Got caught running red light on a camera

[treestar]

It appeared I was guilty so I just paid the fine. You can even see a video of your car going through the intersection on a website.

It just had a big-brother feel to it.

I get that I was guilty and should pay the fine, and am not interested in contesting it in any way, or even arguing against it, just that my point is that it just had this big-brother feel to it.

[bryant69]

1. Anytime the Government looks at you

it has a big brother feel to it - on the other hand, in a large industrial nation it's inevitable that they will look at us from time to time.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[shadowknows69]

Bad treestar

I have an eight inch scar on my shoulder and a permanently messed up back from two seperate times someone else decided to run a red light or stop sign. Got to break a window with my head too. Please be careful out there. A lot of people aren't as lucky as I am every year.

[treestar]

6. I knew that in spite of my disclaimer, someone would miss the point.

Do you assign yourself to a group of people who never do any traffic violations, but are always the victim?

I wasn't even aware of it (so it was inattention). So you could have done it a zillion times and never happened to have been caught.

[shadowknows69]

11. Yeah actually

I faithfully obey the traffic laws at all possible times. I didn't miss your point but I also wasn't going to miss the chance to remind you that inattention can hurt and it can kill. Don't confess if you don't want to be judged.

[treestar]

18. You could have done it and not be aware of it is my point

I faithfully obey the traffic laws at all times too.

Some people can't pass on a chance to be judgmental, I guess.

[buzzard]

35. I have always obeyed all traffic laws except I sometimes speed just to

keep up with others, but one night several years ago I was driving home and stopped at a red light and then drove straight through it. I realized almost immediately what I had done and all I can think of was that at the time I was thinking of it as a stop sign, I was tired and had a lot on my mind and it was not intentional.

[Xithras]

59. If you broke the law without being aware of it...

That itself is a problem. It means that you were preoccupied with something and weren't paying attention to the road conditions around you. Being innattentive is not an acceptable excuse for placing other peoples lives at risk (by running a red light without noticing, you basically just admitted that you weren't paying attention).

[buzzard]

63. I didn't actually run the red light I stopped looked and for some reason

treated it as a stop sign. I at no time put anyones life at risk there was absolutely no one around, after I did this I really had no idea why I did it it is not something I have ever done before confusing a red light with a stop sign. I have been driving for 30 years and have never had a single ticket or been involved in any accident except for when a deer hit my car. I was obviously preoccupied and it bothered me that I did this because I really couldn't explain it to myself but as i said I stopped first and then treated it as a stop sign.

[Xithras]

73. What you really need to ask yourself...

If you were so preoccupied that you didn't even notice the light, what else didn't you notice? Would you have registered a pedestrian stepping off the curb? Or a kid crossing on a bike? You might say yes, but by your own admission you can't explain how you failed to register the light. If you didn't notice one major road hazard, how many others might you have missed?

That's why inattentiveness isn't an excuse. In my life, I've known four people who have lost their lives in auto accidents. One was drunk. The other three died to to inattentiveness (either their own, or that of another driver).

[msmcghee]

68. The first traffic law . .

. . is to always be attentive when controlling several thousand pounds of steel hurtling down the street at high speed.

[Norquist Nemesis]

2. They had a piece about this on the local news last night

They're ticketing drivers for speeding around here with the same equipment. They take a pic on the approach to get the driver then another to get the rear license plate. It's a $375 fine and it doubles with a second offense. It's supposed to bring in $1.3 million (IIRC the figure). AND they're expanding it.

They have cameras all over the place. I don't like it either.

[treestar]

5. For speeding it could be problematic

How does the photo show speeding? I guess as a film it might, but how? You still need evidence on feet per second and how far the car was shown to go in the film.

For a red light it is much clearer but in some cases, it might not be.

But they had the license plate and the car and it going through the intersection and the light all in magnificent color. Just had a weird feeling.

It was on election day, too! I must have been distracted.

[ContraBass Black]

12. It only takes two photos.

If the distance between your car in the first and second pictures is greater than the most you could have traveled under the speed limit, you were speeding.

[Norquist Nemesis]

24. Radar trailers

There is a sign that shows you your speed. The ones I've seen, the numbers flash if you're speeding. Apparently, the driver can see the flash when the pic is taken and some drivers are trying to find ways to get around it (like spraying license plate so it's overexposed and can't be read).

They're taking four pics of both the approach and departing passes, with and without flashes. That way, they seek to get at least one clear shot of each. The pic is mailed out with the ticket and it is a mandatory court appearance.

[SouthernBelle82]

60. Yep

On our new license plates they have some type of bar code on it too. So if you run a red light they can see that too. I haven't seen cameras though so I don't know. The only time's I've run a red light is when it's impossible for me to stop in time.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. They Are Trying To Pass A Law Like That In Florida...

It's meeting a lot of resistance...

I can see both sides...

Red light runners are probably the most dangerous of the driving scofflaws...

[treestar]

8. It's not always done on purpose, you know.

I don't really object to it but wanted to discuss the big-brotherish feel to it.

[havocmom]

39. On purpose or not, still very dangerous

Think you may be missing the point of some replies. They aren't beating you up, just stating some facts and opinions re inattentive red light runners. Meaning no malice while not paying attention is no comfort for those who may be injured or killed, or for their loved ones for that matter.

While I don't like the big brother thing in MOST instances, the PUBLIC ROADS are not a place one has any rights to privacy. So long as the cameras get a picture of who is actually driving the vehicle rather than just the license plate, I really think people should just realize they are on PUBLIC property, engaged in activities which DO INVOLVE the safety of the PUBLIC and not in their own homes where their behavior affects no one but themselves.

Your car is not your castle and the public roads are not behind your own closed doors. :shrug:

[sandnsea]

4. Britain has cameras that yell at you

In parks and stuff - throw that trash away, stop running into people, you're gonna' poke your eye out!! Okay, not that last one, but still. I don't know why people want to live under a microscope, creeps me out.

Why'd you run a red light? :spank:

[treestar]

10. That would be miserable.

Talk about a nanny state.

It was inattention. Why do so many assume it is on purpose?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

17. Inattention can actually be worse.

In some cases......

[treestar]

19. Anybody can do it by inattention.

And be unaware of it.

Don't see how doing it on purpose could be "better."

[sandnsea]

28. Oh there's a difference

I've never run a red light or stop sign in my life and I'm 49 years old. If you did it on purpose, like because it was 2 am and there was no traffic, that would be much better than inattention.

Still, shit happens, I understand that.

[treestar]

34. Actually you have no way of knowing that for certain

You could have done it and been unaware of it, and no one noticed. I would say I have never run one, either. But now am more aware that it could happen if you aren't paying close enough attention. Makes you much more aware of how driving takes a certain amount of attention that we don't always give it.

[shadowknows69]

41. Some of us take very great care

to make sure we are always aware of what we're doing when we're driving, thank you very much. In fact when I drive cab I avoid getting in several accidents a day only because I'm paying more attention seemingly than most of the drivers on the road.

[sandnsea]

47. I know I've never had a ticket

And only been in one accident where the driver ran into me. So make of it what you will.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

38. It's not better, it's still stupid and breaking the law

But I also don't know of many people who make the decision to intentionally run a red light when there is a good chance someone could hit them and not look both ways before they do it.

[seabeyond]

44. for gosh sakes NEVER break the law, right up there with the ten commandments

hm... lol lol. i really idd not know what a bad person i was... (well ya i did, the fundies have been clear over the years) until just this last week of posts. i did not know the laws were the all wise, as some seem to interpret. i hae actually had the audacity to cross streets outside of crosswalks, confident in my ability to look both ways, AND not get hit by a car or put ANYONE in danger.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

49. Nah, you still shouldn't do it

Because with the way stupidity is going around today, I don't trust the majority of people to be able to judge whether or not anyone is coming through......the smart folks should set the example.

[seabeyond]

55. you dont TRUST... i should NOT do it. cross a friggin street all by myself

the smart people should set the example

this is what is sooooo damn scary


i cannot willnot live this way. not trust fellow man in such a way. just as i cannot willnot do it to fellow man on moral or christian value like the cult of christianity spreading hate across the nation.

i cannot will myself to be so blindly ignorant. i am not capable

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

56. Oookay........

Leave your life in the hands of a non-voter who thinks Bush "is getting a bad rap and seems like a nice guy and OH MAH GAWD TURN IT UP IT'S JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE'S NEW SONG!!!!!!"

crash.

[Jed Dilligan]

53. No better than drunk driving.

Am I supposed to shrug off the danger you created by being "inattentive" just because you (I assume) didn't have alcohol in your system?

Why do some people who create hazards get a slap on the wrist while others pay the price for all the ills of society?

Why do people get to say that someone who drives after one drink should go to prison for life, while your much more dangerous behavior would prompt no such response?

I'm not saying you should be punished severely, but it's puzzling how the state-sponsored moralists pick and choose their targets.

[sandnsea]

26. I asked

I didn't assume anything. I only post the spank smilie in jest, to tease.

[seabeyond]

7. what happens to the child whose parent watches, catches, punishes

him every step of the way?

i know it is not and wont in later years be the way i raise my children. there will be things i see that i will purposely ignore and allow him to get away with because it would be unhealthy to him otherwise. we are setting this society up for a greater mess than we have ever seen.... all justifying one way or another, the greater good, or christian value. but imperfection is no longer allowed


to be enlightened is to be without anxiety over imperfection

[Rosemary2205]

66. Apples and oranges

I for one appreciate that fact you are old enough to look both ways and make sure you are safe outside a crosswalk. That has absolutely nothing to with putting someone in a 3 ton machine at 60mph that has the potential of killing someone should the driver become inattentive.

It's my bet this little bit of big brother will alter treestar's behavior for at least a little while and he/she won't be driving inattentive any time soon. -- at least I would hope so.

[seabeyond]

81. so the next time the lite is green.... going 20 to 30 and 5 feet from line

lite turns yellow..... treestar will be damn sure to slam on those breaks as hard and fast as he can to be sure he isnt in the middle of the intersectin when it turns red and possibly take his picture. you know what htis is NOW

a "potential" for danger that is no longer the good for society as a whole as the car behind him hits him expecting him to go thru cause it is yellow after all and he shouldnt stop, he should go thru.

just saying, the potential is there for a greater potential of accidents.

what may seem good may not bring the deisred effects, or they may. action reaction. pavalovs dog.

[RebelOne]

9. I was caught once. They sent me a photo of my car.

I knew I was guilty so I paid a fine of $70. And the worse part of it is that you can't pay by check. It has to be by money order.

[treestar]

14. I know. I just paid it. It was $75. But it just felt weird, having this film

of my car in possession of an all-seeing big brother. (At least, as to that intersection).

[Xithras]

62. Wow, only $75? Red light violations are $390 here.

$350 goes to the state of California, $40 goes to the city. By the time you get done paying your "court appearance fees" and "fee processing fees", you're usually well over $400.

[SoCalDem]

70. A friend of mine paid a $500 fine for a cigarette butt

her PASSENGER dropped a cigarette butt out the window (on asphalt..and it was OUT)....

My friend heard the "whoop whoop", pulled over and whammo.. a huge fine.

[Xithras]

75. $500 in SoCal? She got off easy!

With the number of fires you all get at that end of the state, I'm suprised she wasn't charged with conspiracy to commit arson or something! :)

[SoCalDem]

78. Yeh. I know.. but it was IN TOWN and on asphalt

She just happened to go down the wrong street.

[Rosemary2205]

13. I love these things and would not mind more of them

Let the cops worry with shootings and kidnappers. Let the cameras remind aggressive drivers that endanger people's lives to act right. We put enough of these out there maybe the "children" will quit their antics. And if they don't and get caught pulling this stuff multiple times then they should do hard time. When an aggressive driver maims or kills someone they are no different than the other thugs we lock up.

Sorry, nothing personal treestar. I've just seen too many people end up hurt beyond belief because some jackass thought getting to their destination 45 seconds quicker was worth endangering the lives and and livelihoods of everyone else around them.

[treestar]

21. That wasn't the way I was thinking, but whatever

My point was the big-brother feel to it.

[Rosemary2205]

61. I understood your point, probably did not make my own clear.

Used carefully bigbrotherhood can be very useful. IMHO. Your example of the red light cameras is IMHO a PERFECT example. Every year aggressive drivers kill/maim more people than drunks do. These people are HIGHLY dangerous. The proof is out now that these cameras and the expensive tickets that go with them are drastically altering people's behavior at these dangerous intersection. One intersection near my home had 418 accidents in 2002 with 40 deaths, 112 addition needed lifeflight to a trauma center. The camera's were installed in 2003 and by 2004 there were only 88 accidents at that intersection with 3 deaths -- by 2005 it was only 35 accidents. This is just one intersection....

The camera's don't take anyone's rights away and have clearly saved MANY lives/disabling injuries. Certainly there needs to be appropriate checks and balances on the use of technology but I don't see the need to fear this kind of bigbrotherhood. I see it as extremely helpful, freeing up police who would otherwise be stationed somewhere near the intersection to help control the idiocy --- and yes I know I'm probably a little overly harsh on these drivers - I have seen too much to be kind -- as the saying goes, sometimes it's more loving to slap a hand than hold it.

Well, anyways, I did get your point. :)

[seabeyond]

23. pulling this stuff multiple times then they should do hard time

wowo.... what a world you see. i am getting more and more scared listening to the rhetoric of some on this board. i tell ya, just shoot them and then you will never have to deal with their sorry asses again

[Rosemary2205]

57. What you don't understand is

aggressive drivers kill/injure more people every year than drunk drivers. IMHO it's time we recognize that habitual aggressive drivers are criminals who blatantly put the lives of other people at risk. There are people who have lost their licenses because of immature driving and yet continue to drive without a license. IMHO at that point the only way to get their attention is jail time.

I'm not advocating shooting anyone. IMHO that was an assinine comeback.

[napi21]

15. I don't want to pick on you, but did you learn anything?

I've seen more red light runners here in Ga. than any of the 4 states I've lived in! We were nearly killed by one who was driving a BIG PU truck (3/4 ton dully)who never even slowed down at the intersection! The light changed, and my husband had already started moving when I saw, out of the corner of my eye, something moving very fast. Iyelled wait! He slammed on the brakes and I doubt the driver of the truck even knew what he had done.

I don't like being watched all the time either, but I don't know how to stop people from doing this sort of thing. If it saves a lot of accidents by teaching people (though their wallet) this isn't something you should be doing, then I guess it's not such a bad thing.

[treestar]

25. Yeah, that there are a lot of people who believe they never violate the

traffic laws inadvertently. Maybe you are more dangerous since you think you are incapable of inadvertently going through a red light?

I don't remember doing it so I certainly did not do it on purpose.

[napi21]

50. Not me! I can't drive anymore. When I did drive, yes, I broke the speed limit laws.

I wasn't completely nuts, breaking them with insane speeds, but 10 MPH over the limit is still breaking the laws. The one thing I was always very careful about was traffic lights. I suppose it was out of fear, because bad things happen when two moving objects collide.

[BlueJazz]

16. While I'm not a big defender of traffic fines, the main reason all this stuff....

...has come about is:
1. More Money (of course)
2. It seems a LOT of folks run red lights nowadays. I almost have been hit several times.

Having said all that, Fines are Bullshit. There should be other "Punishments"
..maybe community service or whatever.

The idea that a poor person has to pay a large share of his/her weekly salary, compared to a wealthy person who just laughs it off is grossly unfair.

And to those who say "Life isn't Fair" ...I say..It's up to us to try to make it more fair.

[treestar]

27. True, they should be scaled to income but that would take so much

more bureaucracy and involve the state looking into your income.

The big brotherish nature of it would be worse.

[haele]

20. You might have ran the red, or in reality, gone through a yellow -

Check to see what the timing of the lights are and if they've changed since the camera was put in.

There was a huge scandal a few years back in San Diego concerning the red-light cameras; the company providing the service was apparently getting a "cut" depending on the amount of tickets they could get written and had knocked two-three seconds off the yellow cycle to catch more "red light runners". In one major intersection, county traffic engineers had decided that a 10-second yellow was required for safety as well as "a clear intersection" due to 1) being near a freeway on/off ramp 2) a limited vision curve coming into the intersection and 3) a major mall - all on the intersection of two 45mph stretch of streets with few traffic or street lighting; the red-light company reset the yellow to 6 seconds leaving a lot of drivers stuck in the middle of the intersection when the light turned to red.

This actually ended up causing more accidents, as drivers would speed up to make the light or not see cars stuck in the intersection as they came up the curve to cross the intersection.

I'm not saying you could get out of the ticket - but if the light cycle has been changed, you do need to see what you can do to raise a stink due to the safety issue.

Haele

[treestar]

29. Interesting thought - another thing was that it was outsourced to an

out of state company - somehow seemed wrong that the people who benefit from it are from another state.

Can't wait to see these things coming from India - then suddenly there will be a protest to the big-brother nature of it!

[The2ndWheel]

22. We've been attempting to take chance out of life for thousands of years

Big Brother will come, most likely, for perfectly sane reasons. It won't come all at once, but over multiple generations. That's why we're going to have a problem.

Like was said in another post, look at the UK. The most watched society in the western world, if not the planet.

Like was said in another post, with more and more people, more order and control will be required for society to function.

[treestar]

31. Yeah, that's true. There's still a lot of open space, but earth is

limited.

Though eventually there could be a point where big brother just has too much data to be able to function, too.

[The2ndWheel]

48. That's why we have computers

You're right though, big brother can't escape entropy either. But that's why technological power will increase the amount of information able to be stored all the time. However, you're right again, at some point it won't be able to function, no matter how advanced it is. Entropy always wins.

Not that much open space either. These days, someone/something owns it.

[leftyladyfrommo]

30. We seem to always be on camera anymore. Except at home.

And some people have cameras in their homes.

It is very "big brother" and it bothers me a lot. We simply don't have any privacy any more.

[treestar]

43. Yeah, it's as if the least common denominator is assigned to us all

It is assumed we will commit a crime if we can get away with it and that evidence will be needed.

Knowing where everyone is at all times is a temptation for whoever has to solve crimes. Yet it is worth it? Interesting question.

[Kerrytravelers]

51. That is my issue. We're always on camera.

I understand the reasons we have cameras everywhere, and I have no solid arguments against them. The pro-camera argument can beat me every time. But I still just don't like that my every move is recorded somewhere.

I house sat for a wealthy couple while in college. When I was walking through the home, I kept hearing these clicking sounds from the vents. Upon looking, I discovered camera that actually trace all movement within the house. It was really creepy. I wasn't doing anything wrong, but those cameras made me nervous. I can imagine the tape of me squinting, looking in the vent and my horrified reaction. The man's father is a famous NYC art dealer and they have lots of expensive pieces in their home. They also have many other pop culture artifacts in their home. So, I get the cameras, but still... creepy to feel multiple cameras on you at all times- even while sleeping.

[Lurking Dem]

32. Funny story.

My husband is the registered owner of my son's car. Son ran a red in Savannah (we live in Nashvegas) and they mailed a ticket to my husband here.

THAT was a funny phone call! He sent my husband twice the cost of the ticket. I asked him why he said, "I doubled it for stupidity!"

[treestar]

40. There was a part of the form that was for assigning the blame to another

driver.

So far at least they can only get the car, so they are dependent on giving the ticket to the "car." In some households it could even create a fight. Imagine a few teens trying to blame it on the others.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

33. Thank your lucky stars you didn't cause an accident.

Pay the ticket and stop running red lights. You can always demand to hand your check to a live person if it makes you feel better.

[treestar]

37. I said all that. My point was the big brother feel to it. I mailed it in.

[Ian David]

36. Red light cameras cause an increase in rear-end collisions

On the other hand, they decrease the number of broadside collisions.

Statistics are somewhere on the internets, and can be found with the google.

[treestar]

42. True, sometimes it's actually safer to keep going through a yellow

than to come to a sudden stop. In Calif. they had the good idea of having a second or two of All Red.

[Xithras]

69. Only if you're speeding.

The average yellow light is 6-8 seconds in length.

Researchers have demonstrated that it takes about 3/4ths of a second for our brain to comprehend a yellow light and begin to respond, and about another 3/4ths of a second to move our foot from the gas and begin braking. According to Edmunds, at 60MPH (quite fast for a surface street with lights), the average American car can be brought to a halt in 138 feet, or 3.1 seconds. That provides us with a total braking time of 4.6 seconds at 60MPH.

So no, I don't buy the argument that a 6 second yellow is too short to stop a vehicle in.

[seabeyond]

46. yes.. but that would be reason over blind following of law

i actually pick up speed a tad when passing someone to get it done faster to create distance, (safeness) and out of curtesy.

[GliderGuider]

45. Note to all philanderers

Do not run red lights or speed if you are not where you're supposed to be. A red light camera or photo radar can ruin your whole day...

[Jed Dilligan]

54. Actually, some guy sued on that very basis

might have actually made his day when he won.

[Sapere aude]

52. With so many people not obeying traffic rules now a days it is getting more dangerous to drive.

The only way I see it slowing down is that people feel they will get caught if the disobey the rules. I don't think there are enough cops to cover all the areas needed so I can live with the cameras. As the number of ass-hole drivers goes up so to does the number of big brother tactics increase in proportion.

[AZBlue]

58. We have them all over for both speeding and running red lights.

I think they are great. They help save lives and since we don't have enough funding for the police department as it is, gives them the opportunity to focus on other things while also taking care of traffic violations.

As for Big Brother...well, don't break the law and they won't be videotaping you. I don't feel it's Big Brother-ish at all.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. Well, I'm glad you own up to it.

There was some goofball who did the same thing a couple of months ago and there was a big flamewar because he kept trying to weasel out of it.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

65. I was in Switzerland 20 years ago, and they had them there then. And,

yes, it feels like Big Brother.

[madinmaryland]

67. My wife has been caught twice both those here in MD.

$75 each time. Didn't have those in CT.

Not much you can do about them, because the picture tells all. It's hard to contest it, when they have a picture of you doing it.

:shrug:

[slackmaster]

71. Your honesty is commendable

Next time don't risk that stale yellow light.

[Bake]

72. To all you faithful traffic law obeyers

Please stay in the right lane so I can get around you when I exceed the speed limit. That's all.

Thanks,

Bake

[Xithras]

77. No way

It is SOOOO entertaining to sit in the left lane on I-5 and put along at 65MPH. People are incredibly friendly, and they all apparently think I'm number one! :evilgrin:

[Bake]

80. So it's YOU who likes to "lead the parade!"

I knew it!

:rofl:

Bake

[seabeyond]

82. lol lol lol n/t

[Book Lover]

74. And the camera company ususally gets a cut, too

It is very Big Brother. Do some looking into old issues of Car and Driver; they have had some very good reporting on how accident rates rise and stay higher in the majority of places where these cameras are installed, and where all the money goes...

[Xenotime]

76. Freepers love these cameras.

[Orsino]

79. They were doing this in Germany in the early nineties...

...minus the Web. People just got tickets in the mail, along with photos detailed enough to ID drivers.

[ComerPerro]

83. Oh give me a fucking break. You broke the law. Why should we care?

[Horse with no Name]

84. Someone could make a LOT of money

by creating a clear paint that goes over your license plate that scrambles the letters when videotaped.:evilgrin:

[seabeyond]

85. wouldnt that be fun

bah hahahah. lol lol hwnn... i didnt bad w i was such a girl until being around all these goodie to shoes, llol lol. really i did not. actualy i said the same thing being around all the fundie goodie to shoes i had never experienced in life. maybe i am just too honest about my bad. anyway, i like that idea.

[dysfunctional press]

86. can we see too?

care to give out a url...or is too much personal info required...?

i was sitting at an intersection in chicago one night a couple weeks back(peterson & western) and someone got their picture taken for the very same thing...