Should we be Done With The South?

[bryant69]

There was an aritcle at Salon the other day about whether or not we need to keep fighting to win in the South. The question is also near the center of the Carville - Dean debate.

My gut reaction is fuck the south (and I live here). The South and the Conservatives have made an alliance to fight for what they believe is the "real America." But you add up all their descriptions of what a "real American" is and you end up with a picture that looks a lot like a white southern conservative male. New Englanders and Pacific citizens can't be real Americans - neither can immigrants, non-Protestent Christians, or other ethnic minorities. Liberals of any stripe can't be real Americans.

Let's stop coddling the South and pretending that they are the real American. Such a strategy is just going to screw us in the long rung. But of course i could be wrong.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[DemocratSinceBirth]

1. How About All The People Who Live There, Support Us, And Will Be Left Behind?

And the Dems lose their majorities in both houses if they write off the south...

[kerry-is-my-prez]

10. There's certain states that they should fight for and others to forget.

It looks like Virginia would be a good state to start working on. South Carolina - don't waste the money.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. VA,FL, And NC Are Purple States...

eom

[liberaldemocrat7]

23. The Southern conservative has destroyed lives since the 18th century

Southern conservatives have ruined people's lives since the 18th century with cheap labor exploitation, religious persecution and a laissez faire philosphy of government that kills people.

[Vorta]

58. Yeah, I remember that book, 'Banned In Richmond"

Southern conservatives have ruined people's lives since the 18th century with cheap labor exploitation, religious persecution and a laissez faire philosphy of government that kills people.


Everywhere in the nation and the world, this is the history. It has nothing to do with race or religion, it's about human nature and the cultural evolution of our civilization. You can't accurately hold the South any more accountable than any other place.

Cuba had slavery until 1892 if I recall correctly. It's just the way things were done back then, not this evil attribute of a single culture.

[Bridget Burke]

83. Didn't Yankees exploit cheap labor, too?

I think the Robber Barons were big fans of laissez faire.

Point me to instances of Southern "religious persecution." Loudmouthed evangelists might be annoying--but the Nativist (anti-foreigner, anti-Catholic, anti-Jew) movement had Northern roots.

[Clark2008]

29. So are Tennessee and Arkansas

[DemocratSinceBirth]

36. My Bad... Actually Arkansas Is Blue For Now

eom

[Vorta]

77. The Carolinas and inland South is the new retirement destination

In addition, the South is still bending over backward to attact industrial employers and call centers. All of this adds up to a future in which the demographics of the South change radically.

South Carolina in particular is drawing a particularly well educated and well heeled transplant group, many of whom are actually returning to places where their grandparents lived before the World Wars.

[peaches2003]

2. Agreed

I live here, too, (unfortunately) and you are exactly right in everything you say.

[Selatius]

3. If you want to be seen as a champion of workers, you must fight wherever they are

That includes states like Mississippi, which has no minimum wage of its own except the federal minimum wage.

We would not ask this question if presidential elections were decided by popular vote. In such cases, every individual vote really matters regardless if the state leans one way or the other. It is the sum total that counts, not the region in which that vote originated.

If proportional representation were instituted in the lower House, it would be true as well, as gerrymandering would be eliminated entirely.

I live in Mississippi, and the problem with these people is they're fucking ignorant as all hell, and the local news media and the corporate news media have imprisoned them not in prisons of stone and steel but of ignorance and fear of the unknown. The solution, naturally, is to liberate them.

[SteppingRazor]

4. Disagree ... a populist moderate Democrat can easily win in the South...

and we should give up no ground to Republicans, anywhere. If an old-school populist message can drive the GOP out of its Southern base -- and I believe it can -- it'll mean the end of Republican Party majorities in Congress, permanently.

[filer]

20. I agree with you.

Brad Henry beat the crap of of Ernest Istook in our governor's race and is a feasible candidate against Jim Inhofe (Idiot, OK) for the senate race in '08.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. The South Isn't A Monolith...

Florida is part of the south but its demographics are dramatically different from, say Alabama or Mississippi...

[Vorta]

59. And need we remind anyone that Rick Santorum is from PA? That California is loaded with crackers?

[rudy23]

120. THANK YOU!!! n/t

[Jamastiene]

195. "Crackers?"

What do you mean by that?

[elehhhhna]

6. Ridiculous. We just turned TX22 BLUE.

Granted, Texas feels more Western than Southern but what a silly idea.

What ya gonna do? Secede? What, exactly, does being "Done with the South" look like?

[W_HAMILTON]

7. I live in a Southern state, too

It seemed like our state (SC) was one of the few with no -- almost none? -- big Democratic pickups. People just are different here. I don't think there is anything that can be done to change it. Some people buy into the Fox News hype, and some don't. Democrats in Congress can make things better for most people in this state, and the majority of people would still think they are evil. Some people just aren't reasonable. You don't NEED the South to win the government; at worst, you could try to make more headway in possible swing-states (FLA, maybe VA in the coming years). Whether people like to admit it or not, some states are just not going to be friendly to Democratic candidates, no matter what you do.

[SteppingRazor]

15. I just can't agree that nothing can be done to swing the South...

books like What's the Matter with Kansas? and Foxes in the Henhouse set up a viable plan to retake the Bubba vote. Ignoring this plan means ceding valuable congressional seats and presidential electoral votes. Adopting it requires relatively little money, just a change in tactics. And besides, morally and ethically, it's a lot more honest to stand up for all working class voters than just the ones that happen to be in a blue state.

[W_HAMILTON]

24. I'm not saying stand up for them, the same type of workers are in both blue/red states

I'm just saying that even if you fight for them, and help them out more than a Republican Congress/President, they still won't care. Their brain just isn't wired that way. They believe Democrats are evil, they love Fox and all their personality (maybe not Colmes), and they don't care whether a Democratic Congress/President would really be better for them. They believe it won't, and apparently nothing can be done to change that mindset.

[SteppingRazor]

30. Here's the part I disagree with:

"Their brain just isn't wired that way."

No one's brain is wired to believe anything. You aren't, from birth, a conservative or a liberal. Therefore, your mind can be changed -- it may be difficult, but it is possible. The books I pointed out in my previous post both have plenty of ways and means to get the job done. It may be difficult, but very little that's truly worthwhile is easy, no?

[W_HAMILTON]

173. Maybe it's a semantics issue

No, of course I didn't mean that they are genetically preconfigured to be the way they are. So, no, technically I guess they aren't "wired" in that sense.

But when you are raised a certain way for most of your life, it's not going to be easy to abandon your way of thinking. Especially if you don't want to abandon it.

Someone else mentioned that people would change if you get Fox News off the air, or other rightwing-leaning broadcasts -- but no. That's not the case. Fox didn't create these people, these people were already around, and Fox knew that they could build a news brand around catering towards their views.

[Bridget Burke]

87. Which "they" are you talking about?

I'm a Houstonian. My Rep is Sheila Jackson Lee--re-elected with no trouble at all.

Where do YOU live?

[conscious evolution]

137. Their brain just isn't wired that way.

Bullshit.
They,no,We, are not 'wired' that way.They are PROGRAMED that way.Help do something to crush the right wing media and the riech wing wing religous fanatics from spreading their hate message and you will see a change,not just in the south,but everywhere.
What is that old computer programmer saying again? GIGO=garbage in/garbage out!


edit to add: The only reason Georgia is red is because of diebold.

[Alcibiades]

72. We should be done with SC

at least. I'm from Columbia originally, though I'm in Durham now--three hours north, but what a world of difference. In South Carolina, it all comes down to race. When the crackers voted Democratic, Blacks voted Republican. Now that Republicans have a lock on the bubba vote, Blacks vote Democratic. Maybe the dynamic will change one day, but so long as snake-handling, crypto-racist, don't cotton to book-learnin' types outnumber progressives by such a wide margin in the Palmetto State, we'll have to write off SC, as sad as that makes me.

You should also add NC to your list of southern states we can shave off. Lots of Yankees are moving here, and the number one source has been the deep blue state of New York.

[JeffR]

8. As a Southerner, I'd say the South is every bit as real

as the rest of the country. And it's insulting to see the South constantly written off as conservative. It may be the stronghold of the Republican base, but there are a lot of progressives and moderate Democrats in the South. Why should they be abandoned?

[William769]

9. Educate, educate, educate!

I'm a firm believer that ignorance can be corrected. I wouldn't write the South off.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

11. I selected must keep fighting...

and the reason being is ideological in nature. I don't think that fighting for the South will change votes today or necessarily tomorrow, but I think dems and progressives should fight for, to steal a phrase, the hearts and minds of those in the South. Two reasons. Number One: Like it or not we are still the same country. Number Two: Given current population trends by the later part of the 21st century, the South will be more heavily populated than the north.

I came here as a staunch republican and I have had my battles here and I am sure that I have ticked off a person or two. But the people who have engaged in respectful dissemination of ideas have had, daresay I, a considerable effect on me.

Don't 'fuck' the South...there is a lot down here worthy of 'non-fuckage'

sP

[bryant69]

16. I don't think we can win though

And while we are fighting to win their hearts and minds, we will end up becoming more like them. They will like us if we become more like them.

Bryant

[ProdigalJunkMail]

25. not all things in the South are bad

and not all things conservative are bad...there is benefit to be had in both camps and that is why so many people fall in the middle. I think that it is not so much about changing minds that are set in certain things but more about finding common ground...and there is some (in fact a lot) if people would get the arrogance and pride out of the way, stop calling each other 'hick' and 'yankee' (and that CAN be a derogatory term) and talk...

sP

[bryant69]

31. OK

ONe side, Southern Conservatives, Fights tooth and nail to eliminate everybody who doesn't think like them. The other side, liberals, tries to understand the other side and get along and understand. What's the end result?

I know full well that Yankee is a derogetory term around here.

Bryant

[ProdigalJunkMail]

35. conservatives don't try to eliminate anyone that isn't like them

the problem is that the don't respect them and don't want to listen to them...they think that their ideas are flawed and not valuable. They cannot handle having their idea challenged so they just want to say no one else is worth listening to. I mean, there are SOME people that would eliminate those who don't think like they do...but that number is terribly small.

sP

[bryant69]

41. How many conservatives buy Ann Coulter's Books?

Ann Coulter is very clearly eliminationist. Obviously there's a difference between being willing to carry out those plans yourself.

Bryant

[ProdigalJunkMail]

46. and most of the people that I know

who read her book think the whole 'wipe out the libs' mantra of hers is hyperbole and don't subscribe to it themselves. I bought a copy of the Koran, but I am not a muslim...

sP

[Penndems]

43. "I know full well that Yankee is a derogetory term around here."

"Confederate" is also a derogatory term around here. I heard that shit from Pennsylvania Republicans when I lived up there. Those g-d people couldn't stop fighting The Civil War for five seconds.

BTW, those very same people referred to themselves as "Yankees".

"Write off the South"? Y'all have got to be kidding me. Every Southern state has a Democratic Party that's working its asses off to bring the South back to its native political home. Posting threads writing off this region of the country doesn't help matters any.

[bunkerbuster1]

109. EVERY southern state?

You obviously didn't witness the so-pathetic-it's-not-funny Goobernatorial race here in Georgia. Cathy Cox and Mark Taylor and their respective posses couldn't stop flinging shit at each other, and once the primary was over, Cathy took her ball and bat and went home.

And my local county's organization was little better than this.

I can't speak for the other state, but Georgia's got a lot of heaving and purging to do before they can mount a credible effort to win a lot of hearts and minds around here. For fuck's sake, they are too wimpy to take down Zell Miller!

[Penndems]

118. Absolutely right - Georgia DOES have a lot of heaving and purging to do

It's not a lost cause, however. Didn't we win two or three Congressional seats in The Peach State?

The South can go Democratic - one person at a time.

[longship]

12. "Fifty State Strategy"

Not 38 State Strategy.

[porphyrian]

13. This poll is entirely too artichoke. - n/t

[951-Riverside]

17. Anyone who tries to break up these united states for petty political reasons....

should be shot for treason.

That is all.

Good day.

[NRaleighLiberal]

18. MUST keep fighting! NC is purple shading to blue.....

as a transplanted RI'er, my original desperation is becoming much more hopeful. We need to do it with ideas, positive energy, communication...knowledge!

[Blackhatjack]

19. R U Kidding? The South is coming around, albeit slowly...

... If there is one thing Southerners understand, it is lying and scandal. They don't appreciate it either.

There are lots of Dems in the South, making a difference. They have been marginalized in the past because the poll numbers looked so heavy in favor of Repubs. However, the South will reject the politics of corruption, and the pessimism of conservative fundamentalists is spreading beyond the plate spinning self-appointed fundamentalist leaders.

You will recall that the Moral Majority created by Jerry Falwell died on the vine, and promoters of his ilk constantly have to create "new" fundamentalist organizations to take their place. They died because they were rejected.

There is not only hope in the South, the South could once again become the Democrats stronghold if the leaders of the Democratic Party are smart enough to pay attention to the change in tide taking place right before out eyes.

If you want to gauge the change in the South, pay attention to North Carolina --a state which could not be more supportive of the military, which Bush has appeared with on numerous occasions on tv, and a state currently represented with 2 Republican senators. During the last election campaign cycle, Bush had to fly in under cover of darkness, to meet fundraisers in "private" events that excluded the press, and flew out again without a public comment. He did that because the State opinion of Bush is falling off the table.

The Democrats need to follow the Dean plan, and spend money in the South, and they will reap benefits they could not have imagined even a year ago.

[kentuck]

21. The South is a little slow...

but they usually come around.. :)

[KharmaTrain]

22. What's The Fixation About The South?

Not that Democrats shouldn't compete or try to make inroads into an area the GOOP has heavily targeted over the past 30 years, but last week showed us that the South isn't or shouldn't be the axis of where our campaigns are fought.

Democrats now dominate the most populated states with the exception of Texas and Florida (and Florida WILL be competitive in 2008). Whomever the Democratic candidate is going into 2008, he/she stands to win the electoral votes of NY, Cal, Ill, MI and PA. Add to that the strong wave that hit Ohio and the big inroads in the Rocky Mountain West and Great Plains and there's already the 270 plus to win.

Last week's results showed the political power had shifted away from the South. If anything, the Repugnicans face a big problem as the Libertarian wing in starting to revolt and the Southern strategy is proving to be the undoing of the big tent as too much focus was paid to those areas and not to helping the party grow in other areas.

[bloom]

26. I think people need to see sexism and racism for what it is

and If "private rights" people are mostly promoting sexism and racism - we need to see it for what it is. FOX, whoever.

I wish people would stop falling for the "private rights" (some say it's Southern) type of arguments against being "politically correct". Anti-PC is mostly the right to be sexist and racist and not to give a crap about the public good.


I think that is what the Republicans are pushing. (Even if they do have Gonzalas and RIce, etc. working for them).

[Clark2008]

27. How come no one make polls like these about the Plains States?

I mean, they're far more red than the South.

Look at one of those red/blue maps and you'll see NOTHING but red - not a blue county one - from Texas up to North Dakota.

[jonnyblitz]

40. I guess nobody wrote an article in Salon about the plains

states. this poll was inspired by a Salon article apparently. I understand your annoyance with this topic if you are from the south. I get tired of hearing "we can never have a northeast liberal for a candidate" even if it is true. :shrug:

[AllieB]

115. Why will a 'Northeast Liberal' vote for a Southerner, but not vice versa?

:shrug:

This has always puzzled me as well, but maybe this is a creation of the media.

[Penndems]

124. I'm a dyed-in-the-wool, multgenerational Southerner, and I voted for John Kerry in 2004

and Michael Dukakis in 1988.

"Anybody But A Bush" is my personal slogan.

;)

[AllieB]

127. I think the media exploits the division

sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. :-)

I think we can definitely win the South-eventually!

[Penndems]

158. Agree about the media - it makes good copy to highlight the differences

between regions.

The South can be won, one person at a time.

[jonnyblitz]

130. I know

:crazy: i dont think the person who wouldnt vote for a northeast liberal would vote for a southern liberal either. you would think, anyway..

[Clark2008]

144. It's not so much a "northeastern liberal" - it's the elitism of a

John Kerry or a Michael Dukasis.

People down here don't have anything in common with them like they did with Bubba and Jimmy.

Maybe John Kerry should have gone by Johnny and stopped "effecting" so much in his accent. :7

[unc70]

175. The author of the Salon article also has a book, both wrong.

He got his Phd in Political Science at UNC Chapel Hill, but I don't think he is a Southerner (undergrad at SUNY Oswego).
Not as impressive as other grads of that program (e.g. Paul Wellstone) who came south for knowledge and left with understanding.

The selections I have seen from his book have not impressed me, a "Tarheel born, a Tarheel bred, and when I die ...". He seems clueless about the true underpinnings of traditional Southern life, culture, and politics -- things that are helping change the political landscape here in NC. I started that discussion in this reply, but realized it needs a much-longer thread of its own.

The quick summary of its conclusions are: Let those of born and raised in the South take the lead, set the tone, and develop the talking points. The rest of you, try to keep a lid on it, quit trying to prove who is stupid and wrong and lost causes. I believe that many of those who have long been lost, might now be found.

[jobycom]

28. Then what the hell is the point of the Democratic Party?

Are we the party of all Americans? Are we the party of equality? Are we the party of labor?

If so, we don't write off the South, we include the South and its considerations in our message. If we are just a special interest party, as the Republicans claim, for white, elite, educated Yankees and Californians, abandon the South and it's one-third African American population and enjoy feeling all morally superior and all.

The more the Dems try to shut out the South, the more it will go Republican, and the more we abandon the needs of non-white Southerners, and of labor, and of women in the South, all of whom may not benefit from majority rule.

The more the party tries to win the South, the more we will find common ground, the more we will get our message to them (to us, I live in the South), and the better off everyone in the south will be. And, and this is going to get me flamed, the more the Democratic Party tries to win the South, the more it might discover that it's missed a few points in its claims to be all inclusive and eqalitarian. There are issues important to the South that do get overlooked by Dems who just don't really want to bothered by them because they don't help us win the White House. Don't believe me? Look at New Orleans. Not after Katrina, but look at the decisions made before Katrina, by Republicans and Dems alike, that created the situation in New Orleans that led to the tragedy. Weak levees, poor flood control, extreme racism and poverty, the destruction of the wetlands... Dems were in control while a lot of that was happening. But we just ignored New Orleans. Where's the next New Orleans?

If this party is worthy of support, we don't abandon ANYONE! We are not the divide and conquer fascist Republicans, and should not strive to become them.

[Swamp Rat]

61. "If this party is worthy of support, we don't abandon ANYONE!"

:kick:

[jobycom]

63. Thank you, sir. nt

[Vorta]

32. More South bashing....... sigh eom

[Penndems]

45. Yes - and I, for one, am sick and tired of it

Folks, enough already, damn it. I'd like to think after four and a half years of posting on DU that we'd finally gotten past regional stereotyping.

[kentuck]

33. If we agree with Governor Dean and 50 state strategy...?

Then we fight in every state in the South also.

[Blackhatjack]

37. Agreed! n/t

[Blackhatjack]

34. Keep in Mind John Edwards Won Senate Seat in NC as a newbie...

... Edwards was given no chance of winning the seat, with no political experience and background. Ran hard on a populist platform with the backing of the State Democratic Party.

He was up against an incredibly well financed entrenched Republican, and not only did the State and National Republican Party strongly oppose him, but the medical/pharmaceutical/antitrial lawyer business coalition poured huge $ into the campaign opposing him.

He won anyway --and opened the door to defeating the financially monolithic Republican forces who dominated the senate races in the recent past.

Democrats can retake the South, it takes attention, financial backing, and time.

I agree with another assessment here, NC is definitely purple turning blue before the next Presidential election.

[theophilus]

38. Why should we give up when we are making progress?

I'm sure the Repugs would love for the Democrats to give up on the South. Therefore I say redouble our efforts. There are lots of good, caring people in the south who used to vote Democratic. We can get them back. Howard Dean seems to know what he is doing and speaks of a "50 State" plan. Let's don't derail that.


The South Will Rise Again.....hopefully, toward a Progressive future for the majority.

[Jed Dilligan]

39. When I think of the South,

I think of black people. I think of Dr. King and how much of his work has been left undone down there. I think of the solid stripe of blue counties in the old plantation districts, and the gerrymanders that slice these stripes and top them with hillbilly. I think of what modest measures, education and fairer wages and a little more balance in government could do for these people.

[rudy23]

42. This is a HORRIBLE thread

How black/white can you be? How can Democrats think with the exact same mechanisms that other prejudiced groups love to use?

Is the only point of governance to win a majority, and if you can't, then screw it? This is not a game.

The only difference between a "red state" and a "blue state" is the former is 60% fucked up, and the latter is 40% percent fucked up.

Usually the only real difference is a "blue state" has one more city than a "red state". That's it.

What if we'd said Fuck Montana? What about governorships, judgeships, and state legislatures? Even if Democrats are the minority in pockets of the South, do you want to leave them completely vulnerable and unrepresented, or do you want to at least fight to get at least SOME representation for people who deserve it?

For shame. Democratic principles favor many Southerners, but a lot of us will never vote Democratic because they perceive that Democrats look down on people like them. Every other day, there's a thread on here that backs that up.

People are suffering here because of it. People are SUFFERING from Katrina and Rita because of this attitude. How many prominent Democrats are making noise to try to get help to us down here? Why? Because they know their constituents don't care, because their Archie Bunker brains can't picture that we eat, sleep, go to school, go to work, dress professionally, go to the bathroom indoors, etc., etc, etc.

[MrCoffee]

44. Standing Ovation

:applause:

well said.

[Penndems]

48. ". . . a lot of us will never vote Democratic because they perceive that Democrats look down on

people like them. Every other day, there's a thread on here that backs that up."

BRAVO - an excellent summation.

[DemBones DemBones]

53. Thank you! I can't believe we're doing anti-South threads this soon

after winning the House and Senate. Why not focus on all the good things Dems can do now that they have power?

This South-bashing needs to stop if you oh-so-perfect people in the rest of the US want us Southern Dems to keep trying to make our states blue.

[DemBones DemBones]

54. Thank you! I can't believe we're doing anti-South threads this soon

after winning the House and Senate. Why not focus on all the good things Dems can do now that they have power?

This South-bashing needs to stop if you oh-so-perfect people in the rest of the US want us Southern Dems to keep trying to make our states blue.

[jobycom]

66. I need to go to the Rapture Ready board and see if I can find

an AMEN smilie!!!!

Thank you!! I'd offer to have your baby, but that would require surgical alterations on myself that I can't afford. You'll have to settle for this...

:toast: :bounce: :kick: :kick: :kick: :headbang: :headbang: :yourock: :yourock: :yourock:
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[baby_mouse]

107. BRAVO!!!

:applause:

[rudy23]

122. If you have trouble picturing a Southern Liberal, just picture REM

Or Stephen Colbert. For the stereotypically impaired.

[Odin2005]

140. Don't forget Al Gore, he's the ultimate Southern Liberal.

[Odin2005]

139. BINGO, there are no red states or blue states, that is a creation of MSM sensationalism.

[brentspeak]

161. Not only is this thread horrible, it's stupid, deliberately divisive, & makes me wonder about the OP

[Vorta]

167. Hear! Hear!

The only difference between a "red state" and a "blue state" is the former is 60% fucked up, and the latter is 40% percent fucked up.

Usually the only real difference is a "blue state" has one more city than a "red state". That's it.

Bingo.

I do have a problem with dressing "professionally". The dumbest thing in the whole of the South are these freezing cold buildings so that people can wear outdated and climate inappropriate clothing.

[rudy23]

169. I'll say hear, hear to that--the freezing buildings are ridiculous

When it's 100 degrees outside, and 65 degrees inside, you have to dress for one or the other. Then it turns into a civil war inside the office between the people who dress for each.

[Robeson]

196. rudy23, you've just been added to my "buddy" list....

...great post.

[LostinVA]

47. I think you need to reexamine what is the South

Virginia really isn't, and North Carolina will be in the same position in a decade or less, I Think. I think MO and IN are more "South" than the former.

It's no longer necessarily about "the blue and the grey"... and everyone needs to realize that.

[hogwyld]

49. Hell No! Never give up!

I for one won't rest until every single state in the union is liberal and blue.

[Sinti]

50. Let's stop pretending the South is made up entirely of bigots

IMO, the South probably needs a dose of liberalism more than any other part of this country. For those that fit the description you give, we need to help them through their blindness. We are all "real" Americans - the definition of American is a very flexible thing, and I like that.

Every state in the union should be a battleground come election season. Every individual in this country needs representation that cares about their well-being (more than the well being of the wealthiest 1%), and we need to make them understand that clear as crystal.

To give up the South is to walk away from a recovering, but still terribly ill, patient.

[Bucky]

51. Don't leave me alone here!! (ie, fighting them over here so we don't have to fight them there)

Basic tactics, folks. Win or lose here, if you keep the South at least competitive then money from Texas, Oklahoma, and Lousiana oil barons is less likely to find its way into Arkansas, Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, and now Indiana swing states. Indi-freaking-ana is a swing state now. Think about that. That's what the 50 state strategy is about, flipping reds to purples.

[jpwhite]

52. I am from Oklahoma and it is worth fighting for

Wait a second!!! I am from Oklahoma and I love it there. Oklahoma has a democratic govenor (Brad Henry) and there are dems there who are working hard to get the job done. There is no way that we should just conceed any part of America to the GOP. I can't be that involved now because I am in the military, but when I retire I hope to go back to oklahoma. We already have a democratic govenor. I believe that we should put up a strong candidate in 4 years and go after Dr. Tom Coburn's seat. He didn't win by a landslide. He barely got in.

Please don't give up on the okie dems because we aren't going to give up on you.

James
[e-mail]

[dae]

155. Hell, jp, he's talking about the South,. Now everyone knows

Louisiana is in the South and worth fighting for; but Oklahoma? I'll bet yall don't even know what grits are?
:evilgrin::toast:

[acmejack]

55. There is no could be involved, you are wrong.

Hopefully you were merely attempting to be provocative, if so you achieved your ends admirably. The assumption that the South the is a monolithic bloc of Conservative voters is, as you know, incorrect. Writing off the considerable percentage of Southerners who happen to be liberal would be a terrible mistake and a grievous insult to all of us as well.

[SoCalDem]

56. There is no "real America" except in the old movies

We are a mélange.

The image that seems to be burned into the brains of so many people over 45 is one of a "Father Knows Best", "It's a Wonderful Life", "Our Town", etc mentality. Those were MOVIES and TV SHOWS, people....

the truly funny thing is that most of the iconically "american" movies were created by Eastern European Jewish immigrant filmmakers.

They were so happy to be here,they created this mythical America that they loved so much, and tried to get others to see it as they did.. It worked..

many of the hyper-patriotic and best-loved Christmas music was also written/performed by Jewish immigrants..

the perpetuation of the "rugged individualist, real American" is a dangerous thing, and we are paying the price now.

[Bridget Burke]

94. Frank Capra was born in Sicily.

John Ford was born John Martin Feeney--his parents came from Galway.

This land is your land, this land is my land. I'm not giving up on any of it....

[SoCalDem]

110. Those damned immigrants.. How dare they try to define "America"

:rofl:

The funny thing is this.. EVERYONE WHO IS NOT NATIVE AMERICAN IS AN IMMIGRANT ( or a descendant of one)..

At what point does one quit being "immigrant-related" and become a "real American"?

1. when,after years of intermingling, their complexion "lightens"?
2. when they buy hair color and become "blond"?
3. when they "lose" their accent?
4. when they marry and get an "anglo" name?
5. when they move to the suburbs and "blend in"?
6. when they "pretend" to have only WASPy backgrounds?

If an asian person named Cheng, who was born in San Francisco, travels with an American passport, is he/she seen as American by "foreigners", or are they seen as Chinese?

If a black person from England comes here, are they seen as British, or are they seen as "possibly African"?

We have some real problems, and some day maybe people will start delving into why we are the way we are ..

[caseycoon]

57. In Alabama...

over the last 20 years I have seen attitude changes. They are damn slow coming, but they ARE coming. More people from all over the country are moving here & bringing more liberal attitudes. The younger generations are not as "set in stone" about things as their parents and grandparents. Yes, Alabama is pretty backward compared to the rest of the country, but we have to keep working to change that. Being a liberal from California hasn't been the most comfortable thing, but hey... I really do see changes. KEEP FIGHTING!

[piedmont]

82. I'm from Alabama, and

I've seen attitudes change in my own extended family.

[Adelante]

60. Howard Dean is right

We fight for EVERY state and we win.

[trof]

62. Yeah, but I wish y'all had started in 1862.

Reconstruction was a bitch.
;-)

[Beelzebud]

64. The South needs to realize they lost the war.

[trof]

65. Did not! So quit saying that.

We had a runny nose and a note from home.

[jobycom]

67. The North needs to realize it failed a lot of people after the war.

nt

[Beelzebud]

68. LOL See what I mean? It's not The North. It's called the United States of America.

The South was a band of traitors that valued keeping slaves over freedom.

[trof]

69. Got any butter?

:popcorn:

[cwydro]

114. move over

and pass the salt...:popcorn:

[jobycom]

73. The North was a band of tyrants who violated their own laws

and then pretended they had a noble cause for invading in the first place.

Hey, you started it.

[Beelzebud]

97. LOL. So in a nutshell the south should have kept its slaves then?

[jobycom]

100. No, the North should have exhausted legal and diplomatic resources

before invading an innocent nation at peace on trumped-up charges that they were afraid to take to a court. That's been done recently to other nations, you may recall.

The end of slavery was a beautiful outcome to an ugly mistake.

[Greyhound]

177. Would you please explain this one?

My history classes were unanimous in their lessons that on April 12, 1861 the Confederate States of America attacked Fort Sumter.

[Bridget Burke]

96. The South was ruled by slaveholders.

And far too many Southerners who didn't own slaves ended up fighting & dying for their homes.

[nosmokes]

171. the south lost the war?!?! hah! who said it's over?

it's a joke folks. move along nothing to see here. but as another alabama expatriot who has been to a couple of different county fairs and even around a couple of city blocks, lemme assure y'all that i have met racist rednecks in new york and california that could equal anything i could find in mississisippi or alabama, as well as wonderful souls that won't truck any nonsense from anyone, regardless of color or status. people are people. true, the south is definitely the bible belt, but even that is changing as younger church people are realizing that poverty and the environment are a lot closer to theteachings of jesus than gay bashing and the corporate agenda. keep in mind nothing changes overnight.

[aquaman]

70. I am from the south too....

and could not disagree with you more. So, what should we do? Give up, be passive? Whatever, what an absolutely ignorant thing to propose, in my opinion. I will continue to advocate and speak out with my opinions whether I am in the south, north, east or west. We should never give up.

[jpgray]

71. Are you done with Southerners?

I'm not. Fuck anybody who wants to wholesale abandon any significant group of Democrats. They aren't markers on your fucking gameboard, okay?

[jpwhite]

74. thank you jpgray

I am from oklahoma and I love it there. There are plenty of liberals in oklahoma. I just use the term progressive because I think it's catchy. It reminds me of the car insurance commercials...."This is how life should be!"

this is how life should be
1) no prejudice towards homosexuals or minorities
2) abortion should be safe, legal, and rare
meaning keep the gov't out of the womb
3) government should regulate businesses so they don't
screw the middle class workers of america by shipping
all of our jobs overseas
4) everyone should have basic health care
5) we use diplomacy to solve our problems with other countries
instead of "preemptive strike"
6) we ensure social security will be safe by raising the FICA
tax limit from 90,000 dollars to one million
7) we regulate how much involvement big business has with
congress by limiting what lobbying groups can do
(no free plane rides, no free tickets to games, etc.)


James
[e-mail]

[Alcibiades]

75. I think it's a figure of speech

as in let's give up on states where we have absolutely no chance of winning. I don't think anyone's suggesting that the democratic Party of Alabama be abolished, or anything of the sort.

I agree with you in that there's a lot of headway to be made in the south, but I think what we're seeing is a certain level of frustration with the fact that, despite the fact that the Republicans have ruled so badly, they still enjoy significant electoral majorities in the south. Lots of folks wonder how bad it has to get, what exactly do we have to do, to win over people who continue to vote for a party that rules badly, and often in ways contradictory to the self-interest of the average southerner, at least their economic interest.

[jpgray]

78. Just because there's little chance of gaining some seat or other in two years

Doesn't mean we should starve a city/district/county/state of funding for its Democrats. Politics isn't strictly a battle of ideas that happens every two years--it's a continuing process of nurtured growth. Conservatives understood that, and their think tanks and advocacy groups poured untold billions into political strategies that would take decades to realize. We need the same longterm approach, but since our policies will actually benefit most who might consider voting for them, we can do it more cheaply and in less time. But it will take far longer than it could or should if the South remains uncontested on any level--financial or otherwise. I'm glad Howard Dean understands that.

[misternormal]

90. Self delete

[bryant69]

80. If there aer significant numbers of Democrats in the south

I see no evidence of them. Rather the democrats that win in the south tend to be sellout types like Nelson of Florida. Democrats that have to run on being conservative, essentially.

Bryant

[jpgray]

84. How do you expect the party to ever improve there? Magic Democracy gnomes?

You have to fund at the local level consistently, with long-term goals, if you want the party there to move left. This is the same logically bankrupt fallacy that has people threatening to vote Green if the Democratic Party doesn't move left--withheld support won't encourage people to change. In fact it breeds bitterness and hatred amongst those who should be allies.

[bryant69]

93. Yeah but do you put money in communities

that are already lost or communities where we have a chance? I mean there are probably a lot of areas in the midwest or the rocky mountains where we might have more chance of success and where we don't have to kowtow to Southern Conservativism to get anywhere.

Bryant

[jpgray]

99. This was a thread about being "done" with the South

There are communities in the South that are exactly as you describe--communities where putting money will make a huge difference. Are you suggesting that we write them off to focus elsewhere? I'm sorry, but the way this poll was written it was almost guaranteed to receive an inflammatory response, and deservedly so. There is no large geographic region in the country that isn't deserving of some national Democratic Party support, financial or otherwise.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

86. Hmmmm

Bill Nelson has a 80% ADA rating... His GOPU counterpart has a 5% ADA rating... I'll take Bill Nelson...


http://www.adaction.org/ADATodayVR2005.pdf

[bryant69]

95. He's a sellout pure and simple

I am obviously not suggesting that we put Katherine Harriss in his place - I'm just saying he'se a good example of what being Democrat in the South is like.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

104. He Has A 80% ADA Rating...

That means by an objective standard he's close to being a liberal and he's (sixteen) times more liberal than his GOPU counterpart...

And if you conclude Bill Nelson is a sellout then logic forces you to conclude Lawton Chiles and Bob Graham were sellouts too because they pretty much voted the same way when they were senators...

Viva Graham

Viva Chiles

Viva Nelson


Much better than the tools they defeated...

[bryant69]

106. Actually your right those are all good examples

Those other two aren't as bad as Nelson, of course, but yeah, to be a democrat in the south is to be a conservative more or less.

Bryant

[DemocratSinceBirth]

111. Actually Walking Lawton Was A More Conservative Senator Than Nelson...

And Bob Graham and Bill Nelson are pretty much the same ideologically...


Perhaps Graham appeared to get more liberal as he served but that's because as he gained seniority he won more leeway from the voters to vote as he want...

Again, I don't see a 80 ADA rating makes you a conservative...

[Alcibiades]

179. I'm not easily shocked, but this does it for me

WOW. That's appallingly ignorant. You may not know this, but there are Democrats in the South. Millions of us.

I hate to have to point this out, but there is a large demographic group in the south that votes over 90% Democratic, election after election. They elect members to Congress regularly, and have done a great deal for our party. Check out http://www.congressionalblackcaucus.net/ if you'd like to know more about this mysterious group, of which you seem strikingly unaware.

Below is a list of southern states (southern means, BTW for those of you who are confused and would like to include Indiana and exclude Florida, the members of the Confederacy), their number of Democratic House members, and the number of members from that state, for the 109th Congress.

AL 2/7
AR 3/4
FL 7/25
GA 6/13
KY 1/6
LA 2/7
MS 2/4
MO 4/9
SC 2/6
NC 6/13
TN 5/9
TX 11/32
VA 3/11

These Congresspeople were elected by Democratic voters. Is that enough "evidence" of significant numbers of Democrats in the South?

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

79. Out Of All The Things I Have Read On The Net That Takes The Cake

-:(

[aquaman]

85. Thanks for making a broad ignorant comment....

stating that my home is repulsive. I find you repulsive. Your hate is much more apparent than what I see day to day on most days from people living here.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

92. I See You're In South Carolina...

Two funny anecdotes...


My girlfriend and I were in Hilton Head and Charleston the day before and the day of the 1992 election. When we are in Hilton Head we were dining at an Applebees or some restaurant like that and an apparently well to do couple were discussing the election and mused that Clinton would "grow into the job. We were staying at the Omni Charleston which is now Charleston Place ... I went down to get my paper and there were two older African American gentleman who I believe were bellhops... One said to the other "he (Clinton) kicked his ass...

I don't understand blind hatred for the south... There's good and bad folks everywhere...

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cwydro]

117. well, there's a nice constructive comment/ nt

[Lurking Dem]

132. I guess

every asshole is entitled to an opinion.

But we are very glad that you're not here.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Czolgosz]

81. Can't we just re-fight the Civil War but not fight so hard this time?

I'm just kidding. OF COURSE we need to fight to win back the South (but without compromising our values). If you have any doubt about how it can be done, read Jim Webb's great editorial in the Wall Street Journal -- here's a sample:

The most important--and unfortunately the least debated--issue in politics today is our society's steady drift toward a class-based system, the likes of which we have not seen since the 19th century. America's top tier has grown infinitely richer and more removed over the past 25 years. It is not unfair to say that they are literally living in a different country. Few among them send their children to public schools; fewer still send their loved ones to fight our wars. They own most of our stocks, making the stock market an unreliable indicator of the economic health of working people. The top 1% now takes in an astounding 16% of national income, up from 8% in 1980. The tax codes protect them, just as they protect corporate America, through a vast system of loopholes.

Incestuous corporate boards regularly approve compensation packages for chief executives and others that are out of logic's range. As this newspaper has reported, the average CEO of a sizeable corporation makes more than $10 million a year, while the minimum wage for workers amounts to about $10,000 a year, and has not been raised in nearly a decade. When I graduated from college in the 1960s, the average CEO made 20 times what the average worker made. Today, that CEO makes 400 times as much.

In the age of globalization and outsourcing, and with a vast underground labor pool from illegal immigration, the average American worker is seeing a different life and a troubling future. Trickle-down economics didn't happen. Despite the vaunted all-time highs of the stock market, wages and salaries are at all-time lows as a percentage of the national wealth. At the same time, medical costs have risen 73% in the last six years alone. Half of that increase comes from wage-earners' pockets rather than from insurance, and 47 million Americans have no medical insurance at all.

Manufacturing jobs are disappearing. Many earned pension programs have collapsed in the wake of corporate "reorganization." And workers' ability to negotiate their futures has been eviscerated by the twin threats of modern corporate America: If they complain too loudly, their jobs might either be outsourced overseas or given to illegal immigrants.

[Greyhound]

88. Where's the option to just let them secede?

Frankly they have always been far more trouble than they are worth, so I say let them go. They obviously don't want to live in a free country where each individual has comparable worth, they have a burning desire to be subjects to some kind of overlord, so let them go.

Now, I hope it is obvious that not all southerners are like this and many of the finest people on earth are Southern Americans, unfortunately there simply aren't enough of them to matter, or make a difference. So I say let give folks two years to move to the area that best suits their attitudes and then just let them go.

[aquaman]

102. You say...

"unfortunately there simply aren't enough of them to matter, or make a difference."

Thanks for the uplifting statement. I feel that I make a difference everyday and don't need a higher than thou person such as yourself to tell me that I "matter."

[Greyhound]

133. I'm not the one that makes the whole region look like the last bastion

in medievalism.

For its entire history, with every step forward this country has taken, we have had to drag the entire south, kicking and screaming, every step of the way. They would have stopped the very independence and formation of our country had Jefferson refused to remove "the offending paragraph" from The Declaration of Independence, they prevented the Constitutional Convention from even debating the slavery issue, then they tried to secede to preserve their "peculiar institution".

Not long after we had to sacrifice 3/4 of a million northern lives in order to drag them back into the nation whereupon they set up Jim Crow, passionately resisted women's suffrage, rioted over the radical idea that black people are, in fact, people, threatened another revolt over the New Deal, instituted the most corrupt governments this country has endured at all levels, brought us such shining political examples as LBJ, Nixon, George Wallace, Carter (although I loved him as President, most of the nation disagrees with me), Raygun, Clinton and both shrubs.

Today they send us such progressive leadership as Mary Landrieu, Bill Nelson, and on and on and on...

The south has also consistently taken far more resources from the rest of the country than it provides, in short it has always been a net loss, a drain of our wealth and hindrance to our progress, and if the nation were a business it would have been broken up and sold off long ago.

I am sorry that you are among the unfortunates that are subjected to the ignorant, backward prejudices that not only exist there, but are embraced with the fervor normally reserved for precious heirlooms. However, you are not the south and since you are here on DU and a democrat, you are not representative of the majority of southerners.

I have lived in and loved the south, but at some point you just have to cut your losses and realize that the good things in the south are just not worth the resistance, pain, and death, that comes along with it.

[aquaman]

145. Thanks for the history lesson...

"I never had no kind of inkling that that there stuff happened down here. Thanks for bringing that stuff to my attentions."

I will move tomorrow.....




This whole country has a violent history, a history that at times is shameful. There is enough good in the south to stay, fight, and advocate democratic positions. Just so your highness knows, I live in a county that votes democratic, have a democratic congressman and the majority of local officials in my county are democrats. When you make ignorant statements such as you have today you insult all of us that are trying to do good here.

[Greyhound]

150. Has nothing to do with Democrats or repukes (plenty of evil to go around)

and since you seem intent on ignoring the facts, my sympathy, and the absurdity of my initial reply, I hope you enjoy your indignity.

Shalom

[Name removed]

152. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lurking Dem]

154. "Bless his heart."

[dae]

162. You are much to kind.

:toast:

[Greyhound]

160. LOL!

OK you want to go there, fine. Where am I wrong? Name one thing in the "offending post" that is in any way factually inaccurate, and don't think for a minute that those are only shots I have, they barely surface of the lunacy that you seem so anxious to defend.

It was a ridiculous OP, to which I made an absurd reply and you seem to be the only one that doesn't get it. OTOH, your thin skinned indignity is quite typical of the average response when someone points out the bizarre culture that has been allowed to fester there. Well, I don't give a shit if you choose to be offended and I'm not about to acquiesce to your whining, so suck it up. :nopity:

[Vorta]

166. What utopia do you now reside in? Did you improve your native community by leaving it?

[Greyhound]

172. AZ. Do you have a point? n/t

[unc70]

176. Unlike your backward, ignorant fervently embraced prejudices?!

Your ignorance is astounding. For example, before the "Civil War" the South paid over 80% of all the taxes/duties collected and spent by the Federal government, while expenditures went mostly to the North. This revenue was derived primarily from duties on exports/imports. The South traded primarily with Europe and paid increasing duties on nearly everything, the North had more manufacturing but much less foreign trade. The Free/Slave state issue was often shorthand for other issues such as this.

Slavery was a major issue, but a much more complex one than any of us were taught in school. Recent scholarly research by John Hope Franklin and others using original source documents reveal things that astound nearly everyone. The first documented slaveholder in the colonies was a black man in VA; many blacks owned slaves and indentureds; until the late 1700's it was legal, though rare, for free blacks to own white slaves and indentures; most of the racial mixing was not between the white slave owner and the black slave girl but primarily between a black slave man and an indentured white women in the same household; their children would be non-slave, non-indentured.

Before Lincoln emancipated the slaves (but only in the rebelling states), he had signed a constitutional amendment which would have made the emancipation illegal along with any other laws prohibiting slavery. Slaves in the North were freed until much later. When the Union Army captured New Orleans, it took control of the slaves effectively becoming their new masters (previously, about 3000 of the slaveholders in NO were black).

Yes the South lost the war, but we cannot get over it. While it was started by the firebrands on all the many sides, every Southern family paid the price for the ego, overconfidence, bravado, overheated rhetoric, ignorance, certitude, and outright stupidity of most of the leaders north, south, and west. There are many parallels with our current situation wrt Iraq. But the South was not just defeated; the Union Army laid waste to everything, of value or not. Nearly anything of value was looted, the rest destroyed. Our family bible was pulled from my great-grandmother's hands and burned before she and her ill daughter were turned out of their house without food or shelter. Her daughter died the next day. And there were attrocities that are only discussed in hushed tones; it's hard to get over sexual assault.

Since most of our heirlooms are gone forever, those remaining are precious. So are the stories and memories of our families and those times, their sacrifices, their suffering, those killed, those maimed for life. And all for what?

And the land pulls us back, refreshing these memories as we tend their graves, consider the monuments, and again confront our losses. We are humbled by this. We do not need your institutionalized humiliation and guilt being applied to another generation.


BTW NC voted for JFK in 1960. I have a long journal article that I will post soon proposing a new Southern Strategy.

[Greyhound]

178. I stated facts, the same as you did. However you didn't address the

core issue raised. Why?

You can deny the facts all you want, but there they are, a silent yet persistent indictment of the prejudice and bigotry that still festers.

As I stated before, I have lived in the south and came to love it (Atlanta, a great city that most of the rest of the south considers to have been ruined by the compromises reached in the 60's). The attitudes of their politics are not generally reflected in the people I know and met there, yet due to the permanent familial power structure with few exceptions, progressive ideas and proposals are consistently squashed. Just look at the family names of the southern powers from 200 years ago and the rolls of the political power players today.

[unc70]

190. Can't speak to your unspecified problems with Atlanta,

I have not denied the racism and prejudice of the South. I would not attempt to comment on Atlanta issues, particularly without knowing more specifically of what you refer. It is quite likely that I lack the nuanced understanding to intelligent discuss many issues relating to Atlanta.

Semi-permanent familial power structures are the norm in all 50 states and over the entire political spectrum. But even without things like the son running for his father's old House seat, I would expect that you would see the same family names repeating in the political leadership in the South. The South had modest immigration for the 150 years before WWII.
Why be surprised that the same family names can be found in 1800 and now?

As for Atlanta being a "great city" that was ruined in 60's, I would disagree. New Orleans, Charleston, easily considered to be great. I would place Atlanta in the category of necessary, a place for commerce where the rails crossed, a place for merchants and bankers, a place focused on money. But probably somewhat lacking in the civility, arts, music, and textures of NO, Charleston, or Savannah. Any city where status is conferred primarily by wealth alone is not truly Southern.

In most of the South, if you are impolite, do not show respect for your elders no matter their wealth, call excessive attention to your self, threaten to sue at the drop of the hat, yell at people in "inferior" positions, or treat people unkindly, your position in Southern society and its power structure would be limited, no matter how much money you had.

I did not deny facts; they stand or fall on their own. I attempted to refute some of your assertions and augment others. Mostly, I was trying to help you derive understanding. As a proud Tarheel, I hoped also to instill in you something of which we are most proud, a modicum of humility. Esse quam videre

[cwydro]

119. oh lord

:eyes:

[piedmont]

125. Move north and freeze my ass off? No thanks!

[Greyhound]

134. SoCal is very nice and if you want really warm try Nevada or Arizona. n/t

[brentspeak]

164. D.U.M.B. post of the day

I agree with the poster below: you sound like a snob. Maybe in reality you're not a snob -- but that post sure makes you sound like one.

[Greyhound]

181. What began as an absurd reply to an asinine OP has, thanks to the

thin skin of a very few southerners here, has turned into a furball. You want to jump in?

Where is anything I stated incorrect?

[brentspeak]

184. If you were just being sarcastic, then I apologize

[Alamom]

89. This poll is biased/ bogus/ ambiguous /artichoke

[misternormal]

91. Arkansas: 2 Democratic Senators and a Democratic Governor...

... Time to give up on us don't you think???...

And thank you much to the Democrats who are willing to do so...

Just because a Southern state might have a shit load of repukes, doesn't mean you give up on the Democrats who live there...

Again, thanks a hell of a lot.

[oasis]

98. Sen. Harold Ford.

'nuff said.

[BlackVelvet04]

101. Many parts of the south are becoming

attractive for retirees due to lower cost of living....especially housing costs. As northern, liberal retirees move into an area the culture starts to change. I wouldn't write off the south...INFILTRATE it.

[Bridget Burke]

105. "Coddling" the South & Fighting for the South are 2 different things.

Although, seeing as you're a Floridian, I must admit to wishing we could just saw Florida off & let Fidel have you all.

(Back in 2000.)

[Rosemary2205]

108. PLEASE PEOPLE DO NOT LEAVE ME ALONE IN THE SOUTH

There are so few of us left down here we need all the help we can get. It really is "the red menace" here.

[Burma Jones]

112. Piffle - We're going to fight ignorance and arrogance everywhere.

there's plenty up North too you know...........

[Marnieworld]

113. Last I heard these were the United States of America

So um no. The South is our country, our people, our heritage. I wouldn't abandon my fellow Americans ever. If some disagree with me on issues, let's discuss issues but together we are stronger. Together we are America.

And I'm a Jersey girl so there!

[roamer65]

116. The problem isn't the South, it's the GOP

Great news today over at DailyKos. The Delaware GOP has laid off all of their staff in Delaware, effectively abandoning the state. We're on our way to decimating the GOP.

[AllieB]

121. We should NEVER abandon a part of the country

The South has blue and purple areas, and if the Dems stick to populist issues, they can win there.

[rudy23]

123. Stephen Colbert is from the South.

I pointed this out elsewhere on the thread, but I think I'm going to keep saying it until these ignorant threads go away.

[Bridget Burke]

128. And Jon Stewart attended The College of William & Mary

In Virginia.

[rudy23]

170. Colbert's from South Carolina. Ellen DeGeneres is from New Orleans. n/t

[martymar64]

197. David Cross is from Georgia

Willie Nelson is from Texas.

As a resident of the Lone Star State, I constantly find myself embarassed by the attitudes of my fellow Texans and other Southerners. But there are those of us out there that give me a little hope. just a little.

[mnhtnbb]

126. Edwards is just the person to talk to southerners. Don't give up!

[KamaAina]

129. Sen. George Macaca Allen thanks you for your support

oh, that's right, Dem Jim Webb kicked his racist behind out of the Senate, because fortunately, Howard Dean and most other Dems agree that we are NOT done with the South.

[derby378]

131. Take a good look at all the electoral votes from Texas

Trust me, you want to turn Texas blue again. It would practically seal the deal for the 2008 election.

[Odin2005]

135. We must continue fighting for the South, it isn't as red as people think it is.

The main problem is that the urban culture warriors demanding ideological purity on social issues drive away socially moderate and socially conservative left-wingers in the South. There are also a lot of African American voters we would be abandoning if we ignored the South.

[THUNDER HANDS]

136. I say, now that we're in power we can do a lot to help people in the south

but if they don't return the favor in kind, oh well. Have fun with the GOP.

[Lurking Dem]

138. GRITS!

I am a proud Girl Raised In The South!

I grew up in Texas, I'm living in Tennessee, and by G-d I'm going to be buried in South Carolina!

And, like my parents before me, I'm a Yaller Dawg Dem and I'm a Jew. So Chai Y'all!

[Lex]

148. Wow.

:loveya:

[Lurking Dem]

151. Awwwww, thanks.

:blush:

[Vorta]

165. Have you ever watched the PBS doc on Southern Jews?

There are a couple of them (documentaries that is). One is about the Jews in the antebllum and wartime South. The other is a "back to where I grew up" thing. Both are very enjoyable and educational.

[Lurking Dem]

168. I've seen one of them.

I would like to see the one about Jews in the antebellum wartime South because that was largely my family! Sephardim settled in Charleston to Sumter and started the Reform movement.

My great grandfather's house is the Sumter, SC Historical Society building!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

141. I Guess The OP Forgot The Last Three Democratic Presidents Came From The South

[depakid]

142. If "fighting for the south" means legitimizing far right policies

and diluting (or abandoning) progressive policies and traditional Democratic values I say LOUDLY:

Fuck the South.

This sort of pandering is what's caused the Dems to appear to stand for nothing- and it cost us the nightmares of the last 12 years.

If Southerners want racism, sexism, religious extremism and bigotry-

If they want poorly funded schools, crappy- or non-existent healthcare-

If they want abusive labor laws and no consumer protection

If they want foul air and water.

I SAY LET THEM HAVE IT.

Only a fool would fight for such things (although apparently, we quite a number of fools on DU)

[Greyhound]

153. I started it as a joke, but check out #88...

:hi::kick:

[depakid]

156. I read that editorial today and was damned impressed

Now see- that's the sort of engagement that we need.

In some respects, that's what Howard Dean was doing in 2003-2004.

Southern people need the same sorts of things we do- unfortunately, all too many have been seduced into voting against theirs and their childrens' interests, which has cost us all dearly.

[JeremyWestenn]

143. Absolutely! We must fight in the south!

For starters let me tell you where I live. The second congressional district of Kansas. And guess what? The bitch here, Gods know I love her, pulled it off. We won this district in a rematch where the opponent originally lost by 15%. Now, Kansas certainly is not as red as some states, that much is certain. But what Howard Dean said once is very, very true, " We have to start winning locally to start winning nationally. " The more we do this in states previously thought of as off limits the sooner the minds and beliefs of those states start to sway. We also have to keep in mind that when my generation of people start entering the polls, the 15-25 year old generation, things will sway dramatically in many states. Locally and nationall race wise.

We can't give up the fight. In many places things will change, it'll take time, but that's apart of the road we have to walk on. We gotta keep building ground in the north, east, west, and start to pave the streets in the south.

- Jeremy

[USA_1]

146. This Has Been Discussed Before ...

and it remains a critical issue for those of us who want to take back the USA from the reich wing ultra fascists.

As I have written on this forum before: in order to win back the South the Democrats must use the Bible and to utilize its social gospel message. Traditional Democratic party teaching and practice has ALWAYS been consistent with biblical teaching. If Jesus was walking the eath today He would vote Democrat. Deny that and you will only prove that you do not know the Bible.

I realize that some Dems either fear the Bible or are non practitioners. But the vast majority are good Christians and Jews and others who revere the Bible's message of peace and reconciliation. Like it or not the Bible is the best weapon that the Democratic party has. Use it properly and you will win back the South.

Guaranteed!

[Lex]

147. True liberals and progressives don't throw people overboard.

Instead they continue to try to educate people and help end racism, sexism, and poverty.

Never give up, never be "done" with anyone.

[Hosnon]

149. No and this is yet another ridiculous thread. See post #42. nt

[brentspeak]

157. Who said anything about "coddling" the South? This is a ridiculous, insulting thread

Your opinion that we should "fu*k the south" is not made any more credible simply because you're from the south.

I'm from NJ, and I say the south is just as important as the north, the east, and the western sections of the United States.

(BTW. Didn't the Democrats just last week win a bunch of southern seats in Congress ??!!)

[Leopolds Ghost]

159. bryant, I thought you were a fairly conservative Dem? n/t

[Ksec]

163. Liberals migrating south is becoming a key

I see where Virginia has become competitive in the races because of people from blue states migrating there.

But no, I think it may take a few years but a fifty state strategy will work in the long run.

[Alcibiades]

180. Same here in NC

Our number one source for folks relocating is NY. I just hope the Yankees don't run out of Democrats to send us!

[left of center]

187. the Triangle is a good example

There was a piece recently in the News and Observer that catagorized counties according to their non-native populations. The Triangle, Wilmington, and Asheville areas stood out most. If you counted counties with non-native majorities, near majorities, and large minorities, it was about half of the state. Down here in Chatham County, we're now about evenly split- and it shows in our politics! Many northern Republicans get down here and realize they're really Democrats.

[RedCloud]

174. More northeners should migrate to the south

Simple as that.

Once the voting balance gets back to norm, ignorance shall no longer reign supreme. Too many easy votes based on religion by those who use them as suckers. That part needs to be drum rolled, because they violate those commandments "religiously".

I live in the south and I do what I can in a small way. If more would influence a dozen or so per year, we got 'em!

[QC]

182. All the carpetbaggers around here are freepers.

So much for that myth.

We have enough wingnuts here without the northeast and midwest sending us all theirs.

[QC]

183. This thread represents everything that is ugly and stupid and cruel about DU.

Frankly, many of you sound just like a pack of knuckledragging freepers sitting around discussing California or Massachusetts.

There are many times when I find myself believing, sadly, that DU has become nothing more than a mirror image of Freak Republik. Discussions like this one are the reason why.

[left of center]

185. should not be our immediate focus

A better strategy would be to continue hammering away at parts of the midwest (see Ohio) and the mountain states (see Colorado). If we get those states on board, win elections, and govern well, we will eventually earn the South's trust. With exception to Virginia and perhaps North Carolina, the South is still trending more to the right.

[hsher]

186. "Be done with? HELL!"

Or should I say, "HI-el"? As someone who used to live in Atlanta, I just want to say there is hope for the South. First of all, Atlanta is an extremely liberal town. It's when you roam OUTSIDE the bugger that things get hairy, bubba and interesting. Don't give up on the South. The South is the traditional heartland of the Democrat party. It's the origin of the term "yellow dog Democrats". Just because evangelist Southerners are confused and were totally certain Bush sided with Jaysus, and voted to back that, doesn't mean we should discard these people. Southerners also have a built-in That's Enough Goddammit switch. When they've seen enough bullshit to trigger it, they walk out on the bullshitters once and for all, forever. The Repugs will NEVER get 'em back.

Give up on it? Nah.

We need to swarm down in there crashing like a tidal wave and start PROSELYTIZIN'!

(Appeal to them with the parts of the Bible in Red. That's a strategy that can't lose.)

[TheFarseer]

188. yes, absolutely

Aren't there democratic reps from every southern state? Health Schuler took a seat in Congress. Webb won in Virginia. Ford came close in Tennessee. We all know how close Gore was to winning FL in 2000. I think the biggest target of the Democratic party should be working class people and there's alot of working class people in the south and the rest of America for that matter. It is a big mistake to write of any part of the country, even if it seems the rewards will be reaped well into the future.

[MrSlayer]

189. No. We have to get them to realize that we are on their side despite the propaganda.

And we can do that by working for them as well as America as a whole. Let them see the positive results of our policies and they will realize they've been hoodwinked by the propaganda machine. They are proud people, sometimes stubborn to a fault but they do not like to be made fools of. By showing them the positives that we can generate, positives that equate to jobs and money in their pockets they will turn away from the dark side. Actions speak louder than words, we must act.

[Moloch]

191. It really depends on the state...

Florida, Virginia and Arkansas are worth investing time and money on but racist-conservative strongholds like Alabama, Mississippi and all of Georgia except Atlanta are just a waste of time.

[CarbonDate]

192. I believe in the 50 state strategy.

That includes the south. Now, do I think we should give them special consideration over other regions? No.

[Alexander]

193. Florida is not the South...

I would consider Missouri to be the NW corner of the South, Louisiana/Texas the SW corner, Georgia and maybe some parts of the Florida panhandle the SE corner, and Virginia the NE corner.

But I think your vision of the South is terribly skewed. Do you know how many black people live in the southern United States? Do you have any idea who they tend to vote for, 80-90% of the time?

Also, do you support Dean's 50-state strategy? Because it sounds like you don't.

The Civil War was fought 150 years ago - and while there's no shortage of Dixie-waving racists who need to get over it, everyone else needs to get over it, too, and not be sore winners in the process.

It may also interest you to know that John Kerry, that elitist New England liberal, got over 40% of the vote throughout the South - except in 3 states: Mississippi, Alabama and Kentucky. And depending on your definition, Kentucky may not even be part of the South.

Yet Kerry didn't crack 40% throughout much of the Plains or Rocky Mountain states. Should we write all those off?

[Jamastiene]

194. I agree with you, but this is going to get rough.

There are tons of southerners on DU who don't get it. They will think you mean them. Like I said, I tend to agree with you about the so-called "real America" being impossible to win for any decent candidate, unfortunately.

[buddhamama]

198. i care about people regardless of their party affiliation

and i personally wouldn't want to belong to a political party that would choose to ignore regions of the country and the people who live there because they had a "R" next to their name instead of a "D". it would go against everything i stand for.

by taking the approach outlined we'd be no better than those we despise.