Johnson talks of Vietnam War on newly released tapes

[ECH1969]

As the Vietnam War worsened and Democrats suffered midterm election defeats, then-President Lyndon Johnson questioned advisers in 1966 about troop escalation and military supply shortages, according to taped telephone recordings released Friday.

Johnson railed against "commies" that he said ran the New York Times and against what he characterized as the newspaper's criticism of the war. "The Times is run by a bunch of commies, and they want to get out of Vietnam and yield it to them, and I don't think I can quite do that," Johnson said.

McNamara said there were plenty of bombs — 265,000 tons of bombs either in Southeast Asia or on the way there. "Frankly, we're going to just snow the place under with bombs," McNamara said. "And I'm doing it purposely to make them cry, 'Stop.'"

Eisenhower, who was president in the 1950s during the Korean War, told Johnson that any public comments he'd made about the war weren't designed to try to tell Johnson how to fight the current war. He said the Korean and Vietnam conflicts were different. "Here is a war (Vietnam) that is the most nasty and unpredictable that we've ever been in, and it's just as much political as military," Eisenhower said.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8LF3E980.html

[Greeby]

1. Go here to listen to a treasure trove of tapes

http://www.whitehousetapes.org/

[ECH1969]

2. History repeats itself

[lcordero2]

3. Korea wasn't any different

A high school english teacher told me that the Korean War was nothing more than a grab for the tungsten deposits in that area.

[independentpiney]

4. Your high school english teacher was wrong.

Glad to here it wasn't your history teacher.

[lcordero2]

5. From his prospective since he fought in it as an MP in the

US Army. I'll take his word over yours.

[happyslug]

6. Your Teacher was wrong, Tungsten is NOT that rare a substance.

Korea has ALWAYS been a battleground between China and Japan. From 1945 till today, we stand in the same position the Japanese stood before WWI, Korea is to important to be in anyone's hands. The Chinese view Korea as the base for the Japanese Invasion of China, thus China did NOT want anyone else holding Korea.

Given that Japan (which means the US post 1945) did NOT want Chinese Troops in Korea, and China did not want "Japaneses" (i.e. US Troops post 1945) in Korea, Korea became a battleground. The Best Solution would be a Neutral Korea, but in 1950 that was not possible, so in 1952 Truman decided on a Division and set up the present border by military action. In 1953 the Chinese and North Koreas accepted this "border" as a temporary solution and the war ended. That truce still stands for neither Japan, the US or China wants anything else. Now a Neutral United Korea may someday occur, but only if all three players agree to it AND that will only occur if Korea is truly Neutral.

For more on Tungsten:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/pdf/circular/c930-o.pdf

[lcordero2]

8. .

http://www.jpri.org/publications/workingpapers/wp20.html

"In 1950-51 when American troops were shedding blood during the Korean War and South Korea was one of the non-communist world's only sources of tungsten, the U.S. government decided to buy all of Korea's annual production of this strategic mineral. Rhee connived to get the contract for his cronies, mostly Americans."

War has been used for the theft of resources for centuries and the Korean War was no different.

Look up Maj.Gen. Smedley Butler and see his comments about war.

[happyslug]

10. My Point was the Tungsten was a minor concern.

First and foremost, you had other sources of Tungsten, While the US was buying it from Korea, the US was also buying it from the Soviet Union, South Africa and other sources. Truman did NOT go into Korea for Tungsten (and the North Koreans did NOT invade South Korea for control of the non-Soviet tungsten production).

Remember people will trade for rare and needed items, the Soviet Union even in the 1950s needed Western Technology and was willing to trade Tungsten (and other minerals) for such technologies. And while Tungsten was NOT in 100% Soviet Control, you had Two to three other minerals needed for Jet Engines that were (and are). The US just purchased those minerals from the Soviet Union.

My point is Tungsten was in the same Category, unless the US was in a long war with the Soviet Union, the Soviet Control of Tungsten was of minor concern. The US had enough stock piled even in the early 1950s to keep up US production for several years. Thus the main problem was NOT tungsten (Through a minor factor) but the strategic role Korea has ALWAYS PLAYED BETWEEN JAPAN AND CHINA.

[bobbie]

11. Wow, I don't know the real reason for the Korean war...but I'd believe

Smedley Butler. The man was a hero. He prevented a military coup against FDR. Really honorable man who would be a famous hero in a sane country.

[lcordero2]

12. It's also one of the reasons why I won't join

the American Legion or VFW.

The other being how Tammy Duckworth's opponent got an endorsement.


:toast:

[bobbie]

14. Oh, interesting. I really need to research those institutions and Duckworth

Thanks for the tips. I know nothing about them.

[bobbie]

15. lcordero2, do you have an opinion of Eisenhower?

An overall opinion of him as president...of course with Nixon as Vice...

[lcordero2]

16. he was probably the only reason why

the Republican Party attracted any black people.
He was a sane man. Nixon described him more or less as a political alpha beast, then again, any service member worth their salt should be at least familiar with politics and history. The guy was a hell of a lot smarter than what he lead everybody to believe.
Toppling Iran was a bad move that we are still paying for today.
I'm glad that he took a swift kick at the Military Industrial Complex on his way out.

[bobbie]

17. That's kinda what I'm concluding...

Would you agree with my assessment?

Eisenhower was a relatively decent fellow (more so than Truman). But he was sick a lot with at least one serious heart attack. And he was a tad lazy and preferred a game of golf to presidential biz.

He also trusted the wrong people. The Eisenhower "presidency" was actually a co-presidency between "VP" Nixon (with Prescott Bush pulling the strings for the CIA), and Sect of State John Foster Dulles dictating foreign policy (with brother Allen pulling more strings for the CIA). However, Eisenhower was aware and complicit enough to approve the CIA crimes in Guatamala and Iran etc.

Once the CIA poisoned his overt foreign policy by sabatoging the U-2 spy plane and letting Eisenhower make a fool of himself denying it to Khrushchev and the world, Eisenhower realized he'd created Frankenstein's monster and left office with his military-industrial-complex warning speech to the nation. Good luck Mr. Kennedy; you try to clean up the impossible lethal mess Truman and I left you.

[lcordero2]

18. I don't think that he knew exactly what he was getting into

when he agreed to run for President. I think that he showed that when he made his remarks about the A-bombs that was dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[happyslug]

7. Look at the last Three Paragraphs of that Article:

"Luci Johnson, the president's daughter, was about to be married. President Johnson had a terse conversation that August with Liz Carpenter, a White House aide, about airline air-conditioning equipment that staffers had arranged to cool the unconditioned church where the wedding was to be held.

United Airlines, which was on strike, offered the cooling equipment, but Johnson warned Carpenter it couldn't be used.

"They're on strike, honey. They're on strike," Johnson said, in an annoyed tone. "You can't have strike-breakers out putting air conditioning ... Let them sweat if they need to."

Could you see Bush telling his daughter they will have to have a wedding in an UN- air Conditioned Church because the President would NOT permit strike Breakers to set up the AC units? Bush would go out of his way to get a strike breakers to do it.

[Selatius]

9. Just like Johnson's, Bush's presidency has been destroyed.

Not by Viêtnam but by Iraq instead.

Bush's legacy will be the darkest stain on America's record and America's standing and prestige in the world. That stain will not wash out in my lifetime.

Bush could drop 500,000 tons of bombs on Iraq. It won't do him any bit of good.

[Jim Warren]

13. The civilized world

marked by barbarity and arrogance.

McNamara said there were plenty of bombs — 265,000 tons of bombs either in Southeast Asia or on the way there. "Frankly, we're going to just snow the place under with bombs," McNamara said. "And I'm doing it purposely to make them cry, 'Stop.'"

The barbarity to carpet bomb, and the arrogance to think it would break the will of people fighting an invader in their homeland.

The Russians in Afghanistan, the Americans in Iraq.