I am not a pawn in some game.

[EdwardM]

I am a 20 year old male. I have voted straight Democratic in two elections. I protested against the Iraq War several times. I have done everything to encourage my friends and family to be against the war and against Bush. I am against war in general. War is an absolute last resort after we have no opportunity to settle matters diplomatically. Wars are not to be fought by choice and war is not a game of chess. I am not a pawn for someone's game of chess. At least I thought so. But now I look at a poll here at Democratic Underground, and 40 percent of my fellow DUers support drafting me into Iraq.

Well, I say hell no. I will not go to Iraq. I will not shoot innocent Iraqis who have never hurt me. I will not follow the commands of corrupt leaders to torture "terrorists" who are really just civilians who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. I will not help Bush create his empire in the Middle East. And according to the polls, the vast majority of draft age males agree with me. So why must we fight for this war?

I will go to prison before I go and serve in Bush's war of choice. I am against any politician who enables this war, including any Democrats who are calling for people my age to be drafted. We are not pawns in a game of chess. We are human beings, who do not deserve to be forced into Iraq and commit war crimes. Please don't use us as pawns in your political strategy.

[ixion]

1. yeah, I don't really understand all this talk of a dem-initiated draft... it's crazy

in a very grand sense of being crazy. Not only do I not support the idea of a draft, for the dems, it is political suicide.


Sounds like a DLC pushed initiative, to me.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. It may be the only way to wake people up

and force them to take a stand.

It's easy to support a war of choice, when you're own ass isn't on the line.

Just sit back and watch all the little BushBots throw hissy fits over this one.

[EdwardM]

3. I'm not a bush bot.

And most 20 year olds are not. Do you think we should go to Iraq?

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. I didn't say you were

but what Rangel is doing is meant to make the idiots that support Bush no matter what, put their money where their mouth is.

[EdwardM]

6. I know you didn't

I'm just pointing out that a draft doesn't just draft "Bush Bots." It doesn't discriminate. A draft will draft any young person randomly, regardless of their political beliefs. It will not just punish "Bush Bots." It will also punish people like me who were against the war since the beginning.

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. Might be a good idea

for young people who oppose the war to get their ducks in a row so they can qualify for conscientious objector status.

[EdwardM]

15. The conscientious objector is not enough.

Not everyone who applies for conscientious objector status will get it. If the draft were to be reinstated, many people who do not agree with the war will be forced to go, or go to prison.

[union_maid]

12. That made a certain amount of sense before

With the Republicans in charge of everything, that made sense, although I didn't agree with the tactic then either. It makes no sense now that I can see. I agree that our young people are not pawns in a political game and shouldn't be treated as such. And if any Democrat votes for such a measure, we'll have Republican rule for a generation to come. The draft sucked. And it would only prevent foolish wars temporarily. My generation grew up knowing the males were subject to the draft and would likely be drafted at some point or other. They coped with it in different ways, but they accepted. Their fathers went to war. Some of them had uncles who went to Korea. There was always a war to go be sent to fight. It took many more years and many more deaths than we've had in Iraq to put an end to it.

[bulletsandspikes]

26. I know you aren't saying this but I should have to die so that some idiot can wake up.

[JVS]

62. Why not choose an age group that actually voted for Bush, like boomers

[bigriver]

54. Wake people up

to vote dems out of office?

[Zhade]

64. Except that a majority of Americans DON'T support the war.

So the plan is to draft even those who ALREADY don't support the war.

How does that make sense?

If a majority of Americans still supported the war, your argument could be made. But they don't.

[Postman]

7. It's a strategy to get more people active in controlling this administration...

with no chance of succeeding passage in Congress precisely for the reason Rangel states HIS reason for wanting to reinstate the Draft.

If there were a reinstatement of the Draft, you would see more people than there already are, rising up against the occupation of Iraq and their planned war against Iran.

Maybe you might see the hypocrites who supported Bush's folly in Iraq (as long as it wasn't their ass on the line) come out saying "hey, wait a minute. That's my kid you're sending to kill and die for BS reasons"...

I understand the strategy behind Rangel's suggestion, I don't trust politicians of any sort playing war games with my, or anyone else's kids.

For that reason I am against the Draft.

You A-holes in Washington are NOT going to play with the lives of our children for YOUR economic and/or political gain.

As if I or my children benefit from Exxon/Mobil making gazillions of dollars in profit. No Thanks.

It's not about "defending America". It's about protecting corporate profits. I say send the CEO's over to fight them if they want their lust for greed satisfied.

[INdemo]

22. A Congressman should not play games with such an issue

Sure I understand his point but one must understand that there are less informed voters than we are here at DU.They dont understand what Rangel meant by it except that the Democrats want to bring back the draft.What do you suppose the media will be saying about this.
Of course the draft issue would never pass in Congress but it sure does give the corporate media fuel to bash the Democrats.Rangel's reasoning is wrong .Rich kids would still find a way to avoid the draft or at least have some desk job somewhere not even close to a battlefield.Rich people buy favors and politicians return those favors.
This war was about (you are correct) oil companies controlling Iraqi oil and it backfired.Has anyone noticed who probably will be getting the big contracts? China

[donheld]

5. No you are not a pawn

I think I understand what Mr Rangel is doing, but still think a draft is the wrong way to go. It's to bad we don't have a way to draft war hawks only.

[maine_raptor]

8. If we can have an all volunteer army

why can't we have an all volunteer war; only those that WANT to fight can go.

As to the OP:

I hear ya, man. With very few changes, your post could have been written 35 years ago.

:thumbsup:

[EdwardM]

24. You're right on.

Infact, it was kind of written 35 years ago. My post was inspired by a speech by Muhammad Ali.

[EdwardM]

9. Well, Mr Rangel is certainly treating me like a pawn.

He thinks the only way to push his political agenda is to support a bill to draft young people like me. I consider that treating me like a pawn.

[Postman]

14. You ARE a pawn.

In a grand chess game of geopolitics.

In many ways, an all-volunteer military gives the crazy foreign policy makers carte-blanche to do with the military as they see fit. After all, you volunteered. You can't bitch about the wars we send you too, no matter how unprotected you are (body armor, etc., etc)...

With Draftees, the policy makers will have to be more careful about who they pick a fight with because then Mom and Dad will be watching their every move about where their sending little Johnny....


Unless of course, the propaganda machine can convince Mom and Dad that eating shit sandwiches is healthy for you...


On edit. Rangel's legislation really is a dodge of Congresses responsibility in checking the imperialist policies of whomever is running the show...

[maine_raptor]

18. I disagree, somewhat, with the last part of your post.

This:

"Rangel's legislation really is a dodge of Congresses responsibility in checking the imperialist policies of whomever is running the show."

As you yourself said, Mommy and Daddy will be watching where Johnny is sent. If he's sent somewhere where he's liable to get his ass shot off, who are Mommy and Daddy going to be yelling at?

Their Congress-critter, that's who.

The willingness to shoulder Congress's responsibility is up to the individual person we send to Congress. That's why we are here and push the candidates we do.

[YOY]

27. Then the opposition repeals the draft in a time of peace

and look like a bunch of god damn heroes.

This draft idea is the stupidest goddamn thing I've ever hear of.

[JVS]

57. !

:thumbsup:

[treestar]

48. That wouldn't be an unreasonable basis for the draft.

When it comes right down to it, those who support the war are in theory those who think there is a threat. They can volunteer to go.

Which is why I ask so many right wingers when they plan to sign up. There shouldn't be an age limit, either.

[seabeyond]

10. you are not a pawn in a game, and it isnt going to be

this is not the first time rangel did this and it isnt going ot pass. i know why rangel does it for all those other 20 yr olds that went into army because of so little other opportunity but it isnt going ot happen. my sons are getting up there in age too and there is no way they would go into a draft either.

[H2O Man]

13. Good.

I like Rep. Rangel, and appreciate the message he is attempting to get across, but the reality is that he is 100% wrong regarding a draft.

There is zero chance that a draft, if and when it takes place, would result in the children of the wealthy elite sharing the responsibility on the front lines. That will not happen. One need look no further than the president and vice president for the classic examples of how drafts that treat all young folk equal still manage to treat some as more equal than others.

More, DUers have had the actual plans for national service that have been pre-packaged by the Pentagon made available to read, back in 2004. "National service" will put the children of the upper class in comfortable domestic positions, where they increase their education and stuff their resume, at tax-payers expense. The children of the middle- and lower economic classes will be the ones forced to fight the wars for the elite.

The answer for our country today isn't to search for ways to be more violent. We need to find ways to live in peace.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. Exactly. This is not a game Mr. Rangel.

His stupid ploy was being predictably bleated by the morning news shows as "Democrats want to reinstate the Draft". Brilliant, Mr. Rangel, just brilliant. He needs to take a time out.


You end the war by voting to cut off funding for the war, as congress did in '75 to finally end the vietnam war. You do not end the war by providing a vast new stream of cheap bodies to staff more and bigger wars.


Ending the war by cutting off funding is what is going to take courage. There are no clever alternatives.

[MGD]

17. Maybe you'll get lucky and your number won't come up.

No point panicking until then.

[rosesaylavee]

19. I agree with you. This is crazy.

The draft issue may just backfire on Rangel and others. The generals are crying for more troops. A draft is an answer to their prayer.

[EdwardM]

20. Yeah you're right, this is a huge strategic mistake.

Turn on Fox News today. All they are talking about today is how some high ranking Democrat wants to reinstate the draft. How will that play in Peoria?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

31. Excellent. Maybe folks will stop worrying about TomKat and talk about things that really

matter.

MKJ

[MoonRiver]

21. I completely agree with you.

Frankly, I have been appalled at what Rangel is doing. I felt like it was a bluff 3 years ago. Obviously not. Way to loose our new majority Dems.
:eyes:

[Glorfindel]

23. I can speak from experience, having been drafted at 19....

I agree with you completely. I didn't want to go, but my only choice was the army or prison. I would never wish that fate on anyone else.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

25. I've been afraid

Bush will bring us to yet another war, then Democrats will have to do the responsible thing and have a draft. Bush will push us into a draft and then we'll get blamed for reinstating it.

I do wish Charlie Rangle would shut up. A draft scares the hell out of me.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

28. I support Rangel's angle (no rhyme intended)

and I'm within the draft age.

If Republicans want to constantly bleat about wars between good and evil, and freedom in peril - let them put their money where their mouth is or stfu.

I agree wholeheartedly with Rangel's bringing this issue to the forefront.

[IndyOp]

29. EdwardM - I hope you are investing time & money building a CO file --

You are most likely to get "Conscientious Objector" status if you have thorough documentation of your anti-war activities and beliefs going back as far into the past as possible.

If you are over 18, then you've already signed up with Selective Service. You should start a conscientious objector file immediately if you haven't begun one already.

http://www.pjcvt.org/co.htm

Q: What is a Conscientious Objector?
A Conscientious Objector (CO) is a person who objects to war in any form and whose belief is based on an ethical, moral or religious training or belief system.

Q: What if I am a Conscientious Objector? How do I tell the military?
To apply for CO status you must write, “I am a Conscientious Objector. I am opposed to all wars.” There is no check off box to write down any reason why you should not serve, so write it down on the bottom of the form, and any other free space. This might mean that you have written that you are a CO several times. Then make 2 photocopies: keep one and mail the other to yourself, but do not open it once it arrives. It is also a good idea to notarize your letter before mailing it. Making these copies is very important because the documents sent to the government will be destroyed, but at least now you will have a copy that has been post-marked with the same date.

Q: What should I do after I submit my registration form? How do I establish a CO file?
After you submit your form, it is a very good idea to start a "CO file" to document that your life reflects your believes. The file may contain letters from friends, teachers, employers or others stating why they believe you are opposed to all wars. These letters will help you later if you ever need to build a case for yourself. In addition to this, write papers in school or letters to the local newspaper regarding your anti-war beliefs. If these letters get published, cut them out, and save them. They will improve your case for not being a good soldier. If you receive military recruiting flyers, write on them that you are a Conscientious Objector, make a photocopy, and send them back. And finally, write a statement of your beliefs regarding your opposition to all wars. This draft can be one page or thirty; it doesn’t really matter, so long as it clearly outlines your stance on war. For more information: Learn more about how to establish a CO file.

How to File a CO Claim
http://www.objector.org/coclaim.html

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

30. I'm a military veteran. I don't want to ever see a draft. Your OP is one of

many, many voices that will be raised, because of Congressman Rangel's proposal.

Do you want to see people of all political, ethnic, economical stripes united? Do you want to see people in the streets, in huge numbers? The passion in your OP would multiplied by millions, if a draft were initiated. This is something of which the cabal is fully aware.

Just the word "draft" spoken by Congressman Rangel has created this hue and cry. No one is willing to be forced to sacrifice themselves or their loved ones to the cabal's immoral, illegal and corrupt enterprise.

Now, I can only hope we will continue to see a seismic shift of the dialog in this somnolent, sleep walking, consumer driven society. Finally.

For three plus long years, only a relatively small group of young men and women have carried the burden of the cabal's war criminal acts on their beleaguered backs, while the majority of citizens in this country have been worrying about little more than whether they'll make another trip to local mall on the weekend.

This is the visceral reaction that should have happened long ago. It's no longer other people or other people's children.

I thank the Honorable Congressman Rangel for having the courage to bear the slings and arrows that will be aimed at him. I thank you for your passionate beliefs and ethics. MKJ

[smoogatz]

32. Can I ask you something?

What's your ethnicity? What's your social class (working, middle, upper, whatever)?

[EdwardM]

33. I am white, lower middle class.

We get by, but my family lives paycheck to paycheck.

[smoogatz]

36. Well, Rangel would argue that affluent whites ("getting by" can mean

different things to different people) are basically exempt from military service in this country, while it's semi-compulsory for poor whites, Latinos and African Americans. Economic social injustice is pushing the poor and marginally poor into the military, in other words. So it's a social justice argument, and a legitimate one. That said, I don't think you should be forced to serve in the military--but I don't think people should be forced to make a choice between military service and poverty, either.

[EdwardM]

38. Many of my friends have joined the military for economical reasons.

They did so it would pay for college. Make no mistake, joining the military would help me economically. College payments are hell, but I would not join the military no matter what.

[smoogatz]

40. Well, there you go. If we had free higher education for everyone who

qualified (as most of Europe does), your friends wouldn't have had to sign up. Rangel's point is that we've decided to use poverty as a prod in order to force people to "volunteer." And that's inherently unfair.

[Generic Other]

34. 40 % of DUers favor a draft?

That's sad.

I fought in another war to end involuntary conscription. I will fight again.

RESIST THE DRAFT!!

[EdwardM]

35. Yep according to this poll about 40 percent of DUers support a draft.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2762839&mesg_id=2762839

[nebenaube]

45. our polls are not scientific....

[bigtree]

37. right on, Edward!

well said

[The2ndWheel]

39. We're all agents of the imperial state

Until you're put in jail for not going along, obviously. We're pawns, we're expendable consumers.

"I will not help Bush create his empire in the Middle East."

Unfortunately, we've been building our empire for a couple hundred years. It'll collapse eventually, yes, but we won't stop voluntarily, no empire does.

[KharmaTrain]

41. I Have a 19-Year Old Son...

At 17, Vietnam was still going on and they were still pulling little ping-pong balls for determining draft dates. I didn't trust Nixon and thought for certain the war would not end until he was out of office (I was pretty close)...I came up with a couple plans. My parents, especially my father who served in WWII and Korea, would have imploded had I made a run for Canada or Sweden, so I looked at an alternative in the Military...even met with a recruiter and he told me options of how I could get into the military and not end up in the rice paddies...hiding at AFRTS radio station in Alaska or Diego Garcia. Fortunately I didn't have to pursue the matter. I did, however, have to get a draft card.

I understand the game of chicken Rangel is playing here. Any Repugnican voting for reinstituting the draft signs their own political suicide note as Repugnicans are more against the draft than we are. They don't mind when someone elses' kids are sent and they almost relish in the "they volunteered" meme, this dirty war would all of a sudden become a real issue in their life, not some video game. While some could hide their kids away or pay off, Joe Sixpack would again be stuck with carrying the GOOP's water here. It'd also force this regime to either up the ante or get out...draw this ugly episode of our history closer to a close than this endless, mindless war for profit.

My son and I have discussed his options. Fortunately he's in college, but I would expect a college deferment won't be offered if they go to reinstituting the draft. While real estate in the Vancouver area would be enticing, I don't count on Canada to be the safe haven...so we're watching this situation closely and may see if I can find him a radio station in Alaska to hide in as well.

This is my thoughts, he could be thinking differently and if he took a stand where like yours, I would proudly support him 1000%. The immorality of this war for profit has already made pawns out of many who couldn't afford college or stuck in dead-end situations where a life in the military...even facing RPGs in Fallujah...is preferable to a life of grinding poverty in some inner city.

Here's hoping the Repugnicans don't have the stones to take up Rangel's bluff...which I feel strongly they won't. I'd see these morons pushing for more outsourcing...more contractors and mercenaries to fill any shortfalls.

Best of Luck...let's hope there's withdrawls soon, so any thought of escalating is killed once and for all.

[zeemike]

42. I am one of those that is for the draft

But not for the sake of having enough military to do the job, but to get rid of the all volunteer military of today.
Rangle was in the military during those times and so was I and I think I know why he whats it.
We do not want or need a military that attracts the sociopaths and violence loving men and women into the service. They only complicate our situation when we do go to war with things like torture and the mistreatment of people, and increase the hatred of the populace that we say we are there to help.
We need a military of normal people from all walks of life to insure a compassionate and fair military.
That having been said I would recommend that all refuse to fight in this war, but when this is settled and we regain our sanity we institute a mandatory compulsory service for all 18-20 year olds for all in all kinds of service to the country prior to there entry into college.
I know this sounds harsh but much good could be done by this, both for our country and for the young people
But I don't have the time to explain it all, so just keep the mind open.

[ArmchairMeme]

43. I don't believe war is the answer

After seeing the M$M shows where amputees talk about how thrilled they are about their injuries and the resulting rehabilitation and that they are so certain that they are capable of going back into the war and that they would do whatever they could to make that happen I am stunned.

I saw a triple amputee, a woman fighter pilot, talk about her therapy on her remaining arm and how it would enable her to again fly her jet fighter I am even more stunned.

I can only think that these people are either brainwashed or in denial of the reality they live in.

The fact that the M$M plays this for their profit without giving equal time to those injured who now live in reality with their diabilities finding it very difficult to get the basic necessities of life is an injustice to all.

In my opinion the war in Iraq was a for profit venture and has been vastly successful for oil companies, defense companies and various investors of both.
Illegal, immoral, unjust and I don't think out country should think about feeding it any more lives, ours or theirs!

[Atman]

44. Sorry, Edward...we ALL are pawns.

Ultimately, the laws will pass or fail and we'll be subjected to them. The powers that be have always used "the people" as pawns. That is the very nature of political gamesmanship.

.

[mzmolly]

46. Neither are the thousands who died in our most recent war.

nt

[treestar]

47. I agree, it should be totally up to you whether you go or not

If you thought the US was truly threatened, you could decide to go. But if you thought it was not, you should not have to.

This is an innoculation against unnecessary wars, if the people most affected make the final decision.

[AngryOldDem]

49. Can DU invite Rangel here....

...so he can explain why he advocates a draft?

I know where you are coming from. My oldest is 15, so I am also very concerned about how this war will affect her. However, the threat of a draft may be what it takes to wake up Mom and Pop America who have absolutely NO problem with this war as long, of course, as THEIR kids don't have to go off to fight it.

If the prospect is laid out that EVERYONE may be subject to going, it may begin to make some people think long and hard about why, exactly, we are in Iraq: You know, all those little piddling details such as the legality of the war, our exit strategy, comparisons to Vietnam, casualty counts, etc., that have gotten lost in the flag-and-apple-pie-my-country-right-or-wrong craze that's been going on for the past four years. It is a conversation that is long past due.

Rangel is simply asking people to walk the walk. It's easy to talk tough if you're sitting safely in the corner, hiding behind somebody else's kid who doesn't have the good luck or good connections to stay home. It's easy to wave the flag and slap a magnetic yellow ribbon on your sedan in support of "the cause." Too easy. And, ultimately, meaningless.

(And by the way, he has introduced this legislation before, and it has gotten nowhere. But that in no way invalidates the point he is making.)

[JVS]

56. I don't think anyone doesn't understand. I still call bullshit.

[ComerPerro]

59. agree. A common misconception here is that those who oppose draft proposals

don't understand why he is proposing it.

but I do understand his motivations. But I still say its bullshit

[Zhade]

69. Again, a majority of Americans now OPPOSE the war.

We don't need to wake them up - they're already awake.

The draft would snare the majority that doesn't support the war to prove a point to the MINORITY that does.

That's just nuts.

Plus, there's the little fact that this whole war is one big war crime, and if a draft were to happen, every draftee's obligation under international law would be to refuse to fight.

[PATRICK]

50. principles are sound, reality isn't

I was temporally drifty and draftable once upon a time. It finally occurs to me I might have ended up in a brig somewhere had events taken a certain course or, more unlikely, as a non com of some sort. By that time the war was winding down anyway. I would never presume to argue forcefully for the draft for another generation, myself no longer eligible(????).

The reasons are as sound as the country is sound. In other words it sounds nice from a nice perspective which doesn't exist yet. Attempting to use this to "wake people up" hoping to cattle prod the youth into activism once more is not principled at all and reflects the monstrosity of life as Americans today. Rangel is perfectly within his rights to offer this as is the right of any patriot, scoundrel or idiot to jump into the argument one way or the other. The draft, as part of a reform and restoration package may be necessary and justified within that context- not as a hopeful forerunner of "citizen responsibility".
It would make more sense to draft everyone of age into the ranks of registered "informed voters" to serve up their mandatory ballot on Election Day. Barriers to informed voters such as corporate MSM which is equivalent to protecting the troops with Nerf body armor and crystal meth need to be removed so that any potential voter or recruit knows the score.

The draft should not be a distraction from the issues that make the draft just another ominous threat on the lives of the misinformed young already under direct assault via predations on their education, economic opportunities, environment and national debt legacy. How many assaults are needed before they take things "seriously"? Likewise their parents.

[Fire Walk With Me]

51. If you buy petroleum-based products and pay taxes, you are a pawn.

You are giving them money. Good on you for resisting as widely as you can, but if you are a part of the economic system, you are buying their product.

[Briarius]

52. AMEN!

I said the same things the last time this came up. You want to make a point, fine. But don't gamble with my and my buddies lives to make your point.

[LWolf]

53. I will stand with you.

I am 46 years old and a grandmother. My sons are in their 20s; I will stand between them and a draft as long as I hold breath. I will stand for you, and for every other young person out there, as well. My sons, my grandson, my students, and all the young people whose lives and liberties are threatened by a draft--I will stand for them.

There is really nothing to match awakened maternal anger. I, for one, will not forget that some Democrats think it's ok to play with the lives and futures of our young people in order to make a political point. I will not forget the Democratic voting population that supports that action, either.

[JVS]

55. Right on. No draft!.

[ComerPerro]

58. and there are a lot of so-called liberals here who will call you a coward

stunning, isn't it?

[robertpaulsen]

60. Only a Pawn in Their Game

A bullet from the back of a bush took Medgar Evers' blood.
A finger fired the trigger to his name.
A handle hid out in the dark
A hand set the spark
Two eyes took the aim
Behind a man's brain
But he can't be blamed
He's only a pawn in their game.

A South politician preaches to the poor white man,
"You got more than the blacks, don't complain.
You're better than them, you been born with white skin," they explain.
And the Negro's name
Is used it is plain
For the politician's gain
As he rises to fame
And the poor white remains
On the caboose of the train
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid,
And the marshals and cops get the same,
But the poor white man's used in the hands of them all like a tool.
He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

From the poverty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks,
And the hoof beats pound in his brain.
And he's taught how to walk in a pack
Shoot in the back
With his fist in a clinch
To hang and to lynch
To hide 'neath the hood
To kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain
He ain't got no name
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game.

Today, Medgar Evers was buried from the bullet he caught.
They lowered him down as a king.
But when the shadowy sun sets on the one
That fired the gun
He'll see by his grave
On the stone that remains
Carved next to his name
His epitaph plain:
Only a pawn in their game.



I hope you don't consider this a distraction from the subject matter of your OP, but your words reminded me of this Bob Dylan song. My point in quoting this is to commend you for your intelligence in acknowledging that you have the power to make a choice, to not just follow orders. I question anyone who supports this call for a draft with the belief that it could never happen again here, that their words could not be twisted by the powers that be to justify INVOLUNTARY FUCKING SERVITUDE!

Yes, if there was a draft for Iraq, Iran or wherever, there would be protests on the street on the magnitude of what occurred during the Vietnam War. Has everyone forgotten that the power of those protests which helped bring an end to that insanity to 10 YEARS? The powers that be have already repeated too many mistakes from that time in this current war, bringing back the draft would just be another one. Edward, your fate and the fate of my two younger siblings would be worse than those of draft age during Vietnam; Canada is no longer an option. So I support your opposition to this insane proposal.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

61. I'm with you. Now that Democrats will control House/Senate, I think the Rangel proposal is

terribly misguided and irresponsible. I disagreed with it in any situation, but at least it made a kind of perverse passive/aggressive sense when Democrats had no power and no ability to introduce legislation. All that COULD be done was to spark debate by putting forth measures like this, which would fail in any case.

True opposition to the war in Iraq, and representing the national sentiment, would involve defunding the war which the Democratic part now has the power to do.

Real action can be taken and it is not, in my opinion, the time for "gestures" like this.

[Zhade]

63. Agreed. I won't do it, either.

It's easy for those past draft age to bitch and moan about how "selfish" we are - as if not wanting to be forced to kill innocent civilians in a war based on lies is selfish.

Honestly, some of these people seem to be using the return of a draft as a way to excuse THEIR OWN lack of doing more.

We are not pawns. Unfortunately, those who joined the military are. I don't think they should have to fight while we don't - I think NONE of us should fight this bullshit war.

Cut the war funding, get the UN and other nations to take over, bring our soldiers home.

Then investigate, impeach, indict, and imprison the criminals who murdered so many.

I stand with you.

[DemBones DemBones]

65. In this life, we're all pawns. nt

[Samantha]

66. I support your position 1000% -- hell no, don't go

This was the position I took for draftees during the Vietnam war. My then-husband was in the lottery and only escaped because Nixon canceled the drawing the last two months that year. I had mentioned I was willing to move to Canada or do whatever it took to avoid his being drafted. His best friend went; he did not because he escaped by a hair.

You are exactly right, and your position is the same as mine was during the Vietnam war. My position has not changed during this pre-emptive attack on Iraq. I opposed this war from the start; I will not vote for anyone who gave Bush* the authority to implement this attack and I encourage people like you to be free-thinkers and determine your own destiny in times of conflict as opposed to supporting those in government who could not see their way clear to serving themselves (or sending their children to do so).

Hell no, don't go.

[canetoad]

67. Here's an excercise to try Edward

pick a time frame, or a number of posts and try not to say the words I, Me or My.

When you can couch your opinions in terms of 'we', 'the world', 'humanity' your words will carry much more weight.

[Bucky]

68. Despite all your rage, you are still just a rat in a cage

We're all pawns, Ed. You are just one of the smart ones.