WATCH THE ABSCAM VIDEO: Murth Displays A High Degree of Ethics

[berni_mccoy]

I've watched the Abscam tape. You can watch it here too: http://lonestartimes.com/2006/11/14/

I listened to every statement Murtha made.

Murtha did exactly this:
1. Discussed housing prices
2. Discussed the problems of his District
3. Told the agents that they can't give him money to get legislature drafted and that is illegal
4. Told the agents that he wants to follow the law
5. Told the agents that they are free to invest in his district and that he would be appreciative of that
6. Told the agents that they don't need to spend a damned cent on this
7. Told the agents that he could speak kindly of them for investing in their business and that would work for him politically to show he is able to get business investments for his district
8. He even told them what is legal and that they are going out of bounds
9. Any sort of investments have to be dealt with legally and politically and that he needs to know details before discussing further
10. A few investments in his district will get the attention and everything has to be above board or otherwise people go to jail.
11. The people in his district will be supportive of investing companies and will want to advertise the fact and that Murtha was helpful. It's a good thing when done properly.
12. Introducing legislation is only legal when initiated by people in his district.
13. The LEGAL and ETHICAL way for a company to have legislation drafted is by investing in the district, lobbying the people of the district to initiate the laws and then Murtha can respond.
14. He gave examples of ways that this has been done successfully and unsuccessfully in the past.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

What Murtha Didn't say:
1. He didn't take money to draft legislation
2. He didn't say he would draft legislation for investing in his district
3. He didn't guarantee the agents that they would get their legislation proposal supported by the people in his district.

Murtha was completely above board on the entire issue and educated the agents on the legal and ethical issues of lobbying.

[texpatriot2004]

1. K & R nm

[Coexist]

2. knr

[BootinUp]

3. I agree, its nothing but sliming by association.

[bleedingheart]

6. Murtha is trying to bring pork to his district...at no point does

he say he will take money for his personal use.

He does mention helping particular banking friends. Now...some people with active imaginations might just think that Murtha would get a cut once his friends got a cut...

[hootinholler]

41. I agree except for the pork label...

Encouraging outside investment isn't pork, getting a gubmint project is.

-Hoot

[bleedingheart]

4. What you detailed is exactly what happened...

however more idealistic people might say...."why would Murtha even want to help a bad sheik come into his district....just for money"???

[Goblinmonger]

5. Were you around in the late 70s?

The economy was tanking big time. Is it wrong for Murtha to want to bring business to his district? Would this have been better if it was a French company? Canadian?

[bleedingheart]

8. I didn't say it was wrong...

I grew up in this area...(I live next to Murtha's district)...

I stated that more "idealistic" people might find it distasteful to bring in a corrupt sheik...

But I agree with you...Murtha was keen on bringing jobs to his district.

The Steel industry had collapsed...coal was on a downturn...it was a shitty time..

[berni_mccoy]

7. He's giving them the benefit of the doubt... and if someone wants to help his

district, then he is being non-discriminatory (or equal opportunity) to all investors.

[bleedingheart]

10. and what backs up Murtha's integrity is the fact that he kept asking

for more details...and the fact that he kept stating that this was about helping his district, creating jobs..etc

I didn't hear him say anything about him asking for anyone to line his pockets personally...

[LSK]

9. 1980?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

All this is about something from 1980???????

:wtf:

[bleedingheart]

11. It is a political...."I like the 80's" episode on VH1...

hee hee

[LSK]

12. Murtha said "god-damn" - thats it, im not supporting him!!!

:rofl:

[bleedingheart]

13. I remember the whole thing....cuz I remember it being on the TV

all the time when I was a kid ...

Funny part is that what goes on in this video...is exactly what goes on today...but now there are lobbyists with fully time jobs trying to massage votes and promise money to districts...

[LSK]

14. he said "son of a bitch" now

Oh man, he is so evil!

:D

:rofl:

[berni_mccoy]

15. He said the F-word too... (I think he was getting frustrated with these agents)

They kept offering $50,000 in cash and he kept telling them over and over again that he can't take it and that the proper way to do it is to invest in the district and use that as a political action to get the people to support their legislative initiative.

[gkhouston]

16. apparently, he's an ethical pottymouth?

;-)

[underpants]

17. Amazing. Recommended and bookmarking

I had seen all kinds of threads about this on DUand had no idea what the truth was. I will watch this for myself later but I take your word for it.

As usual nothing happened. Nada. Zilch.

[berni_mccoy]

19. In fact, if you watch the very end, the main undercover investigator is pissed

That the mole brought him someone who is not a criminal and wasted their time. Right at 52:00, you'll see where the mole totally misled the investigator on the $50,000 issue.

[LSK]

18. 15 minutes into it

"I want this guy to spend money in my district, Im delighted to do business with the guy and do any god-damned thing I can within bounds and I dont get myself in jail.... I have to know the details ... and then I can check into it"

[LSK]

20. 19 minutes

"What I gotta know is EXACTLY what you have in mind"

[berni_mccoy]

21. Thanks for watching it.

There are too many people at DU willing to pass judgement on Murtha without knowing the full story or even just watching the tape.

[LSK]

22. i have doubts about Murtha but it has nothing to do with this issue

He quite frankly is hawk and a conservative Democrat. 2 years ago he might even have been labeled an Dino. He just saw the reality of Iraq earlier and spoke up. He still loves his military thou.

Would he fight for the environment? Would he fight for National Health Care? Does he believe we are responsible for Global Warming? Does he believe the middle class is being fucked economically? Does he believe in the Patriot Act?

These are the real issues that I am concerned about. We all know where he stands in regards to Iraq, what about everything else?

[berni_mccoy]

24. I can't answer those questions, but one question I can answer after watching this

He *will* fight for his constituency, and for a rep, that is what matters the most. Attitudes and politics for a constituency can change over time, but Murtha has shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that he stands for the people he represents.

And you'll find many people here, including myself, who are pro-military. I come from a military family. We need a strong military for defense. The problem I have with politics and the military is that it too is overplayed. Politicians (mostly republicans) use the military as a wedge issue or a hammer to beat their opponents with. It's to the point where you can't vote to decrease spending in the military or you'll lose your next election. The truth is, we are spending far more on military than we need to and we are abusing the military with the BushCo agenda.

[underpants]

23. Murtha is the one on the right sitting in the loveseat

right?

Wow I don't know why but I expected an old white haired guy :rof:

God those suits look uncomfortable.

[Stand and Fight]

25. Finally someone who has watched the video and analyzed it!

I'm so damn sick and tired of people jumping to conclusions based on media hype without having viewed the video. I in simply in one of those moods where I don't have the damn energy to point out the obvious to people.

McCoy, you're the real deal and you've done a great service here. Kicked and recommended. :yourock:

[berni_mccoy]

26. Kicking for Truth

Watch the video people!

[LSK]

27. it is amazing the amount of Swiftboating that is going on

And its going on HERE.

What the fuck happened to the DU that debated issues and didnt have to resort to red herrings, old non-issues and taking stuff out of context???

[berni_mccoy]

29. I dunno, freeper influx, pent up frustrations at Bush, who knows

but it's there. I wonder how long before DU settles back down. Things have been pretty tense since Israel invaded Lebanon.

[alfredo]

28. That's just what I wanted to read.

[berni_mccoy]

30. Murtha Up on Hardball

[berni_mccoy]

31. Cool. He just laid to rest any question over his *maybe later* statement in the video

that has got some hand wringers all upset here. That 2-second clip of the 53 minute video is where he is basically trying to get these guys off his back. They pushed and pushed the $50k on him over and over again 20 minutes straight before that where he repeatedly said, no that's not right, we don't do that here. He wanted them basically to stop and he had to finesse his way out of it. Remember, he thought these guys were Sheiks and he didn't want to offend them and if he could educate them on how to do it ethically and legally, it would be a big win for his district.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WRONG or HARM IN THAT. Murtha did what he was supposed to do: stand up for his district while upholding the law and a high level of ethics. Can we have DUers stop buying into the RW talking points now?

[zreosumgame]

32. but but but the AMERICAN SPECTATOR

has alreaad found him guilty! How can you possibly say no to that RW rag?

[texpatriot2004]

33. kick nm

[Judi Lynn]

34. Thank you.

:kick: :kick: :kick:

[texpatriot2004]

35. Thanks and bookmarked nm

[alittlelark]

36. Very interesting vid. He did not sound corrupt - but

He swore like a sailor!

Perhaps the RW should focus on his cursing - they might gain some traction w/ Fundies w/ that accusation.

[berni_mccoy]

37. DAMN, I hate to keep kicking this myself, But I have a great reason

I'm still seeing TOO MANY GOOD DUers buying the RW Talking points on this. I just can't believe so many of us are falling for the BULLSHIT story being put out there by obviously RW HACKS.

PLEASE WATCH THE VIDEO and read my analysis.

[BlackVelvet04]

38. A couple of points......

just because people have questions doesn't mean they are buying RW talking points. I didn't hear any talking points, I heard part of the video. My question is can't we find someone who doesn't have something hanging out there to be used as ammunition against them?

Secondly, NOT EVERYBODY CAN WATCH THE FRIGGIN' VIDEO. I have dialup....I would never get a 52 minute video downloaded.

Maybe if someone had a transcript it would help.

[berni_mccoy]

39. Can't help you on the bandwidth issue

But I can address your first question. Murtha does not have "something hanging out there to be used against him". THEY ARE MAKING IT UP. The FBI tried to catch him in a sting and he gave them an education on ethics. The RW is expert at taking a 5-10 second snippet of something someone says and turning into a bullshit story. And yes, THEY CAN AND WILL DO THIS TO ANYONE who poses a risk to their agenda.

There is not a SINGLE PERSON who has stood up against the CRIMINALITY OF THIS ADMINISTRATION who has not been completely attacked this way. Go ahead, name one person who has come out publicly to attack the Administration who has not been brutally hit with this crap. They did it to the Dixie Chicks for crying out loud.

[underpants]

42. I watched most of the video and then happened by H&C last night

I just knew that Hannity would be all over this.

ON EDIT- I watched the first 25 minutes and then skipped ahead to the last 5 minutes.

And I also knew what part he would focus on, the "not now but maybe in the future" part. Hannity knows exactly what Murtha meant ;-) even though we KNOW what actually happened which is that Murtha never took any money. As much as the ethics committe was willing to indict they didn't indict Murtha.

The part at the end where the lead guy (Melvin Weinberg?) says that it Murtha isn't going to take the money is the most telling part but you and I know that that will never see the light of day on Fox or anywhere else.

[berni_mccoy]

43. I hope Murtha Sues Fox News for this

Someone has to stand up to Fox and tell them they can't take a statement out of context and destroy someone's reputation with it. There are plenty of people here ready to throw Murtha under the bus for this bullshit! What Fox did is called SLANDER and they can be sued for it.

[eringer]

45. Hannity Sucks

Caught part of his puke on the radio yesterday. Apparently, his keepers in the WH want him to take the lead on the character assassination of Nancy Pelosi for backing Murtha as majority leader. Diana Irey (the one that Murtha beat last week to retain his seat) was "on the air" with Hannity to do some Murtha/Pelosi bashing as well. She sounds like an Ann Coulter clone. Pathetic.

[Bozita]

40. Just wonderin' how many times Mitch McConnell faced similar situations

Also wonderin' how many times Mitch turned down the money.

After all, McConnell has raised over $220 MILLION for himself and his GOP mouth-breathers.

Murtha is OK in my book.

[GOPS Worst Fear]

44. We Can Bring Up The Keating 5 Scandal and McCain

I know the others were Democrats but that doesn't exhonerate McCains involvment.Let's bring that up.

[gully]

46. kicking for later.

nt

[Ino]

47. i'd like to see video of those who took the money

the comparison may put to rest all the innuendo