Everyone going beserk over Rangel's draft bill: this is how he wants you to react

[Greeby]

The whole point of bringing up this draft bill is to get the American people sufficiently scared and outraged that they will demand the war be ended.

I wasn't at DU two years ago when Rangel brought this bill to a vote before. Was everyone going as nuts as they are now back then?

Here, watch this outstanding video of Tim Ryan (D-OH) opposing the bill in 2004. It's worth noting that at age 33, he would technically be eligible to be drafted (although I somehow doubt anyone would draft a Congressman)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYQooWCxmLY

[EdwardM]

1. I don't think so.

I have been against the war before this happened, and I still am. This issue has not changed my position. All this will do is give another right wing talking point "Democrats want to restart the draft." Mr Rangel is playing right into their hands.

[Atman]

5. I disagree. To a point.

This is actually a good thing for democrats, because first of all, most talking heads are already pointing out that the draft bill doesn't stand a chance in hell of being passed. It's purpose is to do exactly what it is doing...stoking fear into parents of red voting persuasion as well as the blues. To start the dialog. To point out the hypocrisy, and the folly of waging a war without sufficient manpower. Rangel isn't a piker. He's knows what he's doing.

My far greater fear is how this has suddenly all turned MORE Viet Nam-like, when We The People just voted for LESS. Suddenly, all the talk is about ESCALATING and EXTENDING the war, just the opposite of what we voted for. And THAT is what will be pinned on the democrats, and rightly so if we allow BushCo to pull this shit on us.

.

[trof]

17. Left wing talking point "Republicans aren't patriotic.

They don't want to serve their country in the great war against terrorism."

[cali]

2. Absolutely right.

With all the hysterical bullshit going on about Rangel at DU, I'm seriously beginning to question the collective political knowledge here.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Beginning? lol!

[acmejack]

10. Indeed. It is almost an annual event for Rangel.

People wont even take a breath and allow anyone to explain the intent of the Congressman. No, it is easier to declare Charlie an "Idiot".

[Missy M]

18. I don't understand people on DU not getting the reason...

Rangel is proposing reinstating the draft. It should have been done when Bush started his war. We would be seeing quite a different reaction from the American people regarding Iraq. I would love to see the protests that would be going on right now.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

21. It occurs to me...

...that a lot of people don't understand that lawmakers will sometimes put forward measures that they themselves do not support, in order to prove a point or get the opposition on record as opposing the measure.

One wonders how the clicken littles would react to Swift's "A Modest Proposal."

[cali]

26. No kidding.

I don't know why I'm so surprised by the hysteria and lack of knowledge here, but I am.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

29. LOL, holy cow, "A Modest Proposal" would cause some sort of cascade

effect...:rofl: MKJ

[seabeyond]

3. this is the silliness. he did it in the past. he is doing it for a reason

it isnt going to pass

[Viva_La_Revolution]

13. some of us recognize that...

the ones who are freaking out about it are wasting energy.

[seabeyond]

19. yup n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

6. Two years ago, it was barely a ripple, with most of us understanding exactly the

basis for his proposal.

I think some lurkers are using this as a wedge issue, what with all the hysteria. MKJ

[BlueManDude]

8. The Dems had no power 2 years ago. He needs to think before he speaks.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

9. He's had this on the table since Jan. 03. Here are his own words:

"Despite the evidence to the contrary, it is just too easy for the President to give assurances that our military would be available and ready to carry out regime change, wherever and whenever he and his advisors want to, whether in Iraq, Iran, Syria or North Korea," Congressman Rangel said.

"The President said in his State of the Union address that war was an option that remained on the table in dealing with these countries. In my view, the war option would not be on the table if the people being placed in harm's way were children of White House officials, members of Congress or CEOs in the boardrooms. As other people's children endure a grinding war, they have been given huge tax cuts, while our veterans have gotten cuts in health benefits," Congressman Rangel said.

MKJ

[BlueManDude]

15. The country is already against the war

this is a pointless distractiopn and adds to the "amateur hour" perception of Pelosi's leadership. Yeah we get the point about how a draft would have made the war extremely unpopular 3 years ago - but's it's not 3 years ago.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

24. The country's been against the war for at least the last 18 months to two years, and we're still

there.

Anyway, BMD, judging from your posts, you are ready to throw in the towel and give up on everything Democratic because of Rangel's proposal.

Good luck with whatever direction your life takes you. MKJ

[BlueManDude]

7. Wrong. Rangel needs to stop saying the first thing that pops into his head

in front of a tv camera. Americans are already pissed off about the war.

There is no grand stategy here (he ain't that smart bud) just a windbag who is invited on tv shows because producers know he can be relied on to say something stupid. It's Ok when you have no power but now he needs to STFU.

[Atman]

12. You're completely wrong

Rangel isn't saying anything "off the top of his head." He's been working this angle for years, and it is a very well-honed, valid discussion point. And he IS that smart.

.

[BlueManDude]

20. He's re-fighting a battle that he's already won

his initial point was that we wouldn't be marauding all thru Iraq if there was a draft - he was right. We get the point and he made it well - but we are beyond that now. The war is unpopular - we are leaving (and pretty damn soon) whether Lieberman or McCain realize it yet.

He no longer has the luxury of being an amusing sideshow making a grandstand play. He needs to adjust his stategy and his language to the new reality of his own power and the changed political landscape.

[Atman]

22. We are leaving "pretty damned soon?" Really? Before or after the escalation?

You're paying too much attention to your perception of Rangle, and not to what the actual generals and the administration are doing. For real.

.

[caledesi]

34. Agree. I remember seeing him on Tweety at least a year ago and

he was working this angle. He is very smart. I "get it."

[demgurl]

11. I have always been against the draft....

and always will be. A Democracy does not mean forcing people to serve in a war that you want. A Democracy is letting people's beliefs guide them and serve if they think the cause is a worthy one.

I have protested this war over and over. I now have a nephew who is about draft age. This whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. Even with people getting off their rumps and protesting, the * cabal has made it quite clear they will not be ending this illegal occupation. A draft would set it up that people who never volunteered or supported the war will get killed versus people who have voluntarily signed up for service. How many people must die before this whole thing stops? What if somehow this all backfires and many more of our kids are killed? I will not support the death of even one more of our people. (I also do not support the death of any of the Iraqi people)

You want outrage? You want to bring light to how bad it is over there and how everyone has to come home? I say we do surveys over there and find out how many hours a day the Iraqi people have water and electricity. Then I suggest we put forth a bill that until the illegal occupation of Iraq is over, that is how much water and electricity we get a day. Watch how quickly the 'we never tell good stories about Iraq' people go away. Watch how quickly people will finally call government officials and demand things be changed.

I would not expect such a bill to be passed but this would really shake up people as everyone would be effected by these outages. People would demand for us to get the hell out and let the Iraqi people start rebuilding everything so they may have an easier life. I think it would get a ton of press coverage and it would shake people out of their stupor.

All of that being said, I am originally from Canada and I have already made arrangements, with relatives, so my nephew and others I know can find safe passage and avoid any draft that might happen. My family will not be going to Iraq.

[acmejack]

16. Like the benefits but disavow the responsibilities?

National Service does not equate to MILITARY SERVICE There is a difference, I support NATIONAL SERVICE, I do not support MILITARY SERVICE except in a time of NATIONAL EMERGENCY! NATIONAL SERVICE could be Americorps, Peace Corps, working in hospitals, etc. No one should be forced to participate in a war or serve in the Military against their will.

But why is NATIONAL SERVICE such a bad thing? Why shouldn't a citizen give his or her Country two years? It would make both the Country an the individual stronger. Sweeten the pot with free higher education.

[demgurl]

31. I believe most any problem can be solved without violence.

I am a peaceful person and have become even more so in the last few years of my spiritual journey. (which has nothing to do with God) I used to believe spanking was OK but I do not even do that any more. My eyes have been opened to the web that ties together every single human on this planet. Every action, good or bad, is a pebble that has a ripple effect on many others.

I believe in karma. I believe in getting things right the first time because you may not have a second time to do so. I believe in forgiveness since anger holds you prisoner and has no effect on the person you are harboring anger against.

I may get all of the benefits but even though I was raised in Canada, I was born in a US territory with a father who was a US citizen. I have always held dual citizenship and became a US citizen when I was of age to move down here. Yes, I take advantage of the benefits but I am a natural born citizen and a peaceful one at that. I give back to the community. I donate to the food bank, I give my time (about 20 hours a week) to a school. I have even raised money to help the Katrina victims.

I am not sure when you mentioned I like the benefits if you thought perhaps a natural born citizen should just move to another country if they do not like the possibility of a draft.

If you want to make individuals stronger than do so through bills passed by the government. If a person is willing to get an education and spend at least five years using that education in needy parts of the US and/or the world, wipe their loan clean.

Perhaps charitable (Peace Corps etc...) national service would be a way to go and it might teach some folks values. I think that is partially what is missing these days. But when we talk about the draft we are not talking about that. We are talking about military service and killing people with the distinct possibility of being killed yourself. We are talking blood and the killing of innocent civilians. (including children) There is nothing to be proud of in those actions.

Until we all get our interconnectivity, we are doomed to continue down the path we are currently taking. That interconnectivity includes wiping out the creatures of this earth and possibly causing humans to go the way of the Woolly Mammoth.

[acmejack]

32. Great post, my friend.

Especially in light of my attempted snark. I am opposed to killing as well & I am a veteran-imagine that! I do believe that National service is a good thing exactly for the reasons you stated. The one huge positive about the military was the "melting pot"-the exposure to all the people from everywhere else, it truly is a vast Country with a lot of people. We get a little insular in East Jesus, Tennessee and don't realize what our neighbors in other places have to offer.

Plus I think it is the only way we can save our infra-structure. Just like in the thirties. I think some seriously hard economic times are coming. People will be joining of their own voilition then of course.

[demgurl]

35. Thank you, acmejack.

And thank you for your service for our country.

We are all in this together and that includes Republicans as well as Democrats - and that is true whether we like it or not. There mustbe open discussion if we are to make the best of a bad situation.

Peace!

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

23. That is an offensive post. I hope you self delete. n/t

MKJ

[Lilith Velkor]

25. I will not. Cope. n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

30. OK, it just makes me wonder how long you've waited for the opportunity to say this about

Congressman Rangel.

You finally had the chance to let your real feelings out. MKJ

[cali]

27. Charming.

Great combination of stupid and ugly you have going on in said post. Charlie Rangel is an ally, you birdbrain. He knows what he's doing. I'm not even gonna bother explaining it to someone who doesn't have the facillity to grasp it.

[mmonk]

28. Yep. I said this from the start.

The best way to get people's attention to the facts surrounding this war and get them to oppose it is a draft.

[caledesi]

33. I just posted almost the same thing on another thread. I was

around during his last push for draft and even ol' Charlie DIDN'T vote for it. Buh, bye Karl Rove, hello Charlie Rangel.