Words are Words are Words. Political Correctness has gone too far.

[KyndCulture]

I have spent this weekend defending one word I said in a little post. Bitch-slap. Ok I got many PMs from people who took offense to the word bitch. I got mod warnings. It's just a word. I'm a woman. I meant no offense, but this whole thing really has me in a snit. I never ever called someone a bitch... I merely said "bitch-slap" a slang term.

I have chewed on this, thru long walks, cleaning the house and generally being pissed. Seems to me it's just another case of eating our own. I am a faithful democrat, I am a tireless activist, I am a TOTAL AND COMPLETE bitch when I see someone wronged.

There are some words, slang words, that ARE really offensive.... but then again, there are some words that only someone looking to be offended WILL be offended. And really, that's sad.

This PC thing, within our own party, it getting way out of control.

Maybe it's time to examine our own house... sometimes a word is just a word and it's not meant to offend anyone. OH and by the way, getting offended doesn't help our cause, it just makes you weak.


I'm sorry to those I offended, but I stand by what I said and why I said it. I am a bitch, I am a democrat, I am a liberal and I am proud of it.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Yes, it's just a word. A derogotory word about women. What's the male version?

Sexism, especially perjorative terms, have meaning.

ps. It's not a compliment to tell a woman she's got "balls." It might be intended as a compliment, but, ultimately, you're saying that being physically female isn't adequate. It's like saying "that's awfully white of you" to a black person. It, too, was said as a compliment, but ultimately its derrogotory.

[shanti]

13. male version

pimp slap.

[Atman]

17. Dick. Tool. Peckerhead. Etc.

I agree with the OP...for a supposedly "democratic" party, we sure do get our panties in a wad over the stupidest things.

Oh, can I say "panties," or is that offensive to women, too? Perhaps "knickers in a twist." Oops, offensive to Brits.

I've heard many female posters on this board use the same "there is nothing comparable for men" line, to which I say "bullshit." One such poster argued with me for several posts one night when I tried to claim that "dick" and "peckerhead" were equally sex-based pejoratives as calling someone a "pussy." She felt it was an insult to women, but that "dick" wasn't in any way the same thing. She said she felt words like "dick" and "peckerhead" didn't refer to men's organs, they were just words. She saw no comparison. An outrageously hypocritical and downright sexist attitude, imho.

It seems many here want to dumb down the language to third-grade level so that we'll soon have no acceptable words to describe any given situation unless they are words you could say to a kindergarten class...with your mom and some nuns sitting in.

:eyes:

.

[Captain Hilts]

27. And these terms for men are rarely heard on television. 'Bitch' is everywhere.

Because it's acceptable. And it shouldn't be. Not if 'nigger' isn't, or 'dickhead' isn't acceptable for use on television.

Just when we are narrowing the list of acceptable terms for ethnic minorities and nationalities, the use of the term 'bitch' is becoming wider and more common. What's with that?

[Atman]

43. I think it your perception, or you're overly sensitive.

I don't see the situation as you do at all. "Dick" is certainly used on television, but even then...who the hell says television should be the arbiter of anything? It that is your standard, I guess killing and rape are acceptable, too; they're both common subjects virtually every night on television.

Context is also a word, and a very important one.

.

[silverojo]

297. What's with that? I'll tell you.

In a word, it's the misogynistic hip-hop culture. They started overusing the word bitch, and things went downhill from there. :mad:

[OwnedByFerrets]

37. Great reply to a great original post.

[Captain Hilts]

42. What about the 'Democrat' party. Is that okay? No, it isn't. It's intended to insult.nt

[Atman]

46. "It is INTENDED to insult."

Bingo.

.

[novalib]

53. So, I Can Use "K***" As Long As I don't INTEND...

So, I can call (or refer to) a Jewish person as a k*** or a h*** as long as I don't INTEND to insult them??

And I can call a hispanic person a s*** as long as I don't INTEND to insult them?

Are you serious??

Why would anyone use those words unless they intended to insult, demean, and disrespect the people???!!!

[Atman]

58. Hell, you can't even seem to TYPE them, let alone say them.

Why do you insist we all share your same hangups?

Archie Bunker used "kike" and "hebe" and "spic" on television all the time...and that was THIRTY YEARS AGO. Exactly how far backwards do you really want to take us?

.

[uppityperson]

65. he used them as insults, how about nigger?

that used to be used on tv too.

[Atman]

66. No, he didn't

Not at all. That was the whole point. You need to bone up on your Norman Lear history.

.

[uppityperson]

72. ah, wrong words from me.

Generally ignorant rantings of an ignorant person, not insulting someone, true. I had a hard time watching All in the Family at first because of it, then figured out the biting wit, not satire but making fun of those sorts of people while showing they were people too. Sorry, don't know Norman Lear history.

Edited to add just did a quick Norman Lear search and I am impressed by all he has done. Regarding AITF, they broke a lot of ground on a lot of issues.

[Atman]

80. BTW...

"Hebe" is just short for Hebrew. Why is that more offensive than "Jew" being short for "Jewish?"

I've never and would never call anyone a hebe, but there is a valid point there. Likewise (and this is coming from a person of Irish decent) "Mic" is just short for the prefix of many Irish surnames. Why are they taken as insults?

.

[uppityperson]

87. I think it is like saying "boogerbutt"

It is the tone that is the insult, and add the fact that what the word is is 1 characteristic of a person (whether true or not). Tone + 1 characteristic description = biggoted insult

[badgerpup]

98. Waaaay off topic...but:

Hebe (Hee-bee) was one of the Greek pantheon...
trotted around pouring ambrosia (mead) into everyone's celestial goblet.

[novalib]

77. I Prefer PROGRESS!!!!

I CAN'T BELIEVE MY EYES!!!!!!!

Do you really want to RETURN TO A TIME (30 or more years ago) when words like "s***' and "k***" and "h***" and "n*****" were used on TV????

Do you really not see that it is PROGRESS that NOW WE DO NOT USE THOSE WORDS?!?!?!?!

30 or more years ago, it was perfectly ok to have shows like "Amos n Andy" on TV.

30 or more years ago, it was ok to see characters like Stepnfetchit in movies.

Do you really think that we should, in the interest of allowing free expression of every racist and misogynistic thought and inkling, return to a time when it is OK to use words like "k***" and "h***" and "s***"?!?!?!

YOU seem the person who wants to take us backwards!!!

[Atman]

81. Well, at least you completely missed the point!

Completely and utterly. 100%.

Go watch some AITF reruns. The show was thirty years ahead of its time!

.

[Sydnie]

265. I agree.

Just as Maude was, just as Good Times was. All addressed social situations of everyday life and taught more lessons through humor than any other shows on the air at the time ... or even later. BTW, I include Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman in that list of learning experiences as well.

[JacksonWest]

210. Thirty years ago George Carlin gave us a list

of words you couldn't say. it's a great bit. Remember, words are harmless. Context is everything.

[elehhhhna]

158. LMAO. Oops! Can we say "A' on DU?

[guruoo]

127. That's different....

I can't explain why, it just is.

[zreosumgame]

282. well, no not on this board it seems

a couple of weeks ago I posted the true historical origin for calling male homosexuals f***** and why in some place cigarrettes are called the samew thing (hint, they are both burned to ashes) and the post was deleted because some of weaker folks here had a hissy-fit.

:silly:

[Captain Hilts]

239. Calling someone a 'bitch' is a compliment? Someone here called Nancy Grace a 'bitch'...

I don't think it was meant as a compliment.

Just a hunch.

[uppityperson]

49. rather than dumbing down the language I want it expanded

bitch-slap bitch cunt dick asshole pussy fuckoff bastard macaca
All these are too simple, too fast, too generalized. Expand the language, become more descriptive, not less. Don't stoop to easy insults but truly and fully describe!

[SaveOurDemocracy]

190. As a woman ...

This is the funniest thing I've read all day!!! :rofl: hahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!! Truly bizarre.


"She said she felt words like "dick" and "peckerhead" didn't refer to men's organs, they were just words. She saw no comparison." :rofl: :rofl:


B O G U S ! ! !

[SoCalDem]

253. We could always be like the freeps and use "D**n" and F**k"

I too have been very surpised at the "outrage" at all kinds of words.

People who frequent internet forums need to grow up a bit, and quit taking things so hyper-personally..

Saying "Bitch-slap" is NOT "calling" every woman who reads those words, a bitch..

There are always words that mean something to individuals, but no one can know how all those words can affect people they don't even know..

Most people self-censor, but there's a point somewhere that makes it ridiculous.

Example...

I do NOT use the "f" word , but I do not correct or chastize those who do.

Common language has become coarse, and these's nothing anyone can do about it.

We all just need to realize that people who write stuff onliine are not personally attacking US, when they say something that "offends" us. (How could every poster here KNOW what hot words we all have?)

[buddysmellgood]

48. Bitch works very well for men as well. If you need something more neutral, try asshole.

[Jed Dilligan]

51. I use it for men more than women,

men are very often the ones "bitching."

[Atman]

54. LOL!

Sorry...I found that reply absolutely hysterical coming from a poster named "buddysmellgood!"

:rofl:

"Opinions are like assholes; everyone has one and only the other persons' ever seems to stink."

[elehhhhna]

159. I like Pimp-slap. Is that acceptable?

[JVS]

170. No. You do violence to the meaning of the words.

A "pimp-slap" involves hitting with the side of the hand that the fingernails are located on. The "bitch-slap" is the opposite and the palm side of the hand is used.

[elehhhhna]

176. I never knew that! Wow.

Not sure I understand the part about doing violence to the meaning of the word "pimp"...unless I'm way off and you're telling me to avoid using violent words altogether, which is very good advice.

[JVS]

179. The part about "doing violence to the meaning", just means...

using the word inappropriately, sorry I was speaking stylistically. But the stuff about the different sides of the hands is what differentiates the type of slapping. An easy way to remember is that the pimp often has his hands resting on the top of his cane which is positioned in front of him. In order to slap in one smooth motion it is impossible to wind up for the use of the palm side, thus he slaps using the side opposite the palm.

[semillama]

168. I'm curious. Just how gender-neutral is that term?

"Asshole" seems to me to be more of a term applied to males, with limited use for females, similar as to how "bitch" is used more for females than it is for men. Both terms to me have the same connotations - used to describe someone who can be aggressive mean, and offensive. Yet, no one seems to get super pissed off about the term "asshole" when describing a man. "Dick Cheney is an asshole" probably gets no negative reactions about being inappropriate. The statement "Mary Matalin is a bitch" however, would probably get some scolding, according to the OP, although I feel that both Cheney and Matalin are aggressive, mean and offensive.

Is this a double standard? If we insist that we cannot use the term "bitch" because it is derogatory, does it not follow that we cannot use "asshole" or indeed, ANY derogatory terms? In effect, do we cut out an entire form of discourse that uses coarse language to communicate points? Is that something we should be doing?

[LoZoccolo]

95. Asshole, prick, dick, probably more but that's 3 to 2 already. n/t

[Vorta]

109. Actually it refers to a canine. The male version is bastard.

It doesn't have to make sense- it's vernacular. In fact, it's used so many different ways it doesn't have much meaning at all. When preceded by "son of a" it's really just a meaningless expletive.

[loyalsister]

148. Gutsy women have Ovaries

[Atman]

164. I thought they had clitzpah.

:shrug:

.

[loyalsister]

172. I'll have to remember that one

:thumbsup:

[Captain Hilts]

182. THAT's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!! nt

[Blackthorn]

280. A Bitch slap is not gender specific.

*rolls eyes*

[cigsandcoffee]

284. Bastard. It's widely used. n/t

[MrSlayer]

2. I agree with you.

I'm offended by the constantly offended.

[Captain Hilts]

3. Among friends it's fine. But not in a public forum. nt

[KoKo]

20. Agree....it comes off badly in a public forum. Lot's of things we say in

private amongst people we know come off badly when one talks in public. Unless one just likes being known as a public trash mouth. :shrug:

[uppityperson]

4. calling yourself a negative term is ok, calling someone else is not

there are lots of other words to use that do not insult someone by calling them a sex, color, creed, sexual orientation, heritage, etc. Getting offended at someone using a sexist term as an insult makes me weak?

Is this an apology but it is all your fault sort of thing?

[HCE SuiGeneris]

7. Read the text

she said "bitch-slap". My f'kng gawd, it is a verb, not a noun. You are being picayune my dear. Bless your heart.

Edited: Ok, I really do apologize for the "bless your heart". That is offensive. Guess my position on the PC matter is evident.

[Captain Hilts]

14. Yes, I, too use that expression a lot. But not here. nt

[uppityperson]

18. I read the text, know the context, still is sexist.

using "bitch" is sexist, why not just say "slap"? Why "bitch slap"? What does adding the "bitch" part to "slap" get you except to add that this is what females do?

And, by the way, the bitch part here is an adverb, not a verb. Slap is the verb. Bitch is the modifier.

[guruoo]

130. Stop, stop, pulleeze!

[guruoo]

129. And the crowd...

[Radio_Lady]

296. Oh, I love that audience! I wonder if any of them are still alive?

[Captain Hilts]

11. Right, I LOVE using vulgar or sexist terms, among friends. Not in public. nt

[Skinner]

5. If you don't like Dems eating our own, I suspect this thread isn't going to help much.

BTW: You sure you got a mod warning? I don't see any warning on your record, and I don't see any discussion of it in the mod forum. If you were in fact contacted by a mod, please send me a private message to let me know the details. They aren't supposed to be acting alone on stuff like this.

[hsher]

85. Agreed

I learned that earlier today, and I will never post something like this again.

[jgraz]

107. But Dems are so YUMMY!

[stepnw1f]

200. Thank You... These Posts are Really Annoying

and for the most part exagerated.

[jgraz]

6. Word, KyndCulture

This shit is just out of control. I swear that some posters must spend their evenings just searching for their pet keywords and jumping on anyone who uses them.

It's this kind of shit that sets real feminism back. Seriously, people, if you're that obsessed with gender issues, quit policing people's keyboards and go volunteer at a women's shelter.

[Captain Hilts]

9. It's not 'shit'. It's an easy way to remove sexism from an aspect of public life.

Most people don't even think of it.

Is 'welshing on a bet' not perjorative about the Welsh?

Do you say you 'jew someone down on a price?' I'll bet you don't. It's not acceptable to say it, yet, using sexist terms is still acceptable.

How do you know whether or not I volunteer? I can do several things at once!

[jgraz]

39. If you think it's easy, go for it

Lemme know when you've finished cleansing the common vernacular.

BTW, I'm assuming you contacted Mookie's family to make sure you wouldn't offend them by appropriating his name for your alias.

[jannyk]

105. That would be welched not welshed and no,

it was the Welsh that were welched on. It wasn't the Welsh that did the dirty it was Eddy the First. I'mglad you can do several things at once, getting your facts straight might be one to add to your current repertoir.

[Atman]

122. Actually, no. It is "Welsh" not, welch. And the Welsh find it offensive.

"From "Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins":

"welsh -- to anyone with Welsh blood in his or her veins, the old nursery rhyme 'Taffy was a Welshman, Taffy was a thief' is an outrage and a slander. There is no objection to the first statement: 'Taffy' is a generic name for Welshman, a corruption of 'David,' the patron saint of Wales. But we greatly resent the implied slander on an entire nation in the second line...Even worse is the verb 'to welsh,' meaning 'to renege on a bet,'...The term welsher became common in Britain during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries in the argot of race-track bettors. But from a reader came a comforting word for all Welshmen, one which gives a touch of logic to the use of the term: 'It was ENGLISH bookies who, having too many long shot winners against them, fled over the border to 'boondock' Wales to become the original welshers and escape irate bettors looking for their payoff.' Signed 'Taffy' Hoxie. 'P.S. You guessed it. I, too, had Welsh ancestors.'"

[Matariki]

128. but this defies logic

If both these statements are true - that Taffy was a Welshman AND Taffy was a thief - does that mean that ALL Welshmen are theives? No, of course not.

[elehhhhna]

161. Next up: "Dutch Treat"

lol

[Captain Hilts]

205. Well, it plays on stereotypes of the Dutch being cheap. nt

[elehhhhna]

256. Knew that, Mookie. I'm dutch. AKA a "shoe", lol

[ms liberty]

104. Good point here...

"It's this kind of shit that sets real feminism back."

Where would we be if Betty Friedan and Gloria Steinham had gotten bent out of shape over trivialities like this? We'd be nowhere, and no one would know their names. This really is just too much overreacting. All melo, no drama.


edited: spelling again!

[Captain Hilts]

208. They prioritized their language fights: 'Ms' , 'chairperson', etc. It did matter to them. nt

[Maiden England]

8. Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me

A sentence I learned when I was 3. Still holds true. This society places far too much emphasis upon a few insignificant 4 (and more) letter words. When I lived in the UK, most words can be said on broadcast TV. Not before the 'watershed' (9pm), but they can still be said. True, perhaps swear words are much more part of the vernacular than in the US, but by their overuse, they have become watered down, non threatening nouns and verbs. They have become what they always have been, just words.

In fact the absurdity of it all, I think is reflecting in the use of 'acceptable' substitutes for such words. You can't say 'shit' but shoot is perfectly acceptable. Even though it sounds almost the same. Fricking for the ever popular 'F' bomb. Darn, for Damn. If the notion of the word is so abhorrent, then surely the alliteration alludes to the wish to express such words, and is as such hypocritical. The best example of this absurdity is found on the show Battlestar Galactica. In order to be able to express such a gritty realistic view, but to avoid censure, they have substituted the F bomb, for the word 'frak'. It means exactly the same as the F bomb and is used in its place. In the world of the Colonists, their 'F' bomb simply is the word frak, and yet, it does not have to be bleeped out. Perhaps Shakespeare didn't quite have this in mind when he said the following, however, the age old bard, does make a valid point...

"That which we call a rose. By any other name would smell as sweet".

[Captain Hilts]

10. Awfully white of you sloppy liberal! nt

[Maiden England]

15. Is that an observation or some sort of pointed remark?

Although I believe the PC term for that is "awfully caucasian of you". In honor of the awfully PC world we seem to be living in, of course.

[jannyk]

106. Me too! One of the first things my mum ever instilled in me

Anytime I came to her whining and whinging that so and so had called me 'names' - reciting that to me was the only comfort I got - she did it right too - there's nothing you can call me that will give me a moment's pause - 'cause I'm a tough old bitch.

Insults are only insults if you let them be otherwise they are just hot air.

[lukasahero]

153. "Sticks and stones" and domestic abuse

You might want to do some research on the damage "words" can do. Verbal abuse is often more difficult to recover from and does more lasting damage to the victim.

Old axioms aren't necessarily true just because they're old.

[novalib]

12. It's ONE OF THE WORST WORDS!!!

B**** is ONE of the WORST WORDS I CAN THINK OF!!!!

It so DEMEANS and DISRESPECTS women!!!

It ranks right up there with another word that is TERRIBLE.

That word begins with an "N".

WORDS ARE WORDS.

And some words SHOULD NOT BE USED!!!!!

[MercutioATC]

22. I thought the "C" word was one of the worst words....

...I'm sooooo confused now...


:crazy:

[novalib]

25. Look, I Did NOT Want To List ALL of Them!!!!

OF COURSE, the "c" word (when referring to a woman) is ALSO one of the WORST words.

I did NOT want to list ALL of the WORST words.

Nor did I particularly want to allude to ALL of them.

My point is that THERE ARE SOME WORDS THAT ARE SO DEMEANING AND DISRESPECTFUL THAT THEY SHOULD >>NEVER<< BE USED!!!

[Goblinmonger]

212. You got a lot of worst words, there

You might want to reevaluate your use of superlatives.

[Horse with no Name]

59. Call me a bitch all day long

It doesn't bother me.
Call me the "c" word I am going to claw your eyes out.
I think that people have varying degrees of response to words based on their own experience with the words and that is hard to assess unless you know them up close and personally.

[MercutioATC]

67. Imagine that. Offensiveness is subjective. Revolutionary idea!

...which is why it's silly to label "bitch" or any other word as "ONE OF THE WORST WORDS".


well, at least YOU get it...

:toast:

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Horse with no Name]

89. See what you did? You proved my point.

I told you specifically that I didn't like being called a cunt.
Yet you did it AFTER you knew my displeasure about it.
You did it with malice and as a slur.
Had I not told you that--they would have just been words attributed to ignorance.
Big difference.

[LostinVA]

94. Excellent post and point n/t

[novalib]

180. BUT I TOLD YOU .....

BUT I TOLD YOU THAT >>I<< DID >>>NOT<<< INTEND TO INSULT YOU!!!

I even said that "I PROMISE" that I did not INTEND to insult you.

There seem to be some on this thread who say that ANY WORD can be used as long as the person USING IT does NOT INTEND any insult.

Our little dialogue PROVES MY POINT.

And my point is that the INTENTION of the person using the word does NOT MATTER!!!!

What matters is how the word is perceived by the PERSON HEARING IT -- and AT WHOM the word is DIRECTED.

Since NO ONE really ever knows how a word will be received by another, and since there are some words that are SO OFFENSIVE (words like k***, h***, c***, s***, b****, and n*****, they are words that SHOULD NEVER BE USED!!!!

Except, of course, to illustate a point.

THANKS for proving my point!!!!

[sandnsea]

112. You mean cupcake? n/t

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

233. Bingo

I have many female fiends who take pride in being called a "bitch".

But Go rest the soul of anyone dropping a "c"-bomb on them.

[Mad_Dem_X]

154. Give me "B" over "C" any day

I think c*** is one THE worst words ever. I don't consider "b*tch" an insult. But don't let me hear anyone (esp. a man) say the "c word"!

[novalib]

183. It's Just Another Word

Oh, come on, now!!!!

It's just another WORD.

It just means vagina.

And it's OK to use it as long as, when you use it, you don't INTEND to insult anyone!!

:sarcasm:

[MoonRiver]

24. IT MEANS A FEMALE DOG.

Yes, it has a pejorative meaning also. But so does the word "dick". This is ludicrous.

[novalib]

29. COME ON!!!!

Oh, PLEASE.

You and I both KNOW that that is NOT how the B word is meant when someone says something like "b****-slap".

I'm fine with people using the b word to refer to female dogs (although, for the life of me, I do not understand why female dogs cannot simply be called "female dogs"!).

[MoonRiver]

47. I honestly do not know how the term "bitch slapped" originated.

I believe it could refer to a female dog, or it might refer to a female human. Whatever, it is a term used here to describe somebody in the political arena getting the best of somebody else. It's original meaning has NOTHING to do with it's political meaning on DU.

[wickerwoman]

141. It originated with pimps

talking about how they keep women forced into prostitution in line- a "bitch-slap" which means hitting a woman in the face hard enough to knock her to the floor.

It's what my downstairs neighbor does to his wife when she can't keep their baby quiet.

To me it is an irrediemably ugly and ignorant thing to say, but I guess I'm just "over-sensitive". :eyes:

[MercutioATC]

50. Then this must be a dog magazine, right??? (linky inside)

http://www.bitchmagazine.com/newsite/


...cause there's no way a feminist magazine would be called "Bitch"...

:eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

57. You don't 'get' it, do you? nt

[MercutioATC]

62. Of course I do. They're proud to use the "bitch" label to describe themselves.

They view it as a "we don't take shit from anybody" label.


It's all about context.

[Captain Hilts]

283. I do the same thing. With my friends. Not in public. It IS about context and place.

I'm not saying no one should never use the word 'bitch'. I use it, but only in certain settings.

[mongo]

247. Ha!

Standard I don't have a leg to stand on reply -
You don't 'get' it, do you? nt

[Atman]

64. Really? I thought it was like whacking your dog in the nose with a newspaper

:shrug:

Ain't language grand?

:)


.

[jannyk]

110. Nor why vaginas and penises

cannot be referred to simply as 'down there' and 'private parts' I presume?

[Atman]

33. "Some words should not be used?"

:wow:

Are you sure you're in the right party?

Words are groupings of letters. I YOU don't like them, YOU shouldn't use them, and you should hang out only in places where people think exactly like you do. :shrug:

The world is a big, scary place, and right now WORDS are the least scary thing I can think of...except the ones which spew from Bush's mouth, but that's for entirely different reasons. He really IS saying scary, hateful stuff intentionally.

[novalib]

44. YES -- Some Words SHOULD NOT be Used!

Pick your jaw up off the ground.

"Words are groupings of letters. I YOU don't like them, YOU shouldn't use them, and you should hang out only in places where people think exactly like you do.

Yep, and some words just should not be used.

Words like k*** (derogatory term fro Jewish people).

Or s*** (derogatory term for Hispanic people)

Or n***** (derogatory term for African people)

Or b**** (derogatory term for Women)

Or h*** (derogatory term for Jewish people)

Some words are SO hateful and SO disrespectful that they should NEVER be used!!

[jgraz]

52. I suggest caps-lock SHOULD NOT BE USED

[novalib]

63. They are Just LETTERS!!!!!!

CAPLOCKED WORDS are particular types of letters. I YOU don't like them, YOU shouldn't use them, and you should hang out only in places where people think exactly like you do.

(A paraphrase of something someone else posted on this thread!)

[jgraz]

68. But they are the WORST LETTERS!!!

Like *

or *

or (even worse) *

[novalib]

79. NO! NO! NO!

* or * or even * are NOT the worst letters!!!

WHAT ARE YOU THINKING??!!!!

Have you COMPLETELY FORGOTTEN about $&#*@*O()@(@???

Or ?><>>@#P)(#)@))(!@@!!! !!!

And I NEVER want to see %&#&@*@#!!!(#(*$++@##@!!!!!!!!!

[Goblinmonger]

215. Are we 10?

Is this conversation happening on the playground? You can actually type the words when you are talking about the usage of them and god will not strike you dead. See, watch:
Kike, spic, nigger, bitch, and hebe are very deragatory words that show the ignorance and hatred of the people that use them.

See, I'm still alive and kicking.

[ms liberty]

114. I'm sorry - did you say...

"some words should not be used"

If that is true, perhaps you could rephrase this sentence...

"It so DEMEANS and DISRESPECTS women!!!"

You see, that sentence should actually be:

"It is so DEMEANING and DISRESPECTFUL to women!!!"

Apparently, many are now deliberately using the word "disrespect" in ways which are not grammatically correct. I don't like it. Why? Because I am extremely irritated when people intentionally malign the English language.

I would not have dreamed of being so rude as to bring it up, but since "some words should not be used"...

[malaise]

115. How does it demean anyone

It's just a word and sometimes it's the perfect description.

[MoonRiver]

16. We can't say that anymore?

:shrug::wtf:

[Maiden England]

21. Well I assume 'they' will make an exception if you are referring to

Your female pet dog. :silly:

[MoonRiver]

26. There are those among us, who rabidly object to the term Repuke.

Gotta be nicey nice to our avowed and hated enemy. :eyes:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

30. Delete

[MoonRiver]

34. Please tell me you forgot the sarcasm smilie.

Otherwise I may have to hurt you. :sarcasm:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

45. apparently...

I am being disingenuous *sigh*

:popcorn:

and yes I was definitely, and continue to be, :sarcasm:

[MercutioATC]

19. I'm with you. Some people have severe "lack of unobstructed elimination security"

In non-PC-speak, they have a stick up their ass.

Feel free to roll your eyes and snicker at them.

[Mr_Spock]

35. lol

I couldn't think of a good way to express my agreement with the O/P - you have done it for me. :D

[jannyk]

113. nominated as best reply yet n/t

[grizmaster]

244. brilliant turn of phrase

let the snickering and eye-rolling commence

[Redstone]

23. Good for you. Continue to stand your ground; I'm proud of you.

Redstone

[madmusic]

28. All I know is, Nancy Grace is a bitch...

So is Bill O'Reilly.

I'm an asshole, dick, jerk, pig.

Now that that's out of the way, can we move on?

[Captain Hilts]

31. 'Dick' you won't hear on TV and 'asshole' , 'jerk' and 'pig' are not exclusive to men. nt

[madmusic]

100. I see, I think...

So it is the gender specificity of it.

Main Entry: 1bitch
Pronunciation: 'bich
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English bicche, from Old English bicce
1 : the female of the dog or some other carnivorous mammals
2 a : a lewd or immoral woman b : a malicious, spiteful, or overbearing woman -- sometimes used as a generalized term of abuse
3 : something that is extremely difficult, objectionable, or unpleasant
4 : COMPLAINT

Only # 2 is gender specific, and even b is only "sometimes" used a a generalized term of abuse.

In context of Nancy Grace, I meant "malicious" and "spiteful." Bill O'Reilly is the same. But it wasn't an abuse of all women. Grace is, actually, a bitch, by definition. Even her supporters would likely agree she can be malicious and spiteful, but they think that's good. The intent in that is not to abuse her, not any more than any other rhetoric is intended to abuse. It's intended to make the point as succinctly and powerfully as possible. I can't think of a better word to describe Grace or O'Reilly. Though with O'Reilly I might call him an "asshole" instead, but it would mean the exact same thing: "malicious" and "spiteful" or more likely "self-righteous" and "delusional." Calling O'Reilly an asshole would carry connotations of him spouting off more power than he really has. The thing about slang is that there are shades of meaning for almost any context. They rarely mean exactly the same thing in every circumstance. In fact, if curse words have a common denominator, it might be this: "Here we go again, life!" They are expressions of experience and their definition is always shaped by the experience.

BTW, been there, done that, been those things. Who hasn't? Never been a woman though.

[ThsMchneKilsFascists]

174. What about Dick VanDyke? (n/t)

[Maiden England]

56. Which is of course an insult to female dogs everywhere.

My female border collie is most offended.

[madmusic]

78. What a cool picture!

I showed it to my dog but he didn't smell anything.

Thanks for the smile.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

32. Please, let's not

bastardize ourselves by being so petty!

[Captain Hilts]

36. 'Bastardize' is fine. It is not exclusive to either sex. nt

[jgraz]

41. As the child of a single parent, I'm HURT and OFFENDED

[MoonRiver]

38. Do I hear an echo? n/t

[MercutioATC]

40. No more silly flaming?? What a gyp....

:P

[Atman]

74. Good one!

How many will it be lost on?

.

[ms liberty]

123. Not me! BTW, Atman...

upthread you forgot to mention "dago" (LOL) mr liberty got called that once by a coworker as a joke and he had NO idea what it meant! I was ROFL when he told me about it, because his family is French Huguenot, and he looks very much like his French ancestry - I told him his friend should have called him a "frog", that THAT would have been an accurate slur!

[Goblinmonger]

217. Excellent

I have so many "good liberals" who hate the use of "non-PC" words tell me they got gyped. They just look with blank stares when I tell them that is an affront to my ancestors.

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. knr

[THUNDER HANDS]

60. meh

Personally, I could care less what words people use. The only power they have is what power I let them have.

[ruggerson]

61. I posted a thread similar to this recently

and got screamed at by virulently angry PC monitors.

I agree with you 100 percent. We do ourselves no good with this idiocy of taking everything so fucking seriously. People need to learn how to laugh at themselves and lighten up. Our fight and our mission is what is deadly serious, we ourselves don't have to be (all the time).

[Mr_Spock]

76. Hear! Hear!

I'm so tired of seeing good conversations degenerate into the minutiae of trying to determine exactly how many people may have been offended by the words chosen in a particular post. This is a political site - a thick skin is in order here, else we make ourselves irrelevant.

[Ignacio Upton]

69. Unfortunately, you have a point

And no, railing against political correctness doesn't automatically make you a racist. An example of PC gone too far is on college campuses. While the extent of college liberalism made out by Malkin and Horowitz is bullshit, some schools (mine among them) have a slight "authoritarian left" bent. If you say the word "bitch" you're a mysoginist...even though the overwhelming majority of people of both sexes say it. A campus tv station at my school even got cancelled because a couple of comments made on one of its shows (which is unfair to people working at the station who were not involved!) In another example, last April, the administrators decided to put up a "Wall of Oppression" or something like that on the quad...and tear it down to celebrate how "tolarent" we all are! On each cinder block, some random racial "slur" was written, and among them..."Jew!" and "Black!"

It's one thing to be in favor of respecting people's rights, but it's another thing to institute an authoritarian streak, or "diversity for the sake of diversity." PCism is a liability to progressivism in general.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

70. Look... I've had enough of this...

pussy-footing, ball-busting, diatribe. I'm cock-sure this will end up in an ass-kicking.

[Atman]

71. Stop offending diatribers!

Next, they'll be going after RANTERS!

.

[MercutioATC]

73. Very nice!

:toast:

[Sapphire Blue]

75. Words...

This is from Robert Fulghum's book, All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten...

In the Solomon Islands in the South Pacific some villagers practice a unique form of logging. If a tree is too large to be felled with an ax, the natives cut it down by yelling at it. (Can't lay my hands on the article, but I swear I read it.) Woodsmen with special powers creep up on a tree just at dawn and suddenly scream at it at the top of their lungs. They continue this for thirty days. The tree dies and falls over. The theory is that the hollering kills the spirit of the tree. According to the villagers, it always works.

Ah, those poor naive innocents. Such quaintly charming habits of the jungle. Screaming at trees, indeed. How primitive. Too bad they don't have the advantages of modern technology and the scientific mind.

Me? I yell at my wife. And yell at the telephone and the lawnmower. And yell at the TV and the newspaper and my children. I've even been known to shake my fist and yell at the sky at times.

(snip)

Don't know what good it does. Machines and things just sit there. Even kicking doesn't always help. As for people, well, the Solomon Islanders may have a point. Yelling at living things does tend to kill the spirit in them. Sticks and stones may break our bones, but words will break our hearts...

[countingbluecars]

84. Nice post. Thank you.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

86. Ahh Sapphire...

true words they be. However, levity is a necessary ingredient to dispel too much seriousness.

[hsher]

83. I ain't sayin' *nuthin'* on this one. :)

Mouth shut. Eyes closed. Must turn and leave now. Must turn... and leave... now. Must...

[noamnety]

88. "The Unexamined Propaganda of Political Correctness"

The phrase "politically correct" can be used in two distinct ways: either with its original literal meaning, or with the mocking sarcasm that's common these days. I'll get to the former in a moment, but I'll begin with the latter. As it's commonly used, "PC" is a deliberately imprecise expression (just try finding or writing a terse, precise definition) because its objective isn't to communicate a substantive idea, but simply to sneer and snivel about the linguistic and cultural burdens of treating all people with the respect and sensitivity with which they wish to be treated. Thus, the Herculean effort required to call me "Asian American" rather than "chink" is seen as a concession to "the PC police", an unsettling infringement on the free-wheeling conversation of, I suppose, "non-chinks". Having to refer to black folks as "African Americans" rather than various historically-prevalent epithets surely strikes some red-blooded blue-balled white-men as a form of cultural oppression. Having to refer to "women" rather than "bitches" lays a violent buzzkill on the bar-room banter of men preoccupied with beating on their chests and off other body parts.

Obviously these examples fall on the simplistic side of things, but I think they illustrate the shaky philosophical foundation of today's usage. Underlying every complaint of "PC" is the absurd notion that members of dominant mainstream society have been victimized by an arbitrarily hypersensitive prohibition against linguistic and cultural constructions that are considered historical manifestations of bigotry. It's no coincidence that "PC"-snivelers are for the most part white men who are essentially saying, "Who the hell do these marginalized groups think they are to tell me how I should or shouldn't portray them? I'm not going to say 'mentally challenged' when it's my right to say 'retard', goshdarnit there's only so much abuse I'll take!"

(snip)

...Simply put, the great "PC" cliché, as commonly deployed in mainstream discourse, is cultural propaganda designed to befuddle and misdirect while defending the current power structure. All politics deal with power relations, and in the debate over America's alleged climate of "political correctness", there's a stark asymmetry of power between the defiant megaphone-wielders who complain of being constrained by humorless hypersensitivity from below, and the under-represented people of color, women, LGBT, handicapped, poor, and otherwise marginalized or dispossessed people who have no choice but to absorb the linguistic, cultural, and physical barbs of the ruling class. The megaphone-wielders feel psycho-emotionally oppressed by their inability to crack puerile ethnic jokes without criticism; the under-represented simply feel oppressed.

http://www.kaichang.net/2006/11/the_sloppy_prop.html

Some women choose to use language in a way that reinforces white male power structure. Others find it unacceptable to use language in a way that belittles women - just as it would be unacceptable to use language in a way that belittles nonwhites, as has been already noted in the discussion here. I've yet to figure out why racism isn't socially acceptable, but open misogyny is.

[readmoreoften]

139. Good article. My complicated opinion.

"Bitch slap" means a dominant male hitting a woman, usually a pimp hitting a hooker to keep her in line. When used against a man, it is the double insult of meaning that he is both a woman and woman submissive to the speaker.

On the other hand, I say "bitch slap" and other such slang among friends. I know their politics. I'm also an ex-sexworker. I consider the source. If a really aggro hetero guy on DU who constantly makes derogratory comments said "bitch-slap" I'd probably be offended. If a feminist used it in full knowledge of its meaning, I'd be less irritated. I don't know why. I suppose the use of "bitch slap" just confirms what I already knew it the first case-- it serves as evidence. In the second case, I'd probably find the comment harmless.

[Captain Hilts]

184. What's wrong with good manners? I don't say 'fuck' among strangers. Or 'bitch'.

Doesn't mean I don't use them. But there is a time and place.

[Ladyhawk]

90. I admit to using the slang term "bitch-slap" on occasion.

I'm not going to stop using it. If I tried to go through life without offending anyone, I'd never open my mouth. Fundies don't like it when I swear. Right-wingers don't like it when I refer to their president as "Pretzeldent Shrub," "Dumbya," "Commander Cuckoo-Bananas," etc. Religious people don't like it when I concur with Thomas Edison that "religion is bunk." Some women may not like it when I use the word "bitch-slap." If black people can use the word "nigga" or "nigger," why can't a woman use the word "bitch-slap"? Are we creating rules for this kind of thing?

[Gelliebeans]

124. I agree with you!

I try not to offend either and in the end when I do I offer up this apology to you :)

Phew covered my bases. :hide:

[Captain Hilts]

181. I use it too, to describe the forehand and backhand slap. But not in public settings. nt

[The Straight Story]

91. The word 'THE' offends me, it has 'HE' in it after a cross looking thing

and the government uses it all the time, forcing me to believe in Jesus. I....can't....stop....the...brain takover....too weak for words....

[uppityperson]

93. best post of the topic

[The Straight Story]

96. It all reminds me of Howard Stern and the FCC and having to find ways

around saying directly something (Or finding a way to say it that means something different - like when he played fill in the blank on the air and he yelled out <blank> willow).

It's a control thing, which I am not real fond of.

[DemoDemoCratCrat]

92. Watch your language, customer....

For my ING Direct account, setting up a logon requires me to choose a "pass phrase" that matched a picture. This is supposed to be a guard against counterfeit web sites. One of the pictures they provided happened to be the same breed and sex as one of my dogs. Great! A whippet bitch! I can remember that!

But, no. ING servers rejected my pass phrase, and automatically scolded me for my "inappropriate language." In red letters, even. My own, private pass phrase, quality-checked against the moral compass of bankers. Sheesh.

[NEDem]

97. This thread reminds me of the movie 'PCU'

Sometimes it doesn't hurt to take a step back and look at the big picture.

[ms liberty]

126. "Skyrockets in flight! Afternoon Delight!...

Aaa-aa-afternoon delight!"


SORRY! I just couldn't help myself. One of the funniest scenes ever.

[ms liberty]

99. I'm with you on this, KC...

Here's what I had to say on this same subject earlier today...


"When someone calls me a bitch, they may INTEND it to be demeaning and derogatory, but what they actually are saying is that they can't handle the fact that I am independent and make my own decisions. They can't handle it that I am my own woman, they can't handle that I refuse to accept their belief in their superiority to me.

When I am called a bitch, I say Thank You! I consider it a compliment, because it means I have stood up for myself. Their intention is THEIR problem, not mine.

When someone uses the word c***, it is an indication of bad manners and vulgarity. Again, I do not feel demeaned - because THEY are the one with a problem, not ME.

Sure, I could get all worked up and insulted about this kind of thing, but why? There are a lot of damn idiots in the world. I don't have to give their beliefs a validity they don't deserve."

I happen to think the word "bitch" is appropriate in some situations. I can count on one hand, with fingers left over, the number of times I have spit that word at someone else in anger. So, do I indiscriminately use it? No. There are entirely too many excellent words in the English language to rely upon any one word to describe anyone or anything. And if someone wants to use a word I don't like, I'm not going to sic the thought police on them. I'm going to consider it in context, taking into account the speaker and their intention. I'll get insulted if I need to - but I won't if I don't.

So KC, I join you in celebration of the phrase "bitch-slap" - and the word "bitch." I have said many times that I would like to bitch-slap The Decider and Crashcart into next year. And you can be damn sure I would be a BITCH while I was slapping them!

edited: spelling error!

[ruggerson]

101. Have they screamed at you yet that "Political Correctness" is a rightwing meme?

If not, it's coming. Trust me. :)

[eridani]

102. Can't we reclaim derogatory words?

LGBT folks have certainly reclaimed "dyke" and "faggot" don't you think? Me--I'm fully connected with my inner bitch. To me it says no more taking shit from people in the name of being "nice."

[Atman]

108. That's a good point.

Watching "The L Word," it is LOADED with "offensive" terminology. Likewise, what about gangstas calling each other nigger? Just own the words! Take 'em back. Soon, they'll cease to have the shock value as an insult.

.

[Codeblue]

227. Reminds of Clerks 2

and Randall's insistence that the use of the term "porch monkey" was okay because "I'm taking it back."

[tsuki]

103. I know you from shared experiences. As a woman, if you want

to bitch slap someone, I take no offense. :hi:

[sandnsea]

111. Are you fucking kidding me???

PM's and notes from mods over the word bitch???? Good god. Can people learn the meaning of 'live and let live'. THIS is the reason we lose in the red states folks. Get the hell over yourselves.

Call me bitch - just don't call me cupcake. (And if you do, the bitch in me can take care of it all by myself, no waaaaa to the moderators necessary)

Sorry that happened to you.

[jannyk]

120. Ooooh yes, Nothing brings out my inner bitch

quite like a man I don't know calling me 'honey' or 'sweetheart'.

[bananas]

140. What's a cupcake?

I feel so ignorant and ill-informed.

[Vorta]

116. There is a bay in Maryland called Assawoman.

I kid you not. check out the highlights

From Discover Maryland

Assacorkin Island, Chincoteague Bay (I didn't know about this one, but it's fun too)
Assateague Island, Atlantic Ocean
Ayers Island, Trappe Creek
Bay Island, Chincoteague Bay
Beacon Clumps, Chincoteague Bay
Big Island, Assawoman Bay
Boar Island, Assawoman Bay
Brady Island, Assawoman Bay
Cedar Island, Chincoteague Bay
Collier Island, Isle of Wight Bay
Corn Hammock, Assawoman Bay
Cropper Island, Newport Bay
Devil Island, Assawoman Bay
Dog and Bitch Island, Isle of Wight Bay
Drum Island, Isle of Wight Bay
Eagle Island, St. Martin River
Fenwick Island, Atlantic Ocean
Gambage Island, Turville Creek
Grassy Island, Isle of Wight Bay
Great Egging Island, Chincoteague Bay
Hen and Chickens Island, St. Martin River
Hills Island, Assawoman Bay
Hog Island, Johnson Bay
Horn Island, Isle of Wight Bay
Horse Island, Assawoman Bay

[MercutioATC]

291. There's a navigational aid (air traffic) in Wyoming called Crazy Woman (CZI).

[Atman]

117. Okay then...why do some consider "fuck" so offensive? And, what about...

It's offensive to whom, exacty? Fuckers? People with vaginas OR penises? How about "shit," since both sexes apparently do it (except school teachers...they never go to the bathroom!). So since we're not actually insulting anyone, who determined it was offensive to use one word for "the act" between two people, but not another?

Your preacher, your momma or daddy, that's who, and they were offended because they were also TAUGHT to be offended.

What makes a word offensive isn't the definition of the word, it is society's reaction to it. The "shit" episode of South Park was a prime example of the silliness and pettiness of what so many find offensive. Only YOU can allow yourself to be offended at now-generic words like "bitch" and "dick."

And further expanding on how screwed up our culture is, Janet Jackson caused a major uproar by exposing one breast on television one night. But today, on a non-premium/basic-cable station, I watched in a amazement a program called "Tribal..." something. It was on the Travel Channel. It was about a tribe of indigenous people of an island off Vanuatu, and the not only were the woman all mostly nude, old National Geographic style, the MEN and BOYS wore nothing except a leaf wrapped around their penis, with their scrotums exposed. In one scene, they actually showed a small boy wrapping up his tiny unit in leaves. The men were bungy-jumping with vines, and the first thing they did when they landed safely was to grab their penis, give it a good yank. This was all perfectly acceptable to show on television WHY? Janet Jackson's breast cost the network millions and supposedly shocked the nation, but a 7 year old boy can be shown wrapping his penis in yam leaves, and the men can be shown naked and free-balling with their penis decorated into a permanent erection WHY? My white schmeckle is "offenive" if shown on tv, but not these guys? Who says? Just because they don't know any better, or it's cultural?

Oh...did I mention that visiting the tribe in question actually is a tourist destination? So don't try to say these people just haven't been exposed (pardon the pun) to "civilized" culture. They know all about it, and they seem to actually perform for us "civilized" ones.

It stretches the original topic, but it is a very similar discussion...who tells us what is "offensive" and why?

.

[muriel_volestrangler]

143. There's a documentary about that out now

Is this an f-word too far?

A new documentary can't be mentioned by name in some American publications. Why on earth not, asks Rowan Walker

The New York Times was a little nonplussed: 'Just to clear up any confusion: the four stars in the box accompanying this article do not represent a rave review, though I did quite enjoy the movie in question.' The four stars were for another reason, because the review by the acclaimed critic Anthony Scott was for a film which had 'the big swearword' in the title. And the Times does not print big swearwords, however commonly they are used.

The F-word is still, despite its almost constant use, tricky. Rarely a day goes by when I don't hear it, see it, say it, or think it and those FCUK tops still catch my eye. So what is the appeal of this four-letter word, if it's not just about sex?

One man in America is determined to find out. 'It all started as a joke,' said director Steve Anderson, whose latest film, Fuck: A Fuckumentary, has just been released in America to much chin-rubbing commentary. Scott described the effort to get the bottom of the word's unmistakable power as 'rowdy and contentious'.

'I have been known to use the word in mixed company and even, I blush to admit, around my children,' Scott said. 'But only pedagogically, to call attention to the laxity of other drivers on family car trips. Never in front of the readers, though. Which is as it should be. Mr Anderson's movie is staged as a talking-head culture-war skirmish between embattled upholders of propriety (or repression, if you prefer) and proponents of free expression (or filth), but its real lesson is that the two sides depend upon each other. Or rather, that the continued vitality of the word rests on its ability to mark an edge between the permissible and the profane.' Quite.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,1951740,00.html

Though strangely, if you visit their website, it includes in the top right corner "MORE ON 'Fuck'". One standard for the Web, another for print, it seems.

[boolean]

118. I love you

Marry me.

[file83]

133. No NO! ME FIRST!

KyndCulture, Please marry meeeeee!

That was an awesome rant! :yourock:

[valerief]

119. I don't like bullies, no matter what words are used. Bitch-slap is

a cute expression used for and by both men and women. It's not really any different from dope-slap.

Bullies, trolls, well, I got some words for them that I can't use here.

[HardRocker05]

199. hey, 'nigger' is used for whites and blacks; it's no different than 'jerk.'

not.

[valerief]

285. Why mention the N word? Are you a freeper troll? nt

[neebob]

121. Could it be because the person you said you wanted to bitch slap

had said something demeaning about another group?

I don't have a problem with the word bitch, either - and this is where I have to say the bob in my handle doesn't mean I'm a guy - but the post in question does have bit of a pot-kettle feel. Funny how no one took you to task in the actual thread.

[guruoo]

125. You got MOD warnings for that?

You're kidding, right?

[kevinbgoode]

131. I'm not going to criticize you. . .

but the whole point of how "political correctness" has been slandered over these past few years by the idiotic RIGHT is that we need to consider where the use of "slang" originated and WHY. It amazes me that con-servatives can sneer about "political correctness" and yet they refuse to identify their OWN political correctness - meaning the use of demeaning slang and namecalling that originated FROM their kind to degrade others.

Obviously, your intent was not to offend anyone, and I understand why you are steaming about that part of it. I don't hold that against you because I'm sure that your intent wasn't to upset anyone with the use of the term. That being said, however, this acquiescence to the Right's sneering about "political correctness" over and over again belies their OWN version of the same thing - which, by the way, was terminology usually created and used by them and entered into the mainstrea. I have often wondered why we have let them get away with that sneering without standing up for something - after all, is there something WRONG with being CORRECT in this country, or are we all trying desperately to celebrate ignorance?

[omega minimo]

132. So much defiance and ignorance here about the right to offend people

Through the whole thread, so many folks just so pleased with their right to be obnoxious and piss off others. No mention of "DU rules based on respect." Not one person describes the origin or meaning of "bitchslap." Or mentions that these discussions about "bitch" and "bitchslap" have occurred on DU before, repeatedly. "Bitchslap" was discouraged by Admin and the Mods, for a time.

"I have spent this weekend defending one word I said in a little post. Bitch-slap. Ok I got many PMs from people who took offense to the word bitch. I got mod warnings.... I never ever called someone a bitch... I merely said "bitch-slap" a slang term."

"Bitch-slap" a slang term" that has become more common in usage--does anyone think or care about what it means or where it came from? You think people are offended by "bitch" but you "never ever called someone a bitch... merely said 'bitch-slap' a slang term"........ AS IF BITCHSLAP IS NOT OFFENSIVE?! :crazy:

"There are some words, slang words, that ARE really offensive.... but then again, there are some words that only someone looking to be offended WILL be offended. And really, that's sad."

What's really, really sad is that so many people place more value on being offensive than they do on being respectful.

[Atman]

134. I think too many place too much value in being offendED.

It seems to be a hobby of some bored posters. They place too much value in cleaning up messes that aren't really there, and in doing just create bigger messes.

.

[omega minimo]

138. The mess being cleaned up is Ignorance

[Name removed]

136. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Captain Hilts]

188. What's wrong with being polite? nt

[Atman]

135. Another buh-in to buh-in

[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dastard Stepchild]

142. Are bitch slap and pimp slap kinda the same thing?

I'm actually curious. I'm not being a pain in the ass. This topic just reminded me that I always wondered that.

I'm not too partial to the word bitch myself, but only because I tend to hear women use it to describe themselves when they are expressing or displaying evidence of assertiveness that they are not comfortable with. It makes me want to take their hands and say, "Listen here, it's a-ok to be an assertive individual. Doesn't make you a bitch... just makes you assertive."

But whatever. I wouldn't call someone on it. At least not in such a direct way. That doesn't feel too empowering either.

[MercutioATC]

290. No. "Bitchslap" is with the palm of an open hand..."Pimpslap" is with the back of the hand.

[tpsbmam]

144. Picking and choosing what offends us

I'm fascinated by this discussion, mainly because though I've been reading DU for years, I've only started posting recently. I've paid more attention to the language used since I started posting.

I'm fascinated because so many people here object to the use of the word "bitch." But I have yet to see anyone object to the use "retard" or "freeptard" or anything else attached to "...tard." So I guess that makes it okay.*


It's not okay. It's a highly pejorative word, one that hurts people who truly have mental retardation or other types of cognitive challenges. It has only become pejorative because it's used as a slur, and I might add that it's become a hugely popular slur. The diagnosis itself isn't the pejorative, it's the way in which people use it. It's co-opting someone's disability and using that disability as a slur to put down other people.

My point is simply this: folks seem to pick and choose the words that offend them (me included). I find "freeptard" or any other kind of "....tard" highly offensivem, no matter who it's aimed at. Saying "freeptard" doesn't hurt a Republican as much as it hurts the people who live with mental retardation. People who use it are taking a serious and difficult medical diagnosis and using it as a put down. I frankly think that's far more offensive than "bitch." But it's used regularly on DU.

Just a little equal opportunity observation here.




*(I qualify this to day that I'm sure there have been objections but I simply haven't read closely enough or long enough to see them. I haven't seen any objections in the last month or two.)

[Atman]

150. One of the best points of the entire thread!

I, too, find "freeptard" or any "...tard" reference to be infinitely more repugnant than any "bitch" comment. Still, though, you won't find any posts wherein I call for people to "stop using certain words." Using a slur like "...tard" speaks to the thoughtlessness of the poster, though, not DU, the board, or democrats in general. In fact, the so-called offenders are dispersed equally on both sides of the aisle.

.

[Captain Hilts]

185. Referring to a woman as a 'bitch' or anyone as a 'fuckhead' just isn't appropriate...

in public discussions. It doesn't mean we don't use these terms.

And, there's no parallel for men for 'bitch', which creates problems.

[Goblinmonger]

219. dickhead doesn't count?

Can't imagine using that one on the ladies.

[tpsbmam]

229. I never said it was okay....

but I take it from your post that it's more acceptable to refer to someone as a retard? (Or any other kind of "....tard") Both are doing exactly the same thing. Bitch is demeaning to women, "retard" puts down an entire population of people in the same way. But "....tard" appears entirely acceptable to people on this board.

I guess I simply don't get your response. And this is exactly what I was referring to -- picking and choosing what offends us. I find "retard" highly offensive. Would I walk up to someone with cognitive challenges and say that? Hell no, and I doubt you would either. Only an ignorant bully would do that. But it's okay to use that as a slur on a very public message board? Or even in private? I don't get it and never will.

[cwydro]

191. First time I've seen this mentioned.

Thank you.

[tpsbmam]

230. Wow....

I'm so surprised. I've given people hell who say that around me, even when they're being self-deprecating. But then again, I worked with people who had all kinds of challenges (including mental retardation) for many, many years -- I'm pretty sensitive to that stuff. I know well how much it hurts people with mental retardation to hear this bandied about as a put down.

[cwydro]

234. yes...

until recently that is the population I worked with for years.

[deutsey]

145. Thoughtcrime is doublesplusungood

:evilfrown:

[Swamp Rat]

146. Where's George Carlin?

:shrug:

[demwing]

147. Oh Bitch, Bitch, Bitch

All some people do is bitch and complain.

What a bunch of dick-headed pussies.

Must have been some up-tight, fat white male. Probably a stupid, home-schooling, homo-phobe that believes in the big invisible sky fairies.

Oops. I said "Fairies"! Remind me now, is that on the approved list of socially acceptable words?

Better not offend the wrong people. Just the people its OK to offend. If it is an approved word, I'll stop using it immediately. I wouldn't want to march too far in lockstep.

Until then, Bitch on KyndCulture! Else I may have to bitch slap some motherfuckers!

And thank Jesus on the bloody cross that we live in a free country, where we are protected from our own insecurities, stupidities, and oppressive correctness.

[EnviroBat]

165. Right ON!

Now this is the freedom of speech I remember!

[sendero]

149. I got into a similar..

... agrument last week with a classic 70s liberal who STILL hasn't figured out that people don't like being told what they can say.

People hate leftist thought police as much as they hate the right thought police.

[rman]

151. agreed

[lukasahero]

152. "Bitch slap" is something done to a woman "who deserves it", isn't it?

At least that's always been my understanding. "Slap that bitch", right? That "bitch" needs to be "slapped".

If people can't see the why others would find that offensive, or better yet, care that they hurting others with their words, then that tells me all I need to know about that person. If the "n" word were used without regard to its history and meaning and without care for the people it hurts, my reaction would be the same: the person using it is not someone I want in my circle of friends.

[Roland99]

156. I always figured it was a guy-to-guy thing. A guy whining like a little bitch

needs to be bitch-slapped.


Much like many a Freeper needs. :evilgrin:

[Atman]

163. I think you unwittingly made a very salient point...

YOU think "bitch-slap" means one thing. Many posters disagree, and think it means another. If no one can even agree on the meaning of the term, how can we expect universal agreement on whether or not a particular person is intending it to be taken a particular way? The word clearly has multiple dictionary definitions, and only one of them is gender-specific. Why is THAT the definition the one that should be codified as "the" definition? If EVERYONE educated themselves on the meaningS of the word -- "bitch" haters and "bitch" lovers alike -- we wouldn't be here bitching about it. Life's a bitch! What can I say?

.

[lukasahero]

167. And you make one yourself

If someone tells me that I have offended them with my words, I apologize and try not to do so again. I respect them, their feelings and their wishes.

Not sure why that's so hard for some people to do.

[HardRocker05]

202. what do *you* think it means, and what is the 'acceptable' usage/meaning? nt

[Captain Hilts]

187. I thought it was the forehand followed by the backhand a la Anne Gottlieb,

the wife of the Canadian Ambassador to the US.

INFAMOUS slap at a formal function.

[HardRocker05]

201. that's my understanding, but this bitch slaps back. nt

[Roland99]

155. I have LONG said that Political Correctness is the bane of the left

"OH, I'm SO offended you used that harsh word! Oh my! Whatever will I do now??"



FUCK THAT SHIT!


You know what offends me?

My gov't waging wars for corporate gain.
My gov't treating drowning Americans like debris.
My gov't ignoring the millions of Americans living in poverty.
My gov't failing to provide a means for all Americans to obtain health insurance.
My gov't moving toward a police state.
My gov't in bed with far-right religious radicals.

THAT'S what offends me!

Not some word like bitch-slap or w/o the -slap or some word on Carlin's list.



GET A CLUE, YOU PC MORANS!!!

[Marr]

189. Yeah, no kidding.

It's a stupid waste of time, and it's offensive on top of that. It amazes me that some people can feel they've been personally assaulted by someone else's use of a fucking WORD, but feel completely justified in telling other people how to speak.

Seriously people, you look stupid when you start telling people what they should and should not say.

[semillama]

225. Dude, bitchin' post.

oh, wait, is that one of the banned uses of the word? Bummer. Wait, is the word "bummer" insensitive to the homeless? That's a drag. Oh shit! Now I've offended crossdressers!

[Roland99]

276. Better stop before you start channeling Michael Richards

:D

[indepat]

157. Bltch-slap would seem a nice fit for referencing any/all sons-of-bitches

:D

[earth mom]

160. Always trying to be "PC" is what's wrong with the democratic party.

On some subjects, yes, Political Correctness is non negotiable. But c'mon now! I'm a woman and there are times that I find the word Bitch to be the ONLY appropriate word and yeah, I've said it on DU a few times about some of the people in the * cabal, like Babs & Condi & Ann. However, I don't toss the word around lightly. And I make no apologies because those women deserve being called out for the hateful women they are.

One of the best lines I've found when it comes to the word Bitch is:

Quit yer Bitchin'. Good advice for those who can't handle the truth.

[HardRocker05]

204. there's a difference between 'bitch' and 'bitch-slap.' 'bitch' can be okay, depending

depending on who uses it - like we all know when racist repugs use 'nigger' it not quite the same as when blacks use it about other blacks. 'bitch-slap' on the other hand, contains a reference to violence, usually 'deserved' violence, and ANYBODY is treading on thin ice when they use that expression.

[dogday]

162. It's a bitch when you have to watch what you say

all the time, especially when you don't mean anything by your statement.....

[Captain Hilts]

211. You should care if it offends people. Associating negative phenomenah with things female...

is not a compliment. And, in this case, it derives from men complaining about their wives.

[dogday]

271. The word as I used it was describing a problem

a situation, not a person, not a sex... You define it as such when you raise the issue when it is not used in any type of gender specific terms... The word shit is not always used to refer to feces, but to a problem or a bad situation...

This is the problem of PC to a point. When you are not trying to offend, yet still do... I am a female by the way, the word doesn't bother me like it used to.. Actually the more it is used, the less offensive I have found it... Years ago when someone would call me a bitch, oh it would stir up righteous indignation, but now, I proudly wear the title and doesn't bother me a bit....

[BlackVelvet04]

166. Some people have nothing better to do than be offended.

The authoritarians on the left aren't any easier to deal with than the ones on the right.

I didn't shake off the shackles of conformity from the right just to accept them from the left.

[kiahzero]

169. You're right

It is too much to ask that people think a little bit about the feelings of other people.

[Patiod]

171. Hey, someone on another thread got spanked for "nanny state"

Someone accused them of misogyny.

I'm actually pretty sensitive to gender slurs (just ranted about the use of the term "catty" to describe Pelosi), but Nanny State?

[bloom]

175. It's easy to be offensive when you're clueless.

The term "Nanny State" is a right-wing clueless, sexist term. I think it should be fair game to call anyone on sexist terms. If people continue to use the terms - at least they know that they are being offensive. Apparently you didn't know that people see the term as sexist and offensive and so now you do.


I've seen the term used to defend sexism and misogyny in particular (not here, necessarily - but other places).


But "calling people" on calling people for being sexist is just stupid, IMO. What's the point of that? It's saying that people are supposed to accept sexism. Pretend it doesn't exist. As if that would make it go away - or lessen how common it is. Sorry - but that just doesn't work.

Sure the society is sexist and so you hear sexist stuff all the time. So we turn off the TV and ignore it. We can put sexist posters on ignore. But when a lot of people accept /use sexist language or even when 21% of the people accept sexism (and racism - see http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2702685 ) - I don't see any other choice but to call people on it.


Why shouldn't DU be a place of social justice - social change, even - instead of being a playground for clueless, sexist, racist people - who don't care.

[Annces]

178. I agree

This is what I would say, if I could put it in as clear words as you did.

I find that it bends the mind, that some people want to be offensive when there are alternatives. Some people like to hide aggression behind humor IMO.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

228. Not all nannies are female

It seems rather sexist for someone to be offended on sexist grounds about a term that refers to a gender neutral profession.

[bloom]

231. As we found out

the last time this came up - app. 99% of nannies/childcare givers are, in fact, female. And this is a just a canard for people in denial.


It is not sexist to oppose sexism. Or racist to oppose racism. To say otherwise is just more denial of the (real) problem.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

232. Oppression of the 1% minority

They don't count.....got it.

[bloom]

235. So here you have a term that is meant to demean "nannies"

(and in the process demean people who are interested in the regulation of actions that are harmful to people - by linking such regulations to women care givers)

and you think that if the male nannies are not demeaned to the same degree as the female nannies (because people recognize that 99% of the nannies are female) that the non-demeaned-male-nannies are oppressed??? (Men as a group are not being dissed by the term - women are).


I think you have some explaining to do.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

248. The original grounds for offense to the term was sexism

I pointed out not all nannies are female, to which your retort was that due to the fact males are a small portion of that group, it essentially doesn't matter. Considering our liberal sensitivities are often geared to minorities, I found it curious you took that tact.

If you want to now shift the term "nanny state" as offensive to nannies as a whole, male or female, be my guest. It's not my fight.

Although I have to say, the part of the initial statement in this post I found most interesting was...."demean people who are interested in the regulation of actions that are harmful to people". Maybe it says to me that complaining about using the term "nanny state" and the offense it cause to nannies is the real canard here.

[bloom]

254. I think that the thing of it is

that while I said it was sexist - I didn't go to great lenths to explain it.

If you want to know what I really think about it - see this (warning - It might be offensive to people who like to whine about Nanny-States):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2732111

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

255. Interesting

As someone who's never used the term "nanny-state" to describe what I consider governmental interference (In fact today is the first time I've ever even typed the phrase) on certain issues, you bring up some good points. I still don't see it as intentionally sexist, but you state your case well.

I would contend that using the term "nanny" instead of "father" or "mother" is a way of saying "You aren't my father!" or "You aren't my mother!", which seems to be the viceral and snap response to the idea of these type of laws.

I still wonder if the response to the term is more about being upset that people are insulting you, and not that they are using sexism to do it.

And mind you, so you know where I stand I'm all for anti-smoking laws for example because the behavior does affect others and against say, the trans fat law because it affects no one but you. But that's another issue.

[bloom]

263. the trans fat thing, etc.

I said, "I'm not for regulating people's behavior that doesn't adversely affect others - the way it is, though, a lot of people won't admit when their behavior adversely affects others."

And how I see the trans fat issue is - that restaurants are adversely affecting others if they use it and it would be a nuisance to have to keep track of which restaurants were using it and which ones weren't. It has also mostly been the restaurant lobby lobbying for it - so follow the money and see who is being selfish at whose expense.

But I would even go farther than that. I see nothing wrong with the FDA having requirements that food not be esp. harmful - and from what I saw about the trans fat thing - it's not food - it's some weird chemical concoction being sold as food. I don't think people have a right to sell whatever they want and call it food.

I would also demand that makeup and stuff not have toxic stuff in them. I think it's too much for individuals to keep track of all the crap that all the companies want to put in stuff. In Europe - more of that stuff is regulated. Some American companies are changing their formulas because of the European countries standards - because we don't have any.

I envy Europe. I should live somewhere like Denmark or Sweden or something.

Bernie Sanders is one of the few politicians who gets it - AFIAC.

[T Town Jake]

246. Nanny-nanny boo-boo! Nanny-nanny boo-boo!!

...guess that makes me on old meanie, huh? ...(snicker)....

[omega minimo]

262. "Why shouldn't DU be a place of social justice - social change, even?"

[warrens]

173. PC may be the single largest weakness Dems have

It insults one's intelligence. The whiniest of whiny behavior.

[HardRocker05]

207. so it's OK to call a black arab guy a nigger-dick-raghead? honey, words have meanings

meanings and consequences, and sometimes it's not 'PC' it's common decency and common sense. you may have the right to offend as many people as you choose, but expect to be offended in return and to live in a very unpleasant environment.

[progressoid]

177. Can I still call R's douche-bags?

[Captain Hilts]

213. I'd rather you didn't. Again, giving negative connotations to things associated with women...

IS sexist and not appropriate for public fora.

It works both ways, to call them 'scumbags', ie. used condoms, also isn't proper in PUBLIC discussion. Use whatever you want in private conversations.

[Ms. Clio]

186. no, I would never agree with that

words are rhetoric, and rhetoric has power.

You should try reading the newspapers from the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. Day after day, year after year, when something involved an African American, he or she became simply, "the negro" or "the negress." Headline: "Young Man Dies in Shooting Affray" v. "Negro Dead." The word reinforced on a continual basis that white was the norm and black was the other, and often a menacing beast: "Negro Rape Fiend Burned by Vengeful Mob."

No. Political correctness is a term originally used by the rightwing to demand their right to be racist, vicious, and demeaning in their political and social discourse. I reject it as a false category.

[Writer]

192. Another goddamned victim of identity politics.

How incredibly patronizing it is for other individuals to tell you how you should be offended as a woman! Like not every Hispanic is offended by Cheech and Chong, not every woman is offended by the word bitch. Count me as yet another woman who doesn't care.

This is, oh, perhaps the third time I've seen this type of bullshit occur in liberal circles. If liberals feel they must protect the greater good, they need to acknowledge that there's a greater good to begin with, not someone's solipsistic political interests.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

196. You go girl!

Oops ... was that offensive?





When the defender becomes as abusive as an abuser ... what's the fkn difference?? I'll choose and fight my own battles, thanks. Now someone can come tell me that's "mighty white" of me.

[Atman]

218. Funny you should say that!

My wife got elected to the Board of Directors at the co-op community where we have a summer place. It was basically always run by men, with women usually relegated to the Secretary position. She got one of her friends to run, too, and they both won. The old fat white men in the power positions would have none of it, and they frequently found parlamentary provisions which allowed them to hold unannounced "emergency" meeting where they could carry on without the influence of the meddling women. But the point is, the terminology. You know what set off my wife and the other female member of the board? They were always referred to by the old white men as "the girls." Always in tandem, as if the two women couldn't form an independant thought, and always as "the girls," never by their names. The old men couldn't understand for the life of them why these two women, both professionals in the outside careers, would be offended, and they never stopped. Until my wife refused to run again, and her friend eventually resigned, because there was no power at all in being just "the girl."

"The girls" was very offensive to my wife and her friend. Which is what makes this entire argument so silly. There will always be SOMETHING out there that will offend SOMEONE, and it is folly to think we're going to ever reach a point where everyone is perfectly happy with the English language. We have a constitutional right to offend, but there is no corresponding right not to be offended. Because then we'd have to have a state-sanctioned list of proper words, and we'd all be speaking like four year olds. Oops, no. Four years olds say "poop." That would probably offend some of the more righteous DUers, too!

[SaveOurDemocracy]

224. Which all shows to go ya ...

it's the INTENT behind the words!!!! That's exactly why I used that phrase.

Yes, it's harder to define intent with the written word, but it's not impossible. Taking a term in context usually allows for an accurate read of the writers intent. If I'm unsure, I'll generally assume it was not meant in the most negative way possible.

[noamnety]

193. One of the things that should be apparent here

Is that if you want your message to be clear, using sexist or racist terms to convey that message will put the focus on whether or not you are sexist/racist, rather than whatever meaning you were originally going for. And it sounds like you found that out first-hand.

So as a purely practical matter, it seems to me effective communication would include using language that doesn't detract from your message.

In a conversation with someone offline, we were discussing this in terms of a child knocking over a glass of water at a restaurant. If the parent says "waiter, could we have another glass of water and some napkins?" the focus is on the situation. If the parent says "waiter, we need more water because my stupid idiot child doesn't know how to behave like a human" - well, the focus shifts to what a disrespectful and unpleasant parent they are - even though the parent was trying to put the focus on how bad the other person is.

If you want to complain about (insert favorite right-wing villain), that's fine. If you do it in a way that brings sexist/racist language into the discussion, you shouldn't be surprised if people focus on your behavior and attitudes instead of your message.

[lukasahero]

197. Nicely done, Iwfern

Thank you for that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

194. I disagree on the PC thing.

But I haven't got a problem with the word "bitch" in most circumstances.

"There are some words, slang words, that ARE really offensive.... but then again, there are some words that only someone looking to be offended WILL be offended. And really, that's sad."

Agree.

[Captain Hilts]

Too often our language uses things associated with women for negative uses or to offend men. nt

[BlooInBloo]

195. Sure. If you're suitably stupid and illiterate.

[Atman]

206. So, "bitch-slap" is offensive, but calling people stupid and illiterate is...?

Hmm. See how different things are offensive to different people? I'm not offended by bitch-slap at all, nor "dick" nor "peckerhead," although those are strictly gender-based pejoratives, while "bitch" has distinct dictionary definitions unrelated to sex. But I AM offended by the incessant meddling of the thought police who want everybody to sound like dialog from a "Dick & Jane" reader. Except you'd probably find that use of "Dick" offensive, too!

.

[BlooInBloo]

209. Offensive? Tough call - that's largely in the ear of the listener. Sexist? Of course it is.

The rest of what you said was too genius to merit response.

[HardRocker05]

214. well actually 'stupid and illiterate' IS offensive. try telling your boss that s/he is

stupid and illiterate. you will learn a new lesson in life and that is that words have consequences. i'm guessing that the poster of 'stupid and illiterate' intended to offend; at least s/he knew what s/he was doing, as presumably was willing to accept the consequences. you are living in a fantasy world indeed if you think that you can go around saying whatever you want and never suffer a single negative reaction.

[Atman]

220. The key word is IF

"you are living in a fantasy world indeed if you think that you can go around saying whatever you want and never suffer a single negative reaction."

IF. But since I don't think that, I guess it doesn't apply.

Of course, also dwelling in that fantasy world are those who think they can go around never hearing anything they find offensive.

:shrug:

.

[WHAT]

198. The Gostak and the Doshes...

(I just read this short story by Miles J. Breuer)

It's hard to explain but the premise "the gostak distims the doshes" is used as a revelatory statement to bind perspective and thus elicit support. The thing is, the meaning is only derivative to the shared co-ordinates of the perspective (society).

This was a good little story and I wish I could explain it better. In a way, it explains why arguments like this make sense to some people but not to others. On a personal note, it may explain my/your bewilderment; what's the big deal?. A lot of times, the noisy people seem to be in another field in an upside-down world.

anyway, I guess I'm responding because that story is still fresh and interesting to me and I'm applying it to your experience...

by the way, gostak distim and doshes aren't covered by spell check; spell check bitch-slap isn't a problem

[shadowknows69]

203. I love you, you dedicated bitch you

And I agree. If someone is offended. Say so but accept an apology and move on. Bitch-slap is not calling someone a bitch. There's a serious lack of concern for such insults when they're directed at our opponents as well. There are frequent references to people's sexuality, weight, intellect and other personal matters that are completely un PC to mention. Kyndculture is a valued member of this community and I for one will cut her some slack.

[HardRocker05]

216. personally, i feel like niggerdick-slapping people who use the expression 'bitch-slap.'

no offense.

[Red Right and BLUE]

223. .

:spank:

[Atman]

221. You want offensive? I got yer offensive right here!

:hi:

.

[Red Right and BLUE]

222. I agree with you.

While I would never call someone a racial slur, I think there is WAY too much sensitivity here (and judgment).

It's all subjective and unfortunately I think this is something that one half of DU'ers are always going to fight about with the other half. It's damn annoying, but I don't think it's going to change without specific rules put in place, which frankly, I don't want. We're all different here and it's about time people fucking got used to it.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

226. It's the internet.......a lot of whiners

DU is great, one of my top five favorite stops while surfing. The vast majority of people who post here are cool, and know the difference between "taking issue" and "taking offense".

Unfortunatly, the success of the board also leads to the attraction of many wingnuts and trolls and netkops who's only joy in life is registering their rightous indignation, flaming without reading people's defense of themselves, and then reporting people to the mods. The mods are in a tight spot, because I'm sure they get this sort of bullshit all the time.

As I said, the vast majority here are cool and I'd hang out with them any day of the week. But there are some, and they can be pretty vocal seeing as they have no life, who just ruin it for everyone.

[Captain Hilts]

238. That's awfully white of you, ProudtobeBlueinRhody! Thanks!

Hey, they're just words...

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

250. I hope I didn't hit a nerve, Mookie

I would hope you aren't a netkop..........are you?

[T Town Jake]

236. My only question is: Is the Eleventh edition THE 'definitive edition'?

...a guy named Syme told me it was at lunch the other day, but I wasn't sure....

[La Lioness Priyanka]

237. so are you ok with words like nigger? or faggot?

there is a reason for PC..so civilized society can actually be civilized.

on edit: i do use bitch when describing myself but can see how the word is sexist.

[Duncan Grant]

243. I'm an entitled straight white man and I'll say whatever the fuck I like.

They're just words and I'll defy you just on principle... :sarcasm:

Can you believe the lengths some people will go to in order to justify (and rationalize) their ignorance and bad manners? The lack of empathy is shameful.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

251. Strange use of sarcasm

Being that the OP is a female and all.

[Duncan Grant]

257. Consider it an "inside joke".

I think lionesspriyanka will understand the reference.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

259. Okay, sorry

:hi:

[lukasahero]

245. My guess would be no

I have been awesruck by the rationalization I've seen suggesting that the "n" word isn't about PC-ness but the "b" word is. And there's no way in hell any of these people would use the "f" word around here. So in case you haven't noticed the pattern, let me spell it out: it's just us wimmin folk who have our panties in a twist.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

264. Is "bitch" comparable to "nigger" or "faggot?"

I'd say no. Definitely not.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

272. its not...but the argument made here is that we are too PC

who gets to draw the line?

if someone was offended by the word bitch...maybe this could just have been posted asking how bitch is truly offensive.

but i think there is a good reason to err on the side of politeness

[buckettgirl]

240. Apparently it isn't PC to use *obese* anymore, either

I was told this by a nurse when I was doing a clinical for my pediatric nursing class...
She told me that "we don't use the word obese anymore; its just considered overweight." She looked me in the eye and said this with a straight face...
Now, the irony is that I am obese! Granted, I have lost much weight, and have gone from a BMI of 47.8, which is morbidly obese down to a BMI of 36, which is just obese... but still.
She basically looked me in the eye and told me that I shouldn't call myself obese.
My personal truth was defined long ago: I am fat, I am obese. No matter how low I get my weight, I will still be reduced-obese (which *is* physiologically different from the never-obese). I am not offended by the word obese.
I just found that to be incredibly stupid of her to tell me... :eyes:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

252. You should sue your nursing teacher

She was clearly patronizing you. Hold on, I know a good lawyer who'll take the case when he gets back from his shift at the emergency room lobby. ;)

[buckettgirl]

269. hehe...

Actually, it wasn't my instructor... it was a nurse for Head Start and the conversation was related to overweight/obesity in children and how to approach parents about the subject...
I can tell you that this lady, although very good at her job, was very dingy, I doubt she realized what she was saying until it was too late. LOL it was funny though.

[grizmaster]

241. almost as absurd as the sh!tstorm the word niggardly

has stirred up on several times in the last few years.

In that case even though the word has absolutely zero relationship to n****r people still attacked it's use just because it sounds like something offensive.

Well consider me a bitch and a prick, because I don't see the value of beating into the ground secondary or tertiary meanings of words.

[mongo]

242. It has gotten way out of hand

Now even the phrase "nanny state" gets derision on DU.

Geesh. The language police need to get a life.

[T Town Jake]

249. Now you've gone and done it, you old mean Nanny-nanny boo-boo you!

:rofl:

[porphyrian]

258. Words have all the power you give them.

People can still use them like weapons against you, though, and sometimes that alone hurts.

[omega minimo]

260. Does anyone ever read DU Rules?

:shrug:

[hfojvt]

261. you've put too much energy into defending something

that shouldn't be defended.

What are you defending?

1) the harmlessness and inoffensive nature of that word or phrase? - I remain unconvinced
2) your right to continue to use it? - there is still free speech in America, but DU has rules. My view would be that you should not continue to use it based on the above. I would err on the side of being too sensitive. Mostly because I, myself, am sensitive to some commonly used terms - paddy wagon, anemic, mouth breather, etc.
3) your innocent intentions when using the phrase, and your belief in its essential harmlessness. - I will take your word on the first part, but do not buy the 2nd part. Not with that phrase, although I might make the same defense of the word 'black' because I have yet to meet a black person who was offended by it (except for my roommate from India who did not want to admit he is black). But that's another story.

As for your calling yourself a b*tch, I would argue against that as well. I think you are misusing the term. If you stand up for someone being wronged, even if you do so vociferously, that is not being a b*tch. The dictionary defines that as "a malicious, unpleasant, selfish woman, esp. one who stops at nothing to reach her goal." You may have the last part and the unpleasant part in what you do, but if you are doing it without maliciousness or selfishness then it does not fit the definition. A woman is not a b*tch just because she is angry, persistent, determined, or loud. There needs to be maliciousness to justify the term.

To me, the term b*tch-slap seems to endorse bullying behaviour as it is used approvingly of somebody either physically or verbally dominating a subordinate, and it equates the subordinate role with the feminine.

[omega minimo]

267. Apt, brilliant, funny... thanks hfojvt

:spray:

[Atman]

266. A bitch's perspective...

I was sitting at lunch today and nearly snarfed food out my nose as I read this comment in Snowboarder Magazine's "The Ladies' View" section, a Q&A with half a dozen women riders. I thought the whole section was a bit sexist in the first place -- one question was "Do your boobs get in the way?" -- but this was the very last, final line of the section, an interview with rider Laura Hadar:

Q: Where's the male g-spot?

A: All dogs are out for one thing. Hell, so am I! Because I'm a bitch, bitch!



Just for reference, the other "ladies" (which I've been told is offensive in its own right) anwered the same question with "His ego" (2 said that), "There are books for that if you need some help," and "Ewwww!"

[ms liberty]

268. I took an informal poll today about this...

In one of my classes. About 20 women, from fresh out of high school, up to about my age (mid-late 40's). They were women of varied income brackets and backgrounds, and various levels of education, political leanings, and beliefs. I didn't get into the details, or my opinion before they answered. I asked "are you offended, or do you find it offensive when someone uses the word 'bitch' or the phrase 'bitch-slap'?" I qualified it by telling them that I did not mean when someone called them a bitch, or threatened them with being bitch-slapped.

Not even one woman was offended. I expected that there might be one or two who were - but none of them felt the word or phrase to be offensive to them as women. The women who commented spontaneously said it was nit-picky, and even if someone called them a bitch, it wouldn't offend them but would reflect upon the person using it.

I thought that was interesting. It's not a scientific poll by any means, but these are all women living in the "real world" and it may be a more reality-based viewpoint than we tend to see on this board, which attracts those of us who are more activists and political junkies than the general population.

[mongo]

286. You said it all

a more reality-based viewpoint than we tend to see on this board

:toast:

[bamacrat]

270. Political Correctness has gone way too far.

Political correctness sucks, its restrictive, and dems seem to get offended way too easily. Which is my only problem with the party. Wish this were Canada and our party was the liberal party, then there would be no hair-splitting.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

273. waddabuncha

bullshit!! NO, I'll not apologize to any bulls who may choose to be insulted.


Have you ever noticed that when many once 'forbidden' words reach wide-spread 'slang' status they lose the power of their original intent to shock demean and insult? They become just words again, devoid of power, because they've been robbed of their special status.

[omega minimo]

275. Did you know that the medical Latin term for female genitalia means "To Be Ashamed"?

the power remains in words even when the people that use them forget

[SaveOurDemocracy]

278. ummmmmmmm ... no

... and that certainly doesn't disprove my point. Should I be ashamed of my vagina??? Live in the past if you want ... but gimme a fuckin break! I could care less what the original root word was. Sheesh ... now we all need to learn Latin?

[omega minimo]

279. Words have power

[VelmaD]

274. a simple point to make and plea for respect

It boils down to this...everyone on this board knows at this point that some women find the word bitch offensive. So why the desire to keep right on using a word you KNOW is going to cause some people to think you're an asshole, especially if you don't mean to be one?

So what that now every woman agrees whether it's really really offensive or not? As long as you know a significant number of women find it offensive...why keep on doing it? Are there not about a thousand other words you could use instead?

It boils down to this...if you cannot make your point without using insulting or offensive language then you need to spend less time arguing on the internet and more time expanding your vocabulary.

And btw, the "PC thing" was created by racist, sexist, homophobic assholes so that they could continue to be racist, sexist, homophobic assholes and say the most outrageous racist, sexist, homophobic shit and not have to suffer any consequences for it.

[omega minimo]

277. They don't care, don't want to "expand" and think Respect folk should piss off

Great post, VelmaD, all of it.

And one point being, crudeness makes it harder to tell the real trolls who knows it causes trouble from the righteous venters who don't care that it causes trouble.

[Captain Hilts]

281. People confuse private and public spaces. It's about manners. Thanks VelmaD. nt

[LanternWaste]

287. If we accept that PC = Respect

If we accept that "Political Correctness" is simply part and parcel of Respect for Others (which I believe to be the case), then "Political Correctness has gone too far" would read "Respect for others has gone too far."

I can't imagine respect ever going too far.

[Karenina]

288. (Pssst.... KyndCulture)

Tell it to Michael Richards! :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[GymGeekAus]

289. I think "bitch-slap" means more than "bitch" + "slap."

When you "bitch-slap" someone, the image that comes to my mind is leaning back and swinging your arm in such a way that your open hand connects to their face, possibly knocking the person down. It means more than slapping someone, it means more than calling them a bitch, and it means more than the union of the two.

I think that "bitch-slapping" does have misogynist roots. It's how people, particularly men, would assert their "superiority" over others, especially women, who "overstepped" their authority. I think it's used because one wants to "teach a lesson" to another. There are all sorts of examples of this strike being used in movies and television. It's basically the breakdown of discussion, where one side resorts to violence instead of reason. "Might makes right, respect me at the very least for my physical strength."

The action itself conveys the deepest LACK of respect for another person. And it is obviously violence.

However, when you say that someone should be bitch-slapped, what you're really saying is that you disrespect that person. You're not necessarily promoting violence, but certainly you're expressing your disrespect. Nobody can make you respect someone else--the most we can require as a society is that you don't act violently against them.

The roots of a word don't dictate how it is used. Especially online, where we often exaggerate our position in order to demonstrate a point.

I know it is a safe assertion to say that KyndCulture is not a misogynist.

Maybe she's guilty of a little hyperbole. But that's all, I expect.

[nini]

292. I'm with you.. I must have a thick skin about this stuff

You want to piss me off? Tell me my grandson isn't going to grow up in a world with clean air or opportunities. Tell me I can't do something because I'm a woman, tell me I am wrong because I believe in myself enough to not get all wound up because someone says the word bitch around me or about me.

Words can only have an effect on you that you allow them to. With all the shit going on in the world I am amazed that this is the kind of stuff that gets people's underwear in a bunch.

[PBass]

293. Did everyone miss the point? Seems like it,

but I started skimming over this thread when it started going way way off-topic.

Let me explain...


Bitch-slap and Pimp-slap are offensive because they refer to hitting a woman.

[nini]

294. perhaps in origin

but the common use of it today is not. Therefore, my opinion is unchanged and that does not mean I condone anyone hitting a woman (or anyone for that matter).

[NaturalHigh]

295. Some people are just looking for a reason to get pissed off.

Don't let it get to you.

[joe_sixpack]

298. That's not the reason this poster was banned, was it?

that's pretty incredible.