I really hope that the purpose of DU does not become ideological purity...

[DeepModem Mom]

akin to that of our opposition now that we have achieved an electoral success and control of one of the three branches of our government. DU came into being in reaction to a stolen election, and has addressed for six years the consequences of that crime in the form of the damage done to our nation, and the world, by George W. Bush -- damage on a scale we could never have predicted back in the year 2000.

I know it's too much to hope, or expect, that the scale and degree of invective we have directed, rightly, at George Bush will not now be directed at such as Steny Hoyer. Or John Kerry or Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama or Rahm Emanuel, or even James Carville (who has shamefully turned his own public anger against one of our own) -- none of whom, at the least, is George Bush or Dick Cheney.

I've been at DU long enough to know two things: one, that the frightening but soul-enriching time here before an election, when we are united in support of any candidate with a D. after his or her name, and united in our common hopes and dreams, will end with the election; and, two, that posts like these are useless, if not counterproductive, and risk placing the poster in the boiling hot water with Steny Hoyer. But it's late at night, and I find myself typing.

I do wish we could be kinder when we disagree. I wish we weren't so hasty to hate our own. I wish we could give our own party a "honeymoon," even if the pundits and campaign professionals do not. I wish we could keep something of the feeling we felt when the House was called for us, and when Virginia was called for Jim Webb, giving us the Senate -- and some of the generosity and tolerance that preceded those moments.

George Bush still lives in our White House, and the tragedy in Iraq grows worse each day. But we are no longer powerless. We won a landmark election victory with Howard Dean and Rahm Emanuel, John Murtha and Steny Hoyer, Al Gore and Barack Obama fighting on the same side. I wish us the grace of the newly empowered, with our anger not turned against each other, but harnessed into more power.

[babylonsister]

1. I'm off to la-la land, but that's a nice post, DM Mom. I do wish, too. nt

[KingFlorez]

2. I hope for that too

Everyone here needs to understand that we must not lose sight of the real issues, especially at this time.

[TomInTib]

3. Well put, DM M...

[madrchsod]

4. i have been listening to npr today about the problems

that nancy is facing. her situation and that of the democrats is that no matter how pure we would like them to be they ain`t. nancy is backing murtha cause he`s backed her so she believes in loyalty to those who helped her because that`s how she learned how the game is played watching her father and brother. should she back the other guy who has done nothing for her? well in the real world of washington politics she isn`t going to do that no matter how we feel about it.

i gave up trying to convince others that this issue is complex,politicians are not pure,and if nancy loses on the murtha vote we are screwed. so i just gave up and posted the most sarcastic replies i could think of. they have to much work to do without du nipping at their heals..but.. i sure we not going to let them off the hook if they screw up.

[MADem]

13. You don't really think "if nancy loses on the murtha vote we are screwed" I hope

Hoyer has been Nancy's WHIP all this time--he went to the White House with her to accept Bush's limp olive branch. Sure, they duked it out for the Minority Leader job, and Nancy won.

Hoyer hasn't been a good whip, he's been a GREAT whip. Who do you think recruited a HUGE percentage of the incoming freshman? Hoyer. Who do you think contributed a load of dough to their campaigns? Hoyer.

As for Pelosi, Murtha is her friend, but she has had no problem working with Hoyer these past years. It's not like she doesn't know how to bark orders at him, or knows how he executes. It's just that Murtha has helped her in the past, when she ran for Whip and Minority Leader, and now, he's calling in his cards and asking for a bit of payback, and she's delivering.

No matter who wins the Leader position, it will be fine. No one will be talking about this matter in a few month's time.

[madrchsod]

19. a bit dramatic on my part

i`ll admit but if murtha isn`t picked then the righties will go on about how she lost...

[MADem]

24. Well, let them start flapping their gums, because as insiders predicted, Hoyer won.

In a week or two this will be a distant, foggy memory.

Murtha never had a chance. He had no leadership experience, ethics issues, and voted too often with the GOP. He called his dear friend Pelosi's ethics reform efforts "total crap" and that is a quote.

Hoyer had been whip for years, had worked to recruit, fund and campaign for a lot of the newer people coming to the House, and had sewn up his support before Murtha even expressed an interest in the job.

Pelosi demonstrated loyalty for her old friend, but she will have NO trouble working with the guy she's already been working with for years...Hoyer.

And only the "inside baseball" crowd give a shit about this election. I would bet if you showed photos of Hoyer and Murtha to the 'person on the street' most of them would think it was that Peterman guy from Seinfeld and Captain Kangaroo without his hat.

[bananas]

14. "i just gave up and posted the most sarcastic replies i could think of"

hear hear!
kudos to you, sir!
see my sigline!

[gumby]

5. Put on your tin-foil hat DeepModem Mom,

I don't think "we" won anything.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15582.htm

Smash the voting machines!!!! Now!!!

[mopinko]

23. i feel like i'm in one of those teenage thriller movies

where the daring heroes escape from the dark lair, and you think they are safe. then the crusty curmudgeon says to them- "don't you see they let you escape? now they are going to ......"

[Erika]

6. You couldn't even get dems to agree on the definition

of ideological purity much less form an opinion or purpose.

[Kiouni]

7. I've been reading a lot of this

"play nice together" postings and it has me wondering has it really gotten this bad? I mean no disrespect to you DM mom, your post was great, but how bad has it become for disagreements?

My only answer is that I personally will start interjecting more into threads when the debate gets to heated.

[ComerPerro]

8. If anything, liberals are the ones who are not welcome here

saying that you think Lou Dobbs is a pandering hack is enough to get you flamed repeatedly, and I was even called a cross-burner today.

[John Q. Citizen]

9. I'm with you, DeepModem Mom. But the attacks have been coming,

from Dems against Dems.

I haven't seen Howard Dean attacking any Dems.

I haven't seen John Kerry attacking any Dem.

I haven't seen Nancy Pelosi attacking any Dem.


We have some National leaders in our party.

We have Nancy Pelosi, the first woman Speaker of the House of Representitives coming in in Jan 07.

We have Harry Reid who will be Senate Leader in 07

We have Howard Dean who is the Chair of the Democratic National Committee.

I say we give them our support, give them the ability to succeed, and quit trying to second guess them.

But I'm not to sure that's what's happening. I see a power stuggle taking place, now that there is some power to struggle about.

[ComerPerro]

10. I see tons of Dems attacking other Dems

James Carville is attacking Dean, for example.


There are Dems attacking Dems everywhere.

Its the moderates, trying to purge liberals from the party.

[The Straight Story]

11. party fundies can get in the way of the party IMHO

I left mainstream christianity for the same reasons.

Litmus tests are fine, when used with caution and sensibility.

In this big tent we built we must realize that there is not a single vision which will be carried out in a pure fashion. It is a crusade which will take us time. Our country is still young, and progress is not always made in a single leap or bound.

We have no messiah to invoke immediate change to all things, we have only people who work hard and are imperfect.

Our hopes were dashed, but have been resurrected. The end times of the rulers we fear is near, but the day it all happens we know not. In the meantime we pull tdgether and do the best we can.

But we also need to stay the course, and correct those who wish to veer from it. I think DU is trying to that, although not always in a perfect manner.

At any rate - at least we have faith and a chance now. And while many may preach the correct ways and work to hold our leaders accountable, they too must realize that change is held back by time constraints and the politics of the system - just like in a corporation or a church.

I just hope we can all be patient and civil during that time :)

[Erika]

15. We need to "stay the course"

How funny. Dems never get along until priorities come up. Then they do great. Stop sweating the small stuff.

[MADem]

12. Yep, for a tolerant, diverse bunch there's on odd occasion a lack of tolerance and an unwillingness

to embrace diversity within the big tent. Being a moderate Democrat is not a disease, any more than being a liberal, populist, progressive or conservative Democrat is. I wish people would realize that.

I certainly wish people would occasionally visit the ON THE ISSUES website and CHECK the stances of the politicians they toss horseshit at before they repeat nonsense and lies, make stuff up, and get all dramatic to prove some obscure point that signifies little.

I also wish people would realize that we don't get to weigh in on this vote that will be taken today. Those legislators, frankly, don't CARE what we think. It's an 'inside baseball' vote, and has to do with quid pro quos, alliances, support given and received, and a whole load of other factors--but in this case, this leadership vote has NOTHING to do with what we, the voters, might like. Because, no matter which majority leader this citizen or that might want, they have the right to pick their own cat herder. After all, we voted them in to get some results, and they should organize themselves the way they see fit to get those results for us.

I further wish people wouldn't start new threads on the exact same subject as a hundred previous threads, just to pee on the tree and feel important. But I have a feeling that wish is a hopeless one!

Lastly, I wish this day goes by quickly. I've had enough of the Ali-Frazier hype in way too many Steny-Jack threads! Someone will have the job at the end of this day, and we can move on to more pressing matters.

[Swamp Rat]

16. Great point, but you do realise that there are reptiles among us, right?

And I ain't talking about the peaceful, Earth-born Lounge Lizards.

:D

[glitch]

25. Crikey! Your images are always worth clicking on. nt

:scared:

[Virginia Dare]

17. Politics is a nasty business....

you can't get anywhere in politics by playing nice. That is the reality of it. I have confidence that they (and us) will get together when it really counts. Debate is a healthy part of a good Democratic diet.

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. I can already tell we'll need many reminders

Good post. Ideological purity and being a party of tolerance does not compute.

But I do believe that one still needs to define parameters to their beliefs. As the first soi disant social pragmatist in America (I think Nancy Pelosi is the second) those parameters are drawn whereever there is a true threat to the public via health, welfare and safety. That's the point where my liberalism stops and my conservatism begins.

[BootinUp]

20. K&R

:kick:

[warrens]

21. You must be a freeper

Anyone who isn't ready to leave the Dems because Ned lost is a closet freeper.

(Just kidding, but there seems to be a large element here that would take the above seriously.)

[cascadiance]

22. I like being inclusive and receptive but for important battles we should be firm!

We should recognize that the fundamental problem that we deal with now that can't be stepped down from is corporatist control of just about every part of our society. I want corporations in control of business, but not my government, and I won't compromise on that end. I don't see that as a "moderate/progressive" debate. It is a fundamental part of our battle to regain our Democracy.

Therefore, though I want to be a big tent for people of many persuasions (and backings), I'm VERY picky about who I want to see be our presidential candidate in 2008, and who is leading our campaign strategy leading up to that. Therefore in my book those that have too many ties and allegiances to the DLC over the American people's interests need NOT apply. That's why I have a narrow set of candidates I feel worthy of consideration to the 2008 nomination who will put the people ahead of corporate and other well heeled special interests in terms of who they represent. That's why I can't support folks like Hillary, Biden, and perhaps even Obama.

Obama is an interesting case. For me, he's a prime example of why finding someone with a lot of experience is important. With a lot of experience, we have a lot of history to draw from to form a good opinion on how well someone might represent us. I'm not sure whether Obama's ties to the DLC are too much and would put him in the same compromised position of DLC allignment as someone like Hillary Clinton more obviously is. The DLC I think understands that, which is why I think Obama is being pushed now.

I might change my tune later, but with Obama's voting record on critical issues in many cases going with the DLC, I'm not ready to jump on his bandwagon.

Call that being ideological pure if you like, but I'm saying that for important battles that speak for the core of our party, we need to stand firm and not accept compromise. Other issue areas, I'm interested in finding common ground with folks. If you are compromising too much, you are also setting yourself up later to be a party that compromises everything for the sake of power, which is also an attribute of the Republicans, which leads to corruption as well. We bend ourselves with our own values like many religious right folks have with the Republicans which in many cases work against what arguably should be their values. When we bend those values, we compromise our own sense of values too, which leaves a vacuum of what we demand from our representatives, and we accept then more them doing whatever it takes to keep them in power, rather than working for principles that we support and understand.

[stellanoir]

26. Amen sister . . .ummmmm

or should I say mom. . .? :)

K & R'd

Let's keep the peace and civility even when we disagree.

Enough with the circular firing squads.

[frustrated_lefty]

27. Naw, let the purges begin! and