the BIG problem with the "As they stand up we'll stand down" strategy

[civildisoBDence]

Here's a simple reason to trash Bush's strategy of training Iraqi police and soldiers to take over the running of the country:

Every time we train a new policeman or soldier, there's a good chance he or she will go off and start fighting for his or her "side" in the civil war. We're effectively training both sides in a civil war, then sending our troops into the middle as targets.

The number of Iraqis who've been trained is substantial--the number who are actually working with the (still provisional) government is small.

Do the math, DUHbya. They aren't "standing up," they're shooting each other, and our men and women, down.

[link:www.newsprism.com|Newsprism}

[Ian David]

1. It's Phase One of Operation: Blame The Brown People

Otherwise known as, "They should take personal responsibility for fixing their country after we destroyed their entire infrastructure and their whole system of government."

[Martin Eden]

3. Blame gets us nowhere

We must be realists and decide what -- at this point -- we can do to achieve the best possible result in Iraq. Part of that equation is weighing the potential result with the costs of pursuing (or not pursuing) it.

I don't think anything can be achieved without a political agreement between the Shiites and the Sunni insurgents or without some genuine diplomacy with Iraq's neighbors.

Unfortunately I see little reason to be optimistic for these developments. Iraq, in my opinion, is pretty much FUBAR as afr as we're concerned. There are no good options, only bad and worse.

By the way, I'm a firm believer in ACCOUNTABILITY, which is akin to blame but with a different character.

[aquart]

2. It was delusional from the getgo.

But it sure sounded purty, didn't it?

[Gregorian]

4. How can civil war be thwarted?

We lost a half million American lives in our own civil war.

I sit here wondering if civil wars must be fought through to "fruition". Is it human nature to fulfill some kind of catharsis? Or can we step in and find some means of avoiding what is inevitably a horror and nightmare for all?

And we know there was conflict before we dropped our bombs on them. Maybe feeling the need to stay and help is an erroneous one.

I think we need to answer this question before we get involved or walk away.

Basically, what can we do? I think everyone is at a loss as to what we can do.

My best guess would be to have neutral arbiters. An international force. Not those with an interest in the outcome.

[bryant69]

7. No Civil War ever ends

I don't think. Hell we are still fighting the civil war here, some of us.

Turning it over to a UN force has always struck me as one of the better alternatives, even if we ended up leaving troops there - so long as they were under NATO commanders and not ours.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[sarge43]

5. The other problem - they essentially control events.

Always bad tactics to say "When you do this, we'll do that." It has to be the other way around or you are just reacting.

[lapfog_1]

6. I call it the "As they stand up, we get shot down"

policy.

Those mass kidnappings were Iraqi armed forces, using brand new shiny pickups (40 of them!) that we gave them, with guns and ammo we gave them, dressed in the Iraqi police uniforms that were probably made in China and that we gave them.

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Good one!

[Disturbed]

9. Kucinich 10 point plan

Kucinich 10 point plan

1. The United States must ask the United Nations to manage the oil assets of Iraq until the Iraqi people are self-governing.

2.The United Nations must handle all the contracts: No more Halliburton sweetheart deals, No contracts to Bush Administration insiders, No contracts to campaign contributors. All contracts must be awarded under transparent conditions.

3. The United States must renounce any plans to privatize Iraq. It is illegal under both the Geneva and the Hague Conventions for any nation to invade another nation, seize its assets, and sell those assets. The Iraqi people, and the Iraqi people alone must have the right to determine the future of their country's resources.

4. The United States must ask the United Nations to handle the transition to Iraqi self-governance. The UN must be asked to help the Iraqi people develop a Constitution. The UN must assist in developing free and fair elections.

5. The United States must agree to pay for what we blew up.

6. The United States must pay reparations to the families of innocent Iraqi civilian noncombatants killed and injured in the conflict.

7. The United States must contribute financially to the UN peacekeeping mission.

8. The United Nations, through its member nations, will commit 130,000 peacekeepers to Iraq on a temporary basis until the Iraqi people can maintain their own security.

9. UN troops will rotate into Iraq, and all US troops will come home.

10. The United States will abandon policies of "preemption" and unilateralism and commit to strengthening the UN.

[Gregorian]

11. It takes someone who understands people to come up with a plan.

I like his ideas. Of course, reparations would bankrupt us.

I have an idea. Instead of where it reads "United States", put "Haliburton". Let them pay. Oh, and the people who supported the war. They shouldn't mind paying.

[Lasthorseman]

10. Hah

Col. Theodore S. Westhusing! Go forth and Googleth!