Why did some police stand by and watch/let their colleagues repeatedly tase?

[uppityperson]

Why did they watch their colleagues repeatedly assault/taser a student for not standing after being tased?

This is as big of a question as asking about the other students. Why?

[pinto]

1. It's a good question to address to the UCLA campus police and their supervisors.

Go for it. :thumbsup:

[still_one]

2. self-deleted

[uppityperson]

4. If I was 1 of the other police, would have interfered with repeated tasing.

That is what I would have done.

I thought of being a cop when younger but realized I would burn out too soon.

Edited after your editing that I am replying to. Figured I'd answer to clarify even though what you asked was not to my OP and all that.

[still_one]

6. I read the post wrong, I thought you were referring to the other students

I didn't realize you were referring to the police. If I was one of the other cops, I would have done the same thing that you said, interfere to stop it

[majorjohn]

24. I thought about it myself

could not figure it out. Maybe a cop is not supposed to tell another cop what to do (or in this case, what not to do?) No idea.

[seabeyond]

3. because they were the "good" cops?

[blondeatlast]

5. Good point. I think the students acted pretty responsibly.

The fact that the police didn't control their own is disturbing indeed--but it doesn't make for a spirited debate, I'm afraid.

[Karenina]

7. It SHOULD, considering

that a lot of da boyz returning to the U.S. who appear to be functional after MULTIPLE TOURS in Iraq will be recruited into law enforcement.

[blondeatlast]

11. Another excellent point, but we won't discuss it here at DU until

something ugly actually happens.

We should, but we won't.

[Quantess]

8. I think there is more to this story than we know about.

I am not ready to condemn the UCLA police, because honestly, that video did not tell the whole story.

[Karenina]

26. NOTHING excuses tasering an unarmed, handcuffed student

REPEATEDLY. NOTHING. There ARE NO MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES in this scenario. NONE. What "whole story" can you even imagine that would support such an egregious abuse of power?

[Quantess]

37. I agree that it looks like excessive force.

The video didn't show as much as I would have liked to see, to make a judgment, that's all. I'd like to hear what witnesses had to say.

[Karenina]

42. The eyewitnesses dispute police claims

that Mostafa was resisting. From the Daily Bruin:

Tabatabainejad was also stunned with the Taser when he was already handcuffed, said Carlos Zaragoza, a third-year English and history student who witnessed the incident.
"(He was) no possible danger to any of the police," Zaragoza said. "(He was) getting shocked and Tasered as he was handcuffed."

But Young said at the time the police likely had no way of knowing whether the individual was armed or that he was a student.

As Tabatabainejad was being dragged through the room by two officers, he repeated in a strained scream, "I'm not fighting you" and "I said I would leave."

<snip>

According to a UCPD press release, Tabatabainejad went limp and refused to exit as the officers attempted to escort him out. The release also stated Tabatabainejad "encouraged library patrons to join his resistance." At this point, the officers "deemed it necessary to use the Taser in a "drive stun' capacity."

"He wasn't cooperative; he wouldn't identify himself. He resisted the officers," Young said.
Neither the video footage nor eyewitness accounts of the events confirmed that Tabatabainejad encouraged resistance, and he repeatedly told the officers he was not fighting and would leave.

Tabatabainejad was walking with his backpack toward the door when he was approached by two UCPD officers, one of whom grabbed the student's arm. In response, Tabatabainejad yelled at the officers to "get off me." Following this demand, Tabatabainejad was stunned with a Taser.

[uppityperson]

28. I want to know why they acted as they did.Repeatedly tasing a handcuffed student.

Why did the others stand by and let them do this. I am not condemning anyone but want to know why they stood by and watched. What else is there to know about the part where the student was handcuffed, hands behind back, and they repeatedly tased him?

[Kutjara]

9. Groups of police are like any other human mob.

The relatively submissive members of the group go along with whatever the dominant members want to do. Group cohesiveness takes care of the rest. Mass brutality, gang rape, lynchings, witchburnings: the same dynamic applies. Afterwards, many of the group members can't understand why they failed to act or, worse, participated in or enabled the crime. "It's not like me to do something like that," they wail. What they mean is, "It's not like me to do that when I'm alone. When I'm in a group, however, I behave like any other conditioned hairless primate, and follow the pecking order hardwired into my brain. My individuality goes out the window."

[uppityperson]

13. that is my take on it also. Not just a mob too, but enforcement too.

They have to stick together, have been trained to stick together, to believe they are right, even if what they see another doing is wrong. I fear for our young people returning home from the Iraq occupation, how will they fit in in this society after being in a mod mentality?

[Tab]

10. I believe it has to do with creating the perception of power and being in agreement

For the same reason everyone let Bush go to war, so as to not be seen as not supporting the president.

If the police themselves are in disagreement, then their action is not valid, and students can play one off against another.

Smarter parents will do this - if it's not too egregious - mom upholds what dad said, or vice versa. If the subject perceives you're not in agreement, then they have leverage.

[Nikki Stone1]

12. Bumping for an interesting question

The Rodney King case brought up the same issue. There ended up being 11 police cars on the scene at the 118 and 210 junction where King was beaten, which means anywhere from 11-22 cops on scene. Only 4 were actually brutally beating the guy. Why didn't the others do anything?

[seabeyond]

14. no one will answer. just jabs. if there is factual valid question

to police behavior no one will answer. the only time they speak up is to say a few bad,.... but mostly good cops. i personally believe we are beyond that. i believe a pervasive attitude has swept our police force that needs to be addressed. and whenever we have solid evidence of this all the defenders of cop behavior totally ignore the question or will say something really stupid like

why do you hate our cops?

or

bet you appreciate them when you need them?

[Nikki Stone1]

27. This tasering of a student over an ID card leads me to believe you are right

Something is rotten from the top down, and it starts at the very top.

[seabeyond]

31. the very top. i believe the macho we kick enemy ass, no room

for discussion, they are animals, feeds what has been happening to our police for a while. we are all empathic to the challanges of their jobs and i think their commanders are absolutely letting the police on the street down by not havng clear rule on lines being drawn of what is acceptable or not. unless the line is so far over that this behavior is being taught that it is acceptable.

if our streets are so out of control that a police is so beaten down to think we are all to be feared, then.... this nation will be in a world of hurt, and it will be ugly. police have to get the trust back, and that will not happen tasering our students and handcuffing our 90 something year old women, and attacking law abiding citizens because they can.

this is not a little issue and we do not protect our police shielding them and ignoring the criticism. i dont know if it is too far or not. but what a law abiding 45 year old female citizen sees in the cop is something to be feared, you can bet our youth do, and that is not good. does not help our cops for us to be afraid of them. they think so. bush thinks it is a good thing for the world to be afraid of us. but it doesnt work that way because people will not allow and they will fight back

[uppityperson]

32. mob mentality combined with good old boy stuff and arrogance in some cops

Had a discussion with UPJr couple wks ago after I was called over to a police car for a "talk". Wasn't pulled over, but police followed me until I got out of car and called me over. "You pulled out too close" was what he scolded, then went on to scold me for not remembering doing this and further more how dare I say I didn't know the street names of the town, I had to know the street names, I should know the street names...

Yes sir, no sir, sorry sir, try to be a good role model sir, will be more careful sir, sorry sir, no sir, sorry sir, yes sir.... All the while getting more and more angry because I could either continue to yes sir no sir sorry sir kiss ass or turn around and walk away and our police have shown they are free and easy with tasers (you don't need to threaten a 85 yr old man with tasing when he won't take a copy of a ticket. You can mail it to him. You don't need to tase a woman when she runs after getting pulled over for running a stop sign. Etc)

Anyway, I told UPjr about this and my fear that I would get tased if I didn't continue to "comply" until the police officer was done scolding me (over 5 minutes) and UPjr said I should try being a young person in our small town as they all are afraid of and hate the police for this fear.

I raised UPjr to believe "the police are our friends, if you are ever hurt or in danger go to them". Now? I still think the same but it pisses me off that this sort of bs happens and hurts us all.

[seabeyond]

39. i am not a yes sir no sir type of gal. and i dont intimidate

if i ever get in trouble with the cops it will not be because i broke the law, it will be because i dont cower. and regardless of what the police may THINK, it is not a law that i have to cower to them.

my children are young, and they have never had any reason to see the ugliness of the police... yet, there interactions with police for different reasons have never been comforting or assuring. there is always apprehension and anxiety and fear in dealing with police. they have certainly gotten the message and that is sad. i just know that if my boys perceive them in such a manner, with the lifestyle we live, what must all the other kids that aren't so lucky experiencing.

i am sincere when i say i had always been one to support the police. and i want to be able to do it now. i dont

[uppityperson]

43. I don't intimidate often but I was and it made me very angry 'cause he was trying

he was trying to get me upset and to do something since he had nothing he could ticket me for. He kept on and on and wanted me to turn and walk away so he could get me for "obstructing justice" and/or zap me.

Watched an interesting thing happen in Paris at Nortre Dame. 4 gendarme were working with 2 people in an altercation. They kept seperating the 2 men, then bringing them back together to talk, then seperating them, together, apart, all the while talking and listening. I made a comment to a young man watching also and he said that it is not like USA John Wayne where you shoot first but each side had a story and the best way was to help them work out a solution. Not saying this happens all the time there, but it was an interesting experience. Oh yes, these gendarme had little billy clubs but no guns or tasers.

[seabeyond]

44. i hear ya hear ya..... yes he was there to intimidate. and it is always

to intimidate anymore. and that alone pisses me off. it is wrong. it is not justifiable. it is not ok.

this is how i feel, what you are talking is their goal and intent in france. when i was younger i thought it was suppose to be ours too. it isnt here anymore. going thru the airport, we dont even know if i can make it through anymore. because i cannot stand by and reinforce this behavior so it can be done to others. the other day i did fine until i got half way thru the line that they managed to remodel and slow everything down a 100%. half way thru that line of herding sheep i told niece, i cant contain anymore. i cannot. i have used up my supply of patient for those to control. (i had smiled thru at least 5 things i could have snapped back at)

by the time i got to picking up my wallet and the woman said something rude and snotty, i said.... yawl expect us to take whatever crap you want to hand out and that is wrong. no one else can get away with the attitudes yawl have. lol lol. later cops are walking towards us and i tell niece, they are comin to take me away..... lol.

i am sorry. i dont know why people pretend it isnt happening. not going ot be pretty. for anyone. especially our youth. ah well, we have fucked up much of their world, no biggie with this either. i tell my kids us adults are going to leave you such a mess, you better get smart so you can fix it all.

[hootinholler]

15. Because they were UCLA renta-cops. n/t

[seabeyond]

16. from what i understand this is not true. can you clear this up for me?

i understood that they are trained as police officers. i let it go thinking rent a cop, but then why do they have power and authority to use tasers? and if so, does it really matter

[hootinholler]

49. I could be wrong.

I thought the LAPD was tasing him and the Campus Keystones were watching. It was an assumption on my part after seeing the vid. If they were all on the same force the other cops should have had a duty to act to protect the student.

-Hoot

[uppityperson]

18. Even if they were rentacops, why did they just stand by and allow it?

[Union Thug]

17. Because people who want to be cops are exactly the same people...

that should NEVER be cops. They behave like pack animals when they sense blood, weakness or vulnerability.

Having two cops in my immediate family, and another that is striving to become one, the one thing I noticed that they have in common is their arrogance and their know-it-all attitude.

[uppityperson]

20. I wanted to be a cop. Think it goes to training and the work>pack mentality

They have to know it all because they deal with life and death and instant decision decisions. They are trained and learn that they therefor DO know it all and hence, the arrogance. There are many who are not know it alls or arrogant, but they still stand by and let others do bad things too many times. The Pack is All.

[Supply Side Jesus]

33. Nothing like a mass generalization eh?

gotta love that.

[Union Thug]

34. Perhaps, but every experience I've ever had with police has

been negative. Every cop I've ever known has been a narcissistic asshole. Maybe some magical Officer Friendly will come along some day to change my views, but until then, this is where I stand.

[Alexander]

47. With that kind of attitude, it's no wonder you face such hostility.

Is there some magical precinct where you live, where a cop's job description involves being friendly?

I've had bad experiences with asshole cops too, but the one or two times a good cop has saved my ass has definitely been worth it.

I locked my keys in my car once, while mailing a letter on the way to work. I called the non-emergency police line and asked if they could somehow open my door. Since the police station was a block away, it wasn't 5 minutes before an officer was helping me out. After signing a statement saying I owned the car, him using the hook to unlock it, and me showing him my license and registration, I was thankful and we both went our respective ways.

The police didn't have to do this. If he thought I had the same contempt for the badge that you do, he would've probably walked off and said "Good luck with that". And I wouldn't have blamed him.

There are plenty of bad cops out there, but let's not get so caught up with the bad ones that we forget there are good cops just trying to do their jobs.

[uppityperson]

48. most I have had have been good, a couple bad ones

Have had helpful police help with various things, had 1 powerhungry manipulative jerk try to get me to react so could ticket/tase/arrest me. Most have been good as individuals, wonder about when they get into a group situation like this one.

[Alexander]

45. You're dead wrong, but thanks for playing.

My cousin's a cop in Michigan. Not only that, he received FBI training at Quantico and was police chief for a suburb of Detroit.

He is a good cop. No arrogance, no attitude, no desire to kick anyone else's ass. Just a desire to enforce the law.

Nice to see you paint all officers with the same brush just because a few of them are bad apples. I thought this crap was restricted to the Freepers.

[Supply Side Jesus]

52. Stereotyping knows no ideology.

[RagingInMiami]

19. It's called the "Blue Code of Silence"

[RagingInMiami]

21. Cops know they are disliked by many people

They know they have a higher chance of getting killed during a work shift than most people. They know that the only time anyone wants them around is when they've been a victim of a crime.

Any other time, most people -- even those of us who do not commit crime -- would rather not have a cop tailing us in our car.

So they naturally develop a very strong bond, not much different than soldiers at war.

That being said, the UCLA cops were way out of line and need to be prosecuted.

[tkmorris]

22. It's the same with any authority figures

Take parents for example. Smart parents will never question each others actions in dealing with the children, in front of the children. To do so undermines the others authority. Teachers have a similar ethos, and so do policemen. They will criticize each other, but not publicly. It's just not done

Now it is obvious that at some point all of that goes out the window. A point at which the authority figure gets so out of control, or does something so heinous, that immediate intervention becomes necessary. This is not something to be done lightly, as it usually creates a permanent rift in the relationship, be it personal or professional. In the case of a policeman I would imagine that such a public interference from a fellow officer would likely result in someone's career ending.

Now, does the UCLA tasering rise to this level? Perhaps it does. It's a close thing. Given that the authority figures involved were only marginally policemen as I understand it, the professional courtesy expected from fellow officers may be less influential. I personally despise tasers, and definitely oppose their usage in this fashion, i.e. to enforce compliance with a non-emergency order. A college kid refusing to stand up should never warrant force, to me. The police there however likely have a different opinion on that. It is quite possible that such usage is allowed for in their policies regarding taser usage. If so, it is hard to imagine a fellow officer interfering, even given the circumstances. I would bet though that there are more than a couple considering a different career pending the outcome of this and it's effect on UCLA police policy. I know I would be.

[countingbluecars]

23. Maybe they all thought

they had caught themselves a terrorist. He had the right skin color. The smartest thing that young man did was cause a scene inside the busy library and refuse to be dragged out to who knows where.

[personman]

25. Because vigorous masturbation would attract too much attention?

Because the only guy with a taser was already using it and clubs are too messy?

Beats me.

[uppityperson]

29. Their only options were masturbate or join in?

o.k. I think more training is needed, for law enforcement groups (police and military) to be able to deal with going against peer pressure. I get it though, sarcasm. Or would that be irony or sardonic writing? Been called wrong on each. Funny.

[personman]

36. Just making the point

they were at least as likely to masturbate at the display of authority as they were to intercede on the victims behalf.

-personman

Edit: I think we've all seen the video of all the cops laughing when the female protester was shot in the face with a rubber bullet. Proves my point.

[Bonobo]

30. That caused me to spit on my monitor...

[BlooInBloo]

50. (rimshot) lol!

[951-Riverside]

35. Two words (or Three).

Money & Job Security

[sendero]

38. They might think different..

... about the money part if they find themselves defending against a civil suit. They could lose every dime they will ever make, wouldn't bother me much.

[951-Riverside]

40. Wouldnt matter to me either if these abusive cops face justice

...I'm watching the trial of FMR. Deputy Ivory John Webb very closely because I'm interested and what he's going to get for telling a man to get up then shooting him as he did.


Victim: "I'm on your side."
Deputy: "Get up!"
Victim: "I'm going to get up, all right?"
*bang* *bang* *bang* *bang*
Deputy: "Shut the fuck up, you don't get up …!"
Victim: *Moaning in pain*
Victim: "You told me to get up."
Deputy (on radio): "Shots fired! shots fired!"

[EFerrari]

41. Racism is a factor in Southern CA cop culture. As these "cops"

are less well trained or supervised than city cops, it's most likely more of a problem on campus.

So, that student was dehumanized twice: 1) he wasn't another cop and 2) he wasn't white.

Not the whole answer but imho part of an answer.

[Swamp Rat]

46. Maybe because they were trained at Westwood College Online.

:eyes:

http://www.westwoodonline.edu/degree/criminal-justice-online/degree.asp

Or maybe they are sadists for hire.

[ComerPerro]

51. because everyone knows liberal protesters aren't really people