Non-Americans who live outside the US: What brought you to DU?

[I Have A Dream]

I've always wondered how people who are not Americans and who don't live in the United States found DU and what they "get" from coming to DU. Any firsthand explanations would be highly appreciated.

:hi:

(By the way, I'm so glad to have you as part of the DU family!)

[wryter2000]

1. I'm in the US but

I thought I'd mention that it was a Canadian e-mail friend who told me about DU.

so, here's a :kick:

[caseycoon]

2. I'm in the US but I think it is because

the world is sharing our concerns regarding this administration. Bush et al are considered by many to be dangerous to the world. I would guess they are here to learn what they can & share their thoughts & feelings with like-minded people.

[Hav]

3. .

I found DU because of a link on Bartcop ;).
What made me check out Bartcop? I was looking for sites about american politics and humour a few weeks before the election in 2000.
I had two reasons: to learn more about this topic and to find stuff people on other forums might find funny (instead, I always used to upset the Republicans ;)).

[irislake]

4. Are you serious?!

Good God. Your maniac pretzledent concerns us all. He has really brought the world together for a common cause. It didn't take me long to come across DU in 2001 shortly after 9/11. I thought it was an inside job from the start. What in the hell was your Commander-In-Chief doing while the terrorist attacks unfolded? Just sitting there. That's not fishy? Dittoe Rummy and Meyers & all the higher ups responsible for protecting you. Rummy sat in the Pentagon till it was hit? My God! Get real! Who needs to know whether or not the towers were controlled demolitions; just consider what those responsible for protecting the country did when every second counted after all the warnings they had had. Too too obvious they were waiting for all the hijacked planes to hit. Is it really true that Ari Fleischer held up a sign for Bush to read after Andy Card whispered the country was under attack (as if he didn't know that even before he got to the school) "DON'T SAY ANYTHING YET"? Who was giving the orders? Cheney? Encroyable. Imagine what a disappointment it must have been for them when the plane that was meant to hit the Capital Building crashed in Pennsylvania. What to do then? Could they go ahead and declare martial law anyway? The shadow government was ready. Naw, too risky. So what did they do to discombobulate the Democratic senators etc? The Anthrax ploy. That stopped them from going into their offices and handling business for a month. Worried about the press being too suspicious and asking too many questions? Give reporters a bit of the ole anthrax too. But God the American people cut them a lot of slack. They acted like guilty people, folks, right from the start and everything they have done since has only confirmed it for me. It boggles my mind anybody thinks the official story is true. That was one thing that made me take an interest in American affairs. The second was the NeoCon maniacs and PNAC. Now didn't the world just love that? No country must be permitted to challenge American dominance? Not that Canada even wants to be dominant. But those Vulcans are dangerous. (And nuts!) Then your genius Pretzledent says you are either with him or you are a terrorist sympathizer. I don't know any Canadian ---- not ONE who is not more worried about what the American government does than what our own politicians get up to. You can bet not many of us wanted to attack Iraq. I didn't even want us to go into Afghanistan. I followed events and know that Bush was planning to attack the Taliban prior to 9/11 and went in on schedule. It wasn't about Bin Laden, who was offered up by the Taliban and he ignored it but about UNICOL, Enron and the pipeline. Your political events even concern people who have never had a political bone in their body before.I was devastated when the 2004 election was stolen. I was depressed for a month. I was amazed to learn my youngest daughter, hitherto apolitical, was profoundly depressed about it for weeks. I know the feelings were shared worldwide. It's a small world now. Wouldn't surprise me to learn sometime in the future that the Iraqi woman who writes RIVERBEND reads DU. Who lurks? You cannot know. I seldom post but check DU several times a day. Have done so for years.

[irislake]

5. And on a personal note

my mother was American. Half my relatives are American. And my son married a Texas Democrat and lives in Texas.

[hootinholler]

16. Um...

Aren't Canadians and Mexicans Americans too? Clearly we need a better term.

-Hoot

[magellan]

24. Canadians and Mexicans are North Americans

What do you propose citizens of the United States of America call themselves besides Americans?

[Swede]

34. I didn't know the USA wasn't in North America.

United Statesians perhaps.

[magellan]

41. I didn't think it necessary to point out that it is.

And thanks, but we'll stick with 'Americans'.

[Adelante]

54. By that logic, for Mexicans

What would they be called? Estados Unidosians? For Swedes, what? Kingdomians? Once you start down this ridiculous path, what do you come to, an even more ridiculous path.

[stevedeshazer]

12. Excellent response, thanks.

:)

[I Have A Dream]

15. My guess was that most were here out of concern...

for what is happening in the world because of what the Bush Administration is doing. However, I wondered if there were other reasons, and I was also interested in how you found DU.

I'm not naive; I realize that the rest of the world is seriously impacted by what the US does. However, I wondered why it was specifically DU that you chose to express your concerns and put your energies.

[irislake]

55. Can't remember exactly how I found DU

followed some links. The usual Bushwatch, BuzzFlash, MakeThemAccountable, Smirking Chimp and so on. I still check them out. Used to visit DRUDGE!!!! (Ick!) Well, you know --- all roads lead to Rome. That was so long ago when I first got my computer.

[Ghost Dog]

40. Every point right on the nail for me, irislake.

Greetings from Catalan-Mediterranean / Spanish offshore West-African lands.

Found DU while researching 2004 US electoral fraud.

For me, DU provides information, output, that helps me learn about and try to understand aspects of the (often seemingly so ill-informed, self-centered, media-manipulated, too-work/consumption/status-obsessed) US society and polity.

From me, I attempt every now and then to provide some non-US-oriented input - less-alligned, more internationalist, history- and geography-based, multi-polar and (within my own limits) multicultural.

And, of course, over here I try to defend what is good, even inspiringly great, in US culture, while at the same time reserving my right to abhor and to openly criticise all that is, um, shall we say IMHO so profoundly mistaken.

:hi:

[Morgana LaFey]

42. Downright enchanting

Thanks.

[Nikki Stone1]

44. GREAT POST!

The one thing you didn't mention about 9/11 was "Where the hell was the US military?". I'll grant you the first plane to hit the WTC, even though that shouldn't have happened either. But the 2nd? And then the plane to hit the Pentagon over 40 minutes later?

Come on.

[irislake]

50. Oh the stand down!

Too obvious, eh? And the lies they told to the 9/11 commission about it. Either NORAD or the FAA was lying. (Probably both.)NORAD definitely lied to the commission, that has been acknowledged. Nobody is fired for incompetence. All the "exercises" that were scheduled for the day. Transcript of NORAD has "oh is this for real?" and stuff like "this is an exercise, right?" Unbelievable that they were not challenged. Bush and Cheney testifying together all comfy in the Oval Office, not under oath, nobody allowed to take notes or have tape recorder. Mind boggling! Think of what they did to Bill Clinton over a blow job! Made him sit all red-faced and testify about his sexual behaviour on TV. God know why he didn't tell them "yes, I did it so eff-off!" The president and vice allow a terrorist attack to unfold while they blatantly twiddle their tumbs and they get off being big heroes. Well at least, post Katrina they ain't heroes any more. Sheesh! I don't know why they are arguing away about whether the WTC towers were brought down by explosives. The rest is too fishy. It looks incriminating that FEMA was on the scene the night BEFORE (yes they tried to deny it) (for an "exercise") and whoosh all the evidence is whisked away to a spot where we can never prove whether explosives were involved. That was a crime scene , folks, and your government removed the evidence! They still vilify folks who don't believe the official story but only 16% now do. So will they get away with it? Probably.

[onecent]

52. Excellent post! Welcome to DU! n/t

[BelgianMadCow]

6. Belgium signing in

I got to DU via a link on a site with bushisms, by PoliTex if I recal correctly.
This at a time short after the 2000 selection, which I had followed on TV and had left me flabbergasted.
I was looking for sane americans and I found them here.

DU to me is a politically savvy crowd, often ahead of the curve and a wonderful progressive community.
It kinda feels like my online home but I too often wonder what exactly I got out of the hours on end being on DU :-)

:hi:

[KT2000]

7. Peace of mind??

The most frightening days I spent were immediately after the 2000 election when I thought the entire country had gone mad.
I have to check in to DU several times a day to remind myself that there are still people with heart and intellect too.
I know some of the investigative work done on this board has been top rate. Jeff Gannon - Mark Foley - the freeper bomber! TV is not this good!

Oh yeah - as a lace fanatic I love your Belgium lace!

:hi:

[BelgianMadCow]

9. "to remind myself that there are still people with heart and intellect too."

exactly.

I'm 5 min from Bruges, so you would be tempted when living here :-)

:hi:

[KitSileya]

8. Goodness, it's been so long I don't remember how.

I believe I registered in 2002, but I visited the site some time before that, because I know I was here on 9/11. I probably found it during or after the selection brouhaha. I lived in the US 1999-2000, and was very interested in the 2000 election. That's when I started frequenting liberal websites, and while I'm thinking of it, perhaps a second-degree link from commondreams.org?

I live in Norway, and as you can see, I'm not the most prolific poster, partly because I've been without home internet access for some years since 2002, but I currently visit DU every day, often many times. It's my best source of American and international news.

[Orrin_73]

10. I found DU while visiting some progressive sites

in one of these sites I saw a link to a site called DemocraticUnderground, I got hooked on DU from then on. I dont post much on DU.

[Stinky The Clown]

14. Hello to you in Holland!

I have some dear friends in Breda. Actually, I have many friends all over Europe, but this particular couple are especially dear to us. They're both retired now, but we still see each other at least once a year. It was more often when he was working in the same business as me.

Anyway, my point is that I am always really amazed at how the Europeans I know are far more informed about US politics than most US citizens! Just this last election, I got e-mail congratulations from these friends in Holland, and from the UK and Italy about the outcome of our governor and Senate races! I was pretty impressed that they knew about even such (from an international perspective) minor office races.

[Orrin_73]

29. Hi Husb2Sparkly

Breda is about 90 km from where I live. The reason Im interested in US politics is just curiousity. I think that people who are really interested in US local politics follow it, believe me the majority dont follow it very closely.

[helderheid]

51. My in-laws live in Oosterhout and Breda - I lived with my husband and later son in Zeist

from 1999-2001 :hi: or :hoi: :)

[intheflow]

11. Kicking as a US citizen who has often wondered the same thing.

this thread is great! I love hearing how people find DU.

It's so shaming that we have this great international community, but I'm sure many of us couldn't "native DUers" even find Norway or Belgium on a map, much less know their native tongues well enough to follow their politics--as if we US citizens even cared about politics elsewhere. (This is, of course, a condemnation of the US educational system, and not individual DUers who, admittedly, are among the most enlightened US citizens I have ever had the pleasure of hanging out with. But still... I don't know Norwegien, for instance.)

Although, as someone recently trnsplanted from the north into the Deep South, sometimes I feel like I'm living in another country. DU is a place where I can get a reality check on the rampant denial that exists all around me.

:kick: to hear more stories! :hi:

[Morgana LaFey]

43. Hey! Speak for yourself!

:D

YES on the map; no on the language(s) tho I can say a few words in German and a few others in French.

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. A right winger on another site kept giving examples of DU 'kookiness'

and while some of the examples were rather silly, when I looked at the site I thought I agreed with a lot of people here. That was not long after the Iraq invasion, and since it was clear my Prime Minister had handed the British defence and foreign policy over to Bush, I thought (and think) that American politics is important for the UK, and the world.

Plus you Americans need someone to teach you how to spell English correctly, like "defence". :evilgrin:

[buddysmellgood]

19. Defence? Oh god. You should know better. That's going to start and endless flame war.

:)

[canetoad]

22. LMFAO. Don't get me started on spelling nt

[Swamp Rat]

27. LOL!

I was attacked by an American grammar nazi because I used the British spelling for the word internalise. I not so politely told him to BUY A FUCKING DICTIONARY! :D

[Skittles]

49. Swamp Rat, you would like my English mum

when Americans say to her, "I love your accent" she replies, "I'M SPEAKING ENGLISH - *YOU* HAVE AN ACCENT."

[SaveAmerica]

53. English/American?

We were watching Eastenders last night and Phil mumbled something, I asked my husband what did he say? He said 'I don't know, he was speaking English'! ;-) We have the most trouble with Phil, we're used to the eastend lingo now but he speaks in a mumbly lower voice than the others. We are hooked on Eastenders.

[Wrinkle_In_Time]

17. Until late 2004, I didn't know that DU existed...

... then I read a disparaging reference to DU on a www.fark.com forum thread. It was in one of their innumerable political threads that represent the worst of partisan propagandist cult-think (on both sides). Since I didn't like the right-wing blather that I found in that thread, I checked DU out.

Interesting timing (late 2004).

What I discovered was an often frustrating mix of: good reporting that doesn't get the audience that it deserves; things that should be reported by existing channels but aren't; under-exposed journalists who have great potential; wannabe journalists who are legends in their own minds; trolls; paid shills; people who accused others who didn't subscribe to their own philosophy as trolls or paid shills; people who should listen to their physicians and just take the medication; and unredeemable basket-cases.

You know... people. But people with an outlet.

Since then I have read DU on a daily basis, but have become much more rigorous in selecting the threads I open. I post rarely and recently took a sabbatical from posting since I developed an extreme dislike for certain trends and specific posters. They just made me angry. I can do without that.

I'm not an American, but I live nearby (Canada is the U.S.'s largest trading partner). U.S. foreign policy has a large impact on everyone on the planet. The current U.S. administration is a waste of hydrocarbons. The U.S. corporate media is a joke. The Daily Show, The Colbert Report and Countdown can only do so much (I refuse to subscribe to MSNBC and get my K.O. fix from C&L). DU satisfies part of that information gap, but filtering out the noise is a time-consuming exercise.

Would you like to know more?

[Swede]

18. I googled top 10 conservative idiots and viola--DU.

Been here ever since. It's a great source for news,editorials,etc. It's also nice to know that Bush is opposed so strongly at home,eh?

[laundry_queen]

20. I had a hard time finding this place.

I had an online acquaintance who lived in Texas that warned us all, in 2000, that it would be a disaster with GWB at the helm. That stuck with me. I was already thinking something stunk to high heaven after the whole Florida thing (WHY won't they recount the votes? What are they so scared of? Why isn't anyone MAKING them recount? WTF??) but I was still somewhat naive about the whole Republican bag of dirty tricks.

After 9/11 I remember being completely flamed off a board for saying that most Canadians weren't totally surprised considering the American track record of foreign policy. We stood by the U.S. of course, but we weren't surprised. Not a popular comment, and I quickly got a taste of groupthink.

I still supported going into Afghanistan, however, and was still pretty sure Americans would 'do the right thing'. And then one day I heard on TV "Iraq" and "WMD" and "9/11" in the same sentence. WTF? I was pretty sure Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and I was pretty sure they had no WMD's. I had a great teacher once who outlined what 'propaganda' was and how to recognize it. I remembered what he said, and realized that was exactly what I was watching. I embarked on a search for real information on the internet and stumbled upon Bartcop. I was there for quite some time, followed links to other blogs as well. I had become quite obsessed in the lead up to the Iraq war. It was only around the summer of '04 I found a link to DU. Didn't register until November though. Been here ever since. I like the message board style of DU, and I like how busy it is. I've learned a great deal from here and I like being a good 2 years ahead of the news cycle. :D

[canetoad]

21. At the risk of having this thread sent to the DUngeon....

From the very first I was never a believer in the official story of 911. Somewhere along the line, hungry for the research of other loony tinfoilers, Google turned up the DU 911 forum.

What I get out of DU? I have a constant, burning interest in the cultures of other countries; how they are shaped by their media, movements and politicians. It's a way of getting to know how 'the other America' ticks - the people we don't see on TV and film.

Yours in everlasting tinfoiliness :tinfoilhat:

[Swamp Rat]

28. Way'at canetoad!

:hi: from New Orleans :smoke:

[chknltl]

23. Nominated and:

Great question. This makes me wonder what it might be like if we had some DU members from Iraq and Afghanistan. It could be really informative to get some first person perspectives out of those two countries.

[Morgana LaFey]

46. And YOUR comment makes me wonder

what it would be like if we had an international DU -- or named something else, but a forum which was heavily populated by folks from around the world. It'd have to be in English if they wanted any Americans to participate, of course, but wouldn't that be great?

It's time for an international citizenry, I think. THEN we can take on globalization, and other horrors. (I'm not saying wait til then, only that a global citizenry would greatly facilitate turning the bums out everywhere.)

[malaise]

25. The 2004 elections

I was searching for material shortly before that election and found DU. I love DU.

By the way although I am not a US citizen and neither is my oldest sister (who was born in the US), my other four sibblings are US citizens and so are their kids (six of them) and grandkids (two of them). My great aunts, aunts and several cousins are active in the Democratic Party and all the sibblings vote Dem.

Add.

[TheBaldyMan]

26. Top 10 Conservative Idiots & Bob Boudelang, then I was sucked into the forum vortex

Also it's reassuring to know that most Americans are decent people trying to get their government to do the right thing.

[I Have A Dream]

30. Kick. n/t

[LeftishBrit]

31. I have quite a few American friends, and some American relatives

I have always been interested in American history and politics and became more so after Bush came on the scene and started fucking up the whole world, and Blair became his poodle.

I can't remember the details of how I first came onto DU; but I think that it was in 2003, through 'googling' something about the 2000 election, and being led here.

[Canuckistanian]

32. Sort of a complicated chain....

It started with Bartcop in 2001, I love reading him and looking at his various links, which led me to:

Buzzflash - then I got hooked on:

Daily Kos, Atrios and the late, lamented Media Whores Online and the Daily Howler. Then, from buzzflash, I followed a link to:

The Top 10 Conservative Idiots here at DU. I never even knew there was a forum here until I saw those links at the right side of the page with the sometimes outrageous and swear-word filled comments with exclamation points.

So, I said "Hmmm", and clicked on one of the posts. I registered the same day.

[Crim_n al]

33. It's a matter of "fighting them over there so we don't have to

fight them over here.

After all, America is by far the greatest threat ever to the survival of our Earth.

:evilgrin:

[I Have A Dream]

35. I am sad to say that I agree with you, Crim_n al.

:(

[Crim_n al]

36. At least on DU there are some people who see what's going on,

and who don't want their country to be the bullying idiot
voted most likely to kick the Earth to pieces.

One thing we "outsiders" can possibly see more clearly than those inside America is the intense barrier of lies, censorship, propaganda and misinformation that Americans have been brought up with for the last 50 years or more. Making the extreme right press so obviously a lying propaganda machine has been a clever trick, because it has made the more moderate press look believable and unbiased by comparison, disguising the fact that it's just another propaganda outlet, but a more subtle and devious one.

So I have the deepest respect for those Americans who have grasped the truth behind the smokescreen.

[Morgana LaFey]

47. Thank you

Very insightful.

Do you know how long -- how many hours -- it takes each day to search out the REAL truth? Thank God DU is here to make that easier, but not much less time-consuming.

Most Americans really are decent people. But you're entirely right: we've been tragically (and criminally!) misinformed and propagandized for a long time now.

[Nikki Stone1]

48. Excellent points about propaganda

I enjoyed reading your post.

[tlsmith1963]

37. Hello to Everyone Outside the US!

I am so glad that you don't think we are all completely insane! Not all of us are like the people Borat met in his film, although people like them certainly exist...ugh.

[tuvor]

38. I'm a nosy next-door neighbour. Like Trudeau said...

Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt.

I eventually discovered DU after realizing bush was hell-bent on invading Iraq despite the evidence. What do I "get"? The satisfaction of knowing that I'm hardly the only one who cares enough to make up their own mind and doesn't take any media at face value.

[I Have A Dream]

39. Anyone else?

:hi:

[Spazito]

45. I found DU via Buzzflash and the Top Ten list....

and have never left, lol. The bush admin's decisions are harmful well beyond US borders and it is important to keep a close eye on what's happening. I love DU's LBN with it's news from around the world and GD is my second favourite forum.