Sacha Baron Cohen - The Real Borat - Finally Speaks (Rolling Stone interview)

[grizmaster]

For those who seemed to be missing the point of the Borat character, here's the backstory.

He wasn't making fun of Kazakhstan, he was making fun of American ignorance.



http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/sacha_baron_cohen_the_real_borat_finally_speaks

from pg 2 of the online article-

"I've been in a bizarre situation, where a country has declared me as it's number-one enemy," he says, forcing a wry grin. "It's inherently a comic situation." He stops, then backpedals a little. "I mean, it's always risky when you don't go down the normal route." Pause. Maybe he's taking himself too seriously now. "I wish I would have been there at the briefing that Bush got about who I am, who Borat is. It would have had to be great."

When Baron Cohen first heard that the Kazakh government was thinking of suing him and placing a full-page ad promoting the country in The New York Times, he was editing his movie in Los Angeles. His reaction: "I was surprised, because I always had faith in the audience that they would realize that this was a fictitious country and the mere purpose of it was to allow people to bring out their own prejudices. And the reason we chose Kazakhstan was because it was a country that no one had heard anything about, so we could essentially play on stereotypes they might have about this ex-Soviet backwater. The joke is not on Kazakhstan. I think the joke is on people who can believe that the Kazakhstan that I describe can exist -- who believe that there's a country where homosexuals wear blue hats and the women live in cages and they drink fermented horse urine and the age of consent has been raised to nine years old."

In actuality, it turns out that Borat is a far more damning critique of America than it is of Kazakhstan. The jokes that Baron Cohen mentions above -- and all the rest about beating gypsies, throwing Jews down wells, exporting pubic hair and making monkey porn -- are clearly parody. But the America that Borat discovers on his cross-country trek here -- rife with homophobia, xenophobia, racism, classism and anti-Semitism -- is all too real.

"I think part of the movie shows the absurdity of holding any form of racial prejudice, whether it's hatred of African-Americans or of Jews," Baron Cohen says.

[Irreverend IX]

1. Did they ask him if he felt he exploited the Romanian villagers?

Not in the online excerpt, at least. It'd be nice if someone had the backbone to call him on his methods of "recruiting" interviewees.

[greccogirl]

4. Another money maker trying to look noble.

[grizmaster]

6. why do you assume

his humorous approach to letting bigots expose themselves is only motivated by money?

[trumad]

17. I'm a money maker...ya gotta a problem with that?

[Bucky]

32. I'm not enough of a money maker. And yes, I have a big problem with that.

But apparently Toyota has a bigger problem with that than I do.

[mondo joe]

18. Another money maker?

Like Michael Moore?

The Dixie Chicks?

Nancy Pelosi?

Howard Dean?

Any number of DUers?

[grizmaster]

20. don't you know people only do the "right" thing when it's profitable?

:sarcasm:

[The Count]

62. Was he noble when he didn't make all this money? because Borat has been

a character in UK, US for some years now....So, I need to know, at what point in success does one cease to be noble?

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. I'd like to know that, myself.

[The Count]

22. How exactly were they expoited? They were very happy while the show was

only on UK television (same poor peasants "exploited"). They only figured out the "exploitation (they were paid scale as extras) once the news of the movie takings reached their lawyer.

[grizmaster]

24. I suspect the vulture lawyers

are behind all the BS about the town being "taken advantage of".

[grizmaster]

39. Why are you assuming they were "exploited"?

I didn't see anything in the movie that suggested they were exploited.

And as for how much money they were paid, a couple hundred dollars is a huge amount in that part of the world. So in real dollars wouldn't it be fairer to say that the Americans he paid a couple hundered to were more exploited? (if you still want to call that exploitation).

[Irreverend IX]

48. Well, of course they don't reveal it in the movie...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=415871&in_page_id=1770

"They claim film-makers lied to them about the true nature of the project, which they believed would be a documentary about their hardship, rather than a comedy mocking their poverty and isolation.

Villagers say they were paid just £3 each for this humiliation, for a film that took around £27million at the worldwide box office in its first week of release."

I can kind of understand lying to the Americans featured in the movie, but deceiving poor and persecuted Romanian gypsies is low.

[The Count]

58. Romanian gypsies????Are you aware that Romanians and gypsies are 2 different

etnic groups? Gypsies, like Jews are living in many countries all over the the world - Romania, US etc - except they do not have a state of their own. That the peasants featured in the movie were NOT gypsies, but Romanians?
As a parenthesis on bigotry - such remark in Romania would get you burned at the stake - but here it merely reveals your ignorance and bigotry.
No wonder you dislike Borat!

[Irreverend IX]

59. Uh, they were gypsies.

Gypsies living in Romania. That's what I meant by "Romanian gypsies;" I know Romanians and Roma are two distinct ethnicities.

http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1688572006

This article and others mention the ethnicity of the villagers, which is one of the reasons for their marginalization.

[The Count]

61. I believe they are wrong.

That village, the names, the appearance of those people - there's nothing gypsy about that.
The only true statement is that gypsies are marginalized in Romania - and that's the understatement of the year.
Extras do not usually get a share of the Box office. (I'd rather they do, than 20 Century Fox, but....)

[Irreverend IX]

63. Well, it wouldn't be the first time a journalist didn't check facts properly.

You seem to be acquainted with that part of the world, so you probably know better than that Scottish reporter. The villagers were paid as extras but many of them played significant roles and interacted with Borat at length, which is much more than the term "extra" usually denotes.

[SmokingJacket]

2. That's what I got out of it.

The Romanian villagers came off looking quite a bit better than the American rodeo attendees.

[grizmaster]

5. the movie is rather effective indictment of the worst of America

When fictitious exaggerated ignorant bumpkins come off better than wealthy educated America it says a lot about how much work we still have ahead of us.

[helderheid]

8. same here

[The Count]

30. Bingo! Borat's mission accomplished.

[sniffa]

3. did he do the interview in bLack-face?

because reaLLy there's no difference. :eyes:

[The Count]

26. His Ali G plays black - and gets racism/condescent attitudes back -without black face

I found it quite poignant.

[Bucky]

29. In Britain the same prejudice is directed at all immigrants--Indian, West Indian, Arab, E. European

To their credit, Brits are a lot more color blind than we are when it comes to hating minorities.

[grizmaster]

37. equal opportunity xenophobes

whoda thunk?

[Dutch]

64. What are you saying

That blacks are the only ethnic group singled out for hatred in the US?
Or that "Brits" use identical prejudicial terms or hold identical prejudicial views about all minority ethnic groups?
Both suggestions are equally absurd.

[Goblinmonger]

34. Actually there is a BIG difference

and it lies in the heart of what satire is.

Blackface was done to mock the blacks. The jokes were there to make black people look stupid and cause whites to laugh at all those things they knew were black traits. In short, clearly not satire.

Borat was done not to mock the foreigners but to mock the Americans. We are supposed to laugh at the ignorance and racism of Americans not that of Borat and his "home country." It is satire. The object of the joke is actually the audience. They need to reevaluate the way the see the world. Blackface NEVER asked the audience to evaluate their stereotypes; it meant to continue it.

That is a HUGE difference.

[sniffa]

36. yeah, i know

i'm mocking a few peopLe

[npincus]

9. loved the flick, got Cohen's point

and laughed my tush off. I'm surprised at the reaction over here- it is SATIRE, and very clever at that.

[grizmaster]

10. it's vulgar, rude, disturbing

and the most piss-your-pants funny movie I've seen in years, AND it articulates how bigoted America is by letting the bigots speak for themselves.

[helderheid]

11. I am surprised too

[Ian David]

14. Why did Trya Banks dress-up in a fat suit?

Tyra Banks Experiences Obesity Through Fat Suit
Supermodel Wears Suit on Blind Dates



Nov. 4, 2005 — Supermodel Tyra Banks has made a career out of turning heads with her voluptuous body, sexy strut and skimpy outfits. When she donned a "fat suit" that gave the appearance that the slender Banks weighed 350 pounds, heads turned, too. But this time, she faced laughter, stares and nasty comments.

"The people that were staring and laughing in my face — that shocked me the most," Banks said. "As soon as I entered the store — when I went shopping — I immediately heard snickers. Immediately! I just was appalled and, and and hurt!"

Banks wore the fat suit for an upcoming episode of her talk show, "The Tyra Banks Show." In addition to shopping and riding the bus wearing the suit, she went on three blind dates, which will also air on the show.

"One of them was so outright rude and hurtful!" she said of her dates.

Banks asked her date what his parents would think if he brought her home. He responded: "They'll be like: 'What's wrong with you?' "

More:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1280787


Yes, there is a difference.

Trya Banks in fat suit = Good.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=1280787

Mike Myers in a fat suit = Bad.
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/archives/2006/01/10/fatsuits-blackface-and-comparing-oppressions/

Borat in a Kazak Suit = ?

[HaggardsMethDealer]

12. Should read the background of the guy...

Went to Cambridge and his close relatives are experts on psychopathology or something like that...(I dont exactly remember)...all of his characters started out as a way for him to expose people's prejudices as silly. Should see the Bruno character he does where he exposes the fashion industry as the shallow dimwits they are. He's a true artist trying to turn conventional wisdom on it's ear and get people to think and be more self deprecating...he's trying to get people to examine their own racism and see it as ridiculous.

[LostinVA]

16. wikipedia has an excellet article on him

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacha_Baron_Cohen

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. "Do you think fashion saves more lives than doctors?"

Fashion Guy: Yes.

Classic Bruno.

[IA_Seth]

47. Bruno is the best...

He interviews this heroin-lookin dude about fashion (i think its the one quoted below), and he has the guy agreeing to such contradictory statements I was rollin.

The man is funny, no matter the character.

[The Count]

55. Bruno is his next movie. Studios are in a bidding war on it.

Ali G movie was made by people who missed the point that the character is not the story, but the tool - so, not funny at all. But Bruno has lots of potential.

[Deep13]

13. Isn't Sacha Cohen an Olympic figure-skater?

[Jed Dilligan]

28. Yes, a very attractive female one

But she is unrelated to the British comic as far as I know.

[The Count]

56. She's not a Baron either. Nor a Count.

[Ian David]

15. Some of my prior posts on Borat

Even Mark Twain needed to be corrected once in a while
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2717466&mesg_id=2723448

A couple interesting reviews of Borat
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2717466&mesg_id=2723320

The Village of Glod: Let's find a way to help them. Mr. Cohen should, too
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2717466&mesg_id=2722946

I see it differently
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2717466&mesg_id=2722393

I do have some misgivings about the way the movie exploited the villagers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2717466&mesg_id=2722181

Tell that to Allen Funt (what a moron!).... NOT!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2717466&mesg_id=2722279

Borat is making fun of US, not of Kazakhstan.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2717466&mesg_id=2717515


See also:

Frat brothers sue Borat for exposing their racist beliefs.
Topic started by gatorboy on Nov-10-06 11:07 AM (38 replies)
Last modified by Solon on Nov-10-06 01:37 PM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2674227

Who wants to have a Bar Mitzvah at Country West in Tucson, AZ
Topic started by IanDB1 on Oct-21-06 08:36 PM (0 replies)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=316&topic_id=995

[grizmaster]

19. As you point out

in that first post, he certainly has stirred an interesting debate and self-examination. In that the movie is a smash success.


And if the movie is flawed in going to far at points, I'd still consider it a gem, if a flawed gem at that.

[CJCRANE]

21. Surely the "Real Borat"

would be a real Kazakhsani journalist?

Sacha Baron Cohen is just an upper middle-class guy who enjoys playing obnoxious characters
(he may be funny but I don't see anything particularly educational about his act).

[grizmaster]

23. You can't see the satire

in a jew playing an anti-semite as a vehicle for people to let their guard down and reveal their bigotry?

When I caught the movie the audience left discussing bigotry in America. In particular that they didn't realize how bad it still is. And they were laughing at their ignorance. Sure sounded like they got some education from the movie.

[The Count]

27. Watch this outtake if the movie was "too subtle" for you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvUJIT6rins

[Recursion]

42. If you don't see anything educational, you're looking at the wrong half of his interviews

They aren't about him or Kazakhstan, they're about Americans. Sure, the things he says are absurd and comical, but what's sobering and educating is how normal Americans who aren't in on the joke react to him, and how many of the vices he is jokingly attributing to Kazakhstan he is revealing as actually being present in the US.

[The Count]

25. What's real in Borat - Salon article

http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2006/11/10/guide_to_borat/print.html



What's real in "Borat"?

Also, if you search Borat on you tube, outtakes are histerical (and stronger than the movie)

Borat: patriot rally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvUJIT6rins

Borat at a republican event

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiwrYYHTLkM
Guide to hobbies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea7mgEknJoQ&mode=related&search=
plus this line from this interview is hysterical:
"At first, Kazakh censors wouldn't let me release this movie because of anti-Semitism," he tells the assemblage. "But then they decided that there was just enough."

[ProfessorGAC]

31. Well, Duh!

It needed to explained that it was about american ignorance? Duh?

And, let me be the first to say, that i don't think it's terribly original, very clever, and the trailers indicate to me a ham-handedness.

I'll wait until it's on one of the cable movie channels i already pay for. And, i certainly don't want to read the "deep analysis" of the next Andy Kaufmann. Yeah, i get it. I just don't think it's funny.
The Profesor

[Celebration]

33. I saw the movie

I like raw humor. But it didn't seem funny to me. Kind of interesting. But funny? Not really. I just thought it was social commentary, and not really that humorous overall.

[grizmaster]

35. It might not be high-brow entertainment

and I hate cr@p like Jackass, but I haven't laughed that hard in years.

[The Count]

40. Actually, Roeper tried the Kaufman put down, but Harold Ramis set him

straight: Kaufman wasn't about anything - except for the joy of playing those characters. Cohen uses the characters to prove a point. If you want more facts for your conclusion without shelling money for a ticket, go to you tube, search Borat. You may be surprised (unless you made up your mind)

[Shakespeare]

49. THANK YOU. I'm SO sick of hearing the Kaufman comparison.

Because it absolutely does not apply. There was no point to Kaufman's characters (except to make you laugh). Cohen's Borat is clearly out to expose hypocrisy, bigotry and other forms of small-mindedness.

[The Count]

54. If you want a parallel, it would be Colbert, not Kaufman

And it's clear many are uncomfortable with his targets.
I watched a movie in a full theater (Monday morning) and everyone was laughing hysterically - but not louder than me.

[grizmaster]

57. agreed, it's like comparing Jackass to Lenny Bruce

both can be labeled vulgar, but it's ridiculous that you have to even point out the difference in purpose (or lack thereof)

[Recursion]

41. I totally agree; the point is not Kazakhstan or Borat

The point is that he can get Americans to agree to some absolutely stupid, racist, misogynistic, and homophobic statements. The butt of the joke isn't Kazakhstan, it's the US and Joe Q. Sixpack.

[Rockstone]

51. Denial

the fact is the people complaining were people who were misportrayed.

The news events I heard were first the Khazakstan government concerned about the misportrayal, and then the Romanian villagers.

Nobody is saying the film is not funny. Nobody is saying that it does not expose peoples prejudices. Nobody is saying it is not a box office hit.

What is questioned here is why were people hurt or perceived to be hurt by this film?

So far it was said to be lust for money, although I don't see the Khazak govt. suing cohen, rather they dumped money on CNN to try to repair the perceived damage that was done to them.

A second question is why are posters so defensive that they feel the need to impune those asking tough questions?

[grizmaster]

60. The people were "perceived" to be hurt

because some Americans are too stupid to realize it's American ignorance that's being satirized, not Borat's fictional hometown and fictional family and fictional community members.

Put it this way, I've never seen anybody complain about how Monty Python portrayed lumberjacks, or knights, or accountants, or pet store owners when they used ridiculous portrayals of people in those categories.

Do you think Monty Python owes something to lumberjacks for how they were portrayed? Or do you realize they were satirizing people's homophobic stereotypes?

[Batgirl]

43. I thought it was horrifying and hysterical

and might go see it again.

[grizmaster]

44. I think I might give in

and catch it again at a cheap matinee this weekend.

I can't remember the last time I laughed that hard. Even two hours later I found myself starting to giggle remembering some of those scenes.

I bet it will be a couple of years before I see a teabag (of the tea variety not the Borat hotel variety) without bursting out laughing.

[Batgirl]

45. in a just universe

the mustache/testes line would become a national catchphrase sweeping the nation.

[grizmaster]

46. LOL- it already is in my warped universe

[Shakespeare]

50. The scene at the yard sale with the Barbie Doll.

What have you done to this lady!?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[The Count]

52. Borat on Hannity & Colmes & other talk shows

from the interview link

http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2006/11/14/day-two-borats-most-hilarious-visits-to-talk-shows/

[grizmaster]

53. Sacha Mania, cool

missed the link ealier, thanks