An epiphany: I will never again refer to Coulter as "He" or "Mann".

[11 Bravo]

My wife and I were having drinks last night with a group of some of our oldest friends, two of whom are a couple who happen to be gay, and are fairly active in the D.C. area GLBT movement. During the course of the evening, one of the other men at the table made a reference to "that fucking Mann Coulter". I saw our two friends look wistfully at one another, and then one of them asked, very softly, "Why would you use allegations about an individual's gender as a pejorative?" I can't speak for everyone at the table, but that rocked me back in my chair, because I know I have exhibited the exact same bigotry on more than one occasion. Never again.
I am, however, left with a dilemma. Obviously the words b**** and c*** are demonstrably demeaning to women. How then should one refer to such a hate and bile-filled pustule as the estimable Ms. Coulter?

[Kire]

1. Don't refer to her at all

It just gives her publicity

[liberaldemocrat7]

64. Call her a hate and bile-filled pustule.

But you would then invite pustules to protest your naming of her or you could call her

Coultergeist and then get every ghost mad at you

or call her Ann Coal Tar and invite the wrath of every cigarette ever smoked.

Your choice. Hehe.

[JerseygirlCT]

88. I'm with you. She thrives on it like the pond scum

she is.

or wait. That's unkind to pond scum. They don't deserve the comparison!

[OKNancy]

2. How about:

a hate and bile-filled pustule

[Greyhound]

5. Beat me to it. n/t

[Richard D]

8. I'm certain that pustules . . .

. . . would find the comparison very offensive.

[Pathwalker]

51. "Republican Spokesperson"

although I also like Annthrax Coulter. But, I like tying her to the Republicans - especially when talking TO Republicans, because it forces them to disavow her.

[tblue]

113. I second that one. Tell it like it is.

[Katzenjammer]

82. That would work for me. I also find that "that asshole Coulter" is rather economical.

Best, though, is to ignore her totally and just give a slight, dismissive smile if anyone else tries to talk about her latest vomitus.

[Beelzebud]

3. Annthrax

[file83]

7. That's my favorite - and the most descriptive - she's toxic to every subject she touches.

[Beelzebud]

25. And it's fitting now too, because she helped inspire the UniFreeper to mail fake anthrax.

[file83]

27. Ahaa! That's right. So it's sort of a double entendre now...

:rofl:

[tblue]

9. Annorexia

[file83]

29. Yeah, but then someone who is anorexic could get offended....

..."Why is it that her disease is being used as a pejorative!?"

Or something like that.

[Sapphocrat]

108. Which is true.

If she had, or was suspected of having, say, cancer, nobody would dare call her "Canncer" Coulter. That wouldn't be un-"P.C." but just way-over-the-top tasteless. Ditto "Annorexia."

[tblue]

112. Good point. How about Mme. Voldemort?

[Drum]

4. Bravo 11 Bravo.

As easy as it is and as giddy as name-calling feels, there is always someone slighted by such comparisons....

For that matter, I've felt overwhelming sympathy for chimpanzees for the last six years. :(

Thank you for your post.

[misternormal]

6. If One must refer to Ms. Coulter, simply use the name...

... that seems to be enough to turn anyone's stomach anyway...

Just My opinion.

[calimary]

100. Or there's always Olbermann's idea: "coultergeist."

With apologies to poltergeists and other spirits, ghosts, and assorted shades everywhere.

[Gormy Cuss]

131. Now there's a simple solution. n/t

[Hav]

10. .

But they have a point, right?
When men are called sissies, girly men or pussies, it's offensive as well for women.

So while it may be funny to joke about Coulter's gender, it will always be her hateful personality that makes her so despicable.

[etherealtruth]

11. I will admit insensitivity to this in the past ...

Posters here on DU changed my mind quite some time ago. I "listened", processed and changed my behavior. I was wrong.

[Tab]

12. Just "it"

n/t

[file83]

13. Her transgenderedness isn't the pejorative, it's the inherent HYPOCRISY of her character.

True that it's chidlish way of making that claim of hypocrisy, especially since no one has proven she's transgendered. I't only a rumor.

It's kind of like Bill Maher stating that Ken Mehlman was rumored to be Gay. His gayness isn't the pejorative, it's the inherent HYPORCRISY of his character stemming from his anti-gay political platform.

Another answer could be that: Whether she's a Man or a Woman, she's NO LADY. She's a disgusting human being, XX or XY chromosomes. Transgendered or not, she claims to be a woman, but she is certainly no lady.

That's the gist of of the pejorative. It can certainly be offensive to some, I can understand that completely.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

30. bullshit...the reference to her being manncoulter are pejorative

also she doesnt have to be a lady, i certainly am not, forcing women to be ladies is sexist.

the problem with coulter is that she is a inhumane, lying, piece of shit and a terrible writer.

she is racist/homophobic/elitist and a terrible human being.

that she may or maynot be transgendered or is not a lady is not why she should be hated.

[file83]

39. I disagree with you and I've already supported my argument. Doesn't mean I think

the accusation of hypocrisy through rumors of Anne being transgendered is a good/productive practice. No way. I prefer "Annthrax" myself.

Secondly, your definition of "lady" may just be my definition of "lady". So don't go assuming, why don't you just ask me what I mean by "lady" instead of attacking my postition?

If you had asked I would tell you that a being a "lady" (just as being a "man") has EVERYTHING to do with integrity, and NOTHING to do with sexual/social behaviorial stereotypes.

I see we already agree that Anne lacks integrity, so we should just leave it at that.

[ThomCat]

129. You haven't supported anything

except the myth that calling Ann Coulter a transexual is okay.

[mondo joe]

101. Baloney. If she were anti-male, then it would be about hypocrisy. n/t

[ThomCat]

130. Right.

1. She would have to be male
2. She would have to be anti-male.

Neither is true.

[buff2]

14. Simple

Ann the Mann.The truth is the truth,no matter how one tries to cover it up.Not only Mark Foley has been exposed for the hypocrite he is,so has a lot of other rightwingnut homophobes.I don't see anything wrong with exposing M-ann Coulter either. Her hatred of gays and anything close to "Liberals" is disgusting. S-he needs to be forced to come out of the closet just like the rest of her phony homophobic "christian morals" repukeliKKKans. I am really tired of the two-faced bastards.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

24. What proof do you have that she's transgendered? Seriously, you have NONE.

You just like calling her "Ann the Mann," which is demeaning to the transgendered community no matter how many times you try to claim it's not. You're not pointing out any sort of hypocrisy by calling her Ann the Man, you're just making transphobic slams, while playing the fool and saying, "Nah, it's the hypocrisy."

It's not. Just like making gay jokes about Foley & Haggard are homophobic. There is a right & wrong way to point out hypocrisy.

Making offensive jokes that are demeaning to entire groups of people is the WRONG WAY.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

121. Wow. I'm nominating that for immature post of the day.

:eyes:

[ThomCat]

124. You're getting way the hell out of line.

You're the one throwing accusations of being transsexual around as if it's an insult. The least you should expect is that someone is going to call you on it.

Haruka is an activist who has earned her democratic/progressive chops. What the hell have you done except whine, complain and insult?

You wish you have have the creds that she does.

[ThomCat]

35. B.S.

She may be a hypocrite because she talks about christian morality while apparently having an active social life. But there is no reason to seriously think she's a guy. None. Year book pictures of her going back to her junior high school days have circulated around the internet. She's female.

Calling her a man is insulting her for being transgendered. 1 - it's not true. 2 - Being transgendered should not be an insult even if it were true. The people who call her "Mann Coulter" while claiming to be supportive of equal rights are hypocrites. So how can you criticize her for being a hypocrite when you're one too? That's just... hypocritical!

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ThomCat]

126. You're repeating yourself. And it's still B.S.

I don't shut up for simple minds like you.

You can't bully people here. Present some facts or go back to the playground, kid.

[ThomCat]

125. How is it true when you've got no facts?

:shrug:

Just because you can post your fantasies online doesn't make them true. And just because you can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality doesn't make it right.

Ann Coulter is a hateful woman, but she's a woman. She's got a reputation for sleeping around with men.

If you believe that either of these statements is false then present some reason for that belief.

[Bluebear]

132. Simple is right. nt

[foreigncorrespondent]

133. Yes!

The mentality of some is truly mind blowing!

[Bluebear]

134. I'm constantly astounded. nt

[Bitwit1234]

15. Like Foley, Coulter is a hypocrite

Barney Franks is gay. He makes no bones about it, and most people are satisfied with that and pay no attention.

But what makes me so damn mad is that everyone knows Coulter is not a woman and had a sex change - or maybe not- but Coulter is constantly and everlasting making disparging remarks about gays and lesbains. That to me is not acceptable. So I would not find it disrespectable to label Coulter "Ann the Man Coulter" because that is one person who does not deserve respect. If Coulter came out and told the truth there would be not need for all the fuss.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

33. No actually no one knows if she's had a sex change and in fact, I think it's pretty clear she hasn't

The Adam's Apple is more pronounced in some biological women than others. Also, a symptom of anorexia, which I believe Ann truly has, is a pronounced Adam's Apple.

And in any case, there are plenty of proper ways to discuss hypocrisy without resorting to childish, bigoted jokes and names. Anybody who refuses to see that, most likely, enjoys making bigoted remarks at the gay/trans communities.

[JVS]

117. Count me in to your "I don't know if Coulter had a sex change" club

[file83]

34. Bingo. The pejorative is the inherent hypocrisy of these right wingers, not the orientation.

If Anne Coulter were FIGHTING for gay & transgendered rights, and then someone said "Anne the Mann" - well DUH, the pejorative would be against her transgenderedness. But when Anne is such a biggot herself, then the alias "Anne the Mann" is a stab at her hypocrisy.

Of course, no one knows for sure yet whether or not she's transgendered so it doesn't really work no matter which way you slice it.

[ThomCat]

More B.S.

Ann Coulter is Straight, and a women. Get over it.

She's not transgendered, and she's not gay or lesbian.

This is just straight people expressing their homophobia by pressing our identities upon her as an insult.

[file83]

47. Did I ever claim that she was IN FACT anything? Oh wait, let's read what I posted, shall we?

From MY post you just replied to, and I quote me:

"Of course, no one knows for sure yet whether or not she's transgendered so it doesn't really work no matter which way you slice it."

Oh, but here is what you said:

Ann Coulter is Straight, and a women. Get over it.

She's not transgendered, and she's not gay or lesbian.

The funny (dare I say "hypocritical") thing about your comment, is that you claim to have some absolute knowledge that Anne Coulter is NOT transgendered, gay or lesbian. So you're making a claim that you can't prove, while accusing me of making a claim I NEVER made.

Hmmm, how ironic.

I think you said it best: "More B.S." Oh, I get it, the title of your thread was about what YOU were going to say in your post? :rofl:

Sounds to me like you are just arguing with yourself and the straw man you fabricated. Have fun in your head on your own time - stop misrepresenting others - you seem to do that just fine by yourself.

[maddiejoan]

59. Look See NOT Transgendered.

That's HER in the front. Age six..

http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101050425/gallery/1.html

[file83]

66. OMG - are suggesting that if it LOOKS like a little girl, then it MUST be a girl?

Have you no education in human sexuality? Well, sit down, because you might be surprised to learn that there are ALL sorts of variations in human sexual development. Hermaphroditism for starters.

The point is that you don't know anything from this picture. While it may rule out Protandry, it doesn't rule out Protogyny. You can ASSUME all day long.

Go educate yourself on any of the terms you don't understand here. Then you'll realize how much of a hypocrite you are, in accusing me of being a hypocrite.

Seriously. :eyes:

[maddiejoan]

67. Considering...

I'm an intersexed woman (We don't use the term Hermaphrodite), I'm well aware of the subject matter at hand. Thankyou.

The fact is it is clearly demostrable that as early as age six she was being raised as a girl , even if intersexed, a condition which is as common as being a twin. (1 in 2,000 births are some variety of intersexed.)

Now, having said that --do you believe that continued assault on her gender is anything less than vile hate-spewing hypocracy when it is coming from the side of the political fence that is supposedly above that?

But hey, if you would like to get your yuk yuks off speculating on her "gender" which is obviously female you go right ahead.

I'll go right ahead painting you as someone who clearly has issues about gender.

[file83]

74. Frame it away.

Frame your argument with as much vitriol and acrimony as you need to in order for it to work.

I'm sure you'll find an audience that'll welcome your intellectual intolerance of even the mere DISCUSSION of what could possibly be a non-homophobic motivation for the term "Anne the Mann Coulter," but that doesn't mean you should pander to it.

Sure, I'm well aware of how it could be interpreted that way, but just for the sake of discussion, what the FUCK is wrong with someone discussing another angle on the issue?

I for one have stated in this very thread, concerning the "Anne the Mann" term:

A) I can understand why some would find the term offensive
B) That it's a childish way of making a claim of hypocrisy
C) It's not a good/productive practice
D) Her transgender state is only a rumor
E) The term doesn't really work anyway you slice it
F) I prefer the term Anthrax myself

Yet there you are, hiding behind your shield of righteousness, accusing me of, what did you just say, "someone who clearly has issues about gender." :wtf:

It's readily apparent that you see the world through the stained glass of the colors you chose to see it with. But I'm not gonna sit here and let you frame the argument the way I've seen SO MANY on the right (like Rove) frame arguements against us left wingers for the last 5 years. It just isn't going to happen.

It's disgusting to see this kind of intellectual intolerance and dishonesty and self-righteousness come from a fellow DU member.
There are more important issues to be DISCUSSING (if discussing topics on a DISCUSSION forum is still okay with you).

[maddiejoan]

80. Project much?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

86. seconded.

[LostinVA]

103. thirded

[file83]

90. I thought you'd never submit.

I knew you'd give up eventually.

[maddiejoan]

91. Is submission important to you?

[file83]

92. Is being in the wrong important to you?

[maddiejoan]

98. Why don't you point out where you think I'm in the wrong.

Instead of lowering the discourse.

You've already referred to me as a Rovian child and painted yourself as a victim of my disingenous rightiousness. How far would you like to take your little cruise?

[file83]

104. My apologies, I should have pointed that out back in your post #59...

...you know the one: post #59

It's the one where, despite the fact that in the previous thread I reemphasised the point that I had never claimed to know ONE WAY OR THE OTHER that she was IN FACT transgendered, you went ahead in post #59, and reached the impossible conclusion that the photo prooves that she was NOT transgendered.

Which was funny, because up to that point, I wasn't arguing that she was!

It's also ironic, because I've been accused in this thread (not only by you) for making claims of FACT that Anne Coulter was transgendered, when I never have. Both of you (ThomCat being the other) have then, hypcritically, stated AS KNOWN FACT that Anne Coulter is NOT transgendered.

How the hell would either one of you know that unless you were her doctor? The answer is you don't, and you know it, so you are wrong.

Is that up to your level?

[maddiejoan]

107. It would be

except that your position is stated as "since we don't know and can't prove either way" that the default position should be that it is okay to refer to her as transgendered in order to "point out her hypocracy"

You state quite clearly that even photographic evidence of Ann as a "little girl" isn't even proof enough for you, and have the audacity to actually say that *I'm* the one reaching the impossible conclusion?
Seriously? You're going to stick with that? So anyone, by your logic, is free to have their gender questioned? Or is it just people that meet some sort of pre-concieved notion you have of what a transgendered woman
must look like. Obviously people must prove to you that they aren't something you assume them to be. Lovely way to negotiate through life.

I have no proof that you aren't a piece of artificial intellience software, shall I assume you are then?

Get over yourself. Your position is as indefensible as it is ridiculous.

I know you aren't arguing that she is definately transgendered. You are arguing that in absence of medical proof that she isn't, that it's fine to assume she is --and further you seem to have zero problems with people who use transender as a method of insult. I suppose if you had your druthers everyone should walk around with a note from their doctor, and fully disclose all medical info regarding their genitals of origin.


So --the final answer? No. It's not up to my level.

[yewberry]

52. And there it is.

Thanks, ThomCat for getting to the "why" of the problem.


If we think about the intent of the expression, the problem becomes pretty clear.

If we were to refer in a positive way, we'd be apt to choose some word like "insightful" or "courageous," words that express something to which we aspire. (We'd also be complete idiots, but that's really beside the point.)

If we were to describe her in a neutral, objective way, we might choose something like "commentator" or "American" (though I suppose that's also up for debate).

If we are commenting in a negative way, we choose words that are things people percieve as being *not* something to strive for: divisive, liar, dishonest, unpatriotic, hypocritical, cruel. There is never any good reason that transgendered or gay or lesbian or queer should be on this last list--it's inaccurate and IMO homophobic.

[file83]

54. Your right, accusing Ted Haggard of being Gay was just homophobic...

:eyes:

Hypocrisy had nothing to do with it at all. Damn those left winger homophobes.

:sarcasm:

[yewberry]

57. Yes, "accusing" him was.

We "accuse" people of being guilty of crimes or hypocisy--you know, things that are bad. If you want to call someone a hypocrite, then call him that.

Being gay or lesbian or trans is not bad, regardless of whether Ted Haggard thinks it is or not.

[ThomCat]

71. Wait, we were talking about Ann Coulter.

Is there a reason you're changing the subject?

Are you claiming to have proof that Ann Coulter is Gay? Come on then, present it or STFU!

[file83]

76. Wow, Sgt. ThomCat, crack that whip!

How very militant of you.

[mitchtv]

89. Short and to the point

thanks Thom

[file83]

93. Yeah, it's easy to do that when he puts words into people's mouths

and then slays the straw man he just fabricated.

Anyone can do that. But can he actually support his assertions with facts?

Not so easy for Thom.

[ThomCat]

95. It's funny that demand facts, ignore them and then provide none.

Oh mighty ego-testicle one, where are your facts?

If you're so enamored with the idea that Ann Coulter is something other than a straight woman, prove it.

[file83]

102. ThomCat, examine your own bias. You have somehow come to the conclusion

that I have claimed Ann Coulter is IN FACT transgendered.

If you can find a post IN ITS ENTIRETY where I stated that she IS IN FACT a transgendered woman, I'd like to see it. Oh, and good luck with that.

It seems that you keep changing the subject to this straw man argument. I can only venture a guess that you are doing that because you can't handle a discussion which subverts your conclusion that any suggestion Ann Coulter MIGHT (read: MIGHT) be transgendered may have motivations OTHER than hate against transgendered people.

But that's just a guess. I can only stand back in amazement that you repeatedly claim I have made accusations of ABSOLUTE CLAIMS of Anne Coulter being transgendered when I have not, yet you are the only one here claiming to KNOW WITH CERTAINTY that she is a STRAIGHT WOMAN. Your only proof of said stated claim? --> Superficial appearances.

And there in lies the hypocrisy. A TRUE fighter for transgender issues would NEVER claim KNOWLEDGE of anyone's transgender status based on "superficial appearances". They eyes can be, oh, so deceiving.

[ThomCat]

127. Wrong

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2758403&mesg_id=2758472

In this thread, above, you discuss her Transgenderedness. She's not transgendered. There has never been any evidence that she's transgendered.

[buff2]

116. Who would have known we have a Coultergeist fan among us?

Keep defending "her" if you must. :eyes:

[ThomCat]

119. Who would have known we have bigots among us. :eyes:

I'm not a fan of hers. But I don't tolerate bigotry just because it's aimed at someone I don't like.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[file83]

45. WTF are YOU talking about!!?? I never said or implied she was PHYSICALLY ugly!!!

Jesus Fucking H Christ Jumping To Conclusions...

Get a hold of your self.

You are putting words into my mouth and I don't appreciate it one bit.

Need I explicitly say that Anne Coulter is a UGLY PERSON INSIDE!!??

I'm done with you - just needed to state the facts. I'm not interested in anything you have to say further, your a loose cannon that is WAY off the rails. Have fun with your train wreck.

[maddiejoan]

58. I would suggest

That YOU are the hypocrite,

Ms. Coulter is NOT Transgendered --a casual search thru google will reveal chi8ldhood pics of her when she was a little girl.
It is well documented and established that she is not a transsexual.

Your insistence on using transgendered as a perjorative in the face of FACT makes YOU the hypocrite. Not HER.

[file83]

60. Are you trying to be funny? Because you are friggin' HILARIOUS!!!

:rofl:

This is what you said:
"Your insistence on using transgendered as a perjorative in the face of FACT makes YOU the hypocrite. Not HER."

OMG - that is SO FUNNY, because here is what I said:
"Of course, no one knows for sure yet whether or not she's transgendered so it doesn't really work no matter which way you slice it."
:rofl:

Since when does "no one knows for sure" and "it doesn't really work no matter which way you slice it" become "I INSIST!!"???!!

*sigh*... Thanks for the laugh!

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[file83]

68. Personal Attacks now?

I'd rather not go down there and join you.

Otherwise, I'd have to put on my...

And it's Sunday, I just don't feel like putting on that ridiculous thing today.

[maddiejoan]

70. I didn't attack

I asked a question.

Shall I assume I am correct or not?

[file83]

75. You're acting like a child and you don't even know it.

I'm sorry, I was assuming you were an adult. Are you a child?

[maddiejoan]

81. Nope

[Irreverend IX]

77. She's not...

If she was, there would be more evidence than her Adam's apple. The college picture and the kid picture make it pretty obvious she's female, but her Adam's apple and her appearance in general indicate severe eating disorders. She'll probably drop dead from a massive heart attack inside of 10 years.

[file83]

79. The appearance of gender at any age isn't conclusive one way or the other...

...so pictures will provide you with nothing but hints. As to the prediction of Anne having a heart attack in the next 10 years... I'm sure she'll be written off WAY before that happens, but hey, one can hope right?

[ThomCat]

96. It's far more conclusive than anything you've presented.

You're taking your devil's advocate routine to an absurd and offensive extent.

[file83]

105. Tell me, if I'm not making claims one way or the other, why the hell would I need

to present anything?

If I claimed that JFK could have been shot by either a lone gunman or maybe a group of shooters, what evidence could I bring forward to proove a dichotomy? That type of demand makes no sense what so ever.

The existence of the dichotomy is inherently implied. Some people think she's a straight woman. Some people think she's transgendered. (And obviously, some people haven't reached any conclusion on the matter.)

Obviously, I'm one of the ones that hasn't reached the conclusion, and frankly I don't care.

Again, that's not the point of the discussion. I'm not here saying she is one or the other. This discussion started with the argument that the accusation that Anne Coulter is transgendered can ONLY have motivations of hatred against transgenders. I agree that that is one possibility. Of course there are bigots out there.

I also pointed out (how this whole thing started) that their could be other motivations NOT associated with hatred against transgender people.

But alas, people keep suggesting that by even discussing those non hatred motivations, I am somehow claiming that Anne Coulter is IN FACT transgendered. Something I have never done, and this derails the intended discussion, effectively sqashing it.

Not sure why that is happening, whether it's an agenda, ignorance, irrationality, or just some sort of myopic fixation on demanding the world be black and white.

Kind of ironic that some of the very posters engaging in that sort of black and white vision use the rainbow as their avatar. Go figure.

[mitchtv]

87. everyone KNOWS????

Oh Indeed? where and when was the surgery? before those HS photos? I find it disrspectful to us to insinuate that she is

[Sapphocrat]

109. "everyone knows Coulter is not a woman and had a sex change"

Links, please.

[pansypoo53219]

16. ignoring is very good.

but i refer to the coulter as 'it'. just it.

[LostinVA]

17. Many of us on DU have been saying the very thing your friend said

It is really, really hurtful to people.

THANK YOU for coming and posting this. SEriously -- major kudos to you.

[11 Bravo]

20. I'm ashamed that I had to hear it from a friend in order for it to sink in.

The expressed concerns of several of my DU brothers and sisters should have been enough.

[LostinVA]

23. You know how many people either will never get it,

will get it but don't care, or will get it and don't care, but not come and post what you did? People grow by feeling empathy for one another...

Again, good for you!
:pals:

[AnnInLa]

18. Intent

Sometimes I think that, like the repukes say, we try too hard to be "politically correct" in our speech here. This is a very informal place where we type fast, and have fast reactions. Everyone has built-in, conditioned prejudices, but at least liberals consciously fight to overcome them. But, in the past, when I mentioned Mann Coulter, or Ann-the-Man Coulter, gay/transgendered never crossed my mind at all. Other examples come to mind.

I am glad you had your epiphany, but I hate it when DUers jump on other DUers, telling them to "take it someplace else" or "that is insensitive" when the poster never meant to be insensitive at all.

It is VERY hard to know what is insulting/insensitive to EVERYONE these days. Hence the threads on "outing gays" that we have all participated in. When I mention Mann Coulter, I am referring to the fact that she is so vain about her looks(?), which is ironic, because she looks more like a man than a woman. I never even thought about gay-transgender language. I guess alot of DUers may be like me....living in a small town, kinda naive about alot of things, about alot of language.

Is anyone else having the same problem....not out in the real world exactly, but here on DU?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

38. Yeah, but when the poster continues to say it, then they're definitely being insensitive.

If they slip up and apologize, that's cool. If they continue to tell me that it's okay to make a bunch of gay jokes, because it's the hypocrisy, then they're being an insensitive asshole.

Anyway, now you know that Mann Coulter is offensive, so you can stop using that as a pejorative.

[Sapphocrat]

110. Understandable...

...that it wouldn't cross the mind of someone who isn't L, G, B, or T. Where it ceases to become understandable is when people insist on doing the same thing over and over after being told repeatedly that it's offensive.

So, now you know, and, like the OP, I think you get it -- and I hope it will cross your mind in the future, and you'll stop doing it (even if you still think it), out of respect to our transgendered brothers and sisters. That's all that matters to me.

There's a lot of wailing on DU about "political correctness," when the bottom line is simply that no one can decide whether anyone else should be offended or not. If you tell someone you're offended by the c-word, it's not up to them to tell you you're not, right?

[treestar]

19. One can use that kind of name calling in fun without really meaning

to demean anybody righteous.

If Mann were fat, people might call her a fat bitch, while still having fat friends. IOW, it is that you wouldn't call attention to it with people you liked, but with Mann Coulter, you don't like her, so you can use it without necessarily meaning to put down the transgendered.

IOW, these perjoratives are only perjorative when used against hateful people.

It's like that use of the word "fag." You can tell by the tone when it it just affectionate versus when it is directed at someone disliked.

Use of the term alone isn't bigotry, so much as the intent behind it.

Another thing, when it comes to right wingers, it is their own standards being applied to them. Like if a Republican congressman cheats on his wife. If you criticize, you get righties saying, "oh, it was OK when Clinton did it?" But that's not the point. It's the point that THEY should be a hard on repukes as they are on dems for what they condemn. The more liberal person would say let it be between he and his wife and that's consistent. It is the right winger who thinks it should have something to do with his job when it's a dem, but makes excuses when it is a rethug who is inconsistent.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. the intent being calling her manncoulter is alway a reference to her being ugly

this is why its pejorative.

[AnnInLa]

50. good points.....goes to intent

[yewberry]

21. I think you nailed it

with bile-filled pustule. I generally just stick with "filth."

I'm glad to hear that you've put some thought into the meanings and mechanisms behind slurs based on gender & identity--that's a hard thing to really get to for a lot of people.

Yay, 11 Bravo!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

22. why thank you. i have posted many threads stating that this is insulting

especially to transgendered people who are a very oppressed group to begin with.

i am glad you realized this.

here is a thread i posted in the lgbt forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=221&topic_id=27592f

[The Deacon]

36. While The Point That "Mann Coulter" Can Be Demeaning

To transgendered folks is well taken, have you considered that GLBT folks insistence that she isn't is demeaning to straight folks?
Seriously, I prefer Keith Olbermann's pejorative: Coultergeist.

[kenny blankenship]

26. Bundt cake?

Obviously the words b**** and c*** are demonstrably demeaning to women

What's the matter with bundt cake? I thought everyone liked Bundt cake.

But I'm glad you say you've changed your mind about using gender terminology to express disapproval. I've never known any transgendered person to display any of Ann Coulter's horrifying behaviors. Now if people would just see the light and stop using gay-specific terminology for the same demeaning purposes.

[951-Riverside]

28. Ms. Coulter.... nope I can't say it

I'm really sorry 11 Bravo but I can't bring myself to call "it" that.

...nice rack



OF RIBS!!!!

[Catherine Vincent]

32. I like "Alien" She should be called Alien.

I should have saved that toon that depicted her as an Alien. It cracked me up!

[LynneSin]

37. I switched to Annthrax after a similiar revelation

There are transgenders here at DU and one gave me a lashing for using transgenders as something evil. Referring to Ann Coulter as a man because of her looks is just as insultive if I called her a racial slur or some other critical name that degrades those who are of that class of people.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

41. Thanks Lynne.

:hug:

[LynneSin]

44. I think you also gave me a tongue-lashing too about it

It's funny, I criticize my nephews when they say "Oh that's gay" or "You're Gay" as an insult, but never realized I was doing the same exact thing myself

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

56. I don't remember giving you one specifically, but I probably did.

Yeah, my sisters all say, "That's gay" all the time and I'm constantly calling them on it. It's like they have some weird disconnect. They're not homophobic at all, but yet they slip up and say that. Now they tend to at least catch themselves and apologize. "That's g-sorry."

[LostinVA]

48. I love my Tastykake Princess Sister!

And, I still LOVE the sig line!!!

[ThomCat]

40. Nice post. I'm glad you've come to our side.

:applause:

[AIJ Alom]

43. Ann "Clueless" Coulter, Professional Bush Enabler, Coverup Artist,

Smear Merchant.

[Buzz Clik]

46. "Has Been". nothing more, nothing less.

[Akoto]

49. Want to know the ultimate way to defeat her?

Ignore her. Act like she doesn't exist.

While you're at it, do the same for Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, and all of the other windbags we've come to know so well over the past several years.

These people thrive on spewing hate and getting attention for it. To not acknowledge them is to rob them of their power.

[nini]

53. Do your friends make a living being as hateful and evil imagineable.

While I understand your point, when you're dealing with people who are the epitome of hypocrisy, they do not deserve an ounce of respect back. She is vile and should be treated as such.

Now if the point was comparing her to the transgendered is insulting to transgendered - I'd say I agree as they do not deserve to in the same category as her. But, it appears the point was to not use those terms against 'her'. To hell with her.


To me - it's her hypocrisy.

[GaYellowDawg]

55. "Asshole" is gender neutral.

Not to mention appropriate. She's full of shit, and her biggest job in life is to produce more shit.

[Rex]

61. Harpy, succubus, she-devil,

just use your imagination. I personally like calling her a harpy.

[sakabatou]

63. Can't we all just call her Annthrax?

[seabeyond]

65. hate and bile-filled pustule as the estimable Ms. Coulter?

like that

[pink-o]

69. There is "proof" all over the internets....

...that Ann Coulter was born "Arthur Coltrane" and his heiress mother Darlene Coltrane paid for his sex change operation in Denmark. Check it out by googling Arthur Coltrane....but remember...


It's a total pile o' shit. Ann is really Ann, born in Connecticut and raised in NYC with 2 older brothers. Face it, Girls, we gotta claim her as a natural born woman. I also share a zodiac sign with the horrid (insert expletive here) since she was born December 8th. Yuk.

By watching her speak to Lauer wearing a scrap of black cocktail dress at 7am, flipping back her hair and spewing vile, it's obvious she has sexual issues. But to accuse her of being transsexual is just counter-productive. I've known too many transsexuals and Ann isn't worthy for them to wipe their feet on. These are people who've lived in psychological agony, despising themselves as the world reviles them. And for what??? Because in the womb their gender signals got crossed somehow and they developed into the wrong sex??? We don't blame people for being left-handed anymore, but we still scorn gays and transsexuals for something encoded in their DNA???

Bravo, your friends are right: transgender people don't deserve to have their condition reviled further by using it against such a shit-spewing shrew (the noun not sexist--just alliterative!!!)

[ms liberty]

72. I do not feel demeaned when called a b****...

When someone calls me a bitch, they may INTEND it to be demeaning and derogatory, but what they actually are saying is that they can't handle the fact that I am independent and make my own decisions. They can't handle it that I am my own woman, they can't handle that I refuse to accept their belief in their superiority to me.

When I am called a bitch, I say Thank You! I consider it a compliment, because it means I have stood up for myself. Their intention is THEIR problem, not mine.

When someone uses the word c***, it is an indication of bad manners and vulgarity. Again, I do not feel demeaned - because THEY are the one with a problem, not ME.

Sure, I could get all worked up and insulted about this kind of thing, but why? There are a lot of damn idiots in the world. I don't have to give their beliefs a validity they don't deserve.

[hsher]

73. I don't feel demeaned by b****, either

When a woman is called a "b----", that's an indication she stood up for something and said NO. When I'm called one I imagine the caller as a whining, red-faced toddler upset because Momma said NO. That's what it comes down to. "She said no! Waaaaaa." Personally I think it's funny when somebody calls me a b----. The word c--t, to me, used by a man, is a flag signaling a male fear and hatred of a certain female body part. If a woman uses it, she's trying to insult the other female on the very lowest and most personal level. I've used it to describe certain women who have antagonized me, and I'd hate to see PC get to the point we have thought police on this board.

I'm a woman of color. I've been called a b----, a n----r, a c--t, you name it - just because I exist. I've got a thick skin. Words don't bother me. Actions do. People who are not women, not gay, and not people of color - sometimes I seriously wonder on what basis they're offended by others' derogatory words. If we the minorities can take it, why can't you?

NO TO THOUGHT POLICE.
SLIPPERY SLOPE.
BAAAAAAAAD DIRECTION.

[file83]

78. Can't argue with that...

:thumbsup:

[Minnesota_Lib]

94. I agree 100%

:toast:

[nini]

118. exactly.. well said

:thumbsup:

[DawgHouse]

83. This is the similar to calling a gentle man a girlie man.

Or when people refer to their boys as "throwing like a girl" or "running like a girl". All are demeaning to the female gender.

[Oeditpus Rex]

84. I had the same epiphany a few months ago

guided by some DUers.

Wish I could remember all who were involved. I think it was mainly Haruka and Buffy.

I thank them for enlightening me.

[savemefromdumbya]

85. pustule is too kind

[Minnesota_Lib]

97. Now that this problem is solved, let's get on to something equally as important...

Who do you think will get kicked off the island tonight?

[uppityperson]

99. Exactly and thank you. (regarding not using gender pejoratively)

[lies and propaganda]

106. then just call her a fucking bitch

which is completely appropriate.

[Sapphocrat]

111. A cyber-pat-on-the-back to you, 11 Bravo. :)

I don't know exactly when my revelation about "Mann"/"Mannthrax" came, but a while back it finally struck me too: Never again.

And I should have known better, a lot earlier.

Oh, and I think everyone should just refer to her as "a hate and bile-filled pustule."

[Greyhound]

120. Like any manufactured celebrity, if you ignore them they will go away.

Without an audience they cease to exist and in addition you get the satisfaction that they had to move back in with their parents and will spend the rest of their pathetic lives making hate sites on the net.

[bobbolink]

122. Thank you so much for being a reasoned counter to all the "pc" junk floating around!

Epiphanies like this make the world a better place.

Thank you. :applause:

[DemonFighterLives]

123. Is dumb Ho acceptable?

No disrespect to mentally challenged or nymphos or whatever.
:rofl:

[EdwardM]

128. I have noticed much sexism here towards Ann Coulter.

I've noticed people say she looks like a transexual, or call her a slut or whatever. I don't think it is good to call her sexist names. Insult her on the fact that she has promoted domestic terrorism. Insult her on the fact that she has a called a 9/11 widow a witch. Insult her on the fact she wants to restart the crusades. But don't make sexist comments about her just because she likes to dress nice. Shouldn't we be above that?

[robertpaulsen]

135. Refer to her politely as Ms. Shit-for-brains. n/t

[Moderator]

136. locking

Enough is enough.