Defending KKKramer: Dave McGurgan says impossible to conclude Richards is a racist!

[NorthernSpy]

:eyes:

How much do you want to bet Jesse Jackson gets involved or even worse - sicks his posse on Richards over this?

Unfortunately Richards has already lost the battle.

Which is a shame because it's impossible to logically draw the conclusion that he's a racist from the incomplete and edited piece of tape that only runs two-and-a-half minutes.

Sure, he says "nigger" an awful lot, but without the entire context of the show, we don't know what factors led up to Richards' tirade against the heckler.

Was he responding to racist comments initiated by the heckler?

In Richards' defense, there are those hecklers (often under the influence of alcohol) who repeatedly interrupt performers, ruin the show for everyone and royally piss off the comedian. I've seen it happen more than once.

To brand Richards a racist based on this clip or the chatter flying around on the Internet and cable news channels would be stupid, naive and uninformed.

But then again, that would be America and its overly politically correct culture in action.

http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/83-11202006-744776.html


McGurgan misses the point. Richards didn't just lose his temper and call a guy a nigger. He made an approving reference to lynching:

Richards retorted: "Shut up! Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a fork up your (expletive)."

That's like cheering on al Qaeda because you're angry with a couple of Americans.


The heck of it is, The Laugh Factory apparently had Richards back for another show the very next night. In contrast, Mel Gibson hasn't worked since his own little outbust. Suboptimal choice of hate target on ole Mel's part, perhaps.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15816126/

[helderheid]

1. You won't see me at the "Laugh Factory". Ever.

[jgraz]

5. Not sure I agree with you on this

Richards will hopefully have to live with the ugly shit he spewed for the rest of his life. But a comedy club just cannot fire someone for what they say during their act. This goes beyond the first amendment: firing Richards would gone against the entire history and core values of standup comedy, no matter how offensive his speech was.

I don't know what their motivation was, but they did the right thing by letting him on stage the next night.

[roguevalley]

23. How is this different from Mel Gibson? He spewed hatred. They

both did. Excusing one and vilifying the other makes for hypocracy. I will never watch him again. He's on the same short list as Mel.

[jgraz]

26. Not excusing it one bit -- he's an asshole

Just pointing out that if you have a profession that's based on pushing the boundaries of free speech, you can't fire someone just because you don't like what he said. The comedy club had to put him on the next night -- doing anything else would be spitting on the graves of comedians like Lenny Bruce and Richard Pryor.

On the other hand, they could just fire him because he wasn't funny. Works for me.

[Garbo 2004]

51. The club says they had him back on Saturday cause he said he would apologize. But he didn't.

Now he's banned from the club. From article:

The Laugh Factory held a press conference earlier Monday, with resident comic and acting club spokesman Paul Rodriguez saying that Richards, 57, would be permanently banned from the Hollywood landmark. He explained that the actor-comedian had returned to perform at the club on Saturday night only because he had indicated he wanted to apologize for his remarks, but that he never did.
http://www.eonline.com/news/article/index.jsp?uuid=e2ff71f3-0e8a-4490-ba13-3b0b3c931990

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[roguevalley]

33. for those of us who grew up during Jim Crow and watched this shit

as the daily behavior of way too many of us, nothing about this is excusable when you remember that this asshat was old enough to know about segregation, Jim Crow and blatant racism. He's a complete asshat.

[uppityperson]

42. depends on his contract.

His contract would say how and for what he could be fired. They could have had him take a night or 2 off most likely though.

[hsher]

10. Comedy Store's better

Catch the best up and coming guys in the Belly Room there, up back. If we're talking the one on Sunset.

[devilgrrl]

17. The Improv is the best of the three...

top quality comedy always.

[hsher]

18. That's true

I have NEVER been disappointed. Only thing is the drink price is kind of high. :(
Oh well. Support good comedy!

[BlooInBloo]

2. lolol! I have to revamp my "catch phrase" for talking about racism-denial! Dammit!

:rofl:

I typically say something like: for white folks, it's not racism if they didn't say "nigger" - anything else and white folks invariably plead for the "benefit of the doubt", commonly making some sort of veiled accusation of oversensitive negroes.

Now it's not racism EVEN IF they say "nigger" - over and over and over! :rofl:

Ya gotta love it.

[Ellis Wyatt]

4. It's not racist

IF THEY DESERVED IT!

[BlooInBloo]

6. whoa. hardcore.

[Ellis Wyatt]

7. whoa, damage control

do I actually need the "sarcasm" tags, here?

I hope you actually didn't think I was saying they deserved it. I was adding on to your previous post.

[BlooInBloo]

8. Gotcha - cool - I was more focussed on the 162 posts I guess...

It's all good.

[jgraz]

28. Yes, sadly you do need the sarcasm tags -- always

We DU-ers aren't big on subtlety.

[American liberal]

47. nope. The medium is not compatible with subtlety. Use the sarcasm icon next time...

[Lurking Dem]

34. Well call me a KIKE

and pass the bagels! (Do I need a tag?)

[American liberal]

46. Who the heck let YOU out?! Time to get back in your box. Your 5 minutes is up...

[Montauk6]

13. I'm laughing too Bloo!

I've yet to hear of any grandscale Marches on Washington planned or any fiery protests, and already there's a spin machine in place setting up reinforcements.

BTW, "political correctness" is such horse crap anyway. Nothing but a cheap (though very effective ploy) to basically say, "How DARE you be offended! You're OPPRESSING ME with your sensitivity!!!"

Another thing, I wasn't even aware that Richards was a STANDUP comic. I mean, yeah, he's done hilarious ensemble work on "Fridays" (remember that show, kiddies?) and he's funny as a comedic actor. But it would be like, Jane Curtin at Yuk-Yuk's; I just can't see it.

[bliss_eternal]

45. Yes, the "too sensitive" police wear on the nerves...

don't they? :hi:

[valerief]

3. Guess we know who's gonna host Fox's new "Daily Show." And

I thought it would be Coultergeist.

[hsher]

9. LOL I noticed that too

I recommended Richards for the FOX show, too on another thread. I also fumed about the show here:

[KamaAina]

29. I would've thought Dennis Miller, myself.

:puke:

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NorthernSpy]

15. "Shut up! Fifty years ago, we'd have made you into a lampshade!"

"You can talk. You can talk. You're brave now. Throw his kike ass out! He's a fucking Jew!"

"That's what you get for interrupting an Aryan man."

"They're going to arrest me for calling a Jew a kike!"


Now does it sound like an "approving reference"?

Hey -- I merely recited what Richards himself said, only with references to Jews, rather than to blacks.


Seems a bunch of you are closet-racists! Clean up your own house before gossiping about someone else's!
No closets for you, huh?

[zreosumgame]

31. not if delivered like he did

NOT pointing out a single person, but showing an attitude that DID exist and in some places still does. Denying it does not get rid of it. facing it can, but you have to have the guts to. What some of you do not seem to get is he was not up in anyone's face, he was performing. So next if some guy plays Hitler in a movie you will call for him to be tried for war crimes? :spray:

[salin]

12. ya, cuz there is nothin racist about alluding to lynchings...

:eyes:

[Beelzebud]

14. "This is what happens when you talk over a white man!"

That sounds racist to me...

[boolean]

16. Dammit is there video?!?!

I so want to see this. Tell me someone has a video somewhere.

EDIT: Never mind. I got it to work....

[ComerPerro]

19. there are a lot of DUers who would wholeheartedly agree with this

[zreosumgame]

32. yes, some of us know the difference between fantasy & reality

and reality scares a lot of folks.

[T Town Jake]

56. Name one.

...C'mon: put your money where that slandering mouth is and name just one.

Or is probing for actual real-deal evidence of such from the likes of you just too much to ask?

[Ravy]

20. Mel Gibson has a movie coming out soon. How is that "not working"?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

41. I think he's spending his own money to distribute it

I'm pretty sure the studio has deep-sixed any promotion they had for it other than what they are contractually obligated to do.

[Ravy]

52. Dunno, I have seen a lot of advertisement for it, at the movies and on TV.

I am sure that there will be lots of people that will not go see it because of his tirade. I just found the statement curious that claimed Gibson hasn't worked since to be dubious, and therefore, the conclusion drawn from it was suspicious as well.

[bloom]

21. "overly politically correct" = excuse for racism

It's so obvious that the "overly politically correct" objection is meant to excuse sexism and racism. I don't get it that that continues to be an argument here.

It's a stupid right-wing argument and people need to get a clue.


___________

That is sad the Laugh Factory would have had him right back. They must not get it either.


I hope our society is politically correct enough that it does not tolerate such crap from it's performers. But that is the kind of thing that has to be a group effort. If there are enough racists to support it and people don't object enough - overt racism will go on like it's "normal". :grr:

[bliss_eternal]

43. When do we get permission to label our issues, ourselves?

I see it after women here are told we/they don't know how to recognize sexism. I see it when the glbt community is angry and people tell them they don't know what homophobia looks like. I saw it after the Mel Gibson incident and some used it to pull out ugly comments about Jew bankers, etc...and again, members of the Jewish community were told they didn't have a clue what anti-semitism is. I saw us lose some latino members that just couldn't take anymore of the immigrant bashing, one in particular who tired of being told he had no idea what racism looked like.

When exactly does DU, democracy and progressives start to ask us what we want and need and stop telling us what are needs are? Frankly, I'm baffled. :crazy:

[jbnow]

49. You might know by now that the Laugh Factory

says he told them he wanted to go on to apologize the next night, but then did not apologize once he got on stage...so now they let him go.

Don't know if that was it or if it is all the publicity around it.

Can't believe some are saying the rant was part of his act. He just really lost it, he let hecklers get to him and he went way overboard. That wasn't part of his act, he lost his temper and reacted in a super racist way.

As part of an act someone of any color might use the word nigger or spic or dago or chink and it might be edgy or offensive to some but it can be part of their act, humor. This wasn't that, this was an angry attack.

So ugly. Kramer, kramer...can't even watch that character the same way.

[Bluebear]

53. 'can't even watch that character the same way.'

me neither

[roguevalley]

22. I heard Rod Serling (Twilight Zone) speak during a homecoming

week event at my college a long time ago. He said and I've never forgotten: "You cannot say nigger and be a moral man."

[NorthernSpy]

24. I LOVE Rod Serling!

:loveya:

I gotta say, tho: maybe it's because I grew up working class in northern New England, but the Archie Bunker-type stuff doesn't strike me as being nearly as dangerous as the smiling racism of the upperclasses. True horrors like eugenics were promoted by right-thinking, well-spoken "persons of quality" -- not by the hardhat who mutters a slur upon getting cut off in traffic, or when someone else eats the last doughnut at work.


The thing that KKKramer said about lynching, now... That's pretty serious.

[roguevalley]

27. You would have loved to hear him. He was wonderful. He's also

about five feet tall. :)

[BlueStorm]

36. Ok maybe I am a bit slow tonight

I have seen the video and I don't know what part in it he refers to lynching. Like I said I am slow tonight I haven't had adequate sleep the night before.

Blue

[FVZA_Colonel]

38. It's when he talks about how fifty years ago they would have been hung from a tree

for what they did. Disgusting, isn't it?

[BlueStorm]

40. Yes it is...It is disgusting

I am interested in slavery and African American history. I like to be educated about that horrible past and it keeps me open minded. I am familiar with lynchings.

I don't know what would cause Richards, even with the heckling to go off like that and spout racist sentiments. Perhaps it was a subconscious dam that broke.

My dad and his friends will tell jokes, however subtely, that I find to be racist, misogynist, what have you. Sorta like the "Dave Letterman's 'Top Ten Reasons Why There Are No Black NASCAR Drivers'" e-mail that he got from a coworker last spring. I found it offensive and even told him so. His response was to laugh and say "a joke is a joke."

Either way it is disgusting. I try not to get myself involve with that kind of comedic humor but I am sure that I have done it in the past.

Blue

[Beelzebud]

25. I conclude that McGurgan is a racist trying poorly to cover for a fellow racist!

[survivor999]

35. If Richards comes to NYC or Boston I'll definitely buy

a ticket to go see him live. Or when I visit LA. He's usually very funny. Don't care about this BS.

[BlooInBloo]

37. We know you dont; we know.

[Mr_Spock]

39. Wow

Nah, I'm not surprised actually.

[uppityperson]

44. really? It would be interesting to talk with you in another 20 yrs.

see how you feel with some adult life under your belt.

[Bluebear]

48. It will have to be a lot more interesting than now!

:hi:

[uppityperson]

54. awwww

[entanglement]

50. Doesn't take long for your kind to crawl out of the woodwork, does it?

n/t

[flying_monkeys]

55. "This BS"?

Lemme think..... Hmm....


Okay, let's say you are believing the "he has anger management issues and is not a racist" angle - - Tell me, if you got really mad, would you start hurling racial epithets (sp)? If you get mad at your spouse, do you go for the gender-related vitriol? Do you have to dig deep to get to any of those types of words (if at all) or are they there, at the ready, waiting to be hurled at someone's feet?


See, you could get me twenty times till tuesday pissed, and those words just *wouldn't* occur to me to use because they are not part of my vernacular.... You may think Richard's did something that is just BS in your opinion, but in actuality it exposed a host of inner residual bigotry....