What's the REAL reason the neo cons won't leave Iraq?

[Philosoraptor]

They say pulling out is too simple, one must have extrememly complicated retreats from disasterous situations, one can't just walk willy nilly out the exit door, that's just too easy.

The neo cons refuse to admit defeat, disaster, or anything else other than this imaginary victory, or the imaginary job that need to be finished.

We've heard all the lies and lame excuses, what is the real reason they don't want to leave this clusterfuck? Is it ultimatley about saving face, while all these people continue to die?

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. OIL

n/t

[Hubert Flottz]

6. I agree...

[ProfessorGAC]

30. I Honestly Don't Think It's Oil

I think this is the gravy train for the defense industry who are the folks that REALLY funded the neocon takeover. Oil was just the "strategic interest" excuse to go over there, but the real money is being funneled into the defense contractors who actually directly, actively, and strictly control the pricing structure. Even the oil guys can't do that, since they don't run OPEC and can't tell every speculator and bidder what to spend. (They have influence, but not control.)

I think they don't want to pull out of Iraq because that would cut off the free flow of taxpayer funds into their personal portfolios, and we're talking BILLIONS not some liquor store hold-up cash.
The Professor

[DoYouEverWonder]

31. The estimated value of the Oil underneath Iraq

is in the trillions of dollars. The 200+ billion that they've already spent is just a drop in the bucket.

[ProfessorGAC]

35. That's Too Linear For Me

The value of the oil, while substantial, still isn't within their direct control. And no amount of bombing people will ever get complete control of it, since Russia, China, India, and our current allies will never sit still while we wrest complete control of a resource. But, pretending it's about oil and looting the treasury in the name of national defense and "strategic interest" is something for which there is no defense except the light of day.

And, we're never getting that $200 billion back (i think, btw, we've spent more than that) no more who controls the oil. The people who stood to profit from war have already got their money. And, the more we spend on pretending to be at war, the more they make, and nobody ever has to account for it.

While i follow your reasoning, i think there's more to it than the intrinsic value of the resource. It, i believe, has a lot more to do with what money they CAN take, rather than what they might have one day. One is concrete. The other is an abstraction.
The Professor

[shadowknows69]

38. Not like they've spent their own money either

But hey gas is down to 2.39 a gallon where I am so I guess we're getting a return. :sarcasm:

[Mythsaje]

2. They're looking for a good scapegoat

and the smart ones have already run for cover.

I think, ultimately, it'll be the Shrub. But they can't do it now because they have another election they want to win.

And they can't justify bailing until they can blame someone for the whole debacle and pretend it was none of their idea.

When Shrub leaves office, he's gonna be in BIG trouble. He's just too stupid to realize it. They're going to rake him over the coals like NO ONE has ever been raked before. And it won't be the Dems doing it...unless they actually manage to get something going before 08.

Nope, it'll be the Repugs doing everything they can to distance themselves from this fiasco.

[CJCRANE]

3. Makes me wonder

if the neocons really know what they're doing or
if they're just an unholy alliance of incompatible interests scrabbling for power and money.

[cali]

4. You're kidding right?

Or you haven't been paying attention. The neocons have been deserting the sinking ship of Iraq in droves. There have been many articles in recent weeks regarding this.

[Philosoraptor]

7. Tell it to the Marines still dying there

the neo cons only pop into the green zone occassionally to drum up votes, THEY are not in Iraq dying, our soldiers are. but yes, even perle and wolfiewitz and a dozen other neo nazis have bailed on bush. while they all dither, our sons and daughters and brothers and sisters die.

[cali]

9. I suspect that you

like so many others apply the neocon label rather, er, liberally. I'm not expressing support for the neocons or the hideous war, simply pointing out facts. One fact is that not everyone pushing or supporting the war is a neocon, the other is that those neocons that were instrumental in supporting the war, have largely withdrawn their support for various reasons, most of them lousy.

[rman]

18. do you think the neocons will get the troops out of the middle east any time soon?

[cali]

24. What does that have to do with the

issue I raised? Nothing. I'm simply pointing out a couple of things: 1) that the word neocon is often wrongly applied. 2) that the neocons have been abandoning Iraq in droves, and 3) that not everyone supporting the war is a neocon.

[rman]

28. The issue raised by the OP is "the reason why neocons won't leave Iraq"

It seems you take that literally, but everyone knows that none of the neocon power mongers are actually on the ground in Iraq. So the issue is the neocon's war in Iraq and why they won't pull out the troops - and that's the issue that i addressed.

[NOLADEM]

5. You should read their website...PNAC tells you why

They invaded Iraq first because it was percieved as the easiest of the three planned wars. Iraq would then serve as a forward operating base to then attack Iran and Syria, to then allow Israel to have its way in the region, and we get the oil.

They won't leave because this war is only step 1, and if they leave, they know they won't be going back, and all their buddies in AIPAC and PNAC would be pissed.

[sweettater]

8. You are quite correct

Thanks for the reality check.

[Philosoraptor]

10. exactly

and phase two seems about ready to begin.

[librechik]

34. Ding! Ding! Ding! exactly right. These silly gooses are done

In fact they're burned to ugly coals and are stinkin up the kitchen. Now they fight being thrown out in the sty for the pigs to eat.

That is not going to be fun.


For them!


:rofl:

[Swamp Rat]

11. Because there is oil in Iran

[Philosoraptor]

12. I want all of Columbia's coffee & cocaine or we nuke them too.

And all of Belgium's chocolate too. America needs oil and chocolate and coffee and cocaine, and dammit we'll have it by nuke or crook.

isn't she lovely?

[FogerRox]

13. Isn't that our oil under your sand?

[Philosoraptor]

14. Like the Navajo's land under their feet was ours too

[FogerRox]

32. He he he, I smell what U R cookin.

[FogerRox]

33. He he he, I smell what U R cookin.

[maine_raptor]

15. If the Neo-Cons want to stay

Let them.

Just bring everybody else home. Lets see how long Bush, Cheney, Wolfie, et al can hold out in the Green Zone.

[The Count]

16. Pass a law against war profiteering - and see them scurry...(Randi Rhodes)

[Philosoraptor]

17. surely there are laws against war profiteering

sedition act, or something, but law is such a relative thing to the uber powerful

[The Count]

19. Not anymore there aren't. Used to be - WW2, but a certain family saw to it

that there aren't any now. Just asl Bechtel & Halliburton.

[sendero]

23. Exactly..

... war profiteering and election fraud should be serious offenses with mandatory prison time. Right now, there is simply no real deterrent to either.

[crickets]

20. Follow the money - nt

[OregonBlue]

21. Follow the money. It is now and has always been about oil and money.

War profiteering is an "entitlement" for this bunch. Probably afraid the economy will collapse as well. Their obscene profits definitely will.

[sendero]

22. They are an empire now...

.. and when they act, they create their own reality.

They are just waiting for that reality to manifest itself in the reality the rest of us experience :)

[MGD]

25. This is just my opinion but I truly believe it has much to with a triangular relationship

involving the middle-east, China, and America. If we pull out of Iraq, our influence in the region will wane and Iran will solidify its position as a regional superpower by successfully testing a nuclear device. At that point, the Chinese government will come in and throw its money around (as we saw in Panama for example) and ensure that Chinese businessmen will develop and control the vast majority of middle eastern oil resources. As a result, America will be left in a desperate situation. As if this weren't bad enough, there is the distinct possibility that fanatical anti-American terrorist elements will end up controlling a vast pool of wealth in Iraq which does not bode well for the US or the world for that matter. Just my opinion.

[blogslut]

26. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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[Ganja Ninja]

27. They're hoping to dump this can of worms on the next ...

President so Bush can sit back and criticize when the inevitable happens. It's the scapegoat strategy. Get George Bush out of Iraq while leaving the problem for the country to deal with after he's gone.

[NNN0LHI]

29. MASS GRAVES! Recent MASS GRAVES

What does one do with hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqi men, women and children? More than 600,000 at last count.

Don

[leftofthedial]

36. $$$$$$

control of oil supplies--keeping Iraq's oil off the market makes them more money than allowing it into the market, especially indexed to the Euro instead of the dollar.

there also is a mythical imperialistic fascination with the Middle East (Babylon and Persia). If it was a good enough target for Alexander and the Romans, then it's good enough for the neocons.

[Norquist Nemesis]

Foot in the door of Dominionism. n/t

[sakabatou]

37. Money makes the world go round...