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Went to a HS football game the other night and a thought about the National Anthem/Flag hit me....

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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 08:36 AM
Original message
Went to a HS football game the other night and a thought about the National Anthem/Flag hit me....
Why is it always the color guard, ROTC, etc. carrying the flag at sporting events?

Why is our flag "married" to the military?

Yes, it was a revolution that gave birth to our independence but there's nothing our military is doing anymore to preserve that independence. They are now pawns to corporatists running this nation (into the ground).

Why can't the Chess Club or the Debate Team present the flag?

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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Brilliant!
I knew something always bothered me about the way the flag is displayed, but you've put your finger on it!
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. Echo --> Brilliant
You have it right.

The flag does NOT belong to the military! If it did then anyone not in the military should not be allowed to own or display the flag.
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TAPat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
3. What! And *dweebify* the flag?!
Edited on Sun Nov-19-06 09:05 AM by TAPat
Why do you hate America? ;)

Seriously though, I agree with you - our flag does not belong to the military and wannabe military.

Edit: too many "i"s in dweebify... :freak:

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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. LOL!
Best. Post. Edit. Ever. :rofl:
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
4. The Military is a pawn to our civilian Government
Simple answer is change the Government.
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pretzel4gore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. and why is our militaries a servant of the pig?
why can't some plain obvious contradictions get pointed out (enlisted men/women trained to fight for the 'country' at vast endless taxpayer expense yet they always seem to fight for the pigfat corporations/ruling elite thumbsukkers tapeworms!)
btw read Gore Vidals 'Burr'...a fantastically well researched story! re: pg 64 '"Attack!' I shouted 'the city's ours!" But at that interesting moment a certain officer named Campbell insisted on holding one of those caucuses so dear to the American soldier- and why not? When consulted in a democratic way, the American soldier invariably chose retreat...' or pg 78... 'In defense of Washington, I must note that at the time very few of us knew of the powerful secret forces at work upon him. There is evidence that he would have liked to destroy the city but was stopped by the local merchants (to a man pro british) and by the Congress at Philidelphia which, eventually, ORDERED him not to fire the city....'
see, it's the adults who've been pretending ALL ALONG!
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VelmaD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 09:40 AM
Response to Original message
6. I guess my high school was an anomoly
At most of our football games it was the drill team who presented the flag. And for those not from the South, I don't mean a military type drill team...I'm talking girls in short skirts who do high kicks during the halftime show.
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hack89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. You are not an anolmoly - that's how its done where I live too. nt
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phiddle Donating Member (749 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
8. Also, our national anthem is a war song.
"And the rockets' red glare,
the bombs bursting in air..."

I wish that the anthem were "America the Beautiful"
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Good point!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
9. I agree. The military budget has become a nation unto itself, with its own
self-perpetuating and self-protective mechanisms, which, for one thing, REQUIRE a major war every 20 years or so, paid for by the rest of us, to feed the corporate hogs who live off these manufactured conflicts. It's time we cut the military budget back by 90%, to a true defensive posture, and re-establish the flag as a symbol of Constitutional democracy, not of blood shed in the interest of Corporate profit. We have paid dearly for winning WW II. We have never demobilized, and the corporate/military leeches have just grown and grown to humongous size, and now operate independently of the people who pay the bills and who theoretically give the orders. Eisenhower--the general who oversaw our WW II victory in Europe, and was then elected president--warned us against this. He called it the "military-industrial complex" and said that it was a threat to our liberty. He was so right. But it will not be easy. The military corporations are even more octopus-like, throughout our economy, than the oil corporations, reaching into every aspect of our government and society and sucking the life out of us. And they constantly put the common soldier in front of them as a shield. To attack the corporate leeches is to attack the patriotism and courage of soldiers and ordinary Americans. The flag is now THEIRS, not ours. It is used to fool and trick people into ignoring what they have done to our country. We really have to ask, when was the last time the "military-industrial complex" defended us, in any true sense of the word? They couldn't even defend our nation's capitol--not even the Pentagon--on 9/11. They--or some element within them--let themselves be stood down. How does the Iraq war "defend" us? How did the Vietnam war "defend" us? These major and grievously expensive conflicts were both wars of choice! Neither of them had anything whatever to do with our "defense." And Iraq came along right on schedule, to feed the beast. And it is that beast that now poses a greater threat to our democracy than any terrorist group. It is in fact creating terrorists where none existed before, with its wanton killing and torture. Defending this country--truly defending it, eliminating wars of choice--requires only about 10% of current military expenditure. That's what we should aim for. But this will require a major effort of our society at demobilization, and a steely-spined commitment to restoring order in Washington DC.

Anyone wonder, as I do, why so many Iraq vets didn't make it to Congress in the midterms? I think all the corrupt money in our political system, and, above all, the Diebold/ES&S "trade secret" vote tabulation, were used to keep them out. Because they, more than anyone, know what this war is all about. It is not about "defending" the U.S. It is not about the flag. It is about the mind-boggling "military-industrial" hogfest that the Bush Junta unleashed in our nation's capitol, with the collusion of our own party. My advice: Watch what the new Senate does with election reform (that is, real election reform--elimination of the "trade secret" programming code) as a clue to the difficulty before us regarding all real reform. Prediction: The Senate will gut or veto election reform bills from the House, in committee. The takeover of our election system by rightwing Bushite corporations, using "trade secret" vote tabulation programming code, is now the key to keeping us at war. The War Democrats fully supported the elimination of transparency in vote counting, and secret corporate control of all results. This also explains the Carville/Clinton attack on Dean's DNC, which favors real election reform, and managed, through excellent organization and focus, to defeat some of the goals of the election theft industry in the recent midterms.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
11. Might it be because those in the military have DIED for that flag,
under that flag and in the name of that flag?

:shrug:
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. But they don't own any exclusive rights to it.
And how many protesters have died or suffered under the flag expressing their freedom?
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
14.  We need to make everyone more aware of these people.
Freedom isn't free, indeed. If it weren't for all the protesters from the abolitionists to the union organizers to the women's rights people and modern civil rights workers, our soldiers would have been fighting for a fascist state.
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bertha katzenengel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've seen several non-military groups present the flag at baseball games.
Usually kid groups (Girl or Boy Scouts, Little League, etc.) or marching bands and the like, but I have seen it presented sans military.

Maybe people like the military presentation so much because it is sharp, precise, and attractive. I know I like seeing the uniforms.

:shrug:
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Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-19-06 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
15. Why do we sing the National Anthem before every game?
In Europe, it's only done prior to International matches. I've had a few British friends comment that they think it's odd that we do it for every game.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. We should start doing it before the opening of the markets, or any meeting
or any school day or the opening of a new WalMart or ....

;)

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Balbus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
18. So who won the game?
Or were you in such a lather over who gets to carry the flag you forgot the real reason why you went out that night?
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Oh, my alma mater won with a goal-line stop at the end!
My daughter wasn't too happy as it was her future HS that lost :)
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Little Wing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-20-06 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
20. Recruiters offer to do it free, and they often don't screw it up
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