Vietnam history question

[fencesitter]

When the US gave up and pulled out of Vietnam in the early 70's, what happened? After years of fighting the communist takeover, did the north take over the south and sack the country? Did it all matter? I've never known. Now Vietnam is back in the news, Bush is traveling therre, their economy is booming. That doesn't sound like a bad thing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Well, Fencesitter.

After we lost Vietnam, communism rapidly spread through the rest of Southeast asia and then onto polynesia, knocking over island nations like dominos. It then spread to Latin America, and despite the best efforts of noble Contras, the United States was invaded in 1984 by a combination of Soviets, Red Chinese, and Cubans, who, thanks to the gun-hating liberals in congress, used gun registration lists to round up patriotic Americans. Thankfully, due to an elite insurgency led by Patrick Swayze, the occupation was ended in less than two hours.

It just goes to show you that we never should have pulled out of Vietnam. We were fighting them over there, so we didn't have to fight them over here.

[fencesitter]

2. Oooh.

I saw that documentary too.

[Cocoa]

3. I heard about that

I saw a documentary about it. I think the guy from Rocky was in it. :-)

[Coexist]

4. stunning post.

loved it.

[Cerridwen]

7. Great post!

:rofl:

:applause:

[demnan]

5. It was a disaster

we pulled out suddenly in the middle of the night, leaving our allies in the south in that war for the most part helpless. These are the brave people who later became boat people, people who believed in Democracy enough to risk their lives to come over here. After that war, the region was so unstablilized that Pol Pot came into Cambodia and effectively killed nearly everyone there who had a 6th grade education or more.

That being said, I'm glad we pulled out of Vietnam. I had one brother who served over there and it was apparent to my family that nothing good was going to happen with us being in that war. I feel the same about Iraq.

But disaster will happen whenever we leave there. We caused it and they will suffer.

[Astrad]

6. And who finally went in while the world wrung its hands

and put an end to Pol Pot. Vietnam!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Did You Know Pol Pot Outlawed Glasses Because He Thought They Were The Mark Of A "Cosmpolitan" Or

"Intellectual"

[SoCalDem]

11. Don't you mean Paul Pot?

I'm series, you know :)

:rofl:

[montieg]

8. Make no mistake, North Vietnam was a communist dictatorship

and when the north took over the south, a huge number of our erstwhile allies were sent to the rural areas for "re-education". Some were executed as war criminals. It was not pretty. Nor was our harried exit. I won't ever forget the pictures on teevee of the choppers taking off from the roofs with desperate people hanging on the landing gear. Others trying to jam into C-130's as they took off.

All because we propped up our own dictator in the south for WAY too long. Course--it's nothing like that in Iraq. They'll throw flowers and candy at us when we leave. Right.

[Bridget Burke]

9. Let's hope our new Baghdad embassy has a big heli-pad

A summary for those too young to remember: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War

[SoCalDem]

10. Yes they did take over..and now we are trading partners

Viet Nam is living with the legacy we left.. TONS of toxins dumped into their country.

The Vietnamese who sided with us, were treated terribly by the North, but after all these years, things have stabilzed..

Millions died there..for nothing..

There's a great series that runs from time to time on PBS "The Sixties"...covers that era very well.. another one is called "The 10,000 Day War" (I think that's the title)..

[Bluerthanblue]

13. sadly so RIGHT SoCalDem.... as

my 23yr old son said to me the other day- The folks that died in Vietnam, DID die for NOTHING- because, we learned nothing by their loss- If we had, we would never have allowed any of our troops to go into Iraq-

That long ribbon of dark stone with letters that is carved with symbols which can never contain the loss- can never capture the fullness that they seek to memorialize-

fifty thousand voices silenced forever

one hundred thousand eyes that no longer see, or shed tears of joy or sorrow,

Another hundred thousand hands that never got another chance to smooth the hair from the face of their love or feel the strength of the grasp of their newborn babe-

Fifty thousand hearts, that no longer beat in the chests of boys, men, women who were betrayed by those who held the power to send them to their deaths- or realize the folly of killing for peace-

Fifty thousand souls, who even in death, we dismiss- we give lip service to-

The real cost of war- the true loss to this world when we wage a war of choice- can never be measured, is impossible to calculate in dollars and cents-
No amount of money can ever replace what has been sacrificed to the Gods of violence, greed, fear and power-

The Fifty thousand named on that wall, don't include those who came home, 'alive' but dying and who continue to die, bit by bit, day by day- or the dreams, and hopes, and potential that we threw away-

And the grief, pain and loss of what is truly precious in this world, robbed from the families and friends that are left with little more than memories, folded flags, marks on a stone

What kind of memorial will we commission to hold these new sacrificial lambs?

"And how many deaths will it take till we know, that too many people have died?"

Another long cold wet wind continues to blow, and it never seems to stop long enough for us to hear....... or maybe we simply never really learned how to listen...

it hurts to hear

empty promises and

deathly silence.

[Homer Wells]

16. That was a Beautiful statement

and so sadly true.

Thank you!

[Bluerthanblue]

17. a bittersweet thank you-

wish it were something that never needed speaking, but thank you for hearing.
And for your kind words-

blu

[twilight_sailing]

12. 30-year-old bombs still very deadly in Laos

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-12-11-laos-bombs_x.htm

The gift that keeps on giving.

[tabasco]

14. Self-determination used to be considered a good thing.

Until the US decided we want to control the whole world.

We had to fight our civil war and work our issues out and we didn't want anybody interfering.

I hope someday the US stops trying to dominate the globe.

[On the Road]

15. The Thing to Remember is That

most "South Vietnamese" people supported the North. Ho Chi Minh would have easily won the elections that were supposed to be held in the mid-1950s but which the US canceled. So when the US left, the North Vietnamese army already had majority support in the South, and the takeover was fairly easy from a military point of view.

Officials and prominent supporters of the former South government were considered quislings and traitors. Like the Chinese, the Vietnamese did not engage in wholesale slaughter of their opponents (to my knowledge), but in "reeducation". Opponents were often forced to work difficult jobs in the countryside. The new government also confiscated the wealth of many ethic Chinese, who owned most of the business in South Vietnam, on the grounds that they enriched themselves by trading with the enemy. They were often put out to sea in small boats, which is some cases sunk, drowning the passengers. In other cases, they made it to neighboring countries, and sometimes to the US, where they became known as the boat people.

There were suggestions on this thread that the North Vietnamese were somehow responsible for the Communist takeover in Cambodia. This is false -- the rebellion was on the other side of the country and had been going on for many years. The US-instigated military coup and the US bombing of Eastern Cambodia were more responsible for a rebel victory. In fact, Vietnam invaded Cambodia in the late 70s to replace the Pol Pot government with a less radical communist/socialist government.