30 students to be tested after teacher allows them to share needle-like devices to prick themselves

[Kadie]

30 students to be tested after sharing lancets
Diana Walsh, Chronicle Staff Writer

Monday, November 20, 2006 03 16 PM


(11-20) 15:16 PST REDWOOD CITY -- As many as 30 seventh-graders at a Redwood City middle school will be tested for Hepatitis and HIV after their substitute science teacher allowed the students to share needle-like devices to prick themselves for blood.

The substitute teacher, who has been fired as a result of the incident, was giving a life-science lesson to five classes Thursday when he asked for volunteers to have their blood drawn using lancets -- which are similar to the small tools that diabetics use to test their blood.

Rather than giving each volunteer a new lancet to draw individual blood samples, the teacher, whose name was not released, permitted students to share them, according to Jan Christensen, superintendent of the Redwood City School District.

"Each student should have had their own one,'' Christensen said today. "I'm shocked and stunned that anyone would have thought this was appropriate protocol.''

more...
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/20/BAGEHMGMN618.DTL


:wow:

[Poll_Blind]

1. Shocked and stunned is right. I have no idea....NO IDEA...how a...

...teacher (substitute or otherwise) would NOT know about the importance preventing blood-borne illness from spreading.

PB

[bluestateguy]

2. Oooh, he's been fired!!

I was thinking more along the lines of prison for this dodo brain.

[William769]

3. Makes you wonder how this person got a Certificate to be a sub.

[BlooInBloo]

5. Take a look sometime at the average GRE scores for Education majors...

... Just one indicator among many, but nonetheless a clear example of the fact that education-people aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer - one of 3 or 4 main problems with the American educational system, imo.

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Hello!!

Certified teacher here. 27 years. Masters degree. When did you get your education degree?

You certainly don't appear to be a very sharp knife yourself. You must not realize how many teachers are DUers. :eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

12. Congrats to you. No education degree here - sorry.

I fail to see what the number of DU-teachers has to do with things like:

http://www.ncsu.edu/chass/philo/GRE%20Scores%20by%20Intended%20Graduate%20Major.htm

(The first example I could find within my 10-seconds-of-interest window)

But if you think the number of DU-teachers is relevant to the aggregate level of intellectual horsepower of Ed. majors, rock on with your bad self.

Congratulations again on your Masters degree. In education.

[dsc]

20. I realize this doesn't speak to averages

but I got a 680 verbal, and 800 in both the analytical and math sections of the GRE. Not a bad score if I say so myself. Incidentally to be a sub one usually doesn't have to have a teaching degree.

[BlooInBloo]

29. Good job on the math/analytical at least. You're right - that says exactly 0 about averages....

I never said one *has to* have an Ed. degree. Do you believe it's false that the vast majority *do*?

[Dorian Gray]

66. The vast majority of SUBSTITUTES?

Hell, in New Jersey, all you need is two years worth of college level credits to sub.

So, yeah, most substitutes are not full time teachers for a reason.

[BlooInBloo]

73. Ah. Even worse than an education major - gotcha - thanks!

[dsc]

89. Yeah I do

Aside from retired teachers, no subs down here do. Those with degrees get teaching jobs. In the midwest you have a large number of education degree holding subs because there is a glut of teachers. In the south and west, where this story came from, you don't because you have a severe shortage of teachers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. Perhaps I wasn't direct enough

Your post was offensive to teachers. Blaming us for the decline in ACT scores is ignorant.

Talk about timing! I just now watched an item on my local news about lavish spending in my school district by administrators. $8600 for a retirement dinner. $63,000 for catering. $3500 for bottled water in the administration building. $525 for an air freshener from Sharper Image.

Last week at the school board meeting, the superintendent asked for $3.5 million for new academic programs. He also told the board the district does not have $1.4 million for the before and after school program so it will be discontinued at 15 schools. 200 people will lose their jobs.

And at my school, we collect used printer cartridges to trade in for reams of copy paper at Office Max. We have no fat kindergarten pencils. I took the last ream of primary paper out of the storage closet today.

Teachers are the only sane adults in the education business. Instead of criticizing US you should be doing your homework. We are merely the worker bees in a complicated industry made up of dysfunctional bureaucracies.

We are also the only adults who put the kids first.

[BlooInBloo]

80. I would thank you for proving my point, but I would've preferred to have been wrong.

Or, to dumb it down: You're the only one talking about ACT scores.

[proud2BlibKansan]

102. ACT, GRE

not a lot of difference. Both standardized achievement tests.

[NancyG]

10. Your attitude made me quit teaching.

I had a masters in teaching at the age of 21, teaching mathematics thru calculus, and got sick and tired of this stereotype. And that was in the '70s. Sad that this attitude is still out there, and amongst liberals makes it even more dispiriting.

[BlooInBloo]

13. ROFLMAO!!! "teaching mathematics thru calculus" - please... stop....

... um, math doesn't BEGIN until calculus. The rest would be better termed "pre-math". It's only because Americans are so woefully undereducated that times tables count as *mathematics*. As if phonics were literature - ROFL - phew - that's a good one.

The low standards of Americans.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlooInBloo]

15. I appreciate how, from your perspective, it appears that's what I'm doing. Nevertheless...

... the fact remains that my remarks, and goals, are quite obviously in the opposite direction. Indeed, it would be better to say that it is people like *you* who are actively, if unintentionally, working to keep Americans stupid.

EDIT: Or, to dumb it down a bit: garbage in, garbage out.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. It doesn't take a genius to understand calculus.

However, you'd have to have fallen off the turnip truck to think that equates to teaching math.

[BlooInBloo]

25. Not before you did though! lol! I never made any such "equation"...

... I said, and clearly, that calculus was the *beginning* of math.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[boolean]

18. You got that right

In Europe and Asia, children learn basic algebra in grade 2 or 3. I first learned about it in grade 9. It's fucking pathetic. I'm talking BASIC algebra. "Solve for x" bullshit.

[dsc]

23. Can you name a single, solitary country

in which calculus is routinely offered in 9th or 10th grade? By routinely I mean to the majority of the citizens in that age range.

[kiahzero]

24. I guess discrete math isn't math?

Statistics isn't math?

Before Newton, math didn't exist at all?

[BlooInBloo]

26. Please, people, just stop - LMAO!!! It isn't possible to learn statistics sans calculus....

You really have no idea what statistics (or probability theory) *is*, do you?

Too easy of a target - will pass.

[kiahzero]

30. I had crappy statistics teachers, admittedly

But neither class (MATH201, Intro to Statistics and POSC380, Statistics for Poli. Sci) required any calculus as a prerequisite, and neither class taught anything I considered to be "calculus." Now, when you get up to MATH350, Probability Theory and Simulation, you need to have taken Calculus 3 as a corequisite, so maybe that's what you're talking about.

That still doesn't even address my other two questions - does discrete math not qualify as "math" to you? Did "math" not exist until Newton?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kiahzero]

34. I did well enough in Calculus and Discrete Math to puzzle out whatever your reply is

Let's see it.

[BlooInBloo]

40. lol - put it this way...

If the question is: Did mathematics exist as a substantial field before calculus was invented/discovered, and the only choices for answers are straight "yes" and "no", then "no" has an easier time arguing. Probably Euclid's-5th-postulate studies would be the core of one of the "yes" side's best plays available.

There's obviously no question of me writing an impromptu 50 page article about it here and now. Friedman's "Kant and the Sciences" (or something like that - haven't read it for a long time) might do some of the work to be done, per my manifesto. And Kuhn, of course - duh (smacks forehead).

Moreover, physics and philosophy also didn't get started as substantial fields until Newton. One almost feels bad for Descartes - first to market, but 2nd to market was Newton, who put as big an intellectual smackdown on him as has ever been done in history - lol!

[kiahzero]

41. So you're going to make crazy assertions and not argue for them?

"LOL" indeed.

[BlooInBloo]

44. (shrug) Without an educated audience? Not. The amount of extra work...

... I'd have to do makes that not a practical option - you people think that probability/statistics is calculus-free for christsakes.

I did give a few sources that contain non-trivial pieces of the long-ish essay you're criticizing me for refusing to write on the spot.

[kiahzero]

47. Who said anything about it being "calculus free?"

I said that knowledge of calculus wasn't required to learn other things that would rightly be considered "mathematics," and therefore it's wrong to say that math education does not begin in this country until college.

[BlooInBloo]

54. It isn't possible to learn statistics without knowing calculus -- however you phrase it.

And no - it really has to be kept in mind that the people making the names of the categories ("math education", for example) - are neither bright nor well-educated on average. What the uneducated think mathematics is needs bear but only the flimsiest resemblance to what mathematics really is. And mathematics really begins only with calculus in terms of American chronological education. All the prior stuff would, at best, be better termed "pre-mathematics". It's required in order to do real math, but not in itself math.

lol - and to think that I actually think I'm being *conservative* in my estimation of when math begins. In full intellectual honesty, I would be inclined to say that math doesn't truly begin until one's dissertation work. Until then, it's basically just learning the *rules*. The dissertation is the traditional place where the *art* begins/dominates - at least in theory (allusion to the publishing of trivialities). But I know that idea would never fly in a place like this. I was trying to *get along* by backing up to calculus - LOLOL!

It should be noted that the paragraph above contains the germ the most important idea of the long-ish essay I haven't written - to delineate mathematics by factual content, or artistic?

(I do not have a doctorate in math, in case you were curious.)

[kiahzero]

56. "Everyone but me uses the words wrong!" (n/t)

[BlooInBloo]

59. lol! Good one! Not actually applicable (yet), but very good nevertheless!

[Hosnon]

62. It seems to me you are playing the definitional game. "Higher" mathematics

is required by probably less than 1% of the United States population (I can play that game too).

There's no problem with the upper end of a field having its own perspective but it does show a lack of breadth in understanding to continuously re-label the field as it advances and then ridicule those outside of the field with no need to have knowledge of math beyond calculus for failing to keep up with the changing vernacular.

A string-theorist may claim that nothing is physics until you reach the quantum level but that is a definitional shift that not everyone follows.

And George Bush may claim that nothing except the most extreme abuse is torture. After all, water-boarding is just pre-torture.

But since we are tossing works around, try Wittgenstein's "Lectures on the Foundations of Mathematics". You might find it interesting. It is a nice combination of mathematics, language and philosophy. I imagine that he would get quite a good "LOL" by watching you here.

And one last point: Try a little tact next time.

[BlooInBloo]

Dammit - the first jillion times I read it weren't enough? Besides PI is far superior...

... it's nice to get early statements of the rule-following "paradox", but RFM is more exploratory, by contrast to PI.


EDIT: Education-people will never acknowledge that stepping up to brighter versions of themselves is a good idea (that would put them outta business - duh), so there's nothing to be gained by tact.

And if you mean "definition game" with the connotation of intrinsially-arbitrary-but-specifically-chosen-to-make-them-look-bad, then you're just about as wrong as you could possibly be - wrong on the concept of definitions being arbitrary (see Frege, Russell, Tarski, Pryor, and Belnap, and Gupta for more, if interested). What I was proposing/using was not an *arbitrary* delineation of mathematics from "pre-math", but rather a *good* delineation - which, again, is pretty close to the opposite.

[Hosnon]

93. There is much to be gained by tact.

To begin with, it seems you have riled up more than a few people in this thread. Someone with a deeper understanding of a particular subject, such as yourself, does no service (and perhaps does harm) to higher education by acting in a condescending manner. Had you been a bit more graceful, this sub-thread may have turned out differently with you ending up convincing others that your view is, in fact, more reasonable.

A concise explanation of why you think that mathematics, as it is generally understood, is in fact not mathematics would have been more effective. This does not require a tome. Most theories can be explained quite succinctly while still getting the core ideas across.

Also, I will defer on Wittgenstein. I am quite familiar with the rule following paradox but my understanding goes no further than what can come from a mathematically tilted philosophy class (I did receive my undergraduate degree in Philosophy). I tend to stay out of pissing contests but do imagine I would enjoy further conversations (assuming the tone stays amicable and adult).

Finally, you misinterpreted my point (perhaps due to lack of clarity on my part). I do not think that definitions are always and/or completely arbitrary nor do I think that the fundamental reason you have chosen to define mathematics in a particular way is laced with malice (which would be quite odd). I did, however, mean that the shift on the "reasonable ways to define mathematics" spectrum that you make does not reduce other reasonable definitions to absurdities. Such shifts as one's understanding of a field grows are at least justified and perhaps necessary. However, language is quite diverse and tacking a qualifier onto the word "mathematics" is probably a better route than hi-jacking the word itself - especially when discussing the subject with those who do not share your definition.

At that point, yes, you are playing the definitional game and are talking past those which you are "talking" with.

Next time, I suggest being a little more renaissance in your encounters with those who may be "less" than you in merely one of many characteristics.

P.S. Ugh...I've lost this twice now due to a less than stellar internet connection. Please forgive any grammar mistakes at this point.

[dsc]

90. That is complete bs

I should know as I majored in math. One doesn't need calculus to understand statistics. It might help, given some of the symbols used in statistics, but it is far from necessary.

[uppityperson]

48. AH! we are not educated enough to be able to be of interest to you or to

follow your superior logic? So rather than simply answering straight, you prefer to laugh at we poor people and hold your superior self high above us? :eyes:

[Dorian Gray]

68. Wow, you're really ingratiating yourself to the DU population

with your condescension and your ego. Sorry there aren't enough people here to understand your aptitude for mathematics and philosophy.

[Azathoth]

92. You gotta be fucking kidding me

Did mathematics exist as a substantial field before calculus was invented/discovered, and the only choices for answers are straight "yes" and "no", then "no" has an easier time arguing.

I wish I had read this earlier...I wouldn't have taken any of your posts seriously. :rofl:

[uppityperson]

31. math doesn't begin until calculus? pshaw. Ever hear of algebra?

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/
(The first example I could find within my 10-seconds-of-interest window)

[BlooInBloo]

33. LMAO!!! Oh jeez - i'm crying with laughter here. Please....

[uppityperson]

36. all you can do is repeat you are laughing? OK.

thanks for the fine example of decent communicaton.

[BlooInBloo]

37. (shrug) He started it with the genius tactic of (a) talking about algebra, and then....

... (b) giving me a link to Wolfram. Sheer silliness.

[uppityperson]

38. which clears up nothing except you like to respond by laughing

and being snide rather than trying to actually communicate. "genius tactic" rather than saying what the problem is with algebra (which was an answer to your comment about math not beginning until calculus.

[BlooInBloo]

42. No... I like to respond to *idiocy* by laughing....

I also like to respond to falsehoods about what I said by laughing. I never said there was a problem with algebra. Well, Abel's Theorem might be construed as a problem, but I doubt that's what you meant.

:rofl:

And just by the way - what sort of thing do you think of as algebra? Just to make sure we're at least synched on that...

[uppityperson]

45. pshaw again

you say:um, math doesn't BEGIN until calculus.

I say: math doesn't begin until calculus? pshaw. Ever hear of algebra?

you say:(shrug) He started it with the genius tactic of (a) talking about algebra,

I say: genius tactic" rather than saying what the problem is with algebra

you say: I also like to respond to falsehoods about what I said by laughing. I never said there was a problem with algebra.

Now I say all you want to do is laugh, insinuate and then take offense. You are no gentleman. Or even a person who wants to communicate in an equal fashion.

[BlooInBloo]

46. It might be helpful it you would answer my question.

[uppityperson]

49. delete

end of noncivil conversation and snarking

[The Straight Story]

105. Well prove riemann's theory and get back with me :)

And to me, while one may say that the teaching of 'real' math does not start until calculus, I would disagree.

It is crucial in the study of many things from number theory to data analysis. But therein one can see it more as a tool to assist in opening the window into the nature of numbers (primes, et al).

A good start with the young minds of today may well be a truly in-depth analysis of how numbers actually work and their properties.

I see algebra and trigonometry as middle men, where a symbolism and procedure move the mind along from a generally linear method of numerical analysis and into a properties driven one (and more formulaic).

Calculus is the marriage of those ideas with geometry, and produce children like differential geometry, topology, and so on.

I will agree that to some, me in this case, schools we slow in teaching methods (not the teachers, but the way they took a year to teach you something). I became interested in math when a friend of my dad's came over to see our new trs-80 model 1. He was a programmer for defense department war simulations (through NAA I believe). I asked him to tell me how all that worked, how did they project X and Y in battle. It was all math he said.

So I took to learning algebra, trig, geometry, calculus, topology, and a whole lot more during my teen years. I was helping seniors with their trig homework. It seemed easy to me (I thought more about the ratios of things then the terms behind them, but that was just me).

I am no genius, just worked hard. Never understood why it took a year to learn Algebra 1.

These many years later I still buy and read math books for fun, but mainly on number theory.

Teachers do the best usually with what they have, and how they are told to do it. An overhaul is needed, but let's not be snide about it ;)

[pinto]

55. Just dropping this in. Can someone set an example of simple civilty somewhere in all this?

Thanks. It'd be greatly appreciated.

[BlooInBloo]

60. (shrug) I'm happy to take my desire for better educated teachers/public elsewhere.

[Goblinmonger]

65. Why don't you teach, then?

It shouldn't be that hard to take that graduate degree you have in your area (you do have at least a master's, right, given your level of condescending to the "masses"?) and get an emergency license to teach in most states. You can work on your education classes while you teach.

What are your degrees in? You still haven't answered my question.

[BlooInBloo]

69. Sorry - missed it.

Two in philosophy, one in math.

I've taught plenty - and love it. It's draining, of course, but incredibly satisfying when you get the lightbulb blink on for the kid.

[Azathoth]

86. Oh Jesus, another math/CPS and philosophy "major"

That explains much.

[rockymountaindem]

104. No, BlueinBloo is too busy mocking everyone for being less intelligent than him

Too bad we can't all be so smart. Then there probably wouldn't be any problems of any kind, would there?

[Azathoth]

85. OK, let's test your knowledge of "real math"

Since yours is probably one of the most supercilious posts I've seen in a long time, I figure it wouldn't hurt to test your knowledge of "basic math". So let's see...

Compute the improper integral ((x^(1/4)) / (1 + x^3))dx from zero to positive infinity. (Oh, and show your work. We don't want no CAS solutions, that's for those uneducated masses).

[BlooInBloo]

87. lol! My first impulse would be to find an appropriate contour, and go...

... via the Residue Theorem. Does it evaluate to something nice? I'll see if I have some time to think about it tomorrow.

Oh - and you mentioned something about "cps". What does that mean?

[Azathoth]

88. ...

Does it evaluate to something nice?

Not really, but it's fun to watch someone with only two semesters of calculus try to integrate it. Judging by the fact that you at least know what Cauchy's theorem and the residue theorem are, it's apparent that you have studied upper-level math and that you aren't talking out of your ass. Accordingly, I'd say your condescending attitude is likely a manifestation of your feelings of superiority toward "average" people who have never taken a class past Calculus 1 (including most non-math students overseas).

As far as Calculus itself goes, it has never, to my knowledge, been taught at the secondary level in the US past elementary integration and infinite series, and it isn't taught as part of the core curriculum overseas past that level either. Sure, A-level students will probably study it in somewhat more depth, but that's at the expense of other subjects, since those students are effectively starting their major before they go to university. Condescendingly dismissing pre-calculus algebra and trigonometry -- topics which form the core math curriculum of secondary schools across the globe -- reveals more about you than it does about the state of education in the United States.

and you mentioned something about "cps". What does that mean?

CPS = computer science. In my experience, mathematical science+philosophy = arrogance. I once knew a kid back at NYU who had double-majored in computer science and philosophy. He spent a couple of hours one night lecturing me on the brilliance of Aristotle and he kept citing The Republic as an example. No joke.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

98. Arrant nonsense.

Basic mathematics is still mathematics. To suggest that there's something wrong about referring to teaching small children how to add as "mathematics" is just ludicrous - that's what it's always called, that's what it is.

It's like saying that teaching children how to play football isn't "teaching football" unless they're trying to get into a professional side.

[Canuckistanian]

19. Hey, watch that.

There are idiots in every profession. Don't go drawing any wild conclusions because of this or any other examples.

And you should know that the RWingnuts are going to publicize the shit out of stuff like this because they hate teachers even more than you appear to.

It's the lowest-paying, least respected carreer that requires a Masters degree.

Show some respect for the ones that actually DO stick around to try and make a difference.

[BlooInBloo]

27. No. I want better. If *better* is offensive to you, then so much the worse for you.

[SoCalDem]

51. STOP IT... ALL OF YOU !!

Everyone knows that Karl Rove controls THE math.. all of it..

Now quit fighting about whether math can exist without calculus..(isn't that waht the dentist cleans off of teeth?)

[Canuckistanian]

58. He started it!

not my fault..... (grumble)

[uppityperson]

61. gets old.

even from the highly educated and intelligencers.

[BlooInBloo]

72. LOLOL! Alright... I'm done.

[Goblinmonger]

50. Nice attitude, spanky

What stellar degrees do you have? No idiots in your major?

[uppityperson]

52. wonder if more than 1?

[Dorian Gray]

64. From an ex-teacher...

I find your statement really off base and unfounded. As a matter of fact, at my husbands high school, every single teacher has at least a Master's degree. Not stupid, nor are they dull. They're pretty darn smart. :eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

71. Hm - I had intended to clearly indicate that the *field* matters. My apologies for failing.

[ulysses]

74. LOL!

So tell us, genius - what do you do for a living?

[BlooInBloo]

75. lol - i'm no genius - which is a subtle, succinct way of putting my point, i suppose...

Anyway - I'm currently a financial research programmer at some bank.

I never understood what "leg up" people are seeking to get from personal questions (what's your job, what degrees do you have, etc.).

[ulysses]

101. wasn't looking for a "leg up",

just wondering about the background that enables your commentary on the entire teaching profession. :)

[Quantess]

81. You're got a lot of nerve. You're out of line.

There are many problems with the American education system, and it's unfair to pig-pile on teachers, such as what you are doing. People like you are helping to discourage intelligent people from teaching professions. It's already a thankless job, without jeers from the peanut gallery. I was a speech pathologist in schools, until I came to my senses, and realized that I was never going to be happy, by working so hard with such meager reward.

[BlooInBloo]

82. No intelligent person needs me to discourage them from teaching....

[Quantess]

84. touche.

:rofl:

[Azathoth]

91. Indeed. They might end up with a student like you.

:rofl:

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. Where I teach, you don't need to be certified to sub

We would never get subs if we required only certified teachers.

[MountainLaurel]

11. Most places, you don't need to be certified

Or even have teaching experience. Where I am living now, you need a bachelor's degree to be a sub. In one where I used to live, you needed 56 hours of college credit (I had college classmates who would sub in the month-and-a-half between the end of the spring semester and the time public schools closed.)

[Reverend_Smitty]

67. Exactly, in NJ you only need the equivalent of "Junior" status credit wise

you also need a clean background check, a TB test and about 80 bucks to get a county license. Just about anybody can be a sub...you certainly don't have to be a teacher or even an education major.

But as for the idiot in the OP, he absolutely deserved to get fired...what a moran! As someone who could practically cite OSHA standards and universal precautions in my sleep, this makes me cringe

[LWolf]

94. It doesn't take much in CA.

An AA and a clean security check. That's it. They prefer a BA, but there is a shortage. When I taught in CA, and had to be out of the room, I would leave fun, easy, mindless stuff for the kids to do, that required as little from the sub as possible. It takes longer to clean up after a sub who messed up an important lesson or activity than it does to just take a day off for reader's theater, crafts, videos, games, etc.. Of course, it meant that I hardly ever got to be there for those things.

In my current state, a substitute has a regular teaching credential, just like the teacher in the classroom. It makes a big difference.

[Horse with no Name]

97. You don't even have to be a High School graduate

in Texas to be a sub. I think a GED will suffice.

[sal paradise]

4. Wow

What was this guy thinking? Anyone who overlooks the serious dangers that something like this raises has no place teaching.

[AngryOldDem]

7. Jeebus!

:scared: :wow:

I'm totally at a loss for words. What was that asshat THINKING????

[MGD]

9. Probably a fundy who disbelieves the germ theory of disease transmission as well as evolution

If they get hepatitis or HIV, it's God's will.

[boolean]

16. Not defending the guy...but the probability of transfer here is minute

The chances of a disease spreading through those tiny pin pricks is quite tiny. Not that I'm defending this idiot. I'm just saying.

[JackBeck]

77. You do know that almost all IDU who have HCV transfer the virus

the first time they share a needle or works, right? More times than HIV.

Now, since many people don't know they have HCV until 5-10, even 15-30 years down the line, we have no clue if any of these kids have HCV, unless they were tested in advance. And since HCV is a virus that is even smaller than HIV and replicates trillions of times a day, "the chances of a disease spreading through those tiny pin pricks" is very high.

[uppityperson]

79. Hepatitis B is also easily transmissible by tiny bits of blood.

And it stays active for a while/ doesn't die as fast as HIV does. Much easier to get than HIV transfer.

[JackBeck]

95. I think you may be confusing Hepatitis B with C.

While HBV is transmitted through blood, it's more considered and STD and it doesn't stay active as long as Hepatitis C. And with HBV, 90% of the people who get the virus, their immune system kicks in and gets rid of the virus. There's also a vaccine for HBV if you haven't been exposed to it.

HCV, on the other hand, is only transmitted through blood-to-blood contact. It can stay alive for at least 4 days outside of the body, while HIV dies when it hits the air, or there soon after. Also only about 15-20% of people who get HCV spontaneously clear the virus. About 80% of people who get HCV will have a chronic, long-term infection. Hepatitis C is more easy to get than HIV. And another thing they share in common is that there is no vaccine for either.

[uppityperson]

107. thanks, adding in Hep B factor also

I think HepB vaccine is standard for babies last bit, not sure if these kids fall into that age group. And yes, HepC is a very much more intense and long term worse disease than Hep B, but just adding in Hep B.

[Horse with no Name]

99. One good thing

Most of these kids (in this particular age) will be immunized for Hepatitis B.
HIV is more difficult to get than one might think...however, Hepatitis C is probably the main concern.

[JackBeck]

100. Excellent point.

My sister had a baby last week and was offered to give her son the HBV vaccine right off the bat. And yes, HIV is more difficult to get than HCV. You can be exposed to HIV many times without transmission occurring. With HCV, transmission occurs a lot easier and faster.

[Eric J in MN]

17. His name is being kept secret from the taxpayers...

...who paid his salary, and will consquently pay his salary when he goes on to the next district.

[ruiner4u]

21. Something like this happened a few months ago..

I was flabbergasted then... And now I'm just disgusted that it happened again

[uppityperson]

35. don't share needles, use condoms. Perhaps he didn't understand what a Needle was?

after all, they weren't injecting anything, right? And why would anyone expect a science teacher to have basic safety issues down? Good thing they weren't working with acids or fire.

[JackBeck]

78. Hepatitis C is spread through blood-to-blood contact.

They were sharing a needle. If any student had HCV and their blood was on that needle and another student used it to prick their skin, it's likely that the Hepatitis C virus was spread to that other student.

[majorjohn]

39. substitute teacher, eh? n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

43. There are real consequences to allowing the scientifically illiterate

to teach science classes. I hope the kids are all okay. I hope some lessons will be learned from this.

[lonestarnot]

53. OMG

:argh: :argh: :nopity: :hurts:

[laundry_queen]

57. o-m-g

The stupidity is unbelieveable.

I remember in our science course in high school, we were not allowed to try to type our own blood because the school board didn't want anyone's bodily fluids, well, outside of the body. Even with all the precautions, they said, things could very well happen. I thought it was dumb at the time, but now I see they had a VERY good point.

[sakabatou]

63. WTF?!

Seriously, WTF?!

[mitchum]

70. Why didn't he just show a movie?

[madmusic]

83. Well, there ought to be a law agains this.

Let's vote on it.

[Saphire]

96. a kid got suspended for 2 weeks for sticking my daughter with one.

and we had the option of charging him w/assult.(we didn't because it was a new lancet, and had he had not yet stuck anyone else) How a teacher could do this is beyond me, not to mention that none of the students protested???

[Saphire]

103. and now what you've all been waiting for...the #1 stupid freeper reply

To: eartotheground
AIDS?


So they are assuming these kids were all queers?

Some parent should sue for defamation of character.


32 posted on 11/21/2006 12:50:29 PM PST by EyeGuy
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[WI_DEM]

106. And this guy was teaching science?