Are you disgusted by puritan attitudes and judgments?

[mondo joe]

From deciding how long others should breast feed to what's a reasonable way for others to spend their free time or money, there are judgments made about PERSONAL choices that DON'T HARM ANYONE.

Does it strike anyone else as freakish that a party that often stands for personal choice and liberty can get so snipey about these things? Would DU be as judgmental about a woman getting an abortion as standing in line for a game console? Would we decide when a gay couple should marry as freely as we decide for others when they should stop breast feeding?

The Puritan streak is deep in the United States consciousness, even here on DU.

[Mythsaje]

1. Hey, I think people who are sports nuts

are freakin' crazy. I have friends who I'm almost CERTAIN stood in line for a PS3. I don't get it, but that's me. I STILL prefer table-top role-playing to video or computer games, though I've been known to play Neverwinter Nights on occasion (beat both the original game and the expansion pack) before growing bored with it.

I'm also a fan of television, books, and music, and can ramble on for hours about the merits of each.

Of course, I'd never stand in line for a PS3, but, then again, I'm the kind of person that might wait two years to buy something because the price might drop to what I consider a reasonable amount.

I could give a rat's ass about instant gratification.

[etherealtruth]

2. I am disgusted by the amount of people that want to exert control ...

... over other people's behavior, especially behaviors that have no impact on the public good.

Yes, I want to stop people from driving recklessly or drinking and driving ... I sure as hell don't care if you stand in line for days to buy a gaming system or choose to nurse your child (anywhere).

[zanne]

87. Nobody here is trying to "exert control".

We all have opinions. Do I think standing in line for days for a game is stupid? Let's just say I think it's a waste of time. See? That was an opinion. I'm not trying to pass legislation that will stop you from standing in any line you want to stand in. Here's another opinion: I think that prohibiting smoking in outdoor public areas is stupid. Again--not trying to pass legislation. I'm sure that all of you, who are talking about "Puritans" have opinions, too.

I just came up with a new opinion. The use of the word "Puritan" is stupid.

[Nicole]

3. Yes

Disgusted by the hypocritical attitudes too.

[mondo joe]

10. Sometimes I think DU should sell its own Scarlet Letters - P for "I play Playstation"

or "B" for "I breastfed a child over 12 months old".

[Horse with no Name]

23. I must have missed a thread on breastfeeding somewhere

Undoubtedly.
In other cultures, women breastfeed into the early childhood years of sometimes even 4 and 5.
The main reason is lack of food sources, but others it just is a love for the children.
On that note, I worked at a major Children's hospital and we had a lady from another country (I can't remember which country) who was highly educated. Her child was 4 and she was still breastfeeding.
The initial Emergency Room that she presented to (in an outlying hospital) notified Child Protective Services because they thought it was sexual abuse of the child.:wtf:
This is what happens when we live in a society that does not recognize customs and beliefs outside of their own borders...which is the overwhelming reason they have not been marching in the streets over what is happening in Iraq.

[The Straight Story]

40. Those would be my threads

I posted one about a flight attendant that got punished for giving a breast feeding mother a hard time, and based on some responses there I felt rather odd I made a poll (ie, someone mentioned that BF beyond 22 months was crazy) about how long people here on a progressive board think a mother should BF (and thankfully, most voted that it was nobody's damned business via the 'other' category).

[Nicole]

32. Excellent idea!

Can I get a D for dishwasher? :rofl:

[hsher]

4. I agree - SICK of puritanism on DU

I know I'll get flamed, but flames prove our point. Political correctness is out of control. Fer Chrissakes, I'm half African-American, half-Jewish, gay-sympathetic, liberal, and female. If there isn't a nasty name out there for someone like me, I haven't heard it yet. I've heard and been called IT ALL: and I am not offended by it. I am not against the Confederate flag, for instance. I feel that even racists have the right to fly it: this is America, the land of the free. The KKK has the right to march; so do neo-Nazi skinheads. Again, this is America, the land of the free. The disgusting and evil Fred Phelps has a right to wave "God hates..." signs as much as he wants, the sick bastard. This is America, the land of the free. Obversely, we who care about the gay cause have the right to wave our signs back at his stupid ass. See: America, land of the free.

More and more, especially since 2004, I have been noticing an increase in puritanism and PC thought policing on this board, and this is troublesome. While I understand we libs enjoy this certain public profile as the big tent folks, who welcome all people in all their beauty, in our anxiety "not to offend", we have gotten way out of control and now lose all irony, failing to notice that it is forbidden to offend anyone except those we think offend us. Then all bets are off, and certain people calling themselves DU-ers will say almost anything, even the unthinkable, to other DU-ers on this board.

How about this as a new idea? Bigotry against those who think differently and state differing views is still bigotry? It so happens trying to silence those who think differently from the ways we do is still trying to silence somebody. I'd leave that to the Freepers. Just my $0.02.

And now here come the hysterical, the reflexive, and the flamethrowing.

Yes?

[twilight_sailing]

8. Sometimes I read Du and just laugh

[hsher]

12. Good idea! I'll use it

I guess I've got to just starting laughing at it, too. But what bothers me is this is Democratic Underground. We are thinkers. Doers. Intellectuals. This kind of thought policing is beneath us. Where is it all coming from? Personally, the timing of it, and the often low post count of the hysterical flamers who tend to do it, makes me think...

... wait, let me put on my special hat here... :tinfoilhat: ... OK...

Makes me think maybe these people are former Republican conservatives, disillusioned with their party, showing up here, doing the proper sign-up procedures, lurking awhile, making innocuous comments here and there and making us think they're one of us... and then when somebody says something that has a backbone, UP! they spring, triggered into showing their true, thought control tendency colors. And yes, I know just saying this dangerously skirts one of Skinner's rules of DU conduct. But dammit, I don't cover my mouth and shut up for ANYONE. That's not American. People died for our right to say our piece. Even if it "offends".

"Being offended", anyway, is so subjective. Anything could "offend" anybody. Rachel Corrie's relatives could get very offended by my being Jewish and saying I am. I could get very offended when someone uses the phrase "Jew someone down". I could run around whacking people with a virtual 2 x 4 for "misusing traditionally black phrases without my black permission". (FYI, everyone, if you don't know me by now, my dad is black, my mom is Jewish.) I'm like, why bother? I DON'T CARE!

The day words rip my guts out or run me over with a Euclid or blow me up in my house or shoot at me with a sniper rifle, OK, words are dangerous then. Now you have my attention. But at this point in time, I recall yes, being hurt by being called a n----r or a Jew b---h in my childhood. I remember being discriminated against for wearing glasses. For having nappy hair. For "talking proper".

Bottom line? I got over it. Decades after its creation, to me this phrase rings still true:

STICKS AND STONES MAY BREAK MY BONES
BUT WORDS WILL NEVER HURT ME

I call for the immediate destruction of PC. Moratorium on it, right now. I'm black and don't care if you call me a N. I'm a Jew and don't care if you hate Israel or call me a f*ckin' k--e. Go right ahead. It proves the name-callers ignorance and DOES ZERO ELSE.

Death to Political Correctness!
I fart in its general direction!
Die, PC, die!

[mondo joe]

14. I think AUTHORITARIAN / NON AUTHORITARIAN runs on a different axis than

LIBERAL / CONSERVATIVE.

Or put another way, the political spectrum isn't a line but a circle, and where the two ends meet they are very much alike.

[Warren DeMontague]

103. Political Compass

Always useful for these sorts of discussions:

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

[TallahasseeGrannie]

50. Is there any chance

you are from Tallahassee and one of my former students?

I'm serious.

[Odin2005]

18. I totally agree

PC has gotten totally out of control, people need to lighten up.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

48. I once posted that I shop at WalMart

and was told I was disgusting and got a puke smiley!

I'm sure on a fundie board I would have gotten the same response if I said I hung out at strip joints.

[crim son]

70. Nope.

I agree with everything you've written. I've been reading with amazement the judgemental and puritanical posts of those who'd like to determine for the rest of us what constitutes acceptable behavior. But even more astonishing is the vitriole with which these people are attacked, mob style, by those whom they have offended. It's ugly to watch, and both sides of the argument lose credibility, IMO.

[Warpy]

5. "I live here too, asswipe. Deal with it"

is the only logical response to stuff like that.

We're a pluralist society and the Puritans DO NOT have the right to expect to go through life never being offended by anything the rest of us do.

To hell with them, better than letting them push us around and create a hell here.

[sweetheart]

6. protestant as well

That same prudeness breeds in the religion with its misogynistic stories and views of women.

Its very sad, the puritains, as if they could just get over the messy fact that they have bodies
on this earth that are wholly more animistic and inclined to pleasure of all sorts that is no
sin except to the weak minded.

But then how is it we are lead by the weakest minded and meanest hearted amongst us...;
greed, i know, but sad nevertheless.

[Skidmore]

7. I often wonder what people who think in that manner would

do in living situations without all the modern amenities available to them now. Chances are their family trees wouldn't have branched.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

52. would you please

remove my picture from your avatar???


LOL

[Skidmore]

62. We must be twins separated at birth!!

LOL!

Peace, Grannie....

[sam sarrha]

9. 'world over view' is a matter of mental evolution, that is why the Church's are against it, the view

the fundies have is acquired about age 15, it is a perceptual tribal view of the world, that is why the fundies have their own 'Enclaves'.. us against them view. they are 'Delinquent' perceptually.. but they do know that once their children acquire a 'World View' that they can never come back to the tribal view.. that is why they are so fiercely against evolution.. it is just denial, just like you find in a drug addiction.

[Red Right and BLUE]

11. YES. Very much so. nt

[JAbuchan08]

13. Absolutely.

Puritans always frame themselves against the extreme. "If we don't fight this culture war we'll end up with a bunch of 15 year old gay married kids with 15 children whom they nurse until they are 15. My personal life hasn't encountered alot of objection from the Christian right (although there was that non-missionary pre-marital sex).
The thing is the Christian right's "morality" laws aren't really going after the most licentious and lewd and unacceptable they're targeting the average american. The societal taboos that have evolved in america are not strict enough for the morality police so they are forced to legislate their own taboos. The most extreme of them want to outlaw contraception.
I think that Americans have negotiated the tricky terrain of sexual and reproductive ethics pretty well without much interference from the law and I think they will continue to do so. Abortion could be very nearly eliminated through greater access to contraception and education.
I'm hoping that the American people in general see that the Republican party is attempting to fundamentally alter what they are free to do, but they may not. It seems that the average American doesn't realize that when the Republicans are going after gays and premarital sex they are assaulting the very idea that people are FREE TO CHOOSE THEIR SEXUAL PARTNERS.

[China_cat]

15. Puritanism

the unhappy knowledge that someone, somewhere is happy.

[blondeatlast]

36. Sums it up perfectly. nt

[flyingfysh]

16. look what happened to the Puritans later

They live on in the Congregational denomination. But modern Congregationals (most of them, anyway) are one of the most liberal branches of Christianity around. Recently they made TV commercials which some stations refused to show because the ads were "too liberal".

Not only that, there was a major offshoot which is very influential here in Massachusetts: the Unitarians. Prominent early Unitarians were Ralph Waldo Emerson, Theodore Parker (grandson of John Parker who faced the British at Lexington April 19, 1775) (Theodore Parker was a major anti-slavery speaker, and personally hid escaped slaves and financed part of John Brown's rebellion), and others. The Unitarians and Quakers are always present in large numbers in anti-war demonstrations here in Boston.

One could argue that the modern-day descendants of the early Puritans have more than compensated for the mistakes of their ancestors.

[Rex]

17. Founded and held by Puritanical beliefs since 1607.

Why do you think we have the word God on every coin and dollar or the word God in our national anthem?

God bless the United States. I swear on the Holy Bible. What do you mean I can't buy a six pack at 6 in the morning?

America is a Christian nation. Onward Christian soldiers. Crusade V. Now I'm not sure how mom and apple pie AND baseball squeeze in there, but they do.

[Odin2005]

19. Left-wing authoritarians are just as dangerous as Right-wing authoritarians.

Historians has a more general term for "puritanism," Manichaeism, the belief that the world is a battle-ground between a cosmic good force and a cosmic evil force, it has been a powerful ideological force throught the Old World throught history. people with a Manichaeistic worldview have no qualms with using any means necessary to force people to act in the way the Manichaeist considers "good," and hence are very authoritarian. The Talibornagains, Islamists, Leninist Marxists, and PC nuts are the latest incarnation of this dangerous historical force.

[Rex]

20. Never thought of the PC crowd in that way.

Yikes!

[T Town Jake]

22. Excellent post.

:thumbsup:

[Odin2005]

26. Thanks.

:hi:

[hsher]

24. INDEED

:applause:

[stepnw1f]

38. The Taliban and Islamists are Leftists?

What a bunch of right wing bullshit! Nice try buddy...

[Odin2005]

43. Where did I say that?

I said they were authoritarians, I think you misunderstood my post.

[meow2u3]

67. This also includes.....

The anti-smoking fanatics, the animal rights extremists, and even some militant gay rights extremists (left-wing) are just as authoritarian as the the Talibaptists, Islamists, and the Opus Dei adherents (right-wing).

The left-wing authoritarians, usually young or emancipated, accuse people to their right of being bigots or otherwise intolerant and judgmental because they don't readily adopt their standards of tolerance; the right-wing authoritarians, typically old or old-fashioned, accuse those to their left of being "corrupt", "immoral", or worse because they don't conform to the old standards.

[Warren DeMontague]

73. I agree with the statement about authoritarians. But just out of curiosity, can you give an example

of, say, a "militant gay rights extremist"?

Animal rights extremists, like people who want to criminalize meat eating? I know some, and I agree.

Anti-smoking fanatics? Well, that's a tough call. I think people should have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies. But I also think cities and states should have the right to regulate whether people can smoke in indoor, enclosed public places. Here in California, you can't smoke inside a restaurant or a bar- you have to go outside. I don't think that is a "fanatical" law. Throwing cigarette smokers in prison, like the government does to pot smokers, I think would be the work of an "anti-smoking fanatic".

But -really, I'd like an answer- what, in your mind, does a "militant gay rights extremist" actually want? Everyone to be gay?

[ComerPerro]

75. lol. "Have gay sex or I will kick your ass"

That's a militant gay rights extremist

[Warren DeMontague]

76. I thought that was called a "cellmate" nt

[ComerPerro]

74. That is just pathetic, Really.

Anti-Smoking people are as bad as the Taliban, just because they would like to be able to breathe in a restaurant without having smoke blown in their face and meal? These "fanatics" simply want to see smokers exercise some common courtesy and some fucking restraint. You have a filthy habit, I get it. But that doesn't give you the right to be an asshole. I don't chew and spit my fingernails into your dinner or in your face.


And, you mention "militant gay-rights types". Militant how, exactly? Has a proponent of gay rights ever assaulted you? I mean, come on. You sound like a paranoid RW freak from back in the 90s, when accusing people of being "PC" fascists was common practice from conservatives.

[Marrah_G]

82. You prove the point

Because ALL smokers smoke in restraunts

Because ALL smokers walk up and breathe right in your face

Because ALL smokers are trying to kill you with their "filthy habit"

The Anti-Smoking Fanatics are NOT the ones who want smokers to show common courtesy.

They are the ones who want to BAN smoking and turn smokers into criminals.

They are the ones who get off on angrily spouting insults at a group of people that is is "politically correct" to bash.

You have a filthy view of the world, but that doesn't give you the right to be an asshole.

[ComerPerro]

98. wow, and a hypocrite too. You are just a fascinating person, aren't you?

You accuse me of overgeneralizing, and then you turn around and do it yourself. To a degree that I would say might even border on insanity.

And by the way, I am still waiting on your definiton of a militant homosexual extremist

[Marrah_G]

105. Really?

Since i've never used the term militant homosexual extremist I'm afraid I don't have an answer for you.

And yes, you absolutely over-generalized.

[ComerPerro]

106. no, but you sure as hell don't seem to have a problem with it, so you must agree

[Marrah_G]

108. I responded to one part of your post

I responded to the part about anti-smoking fanatics.

I did not respond to your question about "militant gay extremists" because I have no idea what somebody might mean by that.

Not sure why you have a problem comprehending that.

What I have an issue with is people trying to control the private lives of the people around them.

[ComerPerro]

109. you are confused. Its not the left that wants to control your private life

we just want you to be less of an asshole, and be more considerate.

And, like I said, from where I'm sitting, it looks like you agree with all the other RW tirades in this thread, including the one about militant homosexual extremists.

[seabeyond]

107. you, marrah, are right on. but..... an authoratarian will excuse

ignore or pretend behavior doesnt exist and will not listened to a word another says. kick ass post.

[T Town Jake]

21. Drinking, smoking, guns, drugs, sexual orientation, reproductive rights....

...what foods we're allowed to eat (meat, trans-fat, etc.), where to shop/not to shop, and on and on and on and on....

The puritans you mention, whether they be freepers or a small group of self-appointed nannies around here, never can answer, in a cogent manner, the following: why the fuck is it any of your business what I do with my life as long as I'm not imposing on you???

But no matter what they actually say, the real "answer" always boils down to this: because I think I can run your life better than you can.

[Odin2005]

28. Bingo!

But no matter what they actually say, the real "answer" always boils down to this: because I think I can run your life better than you can.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, they arrogantly think they know the Absolute Truth with a capital T, and thus that they have the right to forcibly "enlighten" us "unenlightened rabble." There needs to be a delicate balance between social authoritarianism and social libertarianism, to much of the former and you get Manichaeism, too much of the later and you end up with Cultural Relativism (and thus crap like Female Genital Mutilation being allowed).

[hfojvt]

80. nobody gets forcibly enligfhtened here, that's down the hall in room 101

This here is a discussion board. If I tell you my opinion, what I think is right, even if I state it very strongly, that does not force you to understand or believe what I believe.

Does this mean I think I can run somebody's life, or that I want to? Well, I would like to see people stop blowing other people up, shooting other people, and beating up, bullying or harrassing other people. To bring PC into this discussion, one way people harrass other people by calling them names. Words hurt, sometimes even when the speaker does not mean them to. If I am using words or stereotypes that hurt other people, why wouldn't I want to know that. Whether I stop doing that or not, is another issue.

OTOH, my niece felt the need to scold me that "they don't like to be called 'black people'". She had apparently been taught that in school. Maybe it is more true than false, but my life experience says it is false. Some of this may be a generational thing - each generation learns new terms and rules and thus thinks they are superior to their elders. Maybe when my niece is 43, her niece will tell her "they don't like to be called 'African Americans'".

Not everyone who tries to enlighten other people with what they know is arrogant or thinks they know the Absolute Truth, but I am pretty sure that it is still true that smoking causes cancer and Hummers get crappy gas mileage.

[hsher]

33. Yep yep

:kick:

[Minnesota_Lib]

60. You hit that nail squarely on the head

[Oeditpus Rex]

25. If by 'puritan attitudes and judgments' you mean

the attitude that "My values should be everyone's values," then, yup.

[stepnw1f]

39. Then Every Poster here is GUILTY

I'd say this thread is for whiners who find themselves in the minority on certain issues.

[Warren DeMontague]

78. Oh, Bull. Except, you're in the minority on THIS issue, that's for sure.

Every time we have a debate here on genuine personal freedom, the authoritarian control contingent gets their asses roundly kicked. I'm not talking about restrictions on smoking in indoor public places- lots of people, myself included, think they can be reasonable. There's a big difference between telling someone they can't smoke at all, and telling them there are certain places they can't light up.

But is DU generally, fundamentally, overwhelmingly Pro-choice? Check.

Do most people here think it's ridiculous to throw pot smokers in jail? Check.

Do most people here think it's none of the government's business if consenting adults want to watch movies of other consenting adults fucking? Check.

Do most people here think meat eating should remain legal? Check.

Do most people here think people should have the right to make their own damn medical decisions, including the right to a pain-free exit if they so choose? Check.

Do most people here support equal rights for gays & lesbians? Check.

Do most people here support a woman's right to breastfeed her baby, where she needs to, as long as she chooses to? Check.

Do most people here resent busybodies of any stripe telling them how to live their lives, if they're not directly interfering with anyone else's freedom or life? Check, Check, and Check.

Guess what: Someone's in the minority, but it's not the personal freedom crowd.

[porphyrian]

27. I don't mind them so much as long as they aren't making the rules for everyone. - n/t

[seabeyond]

29. yes it does. not only that it piises me off and tend to make me

want to do what i am being told NOT to do. it does not work.

[seabeyond]

30. but but but dont you have your own agenda on spanking, and

saying a parent is abusing child, because you disagree with spanking, when there are grown adults telling you their parents spanked them and it absolutely was not abuse. could it be that all think their pet peeve is not telling someone else what to do and that it is for the good as the whole, ergo justifying their demand of others?

[mondo joe]

31. But but but...

My problem with the Puritans is their insistence on judging others on things that have no direct effect on others.

I do have issues with spanking because I think there is direct harm done to someone else.

I think that's a reasonable boundary.

[countingbluecars]

41. So, are you the decider on what

has a direct effect on others?

[mondo joe]

44. No. What has a direct effect on another is somewhat up for debate, but it is

the cornerstone of our law and of freedom.

You know - the "you have the right to swing your fist up to the point of my nose"?

Are you not able to tell the difference between something having a direct effect or not?

[seabeyond]

45. breast feeding at two hurts the child, standing in line for whatever

(i sooooo dont care i dont know hte product) shows the selfish people we are ergo hurts society. everyone finds the way to justify their telling another how to live

[mondo joe]

47. Oh Seabeyond. Let's put it to the test.

If a parent was whipping a child - I mean literally whipping - would you say it was abuse?

[seabeyond]

49. i can say it is a tough one and each unique case has to be looked

at and all things considered, in context.

i cannot say that it all ='s abuse. i know better. it is not a black and white issue. but i am not arguing the spanking issue,.... i am bringing it up... for the issue you op. i think they are one and the same along with many other i have seen on the board of late. what i can do, is respect your stance, and understand your position. what i cannot do, is validate for all people

[mondo joe]

51. I think there's a huge difference between actions that directly hurt others and

actions that don't.

You may even note in my OP that puritans are distinguished by their angst over things that don't hurt anyone.

(And if someone could demonstrate that nursing at ANY age directly harmed a child, they'd be justified in saying so).

[WindRavenX]

34. I am very disturbed by it

Then again, I am a goddless scientist, so what do I know....

[951-Riverside]

35. You wouldnt believe the crap I got for staring at a woman breast feeding

...Damn purtians!

[blondeatlast]

37. Ask: "'What part of "the pursuit of happiness' can I explain for you?"

There's a damn lot of it here. I've been guilty myself, I know, but I'm beginning to learn since I've been detained by the "purity police" at DU.

[WinkyDink]

42. I don't know your definition of "Puritan", but I do know the Democratic Party isn't

the Libertarian one.
And expressing opinions, no matter what they are, including about others' habits/behaviors, falls under the rubric of "freedom of speech".
Obviously, we have no control over other posters!

(Interestingly, it seems to be okey-doke to insult...Puritans! Put down that turkey leg, Pilgrim!))

[Warren DeMontague]

56. No, but you know what? The GOP has the control freak vote locked up tight.

It was a Socially Libertarian streak in the electorate that gave us our recent victory.

You know what else? The Libertarians are right on some things- the drug war is a waste, it's ridiculous to tell consenting adults what they can or can't do with their own bodies if they're not harming anyone else, it's ridiculous and wrong to censor porn by and for consenting adults. Where they're wrong, IMHO, is in wanting to not just expand and protect the rights of individuals, who have had rights stripped away, but to also expand the rights of corporations (who have too many rights as it is) even when those corporations are endangering people, polluting the environment, etc. They also confuse individual liberty with the "liberty" to not have to pay taxes, despite the fact that there is a communal responsibility we share when it comes to funding schools, roads, infrastructure, etc etc.

[WinkyDink]

79. I prefer to think of the victory as going to the Socially Liberal.

As in: The Sermon on the Mount; the Constitution; the Geneva Conventions; the Golden Rule.

ITA about the errors of the Libertarians' ways.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

46. There is an element in our party

that makes librarians look like libertines. (although actually I've known some wild librarians)

But "we" are so obsessed with doing the "right" thing all the time, in many ways we are as narrow as our RW brethren. We have to shop at the right stores, drive the right cars, eat the right foods, feed our children the right way, parent the correct way, ad nauseum. Because if you stray from the narrow road you just aren't a progressive.

Same book, different pages. We are, after all, humans and that trumps everything.

[seabeyond]

53. i cuss in front of my children. i did it for a specific reason

a reason many would argue with, decide i am a bad parent. i did it because as my oldest authoritarian son aged, i saw he judged all of a person, for little things that have nothing to do with the essence of who the person was, but the societal rules we have been given by others. and i did it to condition him to the language so it would not be as offensive.

it is also leading a poor example for my children and opening the door to allow them to cuss

i have stopped cussing because i have made my point with the oldest and it did help with what i intended. and my youngest LOVES cussing and wants to really bad

all the kids do it. mine do not.

friday night my youngest was saying, oh heck... (and he cusses well. fluid, with grace)

i told him, that is cussing and he will be punished for it. i am absolutely a house of do as i say not as i do. i told him the heck was becoming habit

saturday night he said it again. i said, you owe me a dollar. every time, you will owe me a dollar. he accidentally said heck again. another dollar. then he said dang, .... i said same thing, another dollar

they are both to man... snap ... or any other word but not cussing

but.... many would feel that is unconventional parenting and have issue with my position. that is fine. i am an unconventional parent and parent creatively

i cannot judge another because i know i make choices another can judge me on and they wont know wtf they are talking about, any more than i will know with them.

it just doesn't make sense. except to the authoritarian.

the funny, my oldest and i have been talking about this a lot since he uses it on his brother a lot. i tell him, when someone demands i do something, i do the exact opposite. it doesn't work. so why???? he says, then i should do the opposite to get them to do what i want. (that is the authoritarian). no.... you leave them alone and allowing them to make their choices like he insists people do with him. respect

[bridgit]

54. good luck with that, the entire power structure & elite, including these...

various, ancillary, branch-like & manifolded entities on each side, dem & repub alike & then some; was & remains to this day with oft times little more than a change in nuance puritanical in it's manifest destiny, it's calling out/demonetization of ills, oddities; even people: native americans, african americans, the irish, any number of immigrants groups, etc, it continues to react to in knee-jerk fashion only imo because they are detached from their creator...it is a function of separation anxiety

[Warren DeMontague]

55. Yep. I'm in favor of breastfeeding AND video games.

I do think Hummers and monster trucks are kind of obnoxious, though.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

63. I'm in favor of breastfeeding

while playing video games. I don't care for hummers, but I have to admit that the monster trucks (in the arena, not the road) are pretty cool!

[Warren DeMontague]

64. Sunday, Sunday, SUNDAY!

"We're turning the Rosemont Horizon into a Giant MUDDD PITTTT!!!"

Sorry. Little monster truck flashback, there. I agree. My main problem with the monster trucks is the angry, apparently sexually frustrated 22 year old guys with shaved heads who invariably drive them like complete idiots around where I live.

[Warren DeMontague]

57. That reminds me- we haven't had a good knock-down brawling porn thread

in a while. :evilgrin:

[bridgit]

58. porn? what's that?

:dunce:

[Warren DeMontague]

59. $9.99, billed discreetly to your hotel room. nt

[bridgit]

61. Yippie, i can spare $9.99...

:bounce:

[pdxmom]

65. Puritan attitudes and judgments are fine with me, as long as they aren't

forced on me to embrace, and aren't coupled with the hypocrisy that we seem to see so often.

[rucky]

66. Other people's views about my choices don't necessarily disgust me.

let 'em judge. I don't give a shit what they think.

[treestar]

68. There's always somebody who is oversensitive

This country is full of perfectionists and control freaks, too.

I don't recall anyone saying there ought to be a law against waiting in line for a playstation 3. Just commenting they thought it was crazy.

It's slightly crazier to get upset that it upsets somebody else and they said so and to take it as some kind of moral judgment against standing in line for a stupid game. If someone else makes that kind of judgment, you just have to live with it, why worry about what other people think of you? If you're standing in that line, at least one person who seees you while driving by is going to think you're an idiot, and nothing can be done to prevent that.

We have to learn not to be offended so often in this culture, that's true.

[mondo joe]

69. But you do have people who are "DISGUSTED" that someone wouuld stand in

line for a Playstation, and some who are GLAD that a number of them were shot.

[Marie26]

71. Is this about the Playstation 3? nt

[NoBushSpokenHere]

72. I am proud to be LIBERAL ie tolerant of others ideas

lifestyles, thoughts, beliefs, idiosyncrasies, etc. Until this past week here at DU, I would not have said that we had gone to far with political correctness. I have been receiving emails from Republicans griping about PC going to far. I thought they were nuts and attributed it to them being such bigots!
After reading these recent threads, I tend to agree (slightly) with them.

I have been called every name in the book, none of them degraded me. Degradation sometimes is self inflicted. Especially when the intent of the words was not meant to be degrading. While it is wise to be PC, there are times when we are here among friends that we may use words like bitch slap or Democrat Party but absolutely no thoughts of being demeaning toward anyone.

Now if the writer of a post was a domineering male that said he wanted to bitch slap another poster, then I would infer the writer would be male chauvinistic and would have left himself open for a tirade from the flamers. This wasn't the case.

I was flamed for saying Democrat Party. I was raised on belonging to the Democrat Party. While it is my understanding it is no longer politically correct or even grammatically correct. I never meant any harm in referring to my party in that fashion.

I understand that Democratic sounds better than Democrat Party but jeez louise we are all among friends here.

I also understand why some people have to point out spelling and grammatical errors, they want to be able to make fun of the dumb republicans in free republic without the same stones getting cast here at DU.

Well guess what? Not everyone here at DU has had the privilege of a college education and not everyone here at DU cares whether they type perfectly. Does it change content of the message? Not at all. Do we want to give mentality or education tests to everyone here before they can post? Not at all.

Now while I am ranting about all the ranting, let me make one thing very clear -- the only word you can call me that I promise I will take issue with is calling me a freaking republican! Never have been one or will be!

[Dastard Stepchild]

77. Um, sure?

I think what you are asking is why should we stick our noses in the business of others. A question that I have often asked as well. I once had a friend tell me that she thought she was becoming Libertarian because they were so less willing to assert personal opinion as a guiding political framework. Except that the belief that a person should have the freedom to do what they want is, in fact, a personal opinion that guides that particular political framework.

So then I stopped worrying about it and accepted that I believe that there is no such thing as the truly objective, nor will there ever be a political framework that is truly value-free. No policy, no party, no doctrine, no process is exempt from the heavy hand of values, norms, mores, beliefs and opinions. Makes the process lengthy, messy and sometimes irritating beyond all belief, but it is what it is.

And I like your sig line. I use that quoate as my email sig line. That Gandhi!

[blogslut]

81. I am offended

...by the word "offended". If I hear it one more time, I'm going to be offended.

[LanternWaste]

83. Show me an individual that doesn't judge...

Show me an individual that doesn't judge other people according to and contrasted to his/her own moral code, and I'll show you a dead person.

[seabeyond]

89. this is where i excel. it can be done. and i am not dead n/t

[LanternWaste]

99. irresponsible for anyone to fail to judge

I'm using lines eight and ten from the dictionary.com website, as I believe they are the two definitions that are most relevant in the context of the OP... (I certainly don't think he meant he fails to don his judge's robes every morning... :) )


8. to form a judgment or opinion of; decide upon critically.

10. to infer, think, or hold as an opinion; conclude about or assess.

Using the above two, I'm sure you can readily see that everyone must do this. Indeed, it would be most irresponsible for anyone to fail to judge. We judge service, we judge entertainment, we judge what people say, we judge how much we can lift before we call for help in moving the large couch...

However, I'm the first to admit I'm most likely taking the OP too literal and that he actually meant something along the lines of, "acting without thought of consequence on judgments I've made..."

I think I'm too wiped out from this weekend to post coherently....

[seabeyond]

101. on both difinitions, this is where i do not go and why i say what i do

decide upon critically.

conclude about or assess.

and this is why i think it is possible to not judge. it is a complicated thought and maybe one not easily put into words, or not easy to understand thru a persons personal experience or character. to have an opinion and to conlude or assess or critically are two different things. i cannot do any of because i do not ever have full knowledge of another

i understand i do not know all. and that acceptance in and of itself allows me not to judge. that alone. a lot of people will make that statement... but then decide otherwise when it is something they are passioante about. i can well have an opinion ergo,... why i make the choices i do, knowing all there is to know about me and my reasons for the decision. but i cannot do the same for another. i know regardless there is not a chance in hell for me to know a smattering of another person. i am not in their heart. i do not see what is true for them. i cannot decide a right and wrong for another, ever..... and not my job anyway. i am busy being responsible and knowing me to make the best choices for me, ergo family.... even at that, there is an acceptance that my children make their choices in all their knowledge and i cannot make for them

doesnt mean there are not boundaries and lines, but does stand short of judging. (there is much more to this concept)

with that said, i cannot even judge the judger. the best i can do is try and understand and not attach to it

[Pithlet]

84. It seems to be magnified on internet message boards.

No matter the topic. Progressive people that I know in person never seem to be like that. Just one of those weird internet phenomena.

[earth mom]

85. I'd hardly call disapproval over some peoples stupid behavior

being "puritanical" :eyes:

Most people who think the PC 3 craze is ridiculous are pointing it out because it is completely superficial, self indulgent, and immature. First off, I could give a damn if someone wants to play video games. My kid plays video games for crying out loud. No one is criticizing what others want to do for fun, but rather exposing behavior that embraces the superficial, self indulgent consumer society we've become where common courtesy and common sense flies out the window for the sake of consuming all the more.

As for topics such as drinking and driving. NO ONE is saying, don't drink, don't party, don't have fun. What most who want to ban it are saying is that driving is a privilege and a serious responsibility and it is wrong for anyone to take someone else's life into their own hands for SELFISH reasons. How about if an airline pilot had a drink or two before a flight? Bet people would be up in arms over that! So why is driving a car any different? Answer: it's not!

Sure, being PC about some things like gay rights, is non negotiable. But don't lump criticism about silly fools who behave in selfish, self indulgent, superficial and immature ways into some sort of puritanical mindset just because you can't take the heat about it.

[seabeyond]

86. disapproval.... bah hahahaha. lol llol. k dad, mom. lol hm n/t

[earth mom]

91. Nice post...Not. But what did I really expect from you?

Now where's that ignore button? :eyes:

[seabeyond]

92. lol lol that you even recognize, but then lower expectations are

good for me. i wont disappoint and god forbid i disappoint someone on the board.

[mondo joe]

88. But you're so wrong!

You believe in respecting personal autonomy or you don't. If you can maintain that a woman aborting a fetus is her own business and not to be second guessed by strangers, but you can judge another stranger for standing in line for a game, you are a fucking hypocrite.

That's what a PURITAN does. The idea that someone, somewhere, is having harmless fun is like an itch they can't scratch. And when you describe people enjoying themselves without hurting anyone as "silly fools who behave in selfish, self indulgent, superficial and immature ways" YOU are a Puritan.

And you're 100% wrong that I "can't take the heat about it". I'm not a gamer and have never even come close to owning a Playstation or anything like it. So I'm not getting any heat. I just know an asshole attitude when I see it.

[earth mom]

90. Yeah I know an asshole attitude when I see it too.

I'm looking at it-your post that leaves zero room for debate. Buh bye. :eyes:

[seabeyond]

93. this is your example of the golden rule? you do it so well

hence, your name

[mondo joe]

94. Who but a Puritan would use "silly fools who behave in selfish, self indulgent, superficial and

immature ways" to describe strangers who aren't harming anyone.

What color scarlet letter would you like to give them? An S for SELFISH?

[seabeyond]

95. give THEM? i am thinking he/she suggesting give YOU....

bah hahahhaha. what letter and color do you enjoy the most seeing it is the golden rule and youu should be done onto as golden rule would have done onto self? oooops that doesnt work. the golden rule you dont get the choice. hence why i argue the golden rule.

my golden rule is .... do unto others as they want done. not as i want done. another rule i break for the good, wink

[mondo joe]

96. I'd have a disappointing range of Scarlet Letters. Oh sure, I use a dishwasher

so maybe a D. But I don't game, don't breastfeed, recycle, use public transportation, have a modest home and car, and don't smoke.

So mark me with a D.

[seabeyond]

97. bah hahahah.....yup, i did not know i was a bad girl, until i saw all

the good people, loll llol. i mean for real. i thought everyone my age had inhaled, but there are actually some virgin lungs. go figure. i will just where the whole alphabet and then i can be one with all.

cause even P for perfection is an imperfection

[EdwardM]

100. I agree with you, as I am a social liberatrian.

I believe that the government should not keep people from going to Satanic churches, protesting outside soldiers funerals, having sex parties, playing violent videogames, buying handguns, doing drugs or alchohol, smoking cigerettes,eating fatty foods, saying controversial things, Chewing Gum, or using birth control. If I wanted that, I'd move to Singapore. I also believe that a government should not force people to pray in school, preform community services, or serve in wars unless absolutely necessary. Instead I prefer the government focus on the healthcare and education of its population.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

102. My opinion ...

I find smug, judgemental, dismissive, insulting attitudes obnoxious where ever I find them ... and they ARE everywhere.

Many people insist that their opinions and values be tolerated and respected but refuse to offer the same respect and tolerance to others. You'll never convince anyone with an insult or a lecture, in fact, quite the opposite. Examining every word, in every sentence, for potential offense is absurd and a waste of energy.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

104. They don't bug me too much.

They're attitudes are old and obsolete. And they'll be dead soon. For pracitical purposes, they already are.