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Do you think CarVILE is a Repuke mole, recruited by his wife, or a Hill/Bill toady?

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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:11 PM
Original message
Poll question: Do you think CarVILE is a Repuke mole, recruited by his wife, or a Hill/Bill toady?
Edited on Wed Nov-15-06 07:19 PM by MyPetRock
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Where's the BOTH option?
Carville belongs to the coverup wing of the Dem party which is led by Clintons FOR BushInc. which benefits Carville's war criminal wife.

Democrats, the Truth Still Matters!
By Robert Parry
(First Posted May 11, 2006)

Editor's Note: With the Democratic victories in the House and Senate, there is finally the opportunity to demand answers from the Bush administration about important questions, ranging from Dick Cheney's secret energy policies to George W. Bush's Iraq War deceptions. But the Democrats are sure to be tempted to put the goal of "bipartisanship" ahead of the imperative for truth.

Democrats, being Democrats, always want to put governance, such as enacting legislation and building coalitions, ahead of oversight, which often involves confrontation and hard feelings. Democrats have a difficult time understanding why facts about past events matter when there are problems in the present and challenges in the future.

Given that proclivity, we are re-posting a story from last May that examined why President Bill Clinton and the last Democratic congressional majority (in 1993-94) shied away from a fight over key historical scandals from the Reagan-Bush-I years -- and the high price the Democrats paid for that decision:

My book, Secrecy & Privilege, opens with a scene in spring 1994 when a guest at a White House social event asks Bill Clinton why his administration didn’t pursue unresolved scandals from the Reagan-Bush era, such as the Iraqgate secret support for Saddam Hussein’s government and clandestine arms shipments to Iran.

Clinton responds to the questions from the guest, documentary filmmaker Stuart Sender, by saying, in effect, that those historical questions had to take a back seat to Clinton’s domestic agenda and his desire for greater bipartisanship with the Republicans.

Clinton “didn’t feel that it was a good idea to pursue these investigations because he was going to have to work with these people,” Sender told me in an interview. “He was going to try to work with these guys, compromise, build working relationships.”

Clinton’s relatively low regard for the value of truth and accountability is relevant again today because other centrist Democrats are urging their party to give George W. Bush’s administration a similar pass if the Democrats win one or both houses of Congress.

Reporting about a booklet issued by the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank of the Democratic Leadership Council, the Washington Post wrote, “these centrist Democrats … warned against calls to launch investigations into past administration decisions if Democrats gain control of the House or Senate in the November elections.”

These Democrats also called on the party to reject its “non-interventionist left” wing, which opposed the Iraq War and which wants Bush held accountable for the deceptions that surrounded it.

“Many of us are disturbed by the calls for investigations or even impeachment as the defining vision for our party for what we would do if we get back into office,” said pollster Jeremy Rosner, calling such an approach backward-looking.

Yet, before Democrats endorse the DLC’s don’t-look-back advice, they might want to examine the consequences of Clinton’s decision in 1993-94 to help the Republicans sweep the Reagan-Bush scandals under the rug. Most of what Clinton hoped for – bipartisanship and support for his domestic policies – never materialized.

‘Politicized’ CIA

After winning Election 1992, Clinton also rebuffed appeals from members of the U.S. intelligence community to reverse the Reagan-Bush “politicization” of the CIA’s analytical division by rebuilding the ethos of objective analysis even when it goes against a President’s desires.

Instead, in another accommodating gesture, Clinton gave the CIA director’s job to right-wing Democrat, James Woolsey, who had close ties to the Reagan-Bush administration and especially to its neoconservatives.

One senior Democrat told me Clinton picked Woolsey as a reward to the neocon-leaning editors of the New Republic for backing Clinton in Election 1992.

“I told that the New Republic hadn’t brought them enough votes to win a single precinct,” the senior Democrat said. “But they kept saying that they owed this to the editors of the New Republic.”

During his tenure at the CIA, Woolsey did next to nothing to address the CIA’s “politicization” issue, intelligence analysts said. Woolsey also never gained Clinton’s confidence and – after several CIA scandals – was out of the job by January 1995.

At the time of that White House chat with Stuart Sender, Clinton thought that his see-no-evil approach toward the Reagan-Bush era would give him an edge in fulfilling his campaign promise to “focus like a laser beam” on the economy.

He was taking on other major domestic challenges, too, like cutting the federal deficit and pushing a national health insurance plan developed by First Lady Hillary Clinton.

So for Clinton, learning the truth about controversial deals between the Reagan-Bush crowd and the autocratic governments of Iraq and Iran just wasn’t on the White House radar screen. Clinton also wanted to grant President George H.W. Bush a gracious exit.

“I wanted the country to be more united, not more divided,” Clinton explained in his 2004 memoir, My Life. “President Bush had given decades of service to our country, and I thought we should allow him to retire in peace, leaving the (Iran-Contra) matter between him and his conscience.”

Unexpected Results

Clinton’s generosity to George H.W. Bush and the Republicans, of course, didn’t turn out as he had hoped. Instead of bipartisanship and reciprocity, he was confronted with eight years of unrelenting GOP hostility, attacks on both his programs and his personal reputation.

Later, as tensions grew in the Middle East, the American people and even U.S. policymakers were flying partially blind, denied anything close to the full truth about the history of clandestine relationships between the Reagan-Bush team and hostile nations in the Middle East.

Clinton’s failure to expose that real history also led indirectly to the restoration of Bush Family control of the White House in 2001. Despite George W. Bush’s inexperience as a national leader, he drew support from many Americans who remembered his father’s presidency fondly.

If the full story of George H.W. Bush’s role in secret deals with Iraq and Iran had ever been made public, the Bush Family’s reputation would have been damaged to such a degree that George W. Bush’s candidacy would not have been conceivable.

Not only did Clinton inadvertently clear the way for the Bush restoration, but the Right’s political ascendancy wiped away much of the Clinton legacy, including a balanced federal budget and progress on income inequality. A poorly informed American public also was easily misled on what to do about U.S. relations with Iraq and Iran.

In retrospect, Clinton’s tolerance of Reagan-Bush cover-ups was a lose-lose-lose – the public was denied information it needed to understand dangerous complexities in the Middle East, George W. Bush built his presidential ambitions on the nation’s fuzzy memories of his dad, and Republicans got to enact a conservative agenda.

Clinton’s approach also reflected a lack of appreciation for the importance of truth in a democratic Republic. If the American people are expected to do their part in making sure democracy works, they need to be given at least a chance of being an informed electorate.

Yet, Clinton – and now some pro-Iraq War Democrats – view truth as an expendable trade-off when measured against political tactics or government policies. In reality, accurate information about important events is the lifeblood of democracy.

Though sometimes the truth can hurt, Clinton and the Democrats should understand that covering up the truth can hurt even more. As Clinton’s folly with the Reagan-Bush scandals should have taught, the Democrats may hurt themselves worst of all when helping the Republicans cover up the truth.

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq, can be ordered at secrecyandprivilege.com. It's also available at Amazon.com, as is his 1999 book, Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth.'

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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Ahhhhhhhhh.... Great minds think alike!
BOTH was my answer, too!

TC
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QuestionAll... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. my immediate answer too! lol.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. same!
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cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. What else could he be? He has to be both
sleeping with the enemy and trying to tear down Howard Dean

I voted other---but that just doesnt do this double-dealing justice
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MoonRiver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Just added that option!
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Thanks, blm! It's always so frustrating that so few DUers understand "Deep Politics"
People have GOT to look beneath the surfaces and start looking for the hidden manipulations of the power elite. Constance Rice put it wonderfully a few years ago in an interview with Bill Moyers on the old one hour "Now" program. She said, "It's all a show. You've got to look behind the THIRD curtain!"

sw
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rhiannon55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Wow, thanks, blm, for the great read
It's a hard truth to contemplate, but we Democrats make mistakes that lead to consequences we don't want when we trust those people too much. We want to hold hands and sing kumbaya because we're generous, caring people. We want to forgive people rather than hold them accountable, and this can lead to the bad behavior continuing and worsening. I love Big Dawg, but he disappointed me a lot, and this article helps me understand better.

We're just too damned NICE. :)
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Letting BushInc off AGAIN proves some Dems are 'soft on crime' - crimes against the
Constitution.

Parry's rundown is VERY LIBERATING. It is so CLEAR that loyalty to party or person does NOTHING to protect this nation's fragile democracy. Truth is ALL that matters - and this country CANNOT survive much longer without it.
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rhiannon55 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. You're right of course
Parry's article is stunningly liberating. Our newly empowered Congress cannot let the Democratic propensity for cooperation get in the way of finding out the truth. We can't let them get away with doing nothing about the crimes that have been committed.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. I've thought about it all afternoon, and I've decided now -- he's BOTH.
One is not exclusive of the other, and he is as smarmy and disgusting as someone who could manage to go between sides when necessary. I think he'll always be a Clintonista, but he goes home at night to the Queen Pit Viper of the Republicans Party, so I think he does what he needs to do to stay on the good side of EACH side.

TC

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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. Both
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Chiming in with a big BOTH...
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HaggardsMethDealer Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. They know that Dean's popularity is a threat to Hillary.
So they are trying to keep him from getting any credit for the win. If Dean gets too much of a following, Hillary is going to get creamed in the primaries. That is ALL this is about.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. He's a cannibalistic roach-eater.
:D



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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. I think Carville is feeling marginalized, and wants to return to power.
Ego.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. that's what I think too, and DU'ers spinning Clinton conspiracy's are either bored
Edited on Wed Nov-15-06 09:10 PM by cryingshame
or drama queens.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. No, he just thinks he is right. The Gumption of the Man!
:sarcasm:

I think its an important debate to have for the future of the party. I support Deans efforts.
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LTR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
13. None
He's just an egomaniac angling for power and recognition.

At worst, he's just an attention whore.

I don't buy any of his bloviating. It's all just a bunch of beltway posturing.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. I haven't seen one bit of evidence
that the Clinton's have anything to do with Carville's remarks. Just guilt by association and same innuendo that the mainstream media uses to make it appear that everything the Clintons do is part of a devious political plot.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. What was that comment in "Primary Colors" about his snake? n/t
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-15-06 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. Donna Brazile is a mole. Carville is a "well-meaning" sellout who is in bed with the enemy
In order to get his old job back, he feels he has to prop up the Republicans against the progressive wing of the party so Hillary will have someone to run against. Elite Beltway Dems like to chew up and spit out lefty or populist activists -- anyone who challenges their bread and butter issues, which are written to conform with THEIR allies on K Street.

K Street has two wings -- the DeLay wing and the Clinton wing.

Actually three wings if you count the Bush the Elder wing. So right there you see how the odds are stacked. You ever noticed all those high-rise office buildings in downtown DC and Northern Virginia? You think that some non-governmental industry pays the rent? You think their owners -- powerful billionaire real estate interests who have bought and sold senators and governors -- want the government to shut down the flow of cash to K Street?

How about the millionaires who make their living ensuring access to Congress for corporations -- resulting in the newly renovated US Capitol, with above-ground entrances reserved for congressmen and "registered lobbyists"? You think they will abandon any of their power short of a massive domestic crisis?
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Great post, LG - wish I could recommend.
.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
23. BOTH! nt
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
24. He's irrelevant.
As much as he pisses me off, the best way to deal with his sabotage is to say "Carville who"?

Dean is the face of winning democrats. Those that support him should share the spotlight and the podium.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
26. Potato, Potatah
Seriously two sides of same coin. I'm not a big fan of the DLC.
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jpwhite Donating Member (178 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
27. Carville is an overzealous consultant
I think James Carville is an overzealous consultant who needs a political race to be involved in so that he can put his energy into something productive. He is a loyal dem but he operates under the old ways of doing things. He will come around eventually to the 50 state plan.

In the meantime we need to send him to a state where we feel that there is a tough race for 08. He can then monitor the current republican senator for weaknesses and help the potential candidate to win that senate seat. I just think he wants the democratic party to win, but he disagrees with Dean. He's not a threat and he isn't going to let his wife influence him. My wife and I don't always agree. I love her but I am my own man. We talk about things and on the important things like how we raise the kids and spend our money we must have a consensus. But when it comes to politics, I don't let my wife try to tell me how to vote (although we are both liberal). I think James Carville is smart enough to keep his wife's opinions from influencing him.

There has to be other things about her that we don't know about that are cool. As long as they are happy together why should we stick our noses in his marriage. What James Carville needs is a good senate race to work on. That way he can help us increase our majority in the senate.

James
jpwhite@okstatealumni.org

ps. some here may call me crazy, but if I was single I would have asked her out too. She is an attractive woman. But then again Ann Coulter is attractive too, but after listening for 30 seconds I would have told her "let's just be friends". :rofl:


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geiger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
28. get a life, out of the basement, or both
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Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. Just seriously bad at his job, past and present
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