If Murtha becomes majority leader we DESERVE to lose the House in 08'.

[Clarkie1]

Politics as usual stops right here, right now. If the Dem caucus nominates an ethically tainted leader, then Nader was right. There really is no difference.

I am NOT in a good mood tonight.

[Ninja Jordan]

1. 27 years ago, was never even concluded he did anything unethical

[Clarkie1]

3. I don't give a damn. I read what Murtha said.

Not convicted isn't good enough, not by a longshot.

[Clarkie1]

6. Sounds like something an "ethically challenged" Republican would say.

I'm disgusted.

[LittleClarkie]

2. He was caught red handed not taking a bribe

What else hasn't he done? How exactly is he tainted that isn't part of a smear.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. Back in '52 he was caught returning a library book that was not overdue.

He was also observed not running a red light on several occasions, and rumor has it that he actually did not shoplift from Bloomingdale's.

WTF is all this crap about a 26-year-old tape showing him NOT taking a bribe?

[Submariner]

4. He DID NOT accept Abscam cash

And he was cleared of ALL improprieties by the full House. Now get over the MSGOP crap and right wing spin please. Thanks you very much..PERIOD

[JamesJoyce]

5. Agreed

William Jefferson, if he wins his run-off.

[MoseyWalker]

7. I don't believe he is ethically tainted

He was dealing with people who had a bucket full of money, and he turned it down. He wanted to help his district. He said what probably had to be said to get out of the situation.

Murtha is right, he is being swiftboated.

Hope your mood improves!

[Clarkie1]

8. People, we shouldn't even be having this fucking discussion!

For God's sake, is it not possible for Democrats to find someone who is above reproach? The people just voted us in because of a corrupt Congress. THIS is the best we can do in the nomination of our Majority Leader?

It's pathetic!

[BlackVelvet04]

18. I agree.

Of course that's extremely unpopular around here.

[AlCzervik]

26. wow this is the first thread today i've seen about this subject.

[DianeG5385]

30. Steny, Steny, Steny....the vote is tomorrow

Let's play fair.

[JackORoses]

53. Murtha is the right choice

Hoyer is the Republican choice for Majority Leader.

Candy Crowley just gave her seal of approval.

[MonkeyFunk]

10. the bastard

he was caught on tape not taking a bribe. What kind of Congrssman is that? Hang him.

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. He's not ethically tainted. He was never indicted and the House Ethics Committee

cleared him of ALL WRONGDOING. The man did NOTHING wrong. Did you see him on Hardball? If not, go to MSNBC's web site and watch the interview video. The man is innocent.

[Skinner]

12. Well done. Expertly crafted flame bait.

I like how you brought Nader into it, too... Just in case someone might be inclined to pass on the Murtha angle.

[Earth_First]

15. heh! n/t

[0007]

You've noticed that too, 'eh?

[Clarkie1]

31. Flame bait? I beg to differ.

The Democrats will elect a majority leader tomorrow. In my opinion, they would be fools to nominate someone who has ethical questions surrounding their past. Not only that, but Murtha helped block Democratically proposed ethics reforms LAST YEAR. Not surprising, since he is know to work very well with the Republicans and is known as a good "back room dealmaker."

There is nothing wrong with attacking a fellow Democrat on basis of fact, especially a fellow Democrat wishing to assume a leadership position. It's healthy for the party. Would you prefer all Dems simply put their heads in the sand and pretend these things never happened?

I respect Murtha for speaking up on the war, but that's not enough. I don't want to see the news tomorrow if Murtha is wins this undeserved position.

[dailykoff]

52. It's divisive.

Like it or not Pelosi will lead the House and she's strongly backing Murtha.

[New Earth]

38. lmao

[A-Schwarzenegger]

41. Damn, Skinner-recommended flamebait!

[tabasco]

13. Why do you think Murtha is ethically tainted?

I'm not that educated on the subject. :shrug:

[KingFlorez]

14. Give me a break

He's never committed a crime, he was caught on tape not taking a bribe.

[gulfcoastliberal]

16. What a pantload... nt

[Oilwellian]

17. Turning down a bribe is "ethically tainted?"

oooookay. :silly::eyes:

[DianeG5385]

19. He DID NOT TAKE A BRIBE. He did make nice "noises"

but that is likely due to the perceived "clout" of the Bribers. That is, if powerful people seek to bribe and you make a big fuss they will seriously take you down so you don't out them, so you equivocate a bit to get out of the situation. THAT'S what I hear. He didn't know it was a sting so, he got himself out of a sticky situation, didn't piss anyone off and kept his integrity. Now there are those who (DLC) shall remain nameless, (DLC) who want a piece of the new power and are so freaking' hungry for it they act like pukes.

[Beelzebud]

20. Yes. By all means, believe the corporate media bullshit.

I mean, they've never flat out lied about Democrats before, or helped lie us into a war or anything.

[w4rma]

WATCH THE ABSCAM VIDEO: Murtha Displays A High Degree of Ethics

posted by berni_mccoy:
I've watched the Abscam tape. You can watch it here too: http://lonestartimes.com/2006/11/14/

I listened to every statement Murtha made.

Murtha did exactly this:
1. Discussed housing prices
2. Discussed the problems of his District
3. Told the agents that they can't give him money to get legislature drafted and that is illegal
4. Told the agents that he wants to follow the law
5. Told the agents that they are free to invest in his district and that he would be appreciative of that
6. Told the agents that they don't need to spend a damned cent on this
7. Told the agents that he could speak kindly of them for investing in their business and that would work for him politically to show he is able to get business investments for his district
8. He even told them what is legal and that they are going out of bounds
9. Any sort of investments have to be dealt with legally and politically and that he needs to know details before discussing further
10. A few investments in his district will get the attention and everything has to be above board or otherwise people go to jail.
11. The people in his district will be supportive of investing companies and will want to advertise the fact and that Murtha was helpful. It's a good thing when done properly.
12. Introducing legislation is only legal when initiated by people in his district.
13. The LEGAL and ETHICAL way for a company to have legislation drafted is by investing in the district, lobbying the people of the district to initiate the laws and then Murtha can respond.
14. He gave examples of ways that this has been done successfully and unsuccessfully in the past.

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that.

What Murtha Didn't say:
1. He didn't take money to draft legislation
2. He didn't say he would draft legislation for investing in his district
3. He didn't guarantee the agents that they would get their legislation proposal supported by the people in his district.

Murtha was completely above board on the entire issue and educated the agents on the legal and ethical issues of lobbying.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2725397

[mmonk]

21. What needs to stop is factional fighting.

I'm not liking anything I'm seeing quite frankly since the public gave us this mandate against the war and corruption of the republican party. I also don't think our plan is going to work.

[MoseyWalker]

25. Maybe I've been reading for too long, but

this sentence really, really bothers me. What do you mean?

"I also don't think our plan is going to work."

[DianeG5385]

29. I think it's the DLC wing of the GOP fomenting dissent

They are so pissed they aren't in total control of the leadership that they let Carville off his leash!

[berni_mccoy]

22. Clarkie1, you are a great DUer, but PLEASE don't judge Murtha before you've seen the ENTIRE Tape

And read my analysis here: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/berni_mccoy/127

Too many good DUers are being ethically challenged by this, how should I say it, BULLSHIT.

[Clarkie1]

34. O.K., I'll watch the tape. nt

[aquart]

23. I'm fine with Murtha.

But then, I'd never quote Nader.

[Nite Owl]

24. The ethical questions are there

but I don't really think they are anything major, he answered them very well. The thing I don't like is his voting record. He is wonderful and courageous on the issue of Iraq but the rest of his record stinks especially on women's issues. Not fond of Hoyer either so may the best man win, whomever it is we should be behind him. I wouldn't like to be in Congress having to decide this one tomorrow.

[gulfcoastliberal]

27. You really don't like Murtha, so why don't you tell us how great Hoyer is?

Rather than post all the anti-Murtha BS?

[Clarkie1]

32. I respect Murtha speaking up on Iraq. I am disgusted by what else I have learned about him

recently. I don't know enough about Hoyer to have an opinion.

[DianeG5385]

28. Chill Clarkie1.

I don't know what else to say but this is a bunch of bunk.

[Clarkie1]

33. It's not bunk. nt

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. Yes it is. Tell us exactly what he did wrong? n/t

[Clarkie1]

39. He left open the possiblity of accepting the bribe in the future. nt

[dsc]

40. He was on the ethics committee

witness people offering and taking bribes, and did nothing. That isn't good by any means.

[Clarkie1]

43. And there's more, it's even worse and NOT all in the past.

He helped block changes in ethics policies that Democrats proposed last year. He has also been an astute backroom-deal maker known for trading votes for the pet projects known as earmarks. He has had family members who lobbied on issues under his control, and he was caught up in the Abscam corruption scandal more than 25 years ago, though he was never charged.

The leader of one watchdog group said Monday that Mr. Murtha’s record should disqualify him for the No. 2 job, particularly since Democrats campaigned so hard against Republican corruption and have promised to make new ethics and lobbying rules a priority.

“How can Americans believe that the Democrats will return integrity to the House when future Speaker Pelosi has endorsed an ethically challenged member for a leadership position?” asked Melanie Sloan, executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, a Democratic-leaning group that focuses on government integrity. “Representative Murtha is the wrong choice for this job.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/washington/14cong.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[dsc]

54. I am not happy with either choice

Murtha would likely blunt an ethical message on our part.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

35. Is it too late to pick Hastert?

[Clarkie1]

44. How about one of the newly-elected Democrats? nt

[A-Schwarzenegger]

46. How about you?

You're clean, right?

[Clarkie1]

47. There are cleaner Democrats in the House than me, why not chose one of them? nt

[bigtree]

37. bullshit

You're reasoning is 'no different' than the republican habit of smearing with innuendo when the FACTS don't go their way. Just decide someone is guilty and convict them with every statement they make.

Just saying he's guilty of something doesn't make it true, no matter how may threads you say it on.

[quiller4]

42. Murtha deserves the leadership

He never even faced charges after the ABSCAM sting. "Sting" is really the wrong term. ABSCAM was attempted entrapment.

Murtha's courage in speaking out against the war early on was a key factor in the Democratic victory.

Pelosi needs a loyal person in that position and she has chosen somebody she can trust. I've emailed the entire Democratic delegation from Washington state urging them to support Pelosi's choice.

IMHO Nader has seldom been right about anything.

[Clarkie1]

45. I agree with you on Nader, and Murtha's courage in speaking out against the war.

Too bad he did show the same kind of courage when he chose to help block ethics reforms last year.

[Rainscents]

48. I always repect your imput Clarkie1, however, you are wrong on this one.

You should read The Nation...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2970717

[Clarkie1]

49. Do you agree with Murtha's blocking of ethics reforms last year?

And from what I've learned of Hoyer in the Nation article, his behavior disgusts me as well.

Perhaps I should leave DU and register independent....but then I wouldn't get to vote in the primary, that's the only drawback.

[newyawker99]

57. Hi quiller4!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Grebrook]

50. I don't want Murtha as majority leader, he's socially conservative, I don't see what all the

hype about his is anyway. He spoke out against the war. Ok, so did Kucinich and most of the caucus? I don't know about Hoyer, but I would prefer someone more charismatic. Rob Andrews from NJ, a centrist from one of the Great Lakes states. I don't know who, but I'm not feeling this whole "Murtha is the Messiah" wave riding over DU. And I don't oppose him merely because he's socially conservative, but that, combined with a video tape basically showing him flirting with people who were trying to bribe him, makes me uneasy.

I'd just prefer someone else who won't be as polarizing. We've got Nancy for Speaker, who really cares about majority leader anyway? Murtha will block ethics reform

[wisteria]

56. None of those you mention are in a position to run.

As for Hoyer, he is a DLC puppet and will support staying the course in Iraq. Murtha has been a strong leader on this important front.

[skipos]

51. Here is the transcript, read it for yourself.

Amoroso: Let me ask you now that we're together. I was under the impression, OK, and I told Howard what we were willing to pay, and I went out, I got the $50,000. OK? So what you're telling me, OK, you're telling me that that's not what you know....

Murtha: I'm not interested.

Amoroso: OK.

Murtha: At this point, you know, we do business together for a while. Maybe I'll be interested and maybe I won't.... Right now, I'm not interested in those other things. Now, I won't say that some day, you know, I, if you made an offer, it may be I would change my mind some day.

[wisteria]

55. Hoyer is DLC, this is all about Iraq and Murtha can help lead on this

front. Please keep in mind that he was never indited or convicted of anything. It was 26 years ago. Frankly, if he doesn't make it I am afraid it is going to be business as usual with Iraq and or party. People voted for change not the status quo.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

58. nader was wrong. and so are you.

murtha refused the bribe. he was not even charged. i dont see your fucking point. we deserve to lose nothing.