HELEN THOMAS: "It's over for them & their big dreams of pre-emptive wars & conquest"

[kpete]

Friday, November 17, 2006

Neocons blame Bush for Iraq fiasco

By HELEN THOMAS
HEARST NEWSPAPERS

WASHINGTON -- The mid-term elections sounded the requiem for the group of neoconservatives who helped design the disastrous U.S. invasion of Iraq.

It's over for them and their big dreams of pre-emptive wars and conquest of the Middle East. If anything, this group has left America weakened by the tragic military misadventure in Iraq. They convinced President Bush it would be a "cakewalk" to invade and occupy Iraq but it has turned out otherwise. Those power-driven ideologues have learned that the price for their dream was high -- too high.

So much for their calamitous "Project for A New American Century," which laid out the agenda to transform several Arab nations to their liking. It also meant sending Americans to kill and die for reasons yet to be explained by the president.

The neocons now blame a dysfunctional Bush administration -- not their own ignorance of the history of the Arab world. They have belatedly learned that Iraqis -- like any other people -- will fight any foreign invader and occupier. History would have shown them that overcoming an insurgency in the form of internal resistance has been a losing proposition. Look at the experiences of such high-powered nations as the U.S. in Vietnam, the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and the French in Algeria.

more at:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/292666_thomas17.html

[wakeme2008]

1. Plus Daddy is against any more Jr mistakes.

IMHO

[AllieB]

33. Jr. screwed up Jebbie's Presidential Ambitions

I'm sure Daddy is pissed about that.

[Libby2]

52. I wouldn't be so sure!

Short memories.

[Vincardog]

2. Free Market lies are the next to go.

[lcordero2]

3. her declaration is premature

It isn't "ver for them" until EVERY SINGLE SERVICEMEMBER is pulled out of that region.

[elehhhhna]

8. It isn't over until their treasonous war-machine asses are IN JAIL.

ALL OF THEM.

[lcordero2]

10. along with every penny plus interest extracted back from them

and put back into the Treasury.

Not just for the last 6 years but also for every penny stolen from 1980 to 1992.

[natrat]

4. i dont think they gave a shit about all that

fucking smoke screen so they could steal countless billions. Nothing a good life sentence and some financial repo men couldnt fix.

[closeupready]

5. I love her, and she is so right.

And what's scariest is the lesson this war teaches those who are observing events from the sidelines.

[AntiFascist]

6. K&R, get rid of all the neocons, including Poppy! n/t

[hogwyld]

15. I would like to get rid of all the pukes as well

Hopefuly, the GOP goes the way of the Bull Moose party, and ceases to exist!

[LittleClarkie]

24. I don't think Poppy is a neocon. He's his own brand of heinous.

And how do you propose we "get rid" of them exactly?

[Amonester]

40. How about a "Special" commission to start investigating all the

facts about the criminal Bu$h(e$):
DU Research Forum: BFEE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x3087

A Justice Inquiry On All These Facts And Proper Follow Ups Is Long Overdue...

Besides: America Will Never Be Really Safe As Long As The Bu$h Family Will Continue To Get Away From Being Prosecuted And Punished According To The Rule Of Law. So Far These Criminals "From Germany" Always "Managed" To Escape Justice And They Will Always Get Away Scot-free Unless Their Treasons Are Exposed To The General Public And Their Crimes Are Punished (i.g., their arses are in jail and their fortunes are confiscated to "pay-back" the Treasury of The People of the United States).

Hope I Am Being Clear Enough.

[AntiFascist]

54. Who introduced the "New World Order" in his speaches?

Poppy only remains in a position of power through his son. Impeach Junior (literally or figuratively) and you will go a long way toward impeaching the Bush legacy.

[kenny blankenship]

7. Well Helen it remains to be seen whether

the new Democratic Congress can or will rein in the pre-emptive wars and conquest of the Bush Crime Family. After all der Fuhrer has a 6 year head start on them, and he thinks that he can swat them down for another 2, apparently, by going "full speed ahead" in Iraq and daring them to put their patriotism and their House majority on the line if they want to try and stop him.

[oasis]

9. Neocons Richard Perle and David Frum blaming Bush for "Bush's War".

How convenient.:nopity:

Helen is tops. I gotta get the issue of Vanity Fair that she mentioned in the article.

[Javaman]

11. Not quite over, they still have 6 weeks to go. nt

[LunaC]

19. I'm watching the calendar too before I rest easy. nt

[robertpaulsen]

12. I am becoming more convinced there will be no war in Iran.

Is it just a coincidence this story was dumped in the news the day after the midterms?

Nov. 8, 2006 1:32 | Updated Nov. 8, 2006 4:22
US official: Israel won't bomb Iran
By TOVAH LAZAROFF



JPost.com » International » Article
Nov. 8, 2006 1:32 | Updated Nov. 8, 2006 4:22
US official: Israel won't bomb Iran
By TOVAH LAZAROFF


Talkbacks for this article: 20

Iran's nuclear facilities are too vast to be destroyed by a single air attack so Israel is unlikely to bomb it to forestall Iran from developing a nuclear bomb, a senior United States official said on Tuesday.

"We do not have enough information about the Iranian nuclear program to be confident that you could destroy it in a single attack. The worst thing you could do is try and not succeed," the official said. He spoke in advance of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's visit to Washington next Sunday.

In considering Israel's military options regarding the Iranian nuclear threat, the official said one should not be swayed by the ease with which Israel destroyed Iraq's nuclear program in 1981 with a single raid against the Osirak nuclear reactor.

"This is a much more difficult problem militarily than taking on Saddam Hussein's program," he said. In Iran there are as many as 200 sites that are part of their nuclear program, although some are more important than others, he noted.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1162378347825&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[Jackpine Radical]

13. Not to mention the French in Vietnam as well.

The only ones who brought it off with any success were maybe the British in a number of their colonies--and the Brits fell on their faces in Afghanistan & China, to name 2 of their embarrassments.

[OneBlueSky]

14. um . . . it's about this massive flotilla of military might assembed . . .

on Iran's doorstep . . . and Bush is still president . . . and the Republican Congress isn't gone until next year . . .

[oblivious]

23. Right, they might still have a last gasp. All they need is a terror attack on the fleet.

[warrens]

16. Hey, I got an idea

Let's give Israel $100 billion in military aid, then have them make buddies FOR us. (That's roughly AIPAC's agenda.)

[Imagevision]

57. Bush will take the fall for the neocon groupies, it was part of the plan

Bush's Iraq war makes JFK'S Cuban Invasion look like a military plan of genius in comparison.

Bush stated 2 weeks ago that he was the only president who would have the nerve to order a Nuclear attack against Iran. while Poppy Bush renters the DC. scene to dump Rumsfeld and make whatever changes necessary to turn around the present shallow state of condition Washington currently is in and have all matters straightened out cbefore jr.'s return from cruising around Asia.

[Gregorian]

17. Bravo for Helen!

She even mentioned the PNAC. That hardly ever gets airtime.

Helen did her best to take a chunk out of their armor. I'm glad she has lived long enough to see this regime begin to crumble.

[blondeatlast]

37. A feisty 84 year old is the last best hope for quality journalism. nt

[Poiuyt]

18. Kick

[hsher]

20. She has such a sense of history

All hail the Grand Dame!

(Jeez: I wonder what it's been like for her watching the press change and become propaganda tools right before her eyes, with her long journalism history? Oh, to be a fly on the pages of her open memoirs!)

I wish I could write her memoirs. The 1999-2007 part will be *in-terest-ing*, n'est-ce pas?

[Cha]

21. Thank you, Helen! And if they had

been a reader at DU before the Invasion they could have easily picked up all the history of failed invasions.

But, they only saw what their greedy eyes would let them..OIL, POWER, LAND, KINGS OF THE EARTH, OIL, RICHES~ECT.ECT.ECT.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

22. Helen has seen so much ...

She's a courageous and remarkable woman. She's seen so much over the years, and she's not impressed or intimidated by the illusion of power and position. She's seen them come and go ... watched the rise and fall of many.

I was soooooooo angered by her treatment in the MSM after the press conference when she pressed * on why we invaded Iraq. None of her so-called 'peers' in the WHPC lent any support, or defended her right to ask a legitimate question and press for a real answer. She was ridiculed and insulted across the board by the TV talking heads, and the editorial writers ... cowards and poseurs, all.

I will be forever gleeful and grateful that Stephen Colbert stepped up and gave them all the smack down they deserved by highlighting her in his historical 'hysterical' WHPC dinner performance. I love Stephen Colbert for many reasons ... but that's one of the biggies.

[bobbie]

28. She and Colbert made great partners

And they were the only brave people in the room.

[bdamomma]

25. right on Helen you call it as you see it, and darlin you have seen

alot!!

[MzNov]

26. Thanks for this, and thanks for Helen Thomas !!

:bounce:

[pinto]

27. kick

[eridani]

29. Genocide could have won any of the conflicts she lists

In a backhanded way, losing them confirms that we haven't gone completely down the tubes as long as we remain unwilling to put genocide on the table as an option.

[Irishonly]

30. I Love Helen Thomas

She showed so much class and courage when questioning the WH. At a time where other journalist were kowtowing to Bush speak, she asked the hard questions and was treated horribly.

Pardon my stupidity but what is the MSN? I keep seeing it and I am pretty sure it doesn't mean the internet search.

[Binka]

31. Main Stream News

Otherwise known as CORPORATE NEWS WHORES! Welcome to DU btw!:hi:

[Irishonly]

34. Thank You!

Thanks for the welcome and teaching me something new. I was going crazy trying to figure it out.:hi:

[calimary]

44. And correspondingly, MSM is mainstream media. And Welcome to DU!!!

Glad you're here! We all learn new stuff here EVERY DAY. That's why we love it, too.

:hi:

There's a lexicon here somewhere that describes other acronyms like

MIHOP - Make It Happen On Purpose/LIHOP - Let It Happen On Purpose - re: 9/11

BFEE - Bush Family Evil Empire

* - the way some people refer to the wee cowboy, the asterisk reflecting how his presidency may be referenced in history books, for the way he originally "took" office under a cloud of suspicion and a technicality - a Supreme Court decision rather than the vote of a majority of THE PEOPLE.

Took me awhile to catch onto some of these, also, but you do get there.

[IWantAChange]

32. The Neocons total disregard for History was embraced by W and

over twenty thousand of our young men and women sent to Iraq paid the ultimate price. Their lives as well as ours will never be the same - theirs because of death or injury - ours because of what might have been - a safer world, a world without 1 billion plus people of Islamic faith looking at America as a potential enemy - and we now have a nation divided against itself because fear and fear mongering was embraced by many versus the truly democratic values of dissent and HOPE.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

53. Exactly!!

Posted by IWantAChange

The Neocons total disregard for History was embraced by W and over twenty thousand of our young men and women sent to Iraq paid the ultimate price. Their lives as well as ours will never be the same - theirs because of death or injury - ours because of what might have been - a safer world, a world without 1 billion plus people of Islamic faith looking at America as a potential enemy - and we now have a nation divided against itself because fear and fear mongering was embraced by many versus the truly democratic values of dissent and HOPE.

Very concisely stated.

THIS is exactly what their unchecked megalomania and avarice have cost this nation ... a price we will continue to pay for decades.

THIS is the very reason they must be held accountable!!!

THIS is NOT something that can be swept under the rug. It will NOT go away, and it MUST be confronted.

[moondust]

35. Who would want PNAC?

Nobody. It must be imposed. Nobody wants that kind of shit imperialistically imposed on them. This much was obvious the minute they dreamed it up.

Thank you, Helen.

[Orsino]

36. Wishful thinking, Helen.

The rich old white men who own the media and an army of lobbyists still run Washington. The election has bought us a window of opportunity, while they disengage (slightly) from the old majority party and begin making nice in earnest with the incoming Dems. Our reps, new and old, may be somewhat less easily corruptible--they'd better be, or my hope is vain--but they are not immune.

Money still talks. We have to shout it down, starting last week, if we want to keep our Dems relatively honest.

[mzmolly]

38. "The neocons now blame a dysfunctional Bush administration -- not their own ignorance..."

Love that line!

And With friends like the neocons, Bush needs no enemies. How very true.

[Imagevision]

43. The reason Bush was installed to take the neocon heat & eventual smackdown, why else

would the repukes allow George to be president?

Bush himself has said recently that he will do what no other president (Dem or Repub.) would do. (go nukkler against Iran)

[lyonn]

51. Neocons all rushing out of the woodwork to complain about bush

and his inability to run the war properly. Love it when they begin to eat their own. It's like reading a book and you get near the end and the chapter then is "Can Daddy save his Son"?

[OzarkDem]

39. Perle "underestimated the level of depravity"?

and said "an American withdrawal that leaves Iraq as an anarchic 'failed state' is not inevitable but is becoming more likely."

Yet, Bush and the GOP keep telling us the Iraq War is "winnable" and the news media believes him.

Such arrogance and stupidity has cost countless lives and much of our future security.

All because a bunch of armchair quarterbacks were too arrogant to heed the advice of experts who knew far more than they?

These people should be stripped of their citizenship and exiled.

[Amonester]

41. Not exiled: imprisoned (at the very least...), otherwise, their...

idiot (or/and criminal) "followers" will be back (remember, they own the media) sooner than later and they will want to start another world war for the unique purpose of lining their pockets with trillions our grandchildren (if they survive global climate changes) will be stuck with eternally.

If only "exiled" they'll manage to "come back" to start Vietnam 3...

[Pierzin]

42. Helen Thomas is a Beacon in the Darkness!!!

The Darkness that is the Bush Years

God, how I wish we had a parliamentary system, like the Brits, so we could change the national leadership, and be rid of the * cabal!!!

They are a pestilence on the national image, a dark cloud of fetid evil full of vampires and ghouls of the most heinous nature, truly something out of a horror movie, the likes of which I never thought I would see in my lifetime. Can it really be any more clear anyone paying attention that the cabal must go? This is America, not Weimar Germany! Or Argentina or Chile for that matter. The USA must change course and quit acting like a resource-hunting dinosaur from the 20th century.
Can we toss out the right wing talking heads who assist the cabal with their unrelenting propoganda campaign and the cheerleader liars who are all now knifing each other in the back that things have not gone their way??? Can we buy out MSNBC and fire that whole group who are unabashed partisans??

[calimary]

45. I have loved Helen Thomas for years. She IS the Grande Dame.

The Washington Press CORPSE should be ashamed of itself for not standing up for her when this bush bunch humiliated her. Bunch of weasels unworthy to touch the hem of her garment.

[DRoseDARs]

46. Paul Wolfowitz: When asked about Iraq, he replied: "That's not my problem." Famous last words...

...spoken before a war crimes tribunal. Right up there with, "I was just following orders."

[entanglement]

48. Wolfowitz should face trial at the Hague, with the rest of his criminal

buddies

[JAYCUBED]

47. REALISTIC SOLUTION FOR HOW TO GET OUT OF IRAQ

1. Apologize for our arrogance & hubris to the victims of our acts. Admit we were wrong. Ask for forgiveness, not for our own sake, but so that they can move ahead & rebuild their lives.

2. CUT our losses and RUN as fast as possible from this quagmire of our own creation.

3. Take the vast supplies of weapons which we will leave behind and spread them among every household in Iraq so that during the chaos which will ensue upon our departure, some of its worse effects might be held off by an "equally" armed citizenry: as it is obvious that the disarming of Iraqi citizens (by both Saddam & ourselves) is a major cause for the success of the death squads; most of whom appear to be rogue police, army & militia members with access to weapons that prey on unarmed civilians.

While this is hardly a "good" solution, I doubt any solution could be "good". This might be the best solution possible. There is no question that we need to stop digging the hole we are in any deeper.

[lyonn]

49. Helen is one hell of a journalist, few but powerful words. EOM

[Up2Late]

50. I don't think it's over until the so-called "Bush Doctrine" of preemptive War is Dead.

I don't know if Bush needs to declare it dead or the next actual President, or can we just move on without a declaration?

I don't know. :shrug:

I welcome any opinions on that question.

[illinoisprogressive]

55. Neocons Convicted

I want the neocons but, especially wolfowitz to be in gitmo. They dump any responsibility for thier actions but, they are the ones who bear the most.

[upi402]

56. "...for reasons yet to be explained by the president"

Cindy Sheehan wants that question answered and is lambasted by Republicans who spit on our troops for any political opportunity.

[woodsgirl]

58. Helen Thomas

What a role model for women. I'll never forget her sitting on the front row in the press room and asking Bush hard questions and asking follow ups while the rest of the comparatively younger press people were dancing round "the agenda." Then as Bush's poll numbers dropped, a few others asked a little more hard hitting questions. But she always stayed the same. Smart, courageous and beautiful.