I used to be a cop (Deputy). A little insight into my nights at work.

[The Straight Story]

First off, I worked at the main jail in Franklin County, Ohio. I was not on the streets each night. I dealt with people after they got arrested. The street guys dealt with the people for about an hour, I put up with em the rest of the night. And that is where it gets weird.

I worked, usually, two main floors. The 'Zoo', which was the 5th floor (incoming drunks and such) and the 3rd floor (medical and felons) and sometimes the sixth floor - folks labeled one of the following: high risk (child molesters and such), and females (west wing, not my area after they left intake).

I have a ton of stories from that time, but a few stand out to me. A few which, I think, might help in understanding the mindset of some cops.

There were, to be sure, some cops I did not trust or like. Folks who let it all go to their head. Yeah, there are several out there like that :) I won't go into all that right now though. Suffice it to say I was proven right eventually.

Back to my stories:

One night I had two men come in on my floor. Suicide watch. Look in on them every 15 minutes. What did they do? They car jacked some lady out in front of her house. Drove her to a bank, robbed it, then drove to Indiana. They killed her. She had went out to start her car in the morning, leaving her three year old inside waiting on her. She never saw mommy again.

Those two men never slept more than 15 minutes while I was on duty. I woke em up to check on them. To be honest, I wanted to do worse. But it was not right based on my job. So every 15 minutes I banged on their door and got em up, and asked em how they were.

I dealt with people like this night after night.

I saw one man hang himself (I saved him). Another man, high on drugs, tear a toilet off the wall and smash it to pieces - cutting himself up.

One guy got into a fight with his wife, pulled a shotgun on her, and she grabbed the barrel and pulled on it - gun went off and blew her face off. The guy was a mess, his wife was dead, and he was probably going to face the death penalty. He wanted my advice. What do you say to a person in that situation?

I came into work one night and met a really nice 18 yr old guy. He was in a cell next to my desk (we had some cells there for incoming people who had issues). I told him not to worry, he was young, made a mistake, and he would be out someday. I asked what he did. This sweet young kid said that he carjacked a van and shot and killed the driver, and that he knew he would never be out.

And the list goes on. It was a hellish job.

I got issues with cops, quite a few I won't go into here. I saw corruption first hand, and reporting it cost me my job there.

But I know there are many fine cops out there too, who help people each day as best they can.

They face the worst in society, and try to do the right thing. Then they go home and cry about it. And then they have people try to follow them home and kill them (which happened to me).

Bad cops need to be outed. But not all cops fit that mold. The ones who tasered that guy this week, were bad cops. But don't judge all by the few.

I cannot even begin to describe the nightmares I lived some nights. Some people do well with it, some don't. I stood up to bad cops, and lost (though they were later nailed and served time).

Just wanted to chime in for the good cops I still know who are busting their asses for little pay, because they care. They are out there, sadly - they get no press.

[driver8]

1. Wow -- very powerful post!

Thanks for sharing that with us, and you are right -- it is easy to judge everyone based on the actions of a few.

Recommended!

[oblivious]

2. Excellent. Recommended.

[w4rma]

3. Thank you! (nt)

[SeattleGirl]

4. I agree with you 100%, Straight Story.

I used to hang out with a lot of cops and sheriff's officers. I was living with friends of mine; the husband was a retired cop. I dated a cop. Sometimes there would be several cops over at the house, talking about things, and this particular group of cops were very much like you -- dealing with hellish situations at time, but also disgusted with bad cops. Any good cop worth his or her salt doesn't like being tainted by tghe actions of the bad ones (and I believe there are more good ones than bad). I certainly don't paint all cops with the same brush. These men and women put their lives on the line, literally every day, and I have a lot of admiration for that. For the few who abuse their position, I have nothing but contempt.

[The Straight Story]

5. I have a friend in vice here (drugs)

She puts her life on the line on a regular basis. A good woman I worked with when I went into security work (I helped her get into the police dept here).

She fights the good fight day in and out. I cannot even imagine the hell she has seen firsthand.

We had special counselors to talk to, then we had internal affairs that grilled us on everything. Stress was hellish.

I remember in training a psych guy told us this: "People pay taxes for your salary, to stop speeders, drunk drivers, robbers, etc. - but when you pull them over they hate you. No matter what you do, you will be hated. If you enforce the laws people want, they will despise you."

He was right.

[Mythsaje]

14. And if you're enforcing laws that only 53-60% of the people want?

There's the question someone should be asking, don't you think?

[The Straight Story]

34. Indeed

but that is not the cops' problem, it is the lawmakers they should have the problem with. The cops do the job they are paid to do - enforce laws made by the legislature.

[Mythsaje]

38. I know...

Which is why I have some measure of sympathy for them. But, on the other hand, how does one balance the ethical dilemma of enforcing laws they think are wrong?

[bling bling]

57. A couple of cops I know don't arrest or cite people for marijuana.

They might overlook that they saw a small bag of marijuana or just dump it on the ground but nothing more than that.

However, I bet that most cops wouldn't do that with the hard drugs, regardless of their feelings about the law. Even if they disagree with the law, the fact is that where there are hard drugs there is crime, guns, death, and increased danger to the civilians who live in the neighborhoods and to the cops who work there.

But there are probably more police officers than you think who don't always enforce the law when it comes to less serious drugs like pot.

[Jed Dilligan]

58. Much like the Allegemeine-SS?

[DemReadingDU]

19. my son is a cop, I hear stuff all the time

Montgomery County, not too far from you.

edit to add: Most cops do a good job, a few don't. Occasionally, a few good cops get a bum rap, when the bad cops are overlooked. Hopefully, these bad cops will be dealt with.

[seabeyond]

27. i really want to understand. i really want to be able to have your attitude

i want to be able to teach my children. i do. years ago i tried to teach oldest when he was 1-2 respect and trust in police. that is a whole other story what we found with cops. we then went to firemen to get that cozy feeling of community.... i digress

my question is....

peace march in oregon. the people, citizens, were law abiding. they were breaking NO law. the police plan was to claim the mob threw a bottle. no one threw a bottle. all the cops knew no one threw a bottle. the COPS assaulted innocent people. ALL the cops on the street made a conscious decision to break the law and assault law abiding citizens. not one cop, not two cops.... all the cops there broke the law and no cop said NO i will not break the law.

explain to me how it is just a bad cop here and there. all these cops broke the law. if a citizen assaults another, they are arrested

[The Straight Story]

33. A few items here:

1. ALL cops does not really include all the cops on the entire force.
2. Bad is bad - get em out of there.
3. God complex. I knew more than a few who let the power go to their head. Each and every cop there that day should be sitting in front of Internal Affairs with a polygraph and tape recorder getting grilled, and it should be made public.
4. Lawsuits. That drove us a lot in the force. You had to be very careful and document everything because one slip up and there would be lawsuits. If these cops acted in such a terrible manner there should be several lawsuits which can bring to light all the facts of the case - take it out of police hands and put it into the courts and the public.

[seabeyond]

35. i think that if the top dogs have boundaries, and enforce them,

take them seriously, it would be the guide to allow not only those cops that arent that way to speak out and say no,.... but to stop cops from doing it cause they know they wont get away with it. i think those two examples show it is the attitude of the high ups. just like torture we can easily blame the low rung people, but.... they only did it because their comand allowed them to do it.

[DeSwiss]

6. Straight, thanks for sharing this....

I've had some history in corrections way back in the day, and can relate.

I also have known a number of cops as well. And I have a cousin who was on the Detroit force for 20+ and she was totally burnt out by the time she retired. She teaches in a community college now. Most of the cops I've known always seemed to have hard time relating to civilians on a social level. I suppose its what they see everyday that makes it hard for them not to lose respect for humanity after a while, when you see what people are capable of.

And I've always thought that because of this, that cops should be required to retire after 20 years. Ten on the street and 10 in admin and that's it. I think that's about all any human being can take. After that, I think for most cops its on autopilot the rest of the way....

[Vexatious Ape]

7. great post

I know it's way to easy to pass blanket judgment on cops--or any group--from time to time. They put up with shit that I couldn't even get close to dealing with.

[RoyGBiv]

8. I respect cops ...

A lot. I know, not from first hand experience but from first hand witnessing, that they have a hard job, the kind of hard those of us whose biggest concerns are office politics and the like could barely conceive.

For whatever reason I've know a lot of cops personally. One of my first girlfriends' father was a patrol officer, eventually a detective, then back to a patrol officer and eventually an ex-cop after he all but lost his mind investigating child abuse cases. He was a good guy with a good heart who simply couldn't take the kind of shit he dealt with day in and day out. He found himself wanting to hurt people who hurt others, children especially. He found himself wanting to pull out his gun and, using his phrasing, "turn off" the assholes who would dare hurt a kid. He was lucky in that he realized his weakness, that he was too involved and too emotional about it, and he got out before anything went wrong. And it's weird to me to write out those words. Being "too involved" in trying to stop child abuse doesn't seem like something that should be considered a bad thing.

I've known other cops that were the exact opposite. I, in fact, know a cop whose greatest goal is to live the life of Lucky Luciano, or some similar type. He sees the police force as his way into that, or at least he did until he started putting his plan in motion, got found out, and got put out of a job.

Cops are just people. That's all. Cops that do their job well should be recognized, often and with volume. Cops that don't should not be cops.

[Missy Vixen]

9. We know lots of cops as well

DH is a long-standing volunteer at a local police department, and does something for them that he has a limited commission. I am a former city councilperson in my hometown. Part of my job was working with the police department. We have known very few bad cops out of the hundreds we've met over the years. One of those bad cops is my FIL -- former State Trooper and frankly, batshit crazy. He hasn't been in that line of work for quite some time now. I don't think it was his choice to leave, and let's all be thankful he's not there anymore.

We have been lucky enough to know many, many tremendous men and women who put on the uniform each day and take the phrase "to protect and to serve" seriously. We're even luckier to call them friends.

I agree with The Straight Story. I think that cops should be eligible for full retirement at 20 years. When they risk their lives daily for the rest of us, let them retire before they've just seen too much.

>They face the worst in society, and try to do the right thing.<

I have a little story.
Our police chief is a modest guy and would never tell this story on himself. He arrested a man several years back for a variety of offenses. The guy ended up going to rehab as a result. We were at a community function a few years ago; I was gabbing with our friend the chief, and the same guy walked up to him and threw his arms around him. "You saved my life," he said. "Thank you for arresting me. I never would have gotten help on my own."

I submit that for every incident such as the ones in Los Angeles we've seen this week, there are 100 in which law enforcement goes out of its way to do the right thing. This does not excuse brutality or criminal behavior on the part of law enforcement. Those who break the law as cops should have to pay for their crimes. To paint all law enforcement with the same broad brush is wrong.

Julie

[Hekate]

10. Thanks. I was a civilian employee at a UC campus police station for awhile

I liked those folks, from the chief on down. It was years ago, but the people I knew then would not have tasered a student for failing to produce his papers in the library. I don't know what the hell is going on at UCLA, but those cops need to go find another line of work.

See my post over here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2756027&mesg_id=2756627

Hekate

[Jed Dilligan]

50. Why don't they need to go to prison?

They used potentially lethal force to inflict pain on a bound person. BTKops is what I call them.

[Mythsaje]

11. I know a guy who hates cops universally...

Considers them to be gestapo troops in the Drug War, either mindless drones under the command of their evil masters, or thugs involved in a corrupt, unconstitutional battle against the American people.

He's the ONLY person I know who cheers every time he hears news of a cop getting killed. Makes me wince, to tell you the truth. I feel terrible every time I hear about it. I always close my eyes and spend a moment in silence. I think about their families and I mourn their passing even if I never knew them.

But I'd never recommend the job to a friend. A good friend of mine, one of the coolest people I know, was going to apply to be a cop here in town. I did everything I could to talk him out of it. He's totally against the drug war, yet he'd be deliberately placing himself in the front lines. I can't imagine being able to justify that in my own head.

I KNOW it's a hard job. I've chatted with several on-line and know them to be just like the rest of us. I DO, however, think the system is screwed up and it's not getting any better. One out of four black men is either in prison, jail, or on probation or parole. And a HELL of a lot of those are drug cases.

Isn't the other statistic that one out of every ten children in the U.S. has a parent in prison or jail? Didn't I just read something like that here on DU?

My feelings about cops are in conflict. I've been harassed and treated like crap by them when I was younger, and met some cool ones as well. I haven't had any issues with them in a LONG time.

But I don't trust them. As a sensei once told me. "Respect everyone, but trust very few."

As things stand now, I've met very few cops I have any reason to trust. And that's just the way it is.

[roguevalley]

12. i was on a jury once with two guys who figured cops got paid to be

beaten by idiots. they were going to hang the jury and it took three days of talking through the evidence to get a conviction which was deserved. god almighty, what asses they were.

[Mythsaje]

13. Some people are just screwy...

This guy I know is a major marijuana activist in Alaska. And he HATES the police. He considers every single cop responsible for every innocent person killed in the drug war. He'd hang such a jury and laugh about it. Of course, the prosecutor would have to be on drugs to allow him on the jury in the first place.

The guy is very intelligent but fiercely independent. Does a whole sustainable lifestyle up there. Former mental health professional. Avid hunter. And he will NOT bend on this subject at all. I've tried to sway his opinion and it's so much wasted effort.

Simply put, we need the police. And if we can't see them as individuals, we're doing everyone a disservice because we can't help to change the system unless we understand that it's the SYSTEM that's screwed up, not those who are just trying to help the only way they know how.

[Yukari Yakumo]

15. "I saw corruption first hand, and reporting it cost me my job there."

I think that says it all right there.

Right now, there is a perception there is little to no oversight and little to no protection for the whistle blowers. Not only do bad cops give all cops a bad rep, but the abject failure to root them out and bring them to justice does even more harm.

And some people wonder why cops are trusted less and less every day.

[BanzaiBonnie]

16. Thank you. I know there are good cops

I was raised that the police know best. Then I met policemen who lied. Boy was I disappointed. But I knew not all were like that and most went in to do good work and for the right reasons.

I have a friend who is a psychologist. She's counselor for a number of cops. Police get screwed coming and going. It's tough work.

My daughter (nearly 21) is going into law enforcement. It scares the crap out of me, but it's where she feels she can do some good. I hope so and I'm trying not to dwell on the danger she's putting herself in.

[shadowknows69]

17. Great post StSt

k+r

[tavalon]

18. You have lived an interesting life

and the pieces add up to where you are now and yet, that isn't how they should add up. I guess that's what makes it interesting.

[Orsino]

20. It's a bit like military service in a combat zone, isn't it?

It's "just a job," but it immerses one in a community marked by violence and despair, in which the social niceties we count on have little meaning. Am I getting warm?

[bonito]

21. That last sentence says it well .K&R n/t

[a la izquierda]

22. Thank you for writing this

I get sick to death seeing people on here bash cops without qualifying themselves first. My bro-in-law is a damned good sheriff and my uncle was NYPD for 20 years. They've seen the most unbelievable shit, and still faithfully do their jobs.

I hope that an officer like you works in the jail when my friend goes in (a result of a "bad" cop).

[Toots]

23. Yep there are bad people in the world and I am thankful for our police but...

People that spend their lives "looking for trouble" somehow seem like the type of people I avoid. They are usually quite agressive people. I personally like the more docile type person....but I understand the need for these type and appreciate the good they do, I just don't wish to be around them....A lot seem to abuse the power they control...

[lumberjack_jeff]

24. Right on. My best friend is a cop

The job takes a huge emotional toll on a person. I've tried to encourage him to go buy a convenience store or something, to no avail.

Those who do the job have my utmost admiration, but it's apparent that there are two kinds of people who seek out the career:
1) those who take the role of protector seriously and
2) those who like having the authority to taser people as they see fit.

[seabeyond]

28. the fault is not with your friend. the fault and shame lies with the

administration higher up that does not have a firm line of allowed or not. and follow thru. you friend will not be able to do anything about it. and the citizens have a right to be pissed, an obligation,..... cause one cop that abuses the power is ONE too many

[lumberjack_jeff]

40. My point was unclear

My friend is the greatest guy in the world - I'd trust him with anything. Any time I have questions or problems, I call him.

The point is that for conscientious police officers, living with the kind of things the OP described, as well as pulling dead people from accident scenes, is a huge psychic drag. It harms your own health.

In my experience they need bullet-proof vests less than they need trauma-proof psyches.

[treestar]

25. Only the rotten people get press, it sure seems that way

A lot of the time. True of any profession. Teachers, priests, lawyers, you name it, anything that gives you a responsibility vis a vis other people.

[seabeyond]

26. oregon peace march on video.. citizens attacked and assaulted

by police "force". it was not just one or two police. it was all the police on the streets that planned to attack peaceful law abiding marchers (assault) by "claiming" they started it with throwing a bottle. the cops ALL knew no one threw bottles. it was simple in your face assault of law abiding citizens. it was not one cop, two cops....

this is assault. it is against the law

how do you excuse this?

not one cop said, no, i refuse to break the law

[immoderate]

29. It's a job that attracts assholes.

If you are a someone who wants to abuse people and have power, where do you go?

BTW, my father was a policeman, and beloved and respected in the community, but some of his colleagues were assholes. It's the nature of the beast. Teachers have a similar problem. I was a teacher, and one of the frequent conversations with my friends was about the bad ones.

--IMM

[InvisibleTouch]

37. If you want to abuse people and have power...

...you work at an airport. ;)

[Porcupine]

39. I concur. My experience is that it's hard to find a good cop.

I've seen cops unnecesarily beat suspects they were arresting on pot busts. I've seen sherrif's deputy's beat guys in jail for requesting medical care when their faces were swollen with dental infections. I've seen cops harass peace protesters who were going out of their way to be civil.

My little town has several holidays where parts of the city get shut down by over-aggresive policing where other places have proven the ability to deal with crowds peacefully.

I can tell you for sure that nobody who has spent any time in jail or prison in America is at all shocked at the Abhu Gharaib photos. They do about the same shit to your fellow citizens.

A corrupt cop, DA, elected politician or Judge is the only class of people I would approve the death penalty for. There is so much room for abuse that even a little abuse gets out of hand.

Good cops should be absolutely ruthless when they discover corruption among their brethen instead they cover up. F#@k the Police!!

[immoderate]

41. I wouldn't say that.

I think that some cops are people who are assholes. Not most. And certainly there are degrees of ass-holiness. I've had positive experiences with cops as well.

--IMM

[mongo]

30. Good post

Yeah, most cops are decent people.

And it must be hard as hell not to develop an us-vs-them mentality.

[jhain]

31. As the Mother, Sister, Daughter.

Sister-in-law and Aunt of a police officer and a former dispatcher, myself...I thank you for this.

[Laelth]

32. Cops are public servants who have very risky jobs.

And I agree with you, The Straight Story, that we don't pay them enough.

Democrats take some heat for being, supposedly, "soft on crime." In fact, we're realistic, and may of us believe in rehabilitation. It's important to remind people, though, that we are very pro-police. Police Chiefs regularly endorse Democrats over Republicans.

Thanks for sharing your insight.

:dem:

-Laelth

[InvisibleTouch]

36. I have a number of friends/ relatives/ acquaintances...

...who are or were cops, starting with my grandfather and on through an ex-lover with whom I'm still close, and several more distant acquaintances. My other experiences with cops, for instance at the site of an accident, have also generally been positive. I know there are bad apples in every profession, but I think most are good, and take the job because they want to make a positive difference.

It's amazing, when you think about it, that anyone can keep their sanity and their humanity when facing the type of things you describe, on a daily basis.

[truedelphi]

42. You worka hard thankless job so I'm glad

we can appreciate it here.

Bad cops are out there- and before such intense awareness of things like child abuse, domestic violence issues etc. it was REALLY bad.

Several times in my life I have tried to report some guy making his kid into a punching bag only to be told by BOTH officers that showed up that yeah he may have broke her nose but a guy has to do what a guy has to do.

Then a year or two later they are finally found out - for beating their wife or kid. It might even make the front pages of the small town locale paper.

The problem with working a job such as yours is the good to you can often times be invisible. You can clearly point to the times you failed - whereas it is probably a lot harder to see or know when things you did actually were able to make a difference down the road.

[Cleita]

43. I saw a perfectly nice guy changed into something else.

When I met this kid, he was a plumber. I was a bar manager. I called him whenever I needed his services. Bars have ongoing plumbing problems. He was pleasant with a great sense of humor. It was always a pleasure to see him. One day he came in to tell me that he would no longer be doing plumbing because he joined the Los Angeles police department. I didn't see him for months while he was in training. Then he started coming in on his days off in the afternoon.

The change was gradual but he started to lose his sense of humor and became increasingly more cynical. His eyes usually open and honest became increasingly beady and focused on everything around him. Then his marriage fell apart and he sunk into a depression that made him become surly and drink too much. He antagonized the other customers putting them down any chance he got. People just moved away from him when he came in leaving him alone. Then he stopped coming in and I never knew what happened to him after that.

I don't know what in the job turned him but there was a drastic change in the guy's personality after a couple of years as a cop.

[Solon]

44. You illustrate exactly why police are hated by many citizens...

Not you personally, you were a decent cop, a rare commodity in any time period, and you paid for that decency. The problem is systematic, cops, for some reason, are given a great deal of power over citizens, but at the same time, almost no oversight. Whether its cops on horses that mow down striking janitors in Houston, or cops that beat old ladies in Seattle, or cops that shoot a single protesting woman with rubber bullets from over 50 feet away in Miami.

I could go on, but I won't, the thing that pisses me off is that we are paying these people's salary, and they are supposed to protect us, but really, all they do is serve themselves, the "blue wall of silence" and all that other crap. They enforce the law while ignoring it themselves, not all cops, but it DOES seem to be a majority of them. This is especially true when cops break strikes, or break up peaceful protests, its not just one or two bad apples, but an entire police force that participates, a decent cop would just STOP participating in that shit.

I remember a course that was taught by a St. Louis city detective, one of the things he drilled into us was "proportional use of force". Cops are supposedly trained to use the minimum amount of force to subdue a suspect and arrest them when necessary. Tasers, as an example, were supposed to help cops, and rent-a-cops to protect themselves from using deadly force WHEN called for. Yet, we hear of cases of unarmed people who are tasered till they die of heart attacks, in situation where pulling your PISTOL wasn't called for in the first place.

For example, that student at UCLA is a classic example of rent-a-cop abuse, similar to cop abuse, except these folks just couldn't cut it at police training. That situation did NOT call for the use of a pistol, so the taser shouldn't have been used either. Tasers, like baseball bats and cars, in addition to guns loaded with rubber bullets, should be classified as deadly weapons, because they CAN kill people, especially with multiple shocks.

To be honest, I think cops should get automatic sentence enhancements when convicted of crimes, period. In addition to this, I would say mandatory mental screenings should be SOP through LICENSED professionals only, of course. In addition, free counseling for officers that need it, and for those that show violent or anti-social behavior, they should be dismissed from the force with mandatory counseling required. Also, citizen oversight boards, with full investigatory and arrest powers, who are NOT from member of the police force, should be appointed to investigate any abuses of power and corruption.

[lonestarnot]

45. All of your suggestions are too common sensical for implementation

by a batch of c students. heh.

[YOY]

46. Daddy always said there are two kinds of cops

1. The kind that joined up to assume a position of authority. (Bad cop)
2. The kind that joined up to do a job that needs to be done. (Good cop)

Problem is they both tend to stick up for one another and outing a bad cop is a trick.

None-the-less I appreciate the 2nd kind for the service they do...and the first kind...well, they know who they are.

[StraightDope]

47. Columbus can be a wild place...

I know, because my brother lives there.

In any case, why do you think that so many cops are just evil, rotten, sadistic people? In my experience, abot 25% of people who go into law enforcement fit into that category. Maybe more. What is it about the job that attracts so many people who abuse their authority?

[Jed Dilligan]

48. I don't judge all cops by the few

good ones.

[G Hawes]

51. I don't think that's fair.

I think there are more good cops than bad cops, even though I wouldn't even consider doing their job for love nor money.

[Jed Dilligan]

53. So then why didn't the good majority of the UCLA group

step in to stop the bad minority?

Were they a secret squad of all bad cops?

I don't know that they're all "bad people," but the structure they work in causes them to sink to the lowest common demoninator.

[G Hawes]

54. You'll get no argument from me on that point.

The lowest common denominator point, that is.

As I said elsewhere in this thread, I happen to think that there are more good cops than bad cops, but that doesn't mean I don't think that there are lots of bad cops. I have no doubt whatsoever that there are bad cops, and I have no doubt that certain police departments have large numbers of them.

California leaps to mind when thinking about bad cops, in fact. (There are lots of them elsewhere, too, of course, but California seems to have greater numbers of bad cops than other jurisdictions.)

You seem to have misunderstood me. I am no cop-lover. I know for a fact that some of them deliberately abuse people; I know for a fact that some of them deliberately lie and manufacture evidence; I know for a fact that some of them perjure themselves on witness stands; I know for a fact that some of them don't give a damn about getting the "real perp" as long as they get "a" perp.

At the same time, I also believe that *most* of them aren't completely corrupt, and that *most* of them do not deliberately railroad innocent people, or deliberately abuse innocent people, etc.

I guess I should have been more explicit in my views earlier, but much of it wasn't relevant to this particular thread.

[Jed Dilligan]

55. The problem is that the good ones consistently protect

the bad ones, which in most ethical systems makes them bad as well.

[G Hawes]

56. Many of them do, that's true.

The "thin blue line", they call it.

I call it bullshit.

Edit to add: They get taught the BS in training but some of them don't subscribe to the bullshit, though. Those are the ones who don't deserve to be tarred with the same brush. I wish there were more of them willing to step up and call it BS when they see it, though, instead of just sitting back and letting the behavior of the bad cops go without complaint.

[Bozita]

49. "Those two men never slept more than 15 minutes while I was on duty."

That statement says a lot about an awful lot of cops.

That "I can do what I want and you can't do a fucking thing about it" attitude scares the living hell out of me.

Just like the good old days!

[G Hawes]

52. Good point.

The OP kind of shot himself in the foot with that line.

Still, I think that there are more good cops than bad cops. Maybe the OP is on the wrong side of that equation for all I know.

[The Straight Story]

63. See #62 for my reply (nt)

[The Straight Story]

62. Sure they could so something about it

They could sue the dept.

But then I would note - it was my JOB to check on them every 15 minutes and make sure they were alive.

if I didn't wake em up, and they had killed themselves...well, it would be my fault.

[ConsAreLiars]

59. Bit of a sadist (just doing my job) weren't you?

"Those two men never slept more than 15 minutes while I was on duty. I woke em up to check on them. To be honest, I wanted to do worse."

You admit to this? You (then) might have wanted to apply for work at Guantanamo. I assume you (now) see the evil of that attitude.

(edit typo and to distinguish then from now, I hope)

[MissMarple]

61. Perhaps you need to borrow some moccasins to walk in...

Judge not, sweetheart...

Sometimes it is the system, the resources, not the person. We are not strident supermen, most of us are just regular people.

[The Straight Story]

64. See #62

Sadist? Maybe, but also protecting my ass.

I dealt with people like this day in and out. I walked a fine line.

Lawsuit if I didn't do my job, and lawsuits if I did my job.

These two guys were caught red handed. They are now serving life sentences. Yeah, I wanted em to suffer - but I also wanted to do my job.

Blending the two seemed to work just fine.

[MissMarple]

60. I am so sorry...what a soul crushing job....

:hug: Blessed be, sweetheart.