"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or

[DemocratSinceBirth]

security

-Benjamin Franklin...


I see a mindset among some here that it doesn't matter how a politician feels about individual rights as long as he opposes the Iraq war. This is short sited and dangerous. The war will long be over, as all wars "good" and "bad" are , and we will still be fighting for civil rights for gays, reproductive rights for women, and borders that are open and (safe)...

My individual rights are not up for plebiscite and I will resist any party or person who believes they are. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin a person who trades some rights for other rights will end up with no rights at all...

[hobbit709]

1. 100% Agreement here

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. It's Disturbing....

I have seen posts that suggest it's elitist to support individual rights at the expense of advocating a liberal economic program or advocating an end to the Iraq War. They are not mutually exclusive.

[treestar]

2. IA, giving up one's rights to the government does not make one

any safer from criminals or terrorists, but it does create a new and unlimited source of danger: from the government itself, which has far more power to make life miserable than the chance of being the victim of crime or terrorism - things you can take steps to protect yourself from on your own. Yet there is little or nothing you can do to protect yourself from an all-powerful executive.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. Ben Franklin's Dichotomy Was Pretty Stark

And it's easy to caricature but the essence of what he saying is correct.


But I have seen the illiberal voting records and attitudes of certain leaders and analysts excused because they oppose the Iraq War...

If opposition to the Iraq War is one's solitary benchmark they might as well embrace David Duke because I know no more outspoken opponent of the war than him...


I see a disturbing trend that we if like a leader's take on an issue or issues that are important to us we ignore all contrary evidence about that person. And conversely if we don't like how a leader stands on a particular issue or issues we ignore all the positive things about him or her...

These double standards and spinning makes my head hurt....

[dubykc]

5. Absolutely 100% Correct