Whoa there, partner, Nevada senators are just friends

[Pale Blue Dot]

Nevada's senators -- each winning a leadership post in their respective parties -- pledged Wednesday to stay close on issues of mutual interest.

But not too close.

"He and I just like each other, and I think we set a good example here in the Senate," Majority Leader-elect Harry Reid said of colleague John Ensign. The junior senator was chosen Wednesday by Senate Republicans to head their campaign fundraising operation.

"He's a Republican, I'm a Democrat, we work together on issues that are important to the state of Nevada. And I wish other people had the same nonaggression pact we have," Reid told reporters. "It's not a 'Brokeback Mountain' situation," he added, referring to last year's film about two gay, cowboy lovers.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/15/nevada.senators.ap/index.html?eref=rss_latest

Hardee har har, Harry. :grr:

[Maven]

1. Why was that even necessary?

I don't get it. x(

[MADem]

2. Well, before you get too mad at Harry, let's pretend that John Ensign is JANE Ensign

...and Harry said "It's not a "Bridges of Madison County" situation....would you be angry then?

He's basically saying they are friends, they cooperate, they work for the good of their state, but they aren't so close as to be "secret lovers." And the article does go on to DETAIL their sincere friendship:

"Their relationship will not be affected," Jack Finn, a spokesman for Ensign said of the dueling leadership roles. "It is a genuine friendship and a genuinely positive working relationship, and most importantly the relationship is too vital for the good of the state to allow it to be compromised."

I can't comprehend your offense. Perhaps I'm missing something?? I think it's a healthy sign of the times that an old fuddy duddy like Harry would even make that sort of analogy.

[Pale Blue Dot]

4. Yes I would. It's completely unprofessional and demeaning. nt

[MADem]

7. Well, I wouldn't look at it that way, especially if he and "Jane" WERE close friends.

But hey, mileage varies, I guess.

[Pale Blue Dot]

9. It's the freakin' U.S. SENATE.

This isn't grade school. This is supposed to be a dignified body, and our Democratic leaders better start acting like they have some respect for it and each other.

If I said this about one of my male or female co-workers, I'd be in deep shit. And rightfully so.

[Bluebear]

10. And respect for their constituency. nt

[MADem]

16. Oh, PLEASE. It was a press conference. It wasn't read into the Congressional Record.

The statement wasn't even made on the Senate floor.

I think you're overreacting, frankly.

[Bluebear]

19. It's one of those "if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand" things.

Really, it is.

[MADem]

21. We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see it the way you do. NT

[Bluebear]

23. You're not gay, are you?

You have been told, repeatedly, why it might bother a gay person. Yet you insist on explaining how you see it differently. Why is that?

[Bluebear]

25. .

[Maven]

6. I'm not sure that's a valid comparison, MADem

Brokeback Mountain was a unique phenomenon--a mainstream film about a gay romance. So unique, in fact, that "Brokeback" has been used colloquially to mean "gay." Reid used the term half-jokingly, half-defensively: "we're close, but we're not gay or anything." I find it hard to believe that a male senator working with a female senator from the same state would be similarly inclined to half-jokingly deny having an affair with his colleague.

I just don't see why this was necessary.

[MADem]

13. Funny how people can read the same thing and see it a different way

I read it to mean "We like each other, we will work together, we are close, but we aren't THAT close...after all, I am a Democrat and he is a Republican." I didn't read it to be defensive or insulting to gays, I read his analogy to mean they weren't POLITICALLY intimate; that neither was about to change parties.

I did think the use of that title was apropos to their gender, though--a reference to Bridges of Madison County wouldn't have worked with JOHN, but it would have with Jane. If he had said, "I like the guy, but I'm not about to marry him," would that have been better? I know people who say that sort of thing all the time, and they aren't homophobes. Heck, I've heard Barney Frank use that sentence.

We don't know the full context of the remarks, either, or the tone of voice. Absent any sneering or snarkiness (which Reid is NOT known for), and upon rereading it, I still don't find it offensive.

You see it differently. We'll have to agree to disagree I guess.

[JI7]

11. the thing is that he wouldn't have said it if it was about a female

but he got a need to get defensive at the thought that he could be in a gay relationship. making it worse is the fact that there were no suggestions he was in the first place.

it was an out of nowhere comment.

[Pale Blue Dot]

12. Exactly. nt

[MADem]

17. How do you know? Reagan and Thatcher used to tease each other all the time.

Reagan could have fun with it because there was no way he was gonna bang her, and old Margaret had a crush on Ronnie.

I dunno. I'm just not reading as much into this as some, it appears. I don't think he intended any insult or even any "defensive" statement. But the only one who really knows is him.

[JI7]

18. there was no suggestion of a sexual relationship in the first place

in which the response while still offensive might have been understandable.

but it has been a problem everywhere plus on DU . it's similar to the "is Karl Rove gay" stuff.

i don't think Harry Reid hates gay people. but there is a certain homophobia that people are not aware of. they are accepting of gays mostly including full rights. but they are afraid of being seen as gay. as if there is something wrong with it.

i'm not really sure how to explain it.

as for Harry Reid i think the best would be for a discussion of these things. i don't think he gets it that it's offensive. if explained he might listen.

[MADem]

20. We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

I just don't see it. I actually think it's a positive step that a conservative Mormon could joke about a relationship with his close political opponent in a lighthearted way. Ten years ago you would never have seen that analogy being used. The Republican would have beaten up Reid for suggesting that he might be gay.

I'm just not approaching it from your same viewpoint. I don't think Reid has a mean bone in his body, and I don't think he was being sarcastic, either. I also don't think he was being defensive, or trying to put down gay people. He was using a well-known--hell, a blockbuster--film about two men in a secret relationship as an analogy to explain the degree of closeness between the two political rivals who both have leadership positions within their respective parties.

That's what I think. But clearly, you don't. Well, we can't always agree on everything I guess.

[JI7]

22. i agree that he wasn't intentionally trying to hurt anyone or be mean

i do hope you are right in your explanation. but it still wouldn't hurt for Reid to sit down and talk about it with people and see why it would be offensive even if he didn't mean it that way.

[MADem]

24. Why would that matter? NT

[Duncan Grant]

38. I can't think of a single situation where I'd say, "it's not a Brokeback situation".

And while I appreciate your efforts to think about this in new ways, may I remind you that no one but no one has ever said, "It's not a 'Bridges of Madison County' situation". No one would get a "Bridges" reference - but "Brokeback" - people get that.

I think "Brokeback" is a code phrase and we all know what the reference means, whether we like it or not.

[ThomCat]

40. Absolutely! "Brokeback" has become a reference

for gayness. It's definitely a code phrase.

[Erika]

3. And to think this is the Dem open minded view

Remember, Reid is Mormon and gays are excommunicated in their church. Very disappointing.

[Bluebear]

5. What an utterly repulsive thing to say, nt

[Kerrytravelers]

8. What a dumb remark. Actually, more than dumb.

It's downright insulting, especially considering that a large number of Nevada's GLBT community most likely voted for him. What a slap.

[sandnsea]

14. Yeah, Harry's the first to make the joke

How come nobody has complained when Robin Williams and all the late night and other comedians have said this? I've been wondering why there was no complaint for a while now. Funny it has to be someone like Harry Reid saying it before it gets a reaction.

And oh, btw, between this 'joke' and Rangel's Mississippi 'joke', can we dispense with the Kerry attack now?

[Bluebear]

15. Robin Williams is not the majority leader of my party.

How's that for starters?

And I couldn't stand "The Bird Cage" either.

[sandnsea]

26. It's a slur, or it's not

Doesn't matter who says it. I didn't think turning a serious story into a joke was very respectful, nobody else seemed to mine. You can't blame Reid if it's been considered an accepted joke for a year.

[Bluebear]

27. 'nobody else seemed to mine.'

Except for several posters in this thread, yet you insist it's 'accepted'. By whom?

[sandnsea]

28. In the last year

I haven't seen any posts about brokeback jokes since the movie came out - hell I've seen brokeback jokes at DU and nobody ever said anything. I thought about asking gay folks whether it was offensive to them, but decided I'd probably get it twisted around and used as an attack against me because that's what usually happens. Now all of a sudden Reid says it and it's a catastrophe. I think people choose when to get offended about more often then not.

[Bluebear]

29. "Catastrophe"?? A little dramatic, no?

>I thought about asking gay folks whether it was offensive to them, but decided I'd probably get it twisted around and used as an attack against me because that's what usually happens.<

OK, then.

[ThomCat]

30. I've seen a few threads where peopel called you out.

Have you ever gone back to figure out why?

I don't think people were twisting anything. I think they were reacting to what was there.

[sandnsea]

31. "I think people choose when to get offended"

I know why it happens. Like the previous poster focusing on the word "catastrophe" (twisting) instead of the point of the post which is that nobody at DU has complained about a brokeback joke until yesterday.

People choose when to get offended.

And I'm the one with the guts enough to point it out.

So there you have it.

[ThomCat]

32. You can see yourself as brave and gutsy if you want.

Don't be surprised if other people see things differently.

I personally haven't seen a single brokeback joke until recently. When that movie came out everyone was almost universally hailing it as a breakthrough. There were a huge number of threads about how it should win awards. No jokes about it that I recall.

If there had been any anti-gay jokes using that movie, then given the support that movie generated I think people would have been more likely to jump on it than they've been otherwise.

I think you're manufacturing a perspective to justify yourself. You're the brave one and everyone else is wrong. :eyes:

Have fun with that.

[sandnsea]

33. As always

Deny reality and base an argument on the denial. No, there've been no brokeback jokes at DU, not a one. :eyes:

Easier to beat up sandnsea that way.

Yeah, have fun with that.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[ThomCat]

34. Oh yeah, beating you up is my goal.

Because you're just that important. :rofl:

[Bluebear]

36. Paranoid much? nt

[sandnsea]

41. Uhm, you prove my point

I haven't said anything nasty AT ALL and yet you've attacked me, personally, twice now. Happens to me all the time, no paranoia about it. And yet, *I'm* always the bitch. :eyes:

[Bluebear]

42. You have a problem with people 'twistting' your words & 'attacking' you

Why do you suppose it happens to you all the time, if not paranoid about it?

[NMMNG]

35. How classy

Not. :puke:

[Nikki Stone1]

37. Well, that's a cringer of a remark.

Why they felt compelled to make it I'll never know.

:(

[WildEyedLiberal]

39. Ah, the great progressive hero Harry Reid

So now he can add "homophobe" next to "anti-women's rights" on his Super Duper Progressive Cred Sheet.

And yes, I say homophobe, because he said this without any prompting or suggestion - clearly, the idea that he and another man might be "close" in "that way" makes him uncomfortable enough that he has to qualify his heterosexuality without being asked. Like frat guys who slap each others' butts but vociferously insist that they aren't "queers" even though no one has "accused" them of such. That's homophobia, and so is this... unfortunate... statement.