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Do you have a positive opinion of Bill Clinton?

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Tiggeroshii Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:34 PM
Original message
Poll question: Do you have a positive opinion of Bill Clinton?
Edited on Thu Nov-16-06 12:35 PM by Tiggeroshii
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Mixed.
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Tiggeroshii Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Maybe Lukewarm?
Selection added.
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. And I made use of the "Lukewarm" option. Thanks!
Although Bill Clinton is by far a BETTER president than Dumbya will ever hope to be, I didn't like the Welfare Reform he championed and signed into law, and I don't like the fact that during his eight years, we never got any comprehensive health insurance.

But I do like the peace and prosperity we once enjoyed in this country.

That's why I chose "Lukewarm".
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. Other: yes and no.
There are some good things he did, and many harmful things he did.
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Sadly, he wasn't quite the friend of the gay community that I hoped.
He implemented DOMA and DADT. And while appointing an A-List gay man Ambassador to Luxembourg is great and all, it really doesn't do much for me. I'd rather that the Defense of Marriage Act wasn't signed into law instead.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. And NAFTA, and welfare "reform"
He wasn't very good for GLBTs, for poor people, for unions, for the uninsured, etc.

He did balance the budget... :shrug:
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chaumont58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. I don't know why Clinton tried anything? He gets nothing but shit
for being the only twice elected Democratic President since FDR. I remember a press conference of Kennedy where Kennedy was braced by an old woman gadfly about what Kennedy had done lately for women. Kennedy replied that whatever he had done, he was sure it wasn't enough. Clinton could use the exact same answer.
I'm a Clinton fan. I have some disagreement over Iraq, but good god, he was a good president. He helped the people who needed help. He didn't help me, but I don't need any fucking help. To me, that's what a good government does, helps those that need help. The fucking repukes help the rich, and tell the rest to sink or swim.
The Carnegie Endowment for Peace did a study on NAFTA, trying to see what effect did it have on the three countries. In Mexico, NAFTA did not change the incidence of companies moving into or out of the maqeladora(sp?). It did not change the incidence illegal immigration. Liberals like to throw shit at NAFTA, but its like tilting at windmills.
I've said more that I should have. Talking to Clinton haters is like tilting at windmills too.
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Bravo!
But it is not just "Clinton haters." I cannot think of a single issue or a person that would get a uniform embrace by DUers. Except, perhaps Skinner, and he is not doing that well on the funds these days :evilfrown:

But then, with more than 90,000 DUers and with us being, after all, Democrats, this is reality.

We do know that could he run again, he would win, hands down.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. thanks for the info on NAFTA, and for sticking up for Clinton.
When I clicked on this thread I thought the choices would be "yes" and "hell yes". We are a pretty critical bunch.

People trash Clinton for welfare reform. When I ask why, it is alarming how ill informed they are about what it was and what it did. Welfare reform, while not perfect, was a whole hell of a lot better than what we had. Clinton wanted to give supportive services (child care mostly) to welfare recipients so they could get training to get off welfare. The time lines were a trade off and in my opinion, a good one.

(As to an earlier post about gays, I see it differently. He did what he could. He was shocked at the hatred of gays which had, until then, been underground. He brought it to the surface which in the long run will be a good thing. I know its hard to be patient but changing people's deep seated prejudice is difficult and takes time. Ask blacks and women. I've always been proud that Clinton took the issue on. Many say that was what the 1994 backlash in Congress was about. Remember, the GOP took 50 house seats and 9 Senate seats that year. Clinton had only been prez for 2 years and the Dems had held the house for 40 years. You have to admit it played a part and Clinton paid a price. It was the right thing to do but I think he took it as far as he could.)

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chaumont58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Regarding welfare reform
When the argument was going on, in the mid 90s, my position could be called simplistic, but, I thought, unless someone is willing to see people starve, welfare 'reform' is deck chair rearranging. I never read any of the fine print, but I also have never heard of anyone starving.
About 'don't ask, don't tell,' most of the shit Clinton gets now about that is from people who have forgotten just how many homophobes were in congress during the early and mid 90s. Democrat powerhouse Sam Nunn would fire any staffer he found to be gay, period. Clinton was trying to remove the military regs against being gay and staying in the service. Colin Powell was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs at the time and he raised the same issues against gays that were raised against blacks by the military when Harry Truman integrated the military services in the late 40s. I read complaints about Clinton signing DOMA. As far as I am concerned, DOMA was public relations bullshit on the part of what left of homophobia in Congress.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. When I heard about welfare reform I thought "another failed social
experiment on the backs of the poor." Then I was hired as legal counsel for the state welfare office. First, I was shocked to find the entire staff a bunch of pinko liberals (I shouldn't have been but I'm in the reddest of red states) and second I was shocked to find they all favored welfare reform. It gave them the money they needed to provide education/training and child care and do something that would really make a difference to the poor. They also agreed with the time limit believing too many people were not motivated to get off welfare because no time limit had ever been imposed (they'd tried them but relented). Welfare is not a good "life style." I know for some people it is the best they might ever get but honestly, it is a dreadful way to live.

The average person on welfare is a 26 year old person with 1.6 kids who will receive 16 months assistance whose husband left them without support. We never "sunk" money into that population before but spent our time and resources making sure there was no "man in the house." Welfare reform gave us (the states) leeway to pump some resources (child care and training dollars) into that portion of the welfare case load to insure when they did return to the labor market it was at a higher paying job.

I came to this "social experiment" expecting it to fail. While it is true some people fall through the cracks, the vast majority of people who need welfare get better assistance (albeit for a shorter period of time) than before.

Unfortunately that may pass since the 2006 reauthorization of welfare reform appears to have returned us to pre 1996 status by not adequately funding training and child care and going back to some stupid regulations all states mush observe.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. Between the Clinton worshipers and the Clinton haters lies the truth. n/t
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. He's dealing with those things now...
and it's not like he wasn't kept entangled in other problems...
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Clinton did the best he could
with the GOP Crap Congress hounding him 24/7
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question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. Of course! No, he is not an angel
no one is, especially a politician. The nature of politicians is that they think differently of themselves than most of us, regular folks.

He is human. Had we known much about FDR or Kennedy, even Lincoln at the time, we would have criticized them, too. I wish that he kept his zipper in place once he established himself as a womanizer; I wish that he did not interrupt his NH campaign to send a mentally challenged man to his execution.

But he is someone that even now shows how he cares about the ones that society choose to ignore, or, worse, that our CEOs think that are "genetically inferior."

He returned the Democrats to the White House, he governed over national prosperity that lifted everyone, not just the wealthy, as we see now.

He at least tried to face gay's rights and health care and women's right to privacy, all, without making them a "wedge" issues either way.

Growing up poor himself, he'd never placed himself above others regardless of race, religion, or social status.

And, my weakness, he is a master of the word. Listening to him a few weeks ago at Georgetown was a celebration of intelligence, caring, and, yes, political savvy.
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Mend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. yes....as someone who lived through Nixon, Reagan, and
Bush I, having a Democratic president capable of winning and staying in office for 8 years was wonderful. I felt safe to be an American. All the things since then should show people that whatever gripes you have against the Clintons, compared to life now, he is heroic.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Except the only reason we are suffering Bush2 now is Clinton's coverups for Bush1
Mr. Parry is allowing this article to be reprinted in full - you may also repost at other forums you visit or on your sites. It is THAT important to help citizens to understand what the stakes are in all of this.

This is not about arguing for impeachment - it's about getting the truth out so events like a Bush presidency, 9-11 and Iraq war can NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

Democrats, the Truth Still Matters!
By Robert Parry
(First Posted May 11, 2006)

Editor's Note: With the Democratic victories in the House and Senate, there is finally the opportunity to demand answers from the Bush administration about important questions, ranging from Dick Cheney's secret energy policies to George W. Bush's Iraq War deceptions. But the Democrats are sure to be tempted to put the goal of "bipartisanship" ahead of the imperative for truth.

Democrats, being Democrats, always want to put governance, such as enacting legislation and building coalitions, ahead of oversight, which often involves confrontation and hard feelings. Democrats have a difficult time understanding why facts about past events matter when there are problems in the present and challenges in the future.

Given that proclivity, we are re-posting a story from last May that examined why President Bill Clinton and the last Democratic congressional majority (in 1993-94) shied away from a fight over key historical scandals from the Reagan-Bush-I years -- and the high price the Democrats paid for that decision:

My book, Secrecy & Privilege, opens with a scene in spring 1994 when a guest at a White House social event asks Bill Clinton why his administration didn’t pursue unresolved scandals from the Reagan-Bush era, such as the Iraqgate secret support for Saddam Hussein’s government and clandestine arms shipments to Iran.

Clinton responds to the questions from the guest, documentary filmmaker Stuart Sender, by saying, in effect, that those historical questions had to take a back seat to Clinton’s domestic agenda and his desire for greater bipartisanship with the Republicans.

Clinton “didn’t feel that it was a good idea to pursue these investigations because he was going to have to work with these people,” Sender told me in an interview. “He was going to try to work with these guys, compromise, build working relationships.”

Clinton’s relatively low regard for the value of truth and accountability is relevant again today because other centrist Democrats are urging their party to give George W. Bush’s administration a similar pass if the Democrats win one or both houses of Congress.

Reporting about a booklet issued by the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank of the Democratic Leadership Council, the Washington Post wrote, “these centrist Democrats … warned against calls to launch investigations into past administration decisions if Democrats gain control of the House or Senate in the November elections.”

These Democrats also called on the party to reject its “non-interventionist left” wing, which opposed the Iraq War and which wants Bush held accountable for the deceptions that surrounded it.

“Many of us are disturbed by the calls for investigations or even impeachment as the defining vision for our party for what we would do if we get back into office,” said pollster Jeremy Rosner, calling such an approach backward-looking.

Yet, before Democrats endorse the DLC’s don’t-look-back advice, they might want to examine the consequences of Clinton’s decision in 1993-94 to help the Republicans sweep the Reagan-Bush scandals under the rug. Most of what Clinton hoped for – bipartisanship and support for his domestic policies – never materialized.

‘Politicized’ CIA

After winning Election 1992, Clinton also rebuffed appeals from members of the U.S. intelligence community to reverse the Reagan-Bush “politicization” of the CIA’s analytical division by rebuilding the ethos of objective analysis even when it goes against a President’s desires.

Instead, in another accommodating gesture, Clinton gave the CIA director’s job to right-wing Democrat, James Woolsey, who had close ties to the Reagan-Bush administration and especially to its neoconservatives.

One senior Democrat told me Clinton picked Woolsey as a reward to the neocon-leaning editors of the New Republic for backing Clinton in Election 1992.

“I told that the New Republic hadn’t brought them enough votes to win a single precinct,” the senior Democrat said. “But they kept saying that they owed this to the editors of the New Republic.”

During his tenure at the CIA, Woolsey did next to nothing to address the CIA’s “politicization” issue, intelligence analysts said. Woolsey also never gained Clinton’s confidence and – after several CIA scandals – was out of the job by January 1995.

At the time of that White House chat with Stuart Sender, Clinton thought that his see-no-evil approach toward the Reagan-Bush era would give him an edge in fulfilling his campaign promise to “focus like a laser beam” on the economy.

He was taking on other major domestic challenges, too, like cutting the federal deficit and pushing a national health insurance plan developed by First Lady Hillary Clinton.

So for Clinton, learning the truth about controversial deals between the Reagan-Bush crowd and the autocratic governments of Iraq and Iran just wasn’t on the White House radar screen. Clinton also wanted to grant President George H.W. Bush a gracious exit.

“I wanted the country to be more united, not more divided,” Clinton explained in his 2004 memoir, My Life. “President Bush had given decades of service to our country, and I thought we should allow him to retire in peace, leaving the (Iran-Contra) matter between him and his conscience.”

Unexpected Results

Clinton’s generosity to George H.W. Bush and the Republicans, of course, didn’t turn out as he had hoped. Instead of bipartisanship and reciprocity, he was confronted with eight years of unrelenting GOP hostility, attacks on both his programs and his personal reputation.

Later, as tensions grew in the Middle East, the American people and even U.S. policymakers were flying partially blind, denied anything close to the full truth about the history of clandestine relationships between the Reagan-Bush team and hostile nations in the Middle East.

Clinton’s failure to expose that real history also led indirectly to the restoration of Bush Family control of the White House in 2001. Despite George W. Bush’s inexperience as a national leader, he drew support from many Americans who remembered his father’s presidency fondly.

If the full story of George H.W. Bush’s role in secret deals with Iraq and Iran had ever been made public, the Bush Family’s reputation would have been damaged to such a degree that George W. Bush’s candidacy would not have been conceivable.

Not only did Clinton inadvertently clear the way for the Bush restoration, but the Right’s political ascendancy wiped away much of the Clinton legacy, including a balanced federal budget and progress on income inequality. A poorly informed American public also was easily misled on what to do about U.S. relations with Iraq and Iran.

In retrospect, Clinton’s tolerance of Reagan-Bush cover-ups was a lose-lose-lose – the public was denied information it needed to understand dangerous complexities in the Middle East, George W. Bush built his presidential ambitions on the nation’s fuzzy memories of his dad, and Republicans got to enact a conservative agenda.

Clinton’s approach also reflected a lack of appreciation for the importance of truth in a democratic Republic. If the American people are expected to do their part in making sure democracy works, they need to be given at least a chance of being an informed electorate.

Yet, Clinton – and now some pro-Iraq War Democrats – view truth as an expendable trade-off when measured against political tactics or government policies. In reality, accurate information about important events is the lifeblood of democracy.

Though sometimes the truth can hurt, Clinton and the Democrats should understand that covering up the truth can hurt even more. As Clinton’s folly with the Reagan-Bush scandals should have taught, the Democrats may hurt themselves worst of all when helping the Republicans cover up the truth.

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq, can be ordered at secrecyandprivilege.com. It's also available at Amazon.com, as is his 1999 book, Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth.'
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Yes, he was a breath of fresh air after those repubs he followed
Edited on Thu Nov-16-06 01:08 PM by lyonn
He was truly positive, not the fake Reagan positive attitude. Clinton had good ideas, could negotiate with countries everywhere, NAFTA, and the trade deals turned bad, but, they should have been modified after they started hurting the U.S. by allowing countries like China to deny human rights, and import fees, etc.. Clinton no doubt would have changed the framework of those agreement. Bush should have but, of course didn't. All bush could talk about (notice I didn't say Think about) was Iraq and the ME.

Clinton was under investigation from day one, had to spend some time defending himself from these frivolous charges. Turn-about is fair play, start charging Georgie for the actual crimes he has committed.

Clinton's era was one of the most "positive" times since WWII. The country's mood dropped from the moment Georgie took over, then 9-11 and the unimaginable happened.

Edit: Since WWII, forgot Kennedy, but his term was so short lived.
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Sammy Pepys Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. Lukewarm
I wish he had made the most of the Dem-controlled Congress early in his term. He can't be entirely faulted for that, but if anyone could've pulled it off.....

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Naturyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. He wasn't a friend of welfare, either.
I like the popular expression that "Bill Cinton was the best Republican president we've ever had." Clinton's Repuke-lite views on welfare helped him pass a GOP-approved "welfare reform" package which has cut welfare rolls substantially just for the sake of cutting them, with little attention to actually helping people. Clinton was a decent president in most respects, but we definitely could have done without his promise to "end welfare as we know it."
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Voted yes, because there was certainly more positive than negative;
however, some of the negatives were NOT insigificant - NAFTA, Telecommunications Act, DOMA, etc...I guess in hindsight he looks like a veritable genius in comparison with *!
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. As a President, yes.
As a person, lukewarm. It's impossible not to like the guy, but he's made a lot of mistakes.
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. NAFTA, DMCA, and his Bush Family butt kissing keeps him from being great.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. He's the most brilliant politician of our time.
... and a reasonably competent administrator.

Selfless public servant? No.
Progressive visionary? No.

He gets a "B".
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. I loved and defended him for years - then I read his book, and it broke my heart
.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. Does a duck Quack?
Hell yes!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. Best Republican president since TR.
Although I'm not that big of a fan of TR.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. I think he was very intelligent and competent, and a LOT better for the world than his idiot
successor.

And I admire his ability to keep himself and the whole government going amid all the vicious attacks from the right, ranging from a frivolous impeachment to calling what in any other industry would be called all-out strikes when Clinton did something that displeased them.

He wasn't as left-wing as I'd like, by any means. But probably he wouldn't have been elected at that time if he had been.
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SmokingJacket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
24. Positive but qualified.
He's far from 100% perfect and good, and I voted against him in 1996 (a stupid protest vote for Nader) but he's smart, basically good-hearted, more liberal than a lot of people, and I was not ashamed to have him be my president.

I think he's been compromised by the desire for power, which is the whole DLC problem.
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jpwhite Donating Member (178 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
25. he knew which battles he could win
The best thing about Bill Clinton is that he knew which battles he could win and which ones he couldn't. For example he didn't push marriage rights for gays because the country wasn't ready for it yet. Some times change is hard, and we have to continue to persuade people in America that the dems want to make America better. It takes a while to destroy the myths and fears created by the conservatives. Example: gays are trying to destroy marriage. That couldn't be further from the truth, but that's how they feel. We need to continue from where Clinton left off and continue to move America into the 21st century.

James
jpwhite@okstatealumni.org

ps. by the way Bill Clinton also read the briefings he was given....
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'd Vote For Him Again In A Heartbeat
.
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Alamom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Me, too!
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. My Mom Was Recovering From An Amputation During The 96 Election
Clinton's big campaign theme was "building a bridge to the twenty first century". I would ask my mom if she was going to walk across the bridge to cheer her up...

America was a much happier place...
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misternormal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
30. He screwed an Intern, not the country... n/t
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
33. Yes. Competent governance is a good thing. Send Bill back to the White House in 2008.
"Competent governance is a good thing".

Michael Moore, you have Martha Stewart's permission to steal this phrase.:-):hi:
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
34. Yes, largely.

I think he did very wellindeed given the conditions.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-16-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
36. He had a Republican Congress
Considering what they wanted to do, which we've seen in the last 6 years - and what Clinton got them to do, he did a pretty amazing job.

He's just not in a position to have to suck up to them anymore so I don't know why he does. Carter sure doesn't.
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