I think "dark forces" were behind the Murtha smear

[Target_For_Exterm]

I don't want to say anything bad about either Murtha or Hoyer. What I want to point out here is the contrast in views between these two with regards to the Iraq war. Murtha's plan for phased redeployment is well known. Here's a quote from Hoyer:

"After the first of four recent speeches by President Bush on Iraq, I stated that a precipitous withdrawal of American forces from that country could lead to disaster, spawning a civil war, fostering a haven for terrorists, and damaging our nation’s security and credibility. I still believe that we can – and we must – achieve success in Iraq. Of course, we have succeeded in the initially stated objective of removing the Hussein regime, and providing a context in which a democratically-elected government could be put in place. Its ability to sustain itself is our last objective."

http://www.hoyer.house.gov/newsroom/index.asp?ID=575&DocumentType=Op-Ed

I think Hoyer has the right to disagree about Iraq and form his own views. Those views don't make me think Hoyer is any less a Democrat. But I do think we need to keep our eyes open about whats going on behind the scenes in our government.

From the very beginning, I've felt that there is something a little strange about the desperate desire to invade Iraq regardless of consequences. This absolute determination to invade Iraq seems quite obvious. I forget the gentleman's name who some suggest was suicided in Britain, but he intimated that dark forces were at play in the run up to the Iraq war.

I see these very same forces at play in the smear of Murtha. When I did a little reading about Murtha's ethics, I found that Hoyer had his own ethical issues in the closet. Why target Murtha but not Hoyer? The answer: Murtha opposed the Iraq war, and it was unacceptable to the dark forces in our government that the Majority Leader of the House not conform to the Iraq war plan.

I've thought a lot about this Iraq thing, and to be quite honest I'm not sure what we should do there except I know beyond doubt that we can't continue doing the same thing that isn't working. I think there's some danger to our country if we just leave. There's also a lot of danger for our country if we stay and lose. In short, I think we're in a no-win quagmire.

Beyond this, I do believe that these "pro Iraq war" dark forces are behind the Murtha smear. What I don't know is what motivates these dark forces, or who they are. Are they loyal to the US? Do they have our best interests at heart? When they oppose Murtha, are they acting in American best interests, or some other interests that are not yet known that may ultimately hurt the future of our country?

In a free and democratic country, I don't like the idea of hidden factions controlling government policy. I want to know who's backing what and why. I want accountability when things go wrong. I want to know beyond doubt that those shaping government policy actually have the interests of our country and our people in mind when they shape those policies.

In the end, whether Murtha or Hoyer won the leadership battle, it looked bad for Democrats. This looks like a Republican win, folks, and that doesn't bode well for our future despite our majority.

We won the election, but it's just the same old same old in Washington. Nothing has changed. Policy hasn't changed. Political manuevering for unknown agendas hasn't changed.

That's what scares me.

[lovuian]

1. Definitely Dark forces

were involved

[dogday]

2. Yes Dark forces here, there and everywhere nt

[Target_For_Exterm]

3. Am I just being a little paranoid today?

Sometimes I look back on the good old days when our government seemed open and for the people, and I start to feel paranoid about what's going on in our government today...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I do think we should keep our eyes open.

[SoCalDem]

5. If you are like me, it was the 2K election that made me snap to attention

Before that, the political stuff just seemed so "boring"..I paid little attention to the details..

i think we are finally starting to pay attention to them, and yes..it is scary :(

[Bitwit1234]

4. Disagree in Republican terrority

Wasn't there a very contentious race when Boehner went after DeLay's seat. Why is this being blown out of context. Most times there is an opening for something like this, there are more than one person who wants it. Look at the Speaker of the HOuse when the republicans elected Hastert. How many were after it...Again this is a media spin trying to make the democrats look bad and all the bickering on the dems part only fuels the fire.\

It is over the House choose Hoyer and the dems should shut up and get down to business. Let the media try to spin unity which the dems should show.

[Orangepeel]

6. Hoyer just said that we need a new direction and he would support Pelosi's Iraq policy

jeeze, let 'em take office before you give up hope.

(and welcome to DU! :hi:)

[mmonk]

7. It should scare you. But don't be deterred.

[in_cog_ni_to]

8. Nothing will change.

I'll wait to see where Hoyer goes with the Iraq invasion issue, but just knowing he refused to sign onto Murtha's redeployment plan gives me a good idea of what he's going to do. "stay the course?" anyone?

The DLC is your "Dark Force" me thinks. We, the people, are just here to watch. They will do what THEY want to do.

[cooolandrew]

9. I think you mean Dr Kelly the guy who suspiciously committed suicide....

Murtha should very much be majority leader because he scares the right like crazy. Also whaterver his ethics doubts are miniscule up against the immorality of the war and all aspects surrounding it.

[Target_For_Exterm]

12. Yeah, Dr. Kelly.

I just think the whole "imperative" impetus behind the Iraq war is a bit strange. Why the desperation? What's motivating it? Because I don't know what's behind the desperation to get into Iraq militarily, I worry.

[Cocoa]

10. Murtha's ethics problems are real

you brush the problems off kind of lightly. If you are going to claim Hoyer has comparable ethics problems, please provide proof.

http://www.citizensforethics.org/press/newsrelease.php?view=178

<snip>

Rep. Murtha was listed in CREW’s report Beyond DeLay: The 20 Most Corrupt Members of Congress (and five to watch). As reported in the study and by the news media, Rep. Murtha has been involved in a number of pay-to play schemes involving former staffers and his brother, Robert “Kit” Murtha.

Eight incumbents in CREW’s report lost their races to ethics issues.

“Future House Speaker Pelosi’s endorsement of Rep. Murtha, one of the most unethical members of Congress, shows that she may have prioritized ethics reform merely to win votes with no real commitment to changing the culture of corruption,” Melanie Sloan, executive director of CREW said today. “How can Americans believe that the Democrats will return integrity to the House when future Speaker Pelosi has endorsed an ethically-challenged member for a leadership position? Rep. Murtha is the wrong choice for this job.”

Not only is Rep. Murtha beset by ethics issues, The New York Times reported on October 2, 2006 that he has consistently opposed ethics and earmark reform. Sloan continued, “Rep. Murtha’s opposition to ethics reform does not bode well for future Speaker Pelosi’s promise to enact ethics legislation in the first 100 hours of the new Congress.”

[MarkTwain]

11. Proud to have been one of those "dark forces"...

... at least as it pertains to this community.

BTW, there were no "dark forces." There was a serious concern on the part of many progressives that Murtha was far from clean. His severe abuse of the system of earmarks, his involvement in the ABSCAM matter where some people believe he only passed because the bribe was not large enough, and his overall apparent contempt for matters ethical - were all a big old Murtha train wreck waiting on the rails for the Democrats.

Moreover, the Sun will still rise tomorrow and we will still have a decided majority. This matter (except in the minds of some of our own keyboard commandos here) will be forgotten in two weeks and Speaker Pelosi will do just fine ramming a whole barnyard of shit down the throat of of the Cabal and its dim-witted Prince that has squatted, unchallenged for too long, at 1600.

It was not even close for Murtha. Kudos and thanks to the new Congress!

[Target_For_Exterm]

13. Why was Murtha the hero of DU when he came out

against the Iraq war (for an extended period, not for a week or two until they found out about his ethical problems) and now he's the goat?

It's the timing that I question here. And the contrasting views on Iraq.

If I were a "dark force" trying to get you to sign on to my agenda, I'd use corruption as a tool to do it. Find a weakness and exploit it.

I hope I'm wrong. I wish I could be wrong from time to time about the Bush Administration corruption and manipulation of the American people in support of their (anti-American) agenda. But they so often prove me right. That leads to a little paranoia on my part...

Sometimes I wish we could turn back the clock to the good old days when our government could be trusted (although watching them closely was still in order).

[MarkTwain]

15. Thanks for a thoughtful reply...

... the difference was that before, when he was addressing matters of war and the military, he was speaking from a position of strength.

As a Majority Leader - who is responsible for setting the political, strategic and the moral and the ethical tone of his body - he would have been very weak. When you look at his overal attitude on ethics, in general, his severe abuse of the earmarks system, as well as his past challenge in the ABSCAM matter, then he failed the test for such a position.

At least in my opinion and apparently the opinion of a vast majority of his colleagues by virtue of their vote today.

[sandnsea]

14. I am sick of "Dark Forces" running our govt

And I'm stunned at both the number of people who deny they exist - and more importantly, the number of people who KNOW they exist but couldn't see them at play here.

[blm]

16. Democrats don't even HAVE to have baggage - it will be CREATED out of nothing if necessary.

Look at the extent they created controversies for two of the cleanest politicians in DC, Gore and Kerry. They had to CREATE them and further the lies quickly before truth could catch up.

Anything - even a hidden W from a computer keyboard - can be blown up into a "trashed the White House" level of a story with mediawhores so complicit in pushing the BushInc storyline.