Anybody catch Amy Goodman on Paula Eva Brahn Zahn last night?

[Postman]

Talking about US Army Lt. Wahtada, who is the first commissioned officer to refuse to go to Iraq.

Zahn tried to imply that he was a coward for refusing to go (she should be ashamed to be on the same stage as Amy Goodman, a real journalist)

Wahtada stated his case very well. Was against the war because of the lies, immorality, unethical. Says he took an oath to defend the Constitution, not to follow unlawful orders.

Paul Reichoff was also a guest. He was saying that Wahtada was wrong, that he should have followed orders. He shouldn't be judging what orders he should follow and which he shouldn't.

Another Iraq war veteran was also a guest who chimed in saying that Wahtada DID have that right and the duty to disobey unlawful orders and that what Wahtada did was correct in not going and that this is what our country is lacking - moral courage -

Paul Reichoff proved himself to be just another Machiavellian. It didn't matter that the war was based on BS, you're still supposed to follow your orders.

Having served in the military I understand where he is coming from, but this war is different. It IS a war that is immoral and a war where deception and lies were used to start it and to carry it out to this day.

People do have a duty to examine their conscience and make informed decisions about who/what they are serving by participating in this disaster.

[rodeodance]

1. thanks. i missed it. always glad to see Amy out there telling the real truth.

[seabeyond]

2. i thought if orders illegally soldier is required to disobey. why

english got i trouble for torture. she was suppose to say no. puts soldiers in an impossible position

[SpiralHawk]

3. The ancient tradition here in North America is: free will + reponsibiliy

An exerpt, with permission, from Odyssey of the 8th Fire

http://www.8thfire.net/Day_130.html



The walkers awoke slowly from their tents to a gray, drizzly day on the land at Whispering Pines Bed and Breakfast.

We brewed coffee and huddled by the fire. Last night as we sat and talked by this same continuously burning fire, Grandfather made a point about free will. the bombing of the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma, and regimented groups, such a armies.

He said he felt there had probably been many factors that contributed to the deranged souls of the men who perpetrated the bombing. He speculated that the way many individuals abdicate their free will might have been a factor in the psyches of these men.

He said that, for example, in modern armies men are under orders. They follow without question the dictates of their commanders. In modern armies it is understood that there is a chain of command, and that you will do what you are told by soldiers who outrank you. You surrender your free will to the larger purpose.



That's not the native way of North America at all, Grandfather said. He explained that as he understood it, the warrior tradition on this continent -- what he speaks of as Turtle Island -- is that each individual is responsible for his own actions in life and in warfare.

He elaborated: “A leader in life or in battle can lead only to the extent that they are an example, or to the extent that they have the power of persuasion.

“No one does anything just because someone else says to do it. That would not be respecting the human attribute of free will. That's just making excuses for abdicating your own authority and responsibility.

“Each individual must make his or her own decisions,” Grandfather said, “and have his or her actions judged on that basis. We native people have always known that you are responsible for your own actions. Therefore, you must exercise free will and decide for yourself what your actions will be. The same in war as in all of life."

As we sat by the fire and talked, we wondered aloud whether the perpetrators of the Oklahoma City bombing might have gone in another, a more honorable direction in life if they had been raised in a culture where free will was fully respected, and personal responsibility understood and expected. How could they, with any sense of responsibly, have taken so many lives and caused so much suffering?

[irislake]

4. Remember the Millgram Experiment

the Iraqi "war" was illegal and immoral and destroyed the good reputation of America in the world. Kids should be taught to think for themselves rather than get starry-eyed every time the American flag is waved in their faces from birth on ad infinitum.