joe Lieberman was too liberal and pro-Democratic for Carville and Begala. The foresight demonstrated by Carville and Begala on who should lead the Democratic Party is breathtaking.

There is a difference between Howard Dean and James Carville. Unlike Dean, Carville represents the anti-Democratic wing of the Democratic Party. Carville's favorite Democrats are consistently those who attack other Democrats whenever possible.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2006/11/15/152721/07

[originalpckelly]

1. They could have had a unity convention with the Republicans in '04!

:eyes:

[blm]

16. Now I wonder who prompted Zell to go ballistic on Kerry in 2004?

Carville did not want an anti-corruption, open government Democrat in the WH - especially with his WAR CRIMINAL WIFE.

And it looks like Clinton 2 has been tapped to cover for Bush 2 the same way Clinton 1 covered up for Bush 1.

[Morgana LaFey]

41. I seriously believe that Zell is

not in his right mind any more. Really. I don't think a personality change of the order he's gone through is out of the question for someone suffering from Alzheimers or other dementias (and there are several other dementias). I hate to say it, but it's not just quirkiness goin' on here.

[texpatriot2004]

2. Ack! Yuck! No Zell and Lieberman is a traitor to the Country and

to the party.

[Deep13]

45. Lieberman's wrong about the war, but he's no traitor.

C'mon, now. Wage war on the United States or give aid and comfort to their enemies? I don't think Holy Joe is running guns for for bin Laden.

[texpatriot2004]

49. Then you haven't read much about AIPAC. He's a traitor nm

[LSparkle]

3. Any man who would stay married to MATALIN has a screw loose

Now it's just becoming ever more apparent.

Maybe, like Zell, James ought to cross the aisle ... and make way for REAL Democrats!

[David Zephyr]

4. K&R

kpete, thanks!

[gkhouston]

5. now you're just making things up to entertain us.

Aren't you? ;-)

[kpete]

8. they make it TOO easy...

[gkhouston]

9. adding Zell Miller for brain power...

:spray:

[frylock]

20. send. more. brains...

[Coexist]

6. I challenge him to a duel!!

[fooj]

7. Holy crap.

WTF is with Carville? The pitbull is showing what a FREAK he truly is. Miller????? LMAO!:rofl:

[Deep13]

10. "...could add intellectual brainpower..."

Um, yeah. :eyes:

[Cha]

25. Sadly for carville..zellout is

"intellectual brain power">

[Jacobin]

11. Mark this day on your calendar. Carville has gone insane.

[redqueen]

15. That's from 6/2000... dude's been batshit crazy for a while!

Why's he still listened to?

This is NUTS!

[Cha]

26. My guess is the corporatemedia

love him and he's just beginning to feel the ire of the grassy netroots that he's alwalys dissing.

We shall see.

[goclark]

35. Yep, totally insane

And he thinks we can't see through all of his insanity.

[redqueen]

12. This guy is a real piece of work... I'm sick of seeing his name!

:grr:

[hvn_nbr_2]

28. I've started to spell his name Carvile. It fits. nt

[Phredicles]

13. Wow - If there was one possible choice worse than Liebertoad:

[belpejic]

14. Carville worked for Zell

And if I recall correctly he had a very public falling out with him after Zell started losing his mind. Zell wasn't always such a schmuck.

I like what Dean is doing, and I think Carville is off base, but I just thought I'd point this out.

[redqueen]

17. When was that? Zell losing his mind?

I'm curious... at what point was he a reasonable man?

[belpejic]

19. Hey there

Cheers!

The nineties were way different than today. We thought we needed people like Zell back then, and he accordingly kept his craziness in check. But he lost it once he realized it was over. That's why Dean is head of the DNC and Carville is bitching about losing consulting business.

[many a good man]

29. Zell gave '92 keynote speech at DEM convention

I remember liking it a lot; wish I could find it. He was a huge supporter of Clinton.

[liberalpragmatist]

55. Yep. Read Zell's 1992 Convention Speech - it's actually pretty great

He gave Bill Clinton's 1992 keynote address. Really makes you wonder, what the hell happened?

Zell Miller’s Keynote Address: Democratic National Convention
NEW YORK, July 13, 1992

Listen to this voice.

It’s a voice flavored by the Blue Ridge; a voice straight out of a remote valley hidden among the peaks and hollows of the Appalachian Mountains - a voice that’s been described as more barbed wire than honeysuckle.

That this kind of voice could travel here from a forgotten corner of Appalachia is a testament to the grace of God and the greatness of the Democratic Party.

This week we are gathered here to nominate a man from a remote, rural corner of Arkansas to be president of the United States of America.

That is powerful proof that the American dream still lives - at least in the Democratic Party.

Bill Clinton is the only candidate for president who feels our pain, shares our hopes and will work his heart out to fulfill our dreams.

You see, I understand why Bill Clinton is so eager to see the American dream kept alive for a new generation.

Because I, too, was a product of that dream.

I was born during the worst of the Depression on a cold winter’s day in the drafty bedroom of a rented house, and I was my parent’s hope for the future.

Franklin Roosevelt was elected that year, and would soon replace generations of neglect with a whirlwind of activity, bringing to our little valley a very welcome supply of God’s most precious commodity - hope.

My father, a teacher, died when I was two weeks old, leaving a young widow with two small children.

But with my mother’s faith in God - and Mr. Roosevelt’s voice on the radio - we kept going.

After my father’s death, my mother with her own hands cleared a small piece of rugged land.

Every day she waded into a neighbor’s cold mountain creek, carrying out thousands of smooth stones to build a house.

I grew up watching my mother complete that house from the rocks she’d lifted from the creek and cement she mixed in a wheelbarrow - cement that today still bears her hand prints.

Her son bears her hand prints, too.

She pressed her pride and her hopes and her dreams deep into my soul.

So, you see, I know what Dan Quayle means when he says it’s best for children to have two parents.

You bet it is!

And it would be nice for them to have trust funds, too.

But we can’t all be born rich and handsome and lucky. That’s why we have a Democratic Party.

My family would still be isolated and destitute if we had not had FDR’s Democratic brand of government. I made it because Franklin Delano Roosevelt energized this nation. I made it because Harry Truman fought for working families like mine. I made it because John Kennedy’s rising tide lifted even our tiny boat.

I made it because Lyndon Johnson showed America that people who were born poor didn’t have to die poor. And I made it because a man with whom I served in the Georgia Senate - a man named Jimmy Carter - brought honesty and decency and integrity to public service.

But what of the kids of today? Who fights for the child of a single mother today? Because without a government that is on their side, those children have no hope. And when a child has no hope, a nation has no future.

I am a Democrat because we are the party of hope. For twelve dark years the Republicans have dealt in cynicism and skepticism. They’ve mastered the art of division and diversion, and they have robbed us of our hope.

Too many mothers today cannot tell their children what my mother told me - that working hard and playing by the rules can make your dreams come true. For millions, the American dream has become what the poet called “a dream deferred.” And if you recall the words of that poet-prophet, he warned us that a dream deferred can explode.

Robbed of hope, the voices of anger rise up, rise up from working Americans, who are tired of paying more in taxes and getting less in services. And George Bush doesn’t get it?

Americans cannot understand why some can buy the best health care in the world, but all the rest of us get is rising costs and cuts in coverage - or no health insurance at all. And George Bush doesn’t get it?

Americans cannot walk our streets in safety, because our ”tough-on-crime” President has waged a phony war on drugs, posing for pictures while cutting police, prosecutors and prisons. And George Bush doesn’t get it?

Americans have seen plants closed down, jobs shipped overseas and our hopes fade away as our economic position collapses right before our very eyes. And George Bush does not get it!

Four years ago, Mr. Bush told us he was a quiet man, who hears the voices of quiet people. Today, we know the truth: George Bush is a timid man who hears only the voices of caution and the status quo.

Let’s face facts: George Bush just doesn’t get it. He doesn’t see it; he doesn’t feel it, and he’s done nothing about it.

That’s why we cannot afford four more years.

If the “education president” gets another term, even our kids won’t be able to spell potato.

If the “law and order president” gets another term, the criminals will run wild, because our commander-in-chief talks like Dirty Harry, but acts like Barney Fife.

If the “environmental president” gets another term, the fish he catches off Kennebunkport will have three eyes.

And folks, after January, George Bush is going to have plenty of time to go fishing.

So much for the millionaire. But we’ve still got ourselves a billionaire. A billionaire!

He says he’s an outsider who will shake up the system in Washington. But as far back as 1974 he was lobbying Congress for tax breaks. He tried to turn $55,000 in contributions into a special $15 million tax loophole that was tailor-made for him. Sounds to me like instead of shaking the system up, Mr. Perot’s been shaking it down.

Ross says he’ll clean out the barn, but he’s been knee deep in it for years.

If Ross Perot’s an outsider, folks, I’m from Brooklyn. Mr. Perot’s giving us salesmanship, not leadership. And we’re not buying it.

And so the choice in this election is clear - we’ve got us a race between an aristocrat, an autocrat and a Democrat.

I know who I’m for. I’m for Bill Clinton because he is a Democrat who does not have to read a book or be briefed about the struggles of single-parent families, or what it means to work hard for everything he’s ever received in life.

There was no silver spoon in sight when he was born, three months after his father died. No one ever gave Bill Clinton a free ride as he worked his way through college and law school. And the people at Yale couldn’t believe it when he turned down a good job in Washington to return to Arkansas and teach.

Bill Clinton is a Democrat who has the courage to tell some of those liberals who think welfare should continue forever, and some of those conservatives who think there should be no welfare at all, that they’re both wrong. He’s a Democrat who will move people off the welfare rolls and onto the job rolls.

Bill Clinton is a Democrat who has the courage to lead a real war on crime here at home. And around the world he will be the kind of commander-in-chief this old Marine sergeant would be proud to follow.

That either one of us was able, one growing up in an Appalachian valley and the other in rural Arkansas, to eventually become governors of our states is a tribute to the American dream and yes, the Democratic Party that makes it a reality.

When I was growing up back in the mountains, whenever I felt like one of life’s losers, my mother used to point to the one and only paved road in our valley - a narrow little strip that disappeared winding its way through a distant gap – and she’d say, “You know what’s so great about this place? You can get anywhere in the world from here.”

Thanks to her and to God, the United States Marine Corps and the Democratic Party, I did go somewhere. But I’ve never really left that mountain valley. Shirley and I, our children and their children still live in the Appalachian town of Young Harris, Georgia, and tonight, one of my sons is sitting in front of the television set in the living room of that same rock house my mother and her neighbors built so many years ago.

Tonight, let our message be heard in every living room in every home in America. Wherever families and friends are gathered, let them know this:

We have a leader and a party and a platform that says to the everyday working people of this country: We will fight your fight; we will ease your burden; we will carry your cause.

We will hear all the voices of America - from the silky harmonies of the Gospel choirs to the rough-edged rhythms of a hot country band; from the razor’s edge rap of the inner city to the soaring beauty of the finest soprano.

We hear your voice, America.

We hear your voice. We will answer your call. We will keep the faith. And we will restore your hope.

Thank you. God bless you. And God bless America.

[madinmaryland]

18. Did he actually say that?

:wtf:

I don't think carville is that crazy.

[blm]

23. Maybe Zell was working for the coverup Dems when he bashed Kerry so vehemently.

Just a few years earlier, Zell praised Kerry to the heavens for his dedication to the veterans - and then he took aim at him in the KEYNOTE speech at the GOP convention.

Matalin and Carville must have worked up that routine.

[Cha]

33. Don'cha

think? Hindsight crystalizes the zellout's motives :think:

If they really did all this then they should be tried for war crimes against humanity, too..to further their own lofty ambitions.

[Guaranteed]

21. ROFL!!! Nice. nt

[dogday]

22. I compared the two of them

in an earlier thread....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2723828&mesg_id=2725262

[Cha]

34. Yep...you got that

right.

[Cha]

24. mary rubbed off on him..too bad it

wasn't the other way around. Too bad for mary and her "war criminal" past.

[many a good man]

32. He's just brown nosing trying to keep her out of jail

Anybody know if she's been named in the German Tribunal? Could put a big hamper on the family's European vacation plans.

[kiahzero]

27. Zell went crazy after 2000.

Don't let that stand in the way of the attacks, though.

[Cha]

36. So? It still doesn't say much for

for the ol' hasbeen's vision.

[kiahzero]

37. Perhaps

However, bear in mind that some of the events that lead to Zell's going off the deep end was caused by events that might not have happened if Gore had won in 2000.

[mac56]

30. Zell Miller is Granny Clampett in man-drag.

[Canuckistanian]

31. The funny part is Carville was a joke even before all this

I still don't get why anyone in Democratic circles pays attention to him.

He's gone over to the darkside and at a time when moderates are fleeing the GOP.

He can't keep getting free lunches over what he did in 1992. His credibility is now in the negative numbers.

[Cha]

40. I'd love to see what Jon Stewart

will do on this latest episode..if he's not on vacation yet for the holidays.

I know Stewart had Dean on and apologized to him for dissing his DNC "door-hanger strategy". And told Dean he could scream if he wanted and he wouldn't play it over and over again. Dean came out with a "BOOYA!" And then Dean thanked us at the end.

[Fermezlabush]

38. All the advice in there is nutz and based on the assumption * is better than

Democrats and Gore needs to add credibility to measure up to the idiot. Sheesh! What tools all! Half of the suggestions are Republicans!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. VP's a dead end position.

It's where you stick people you don't like. Particularly people at the opposite end of the spectrum from the presidential candidate.

That's why Gore picked Lieberman, who's little different than Miller.

Not that I'm defending Carville.

[Fermezlabush]

42. That's not the kind of VP Gore was, or Cheney is. Gore caved, like he did

in 2002 when he dropped out of the race. Hence my reservations about him.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. 2002?

:shrug:

No, Cheney's an exception to the rule. He's like Bush I was with Reagan, controlling an incompete stooge from behind the scenes.

[Buzz Clik]

44. OMG! He supported a Democrat to be the Democratic VP nominee?

Shocking. :crazy:

[Deep13]

46. Yeah and we might have picked up GA as a result.

Maybe not though. The only people who voted for Gore were ones who were afraid of Bush. He didn't win over too many for his own merits, substantial though they were.

[Buzz Clik]

47. If the Dems don't find a way to break into the South, this will never end.

Miller is as nutty as they come, but he would have had wonderful appeal in the South. Of course, four years later, and it was time for the rubber room.

[Deep13]

48. Yeah we need to do that.

For now, it might be better to concentrate on the Midwest and South West where people seem to be a little more open minded about change. Had Kerry carried Ohio, he would have won without a single Southern state. 'Course we did win Virginia last week.

[Major Hogwash]

50. Hahahahahaha - I wish I lived in a time they held duels!

Do you want our troops to be using spitballs?
Huh?
Well, do ya?
I wish I was there sitting with you, I'd punch you in the nose!
Huh?
Well, set a date, and we'll have a duel.
November 16th good enough for you?!
Okay with me.
Now, just get in the wayback machine and set the dial for 1800!!


Ask the "Ragin' Cajun" just how much money his wife Mary raised for the Republican candidates by throwing parties in his house last month.

[AIJ Alom]

51. Funny. I wanted Zell in 2000 too. Of course now that he went off the

deep end. Forget about it.

[autorank]

52. kpete, nice April Fools joke...It's November, not April!!!

Is this one of those pranks like the so called magic vote counting in Connecticut?

Is this some sort of disinformation to make Carville look like a total idiot at best or a victim of Manchurian matrimony at worst?

:sarcasm:

Are you funnin' us kpete?

Say its not so because I can't believe that Carville would say ahything so stupid.

[StrictlyRockers]

53. Fuck that weasel. And fuck that hater Zell Miller, too.

I can't tollerate intollerant people.

[BrightKnight]

54. He eats puppies too! - n/t

[liberalpragmatist]

56. This is a really dumb line of attack

Carville's comments about Dean are regrettable and if you want to rake him over the coals for that, go right ahead.

But he's done plenty right throughout his years in politics and his advice isn't always bad.

Moreover, this is a very intellectually-dishonest point of attack.

Zell Miller in 2000 was a perfectly mainstream, moderate-progressive governor. He was extremely popular in Georgia, and popular with national Democrats as well.

He became a lot more conservative after coming to the Senate and he completely went off the deep-end after 2002. But he wasn't always a right-wing nutjob. The irony was he kept claiming in 2004 that the Democratic Party left him, when in actuality, HE was one the one who abruptly switched all his positions on the issues and became a radical right-winger. He even went from pro-choice to pro-life, claiming ludicrously that the birth of his GREAT-grandchild made him appreciate the sanctity of life. And he even renounced his admirable battle to remove the confederate flag from the Georgia flag in 1994.

As for Carville, when Zell endorsed Bush, Carville very publicly denounced him and asked for his $1000 check back from Zell's 2000 campaign.

[LittleClarkie]

58. Hence, "Zig Zag"

I wonder, seriously, if he's got Alheimers.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

59. I agree

This thread is about something six years ago that didn't amount to anything. If Carville is to be denounced for anything it should be for the shitty campaign job he did in 2004.

[BrightKnight]

68. delete

[Raine]

57. Holy SHIT

I think Carville is completely nuts! :crazy: Lets not forget that Gore and Lieberman WON! If Gore had done that he would lost the progressive wing to Nader for good.

[lonestarnot]

60. Damn. Carville is loosing all his clothes lately.

[donheld]

61. That should end the discussion right there.

Anyone with that foolish of an idea needs to be banished.

[last_texas_dem]

62. In defense of Carville

(And his bullshit anti-Dean statements make me defend him very grudgingly...) There are two Zell Millers to take into consideration, the pre-Shrub era Zell and the Shrub-era Zell. The pre-Shrub was a popular, Clinton-esque governor of Georgia who gave a popular speech at the '92 Democratic convention, and was likely seen by many as a guy who might end up in higher office. The Shrub-era Zell is of course the insane right-wing fruitbat that we all know and "love."

Sure, Carville's judgment could be called into question for recommending a guy who, although he was a moderate Dem at the time that he suggested him, might have ended up going insane as Gore's VP while in office and caused a lot of problems. But, on that note, how many Democrats predicted how far to the right on some major issues Lieberman would move under Shrub's Presidency? And would he have moved similarly if Gore had gotten into office and Lieberman were serving as his VP? I don't think anyone can really know.

[deacon]

63. et tu James? n/t

[LeftishBrit]

64. As I understand, Miller moved to the right since that time

So while it might not have been that great an idea on hindsight, it wasn't as though he was endorsing a right-wing nutter at the time.

What is much more worrying is that he seems to currently be in contact with Newt Gingrich, according to another thread.

[leveymg]

65. Breathtaking bad judgement by Carville. Truly amazing he kept his

con going as long as he did.

Zell Miller for Gore's running mate?? That's not triangulation politics, it's a 3-way inward-facing firing squad.

Unbelievable.


>:silly:<

[bmbmd]

66. Gore could have won with Miller.

No Bush, no Cheney, maybe no 9/11.

[DemBones DemBones]

67. Zell Miller recommended Carville and Begala to Bill Clinton;

they ran his gubernatorial campaigns. He was a pretty good Georgia governor, particularly regarding education, and I can't remember anything bad he did. As someone noted upthread, he gave the 1992 keynote speech at the Democratic convention. Hell, Bill Clinton came to him looking for support and advice before he ran for the presidency.

When Sen. Paul Coverdell (R-GA) died, Gov. Roy Barnes (D) appointed Zell to fill out his term, which was only a few months. Zell didn't do anything weird during that time and he'd been a popular governor, plus he was the incumbent, so naturally he was re-elected.

It's said that elitist Washingtonians looked down on him, treated him as a rube, which didn't sit well with him, since he was a college professor before becoming governor. (With all the anti-South sentiment at DU, I can believe that other Dems in the Senate treated Zell as a lesser life form.) He had known George Bush for years because they went to gubernatorial conferences together and are both baseball fans. Bush and the Republicans were nice to him and he was soon supporting their agenda. He hated Washington and didn't run for a second term, which he could have since he'd been appointed to his first very short term.

Lesson: support Southern Dems if you want their support.

[BrightKnight]

69. War between centrist and purist Democrats is a great idea!

Everybody grab a baseball bat. I love party infighting. We should have a lot more of them.

[jpwhite]

70. at the time it wasn't a bad idea, but now....

it would be a terrible idea. We have so many people now that would do a much better job. That is if Gore were to run again. If Gore ran in 2008 I would want Clark, Obama, or Edwards to be the VP. Zell Miller has basically crossed over to the other side. America has changed for Zell and he doesn't like it. We are more tolerant of homosexuals now than we were ten years ago. We are more interested in using diplomacy than we are in bombing people. We are more interested in making sure people have health care because we don't want people filling up emergency rooms with non-emergencies. Things change and you have to change with the times. Zell is not comfortable with doing that. He isn't a bad guy. He is just stuck in his ways.

James
[e-mail]

[grizmaster]

71. once again, thanks kpete- K&R

[On the Road]

72. I Hate Zell Miller as Much as Anyone

and I think Carville is nuts for suggesting him, but I will say this: If Miller HAD been on the ticket, Gore might be president today.

[arewenotdemo]

73. and David Brooks nominated Holy Joe for VP