Why (intentionally) use offensive, or potentially offensive language except ...

[uppityperson]

to give offense, be emphatic or out of ignorance? Or not having enough imagination to come up with better descriptions, or perhaps having the imagination but are too lazy to do so? Edited to add or having a physical or mental health problem that leads to such (Tourettes, brain injury or tumor, schizophrenia). Perhaps I will restate as to "intentionally use".

Over the years I have come up with 3 categories of swear words (sex, religion, excretion) and several more offensive language (race, sexual orientation, sex of person, religion, more categories of simplistic characteristics). Why use these simplistic characterizations or offensive words when there are so many other ways of expressing how you feel?

In MY opinion, people swear or use offensive language to be emphatic, or to give offense, or because they don't realize they are being offensive, or because they are too unimaginative or lazy to come up with other words.

What other reasons are there?

[jgraz]

1. Fuckin-A!

:evilgrin:

[Anakin Skywalker]

4. Yeah! F*ck It! LOL

[JeffR]

2. damned if I know

I think you've covered it

[uppityperson]

6. it came together 1 night in a nursing home listening to a senile woman swear

It was a boring night and after listening to her go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and finally repeat we came up with the 3 categories of swear words. Still not sure about the characteristic bigotry though.

[Vorta]

18. WHen old people lose it

My grandmother was the kind of lady you don't often come across these days. Her manners were impeccable. After several strokes, we never knew what was going to come out of her mouth.

[Rex]

3. Fucking a

right!

[mdmc]

5. to drive home a point

but i guess it is a lazy / unimaginative way to do so.

[Zhade]

7. Who fucking cares? They're just fucking words.

I mean, I could say your argument is deeply flawed, and endemic of the highly illogical, hubristic self-assured egocentrism that demands others conform to their preferred level of discourse...

...but it's a lot more to the point to say "what a stupid fucking argument".

[uppityperson]

8. yes, but I am so much more impressed by your 1st statement, am in awe

aaaaaawwweee

and I like thinking about words.

[TahitiNut]

9. I often find the meaning is clearer when I use scatological rhetoric rather than logical.

So, if the purpose is to communicate, then the choice of language is appropriate.

Besides, most people have a limited enough vocabulary - no need to make it even smaller.


(See? Wasn't that boring?) :evilgrin:

[scarletwoman]

16. "scatological rhetoric"???? Fuck that shit!

Jeezus H. Kriste, don't be such a pedantic asshole!

:evilgrin:

sw

[TahitiNut]

20. Moi? "Pedantic"?

Hey ... I don't do ANYTHING on foot anymore. :dunce:



:rofl:

[scarletwoman]

26. Well, damn! Does that mean you won't fuck standing up?

O8)

sw

[TahitiNut]

27. (sigh) It's been so long .... I can't remember.

After all, my 'hobbies' are abstinence and celibacy. :silly: (I think I'm a virgin again.) :cry:

[scarletwoman]

34. Ummmm... At the risk of highjacking this profoundly sociologically important thread...

Is there anything I can do to help? Uh, I have been "enjoying" the very same hobbies myself, but I still remember...

;)
sw

[TahitiNut]

43. Well, there are some forms of tantric meditation that interest me.

In my own solo meditations, I've sometimes experienced (what I think is described as) 'ego death' and what I label as Hot Dog Vendor (samhedi?), but I'm also curious about the static tantric techniques. What very little experience with coupled (non-contact) meditation I've had was very powerful.

;-)
tn

On the other hand, it might be fun to share a joint. :smoke: I've found that helps my memory. :silly:

[scarletwoman]

50. As Sri Baba Ram Bob Dylan sez, "Everybody must get stoned"...

And I'm a rainy day woman...

:*
sw

[Warren DeMontague]

62. So by "Hot Dog Vendor", do you mean

"Make Me One With Everything"?

[TahitiNut]

65. Indeed. (Obvious, isn't it? I like the joke. I'm easily amused.)

:silly:

It's the 'sartori' (or samehdi?) experience, I guess. I kinda give up on words when it comes to ths stuff. Trying to describe it with words feels sorta like standing on the shore of the ocean and throwing stones. I appreciate those more erudite persons who do it (HRH The Dalai Lama, for example) - but that's not me. I'm better as a swimmer.

[Warren DeMontague]

66. Know Whatcha Mean.

"What shall we say, shall we call it by a name?
As well to count the angels, dancin' on a pin."

[TahitiNut]

67. I have another quote I discovered for myself that really does it for me.

"Why know the name of a thing when the thing itself you do not know? Whose work is it but your own to open your eyes? But indeed, the work of the universe is to make such a fool of you that you will know yourself for one, and so begin to be wise!"

— George MacDonald, Lilith, 1895


I just LOVE that. I was reading the book, stumbled on that, and went "D'oh!!"

[msongs]

10. ...but one way of saying makes you SEEM literate, the other makes you sound like a bully nt

[survivor999]

12. Yay!

[cboy4]

14. You should have said, FUCK YOU ZHADE, YOU ASS HOLE . . .

:rofl:

[Zhade]

70. Wait - are you saying I should have said "fuck you" to myself...?

Confused here.

(And isn't "asshole" one word?)

[cboy4]

86. Okay okay, so I blew my own joke to the OP!

D'oh!

I mean, FUCK!

[Mythsaje]

11. Depends on the mood I'm trying to convey...

Roughly half of my essays don't use swear words at all. I can say the same thing without it. But if I'm trying to convey anger, or frustration, or simply drive home the general passion from which the words are derived, THEN I'll inject swear words into the text.

Sometimes nothing quite matches the mood like a good "FUCK."

[scarletwoman]

13. I just don't fucking give a shit, goddammit.

}(

[TahitiNut]

21. Well, perhaps a copulation laxative might help?

:evilgrin: When I REALLY want to give a fucking shit, I find it helps.

[scarletwoman]

28. Uh.. I... er... um... ah...

Okay, that's it. You've left me speechless...

sw

[TahitiNut]

29. (giggle)

:loveya: :yourock:

[Cobalt-60]

15. Profanity is an art form

When I enlisted in the Navy, I could barely swear.
Oh I knew the words and would use them when injured or surprised..
But Navy Life required more.
Before I left boot camp i could understand sentences and paragraphs composed entirely of swear words.
By the time I was discharged I could weave a cloud as sulfurous as the chief did back in boot camp.
I rarely have a chance to practice the art today. But when I do there is absolutely no doubt that I mean business.

[Captain Hilts]

25. Agreed. I've recently learned the next generation of USMC vulgarity, but won't use it here. nt

[TahitiNut]

32. Yep. And the NCO's are masters of that art.

I was in awe of my drill sergeant at Fort Lost In The Woods.

[americanstranger]

17. A notable exception:

Lenny Bruce.

I just blogged about a standup routine that Bruce used to do, using the same word that Michael Richards used in his little tirade.

Michael Richards, You're No Lenny Bruce.

It was shocking when Bruce did it, but he did it precisely to disarm the power of the word - his intent was to shock, but not to insult.

And among many differences between a giant like Bruce and a... TV character like Richards, that is the greatest difference. Bruce used the word to educate in a time when it was used to hurt, Richards used the word to try to hurt in a time when anyone using it to hurt should know better.

And that is why people still talk about Bruce as one of the America's greatest comedians nearly 50 years after his death - and why in 50 years when someone mentions Michael Richards, they may remember that he was once a character on a popular TV show.

More - including a transcript of Bruce's standup bit - at the link.

- as

[Minnesota_Lib]

19. How can you be so insensitive to those of us with Typer’s Tourettes…

Sometime I just...shit, fuck, fuck...can't help what...Coulter’s adams apple...I type. Shame on you for..Rachel Sklar is such a fox!...your callowness.

[uppityperson]

24. aw damn it all, missed Tourettes! Thanks for the reminder.

[TexasProgresive]

22. Brain damage-

My brother-in-law never used profanity until he suffered brain damage from a really bad industrial accident.

[Captain Hilts]

23. They don't realize this isn't their living room. It's a public space and it's not appropriate. nt

[elocs]

30. Your post is like wearing a sign on your back saying, "Kick Me!"

The reaction is pretty predictable.

[uppityperson]

33. I know, I knew. 1 other reason is fun and games

[wuushew]

31. Everyone of us has the potential to be a Budda

Beings of pure compassion and an enlightened mind. If we are the product of our environment how are we helped by rebelling against the false tyranny of politeness out of spite?

I guess I don't see the authoritarianism others do in these recent PC wars.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. How do you know beings of pure compassion and enlightened minds

don't swear like fucking sailors from time to time?

[omega minimo]

36. Ifyou are a Buddist, you know "the false tyranny of politeness"

is a bullshit statment.

"Out of spite," or not, "false tyranny" perhaps, but politeness has a purpose and a place. Maybe even on a discussion board. :eyes:

And if you are a Buddhist, you know how to spell Buddha.

:hi:

[uppityperson]

37. spelling police is not politeness

ohhhhmmmmmmm

[wuushew]

38. I acknowledge the mistake

but will leave it as a sign of my humbleness.

[omega minimo]

46. LOL-- Still dunno bout the "Tyranny of Politeness"

om

[porphyrian]

39. The real reason would be that you don't control the conversation...

...and your opinion as to what defines "offensive" is not universally accepted. So, unless you want to enforce your personal morality as the "middle ground" of acceptable vocabulary in communication, you're fucking Jesus H. Shitoutofluck. Let's call it freedom of expression. Feel free to respond as you like.

[uppityperson]

40. not looking to control any conversation, making conversation about why we use words we do

If someone knows a word is offensive, why do they intentionally use it? That is the question. Not you must all speak/write as I deem proper, but why do we speak/write as we do.

[porphyrian]

45. But it answers the question.

To answer your first question, there is no universally-accepted notion of what constitutes an offensive word, and the opinions of others about language usage influence the choice of words to varying degrees depending on the persons and the situation, not as a constant.

Why we speak and write (or any other form of expression) as we do is very complicated and also varies greatly by person and situation, and is a different question.

[uppityperson]

48. I understand and thanks.

sorry, took it personally. There is no universally accepted notion of what constitutes an offensive word, true. Different people get used to speaking different ways, different ways are acceptable. We learn and use language in different ways and differences are acceptable by different groups. No universal offensiveness is found since different groups have different words.

My question was why intentionally use language that you know is offensive? Since you know it is offensive, why use it? ("you" is the univeral, perhaps royal, "you") So far I have gotten a couple new answers that I hadn't thought of like physical/psych problem and fun & games. So I am getting answers to this question, as well as a whole lot of fun&games.

[porphyrian]

54. "...language that you know is offensive..."

To who? Offensive to me? Or offensive to the person spoken to? Or, offensive to some people, but whether or not the person spoken to will find it offensive is still a mystery? And what's the context of the conversation? Is it recorded or verbal? Are there witnesses, and how would their presence influence the language? These are just the questions I have off the top of my head that affect my answer.

Communication and language alone are a complex subject. The reason and occasion for the use of particular language is another complex subject. So, really, what you're asking is not so simple a question as it first appears.

[uppityperson]

58. thinking here and trying to keep it simple.

using offensive language you know if offensive I am meaning offensive to the person hearing it. Like why cuss in front of your gramma when you know she will get upset. Why call someone a bigotted word that might, in another sentence, have a different meaning ("coons are going after my chickens at night" is different spoken to a KKK person vs my partner who said would work making the chicken coop more secure at night).

I have found that even though I try to ask simply things, to make things simple since they are complicated if not simplistic, I have to refine the question as I go along.

[Zhade]

73. Are we mind readers?

How in the world are we going to know beforehand what offends DUers?

"Fuck" doesn't offend some, whilst it offends others. Yet I have no way to know ahead of time if the person I'm responding to will be offended by its use.

Obviously, there are words that all of us will find offensive, like racial epithets, but "bullshit" and "motherfucker" are not on that same level of socially-condemned bigotry.

Unlike the n-word, say, these words aren't intended to denigrate an entire people.

[uppityperson]

76. not mind reading and not meant to pass judgement on anyone

asking in general why we behave as we do. IF a person were to know that what they were going to say was offensive to whomever they were going to say it to, why would they say it? That is my question.

I really don't give a fuck if people use shitty language, unless it is meant to hurt and then it sure as hell doesn't have to be foul, but it can be.

[Zhade]

85. It's a fair question.

I disagree with the conclusion that it's laziness - too simple an explanation, I think.

But sure, the question's worth asking, even if only for the hilarious replies. :D

[omega minimo]

51. Except on DU, there's something called DU Rules.

"....there is no universally-accepted notion of what constitutes an offensive word, and the opinions of others about language usage influence the choice of words to varying degrees depending on the persons and the situation, not as a constant."



:hi: P

[porphyrian]

61. ...oh, you rules people...

:hi:

[omega minimo]

82. They're DU Rules, not mine

[Zhade]

71. THANK you. That was my point, too.

NT!

[lonestarnot]

41. What bullshit.

[uppityperson]

42. Amazing how many answers do not touch on my question.

What other reasons are there?

Thank you to those who did and :toast: to everyone else also.

[BuyingThyme]

44. Reality is offensive.

[pitohui]

47. another reason is bonding

you miss that many people bond over bad language -- the teens or middle schoolers are the best examples perhaps, but many older people bond over bad language because it's like a wink exchanged and putting the feet up and saying, "i trust you, i can be myself with you," and i've noticed now that i'm much older that for some older people it's a way of saying, "hey, i'm not dead yet, i still speak the language, i did not turn into queen victoria just because i turned 60"

of course there's usual tourette's, asberger's, whatever, sometimes a person is tired and is trying to say what they have to say, and the fancy-pants words are not coming, and in any case, it seems silly to spend 100 words saying what one "oh fuck :eyes: " will say better


it is often lack of imagination that causes people to take offense at "bad" language where no offense is intended

of course sometimes offense is intended but you did ask if there are alternate reasons and sooo often there are

[uppityperson]

49. that is another reason I hadn't thought of, bonding .

thanks. I like to try to figure out why people do as we do (both me individually, others I know and people in general)

[omega minimo]

57. Good point about the bonding, but here's where the ignorance shows up

"it is often lack of imagination that causes people to take offense at "bad" language where no offense is intended"

Even people who believe that have got to be smart enuff to know how stupid that sounds. That's like a Dittohead bullshit meme or sumthin. Not worth repeating since it didn't make sense the first time.

:eyes:

[uppityperson]

60. lack of imagination can cause a person to take offense when not intended?

So if someone says something that I take offense at (and it was not intended to be offensive) I took offense because I could not imagine another meaning than the offensive one, or I could not imagine this word used not offensively or?

I know that words are not always meant to be offensive, but wondering what you mean. Thanks.

[pitohui]

75. maybe lack of rapport would be the better word?

we've all seen this

say you are talking to some new people, a crowd of older boomerish types, late 50s, early 60s, then there are moments of testing when someone drops the facade and figures they can kick back and relax with you, so they might casually drop the f-bomb or make some derogatory comment about old chimpy, then other person in the group instead of getting the real message of "okay, we're all friends here so i can let my hair down" gets side-tracked and offended by the f-bomb or the chimpy-calling-out

rapport was not established, the person who thought they could kick back and be honest read the second person wrong, then the second person read the first person's attempt at being casual all wrong and took it as trying to be deliberately offensive when it wasn't, and it suddenly gets all awkward

a failure of imagination all around, first person didn't imagine the second person had so many hang-ups, second person didn't quite grasp what was being communicated by sharing such casual language and instead felt disrespected

i have a couple of friends who are, for lack of a better word, quite stuffy yet i have others who are quite frank so i see this happen quite often

the cursing friend goes away thinking the non-cursing friend is a bit of a stuffed shirt and the non-cursing friend shakes his head about what kind of weirdos i've introduced him to this time!
what we have here is a failure to communicate :-)

[natrat]

52. omg the language police show up-STFU

[uppityperson]

53. guess you didn't read my questions as questions.

or is this another fun&games post? NOT policing but asking questions as to why do something.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

55. "bad" words

The excuse of "They aren't smart enough to express themselves properly" is what our parents' generation used.

They were horrified. Growing up, I heard hell, damn, bitch, bastard. Not the stuff they say now.

As a result I did not hear the bad words until I was in college, and also had no idea what males did to females to get them pregnant, when I was in high school.

If you need a challenge in your cussing, you should learn to cuss in foreign languages.

For further guidance, consult "Maledicta: The International Journal of Verbal Aggression".


My fecal donation capacity on this topic has been exceeded.

[derby378]

56. Another option: to wake people up

A few months ago, I contributed a post on GD dealing with Greg Palast's findings that a military base was deliberately trying to sabotage the votes of its black servicemen. The title I chose for the post included a line from a Public Enemy song that happened to include the "N-word."

I almost got more response from the use of "that word" than I did from the fact that black soldiers were being deprived of their right to vote. I have no regrets. To the best of my knowledge, I was firmly within the rules set down by DU's admins. But it was a calculated risk I took because of the socio-cultural connotations associated with that word.

[uppityperson]

59. shock value.

good thought. thanks.

[seabeyond]

63. i cuss all the time,... i have never found the need to use any

of the catch phrases that would hurt another person. i have no deisre. recently talked to brother about this exact thing and he tells me i should nto be offended. i like that the best, someone uses a phrase offensive to another group. when the group gets offended, which could be the only reason to use it,.... the person tells them they shouldnt be offended. that has to be the sole intent.

[Mr_Spock]

64. dig that

fuckin' a!

[AngryOldDem]

68. For me, it's stress relief.

Period. I work at a highly stressful job and I notice that most of the people I work with swear at a pretty constant rate as well. It's either that, or put my fist through a wall at times, and I really don't want to be replastering walls every other day.

It may be a simplistic answer, but that's why I cuss.

[laundry_queen]

78. Same here.

In fact, there have been studies that show nothing quite relieves stress like a good f-bomb. Substitute words (fiddlesticks, friggin, fart) did not have the same stress relieving effect. "Shit" and "fuck" are like magic words in that regard.

And I like to piss off my sainted father who would NEVER say "shit" or "fuck" but has no problem saying "Jesus Christ" every 5 minutes.

[Nevernose]

69. Cultural. Two examples:

I work at an inner city school, and I love to cuss. Not in front of students, but definitely in my personal life. My reason is almost always for emphasis, and because it's fun.

The other day I asked, "Where's Juan? Why is he late?"

The Other Juan replied, completely casually, "Oh, he's taking a shit."

No shame, no effort to shock. That's just what everyone he knows -- family, friends, neighbors -- say when someone's in the restroom. "Oh, I gotta take a shit. He's taking a hit. Sorry I was late, I was taking a shit."

or

"Mister, you asked us to write about a time when we were injured or ill. Is the time my sister kicked me in my balls and sent me to the hospital an injury, or an illness? 'Cause my left nut hurt for a long time after that, but they gave me antibitotics, too."

Now, this is a sweet, sweet kid. Dumb as a brick, but sweet as honey. "Jeffrey," I asked, "Could you ask me that question using more polite language?"

"I didn't say 'fucking.' Remember, you asked me not to say that anymore, and I been workin' really hard on that. OHHH, you mean 'balls.' What you want me to say instead .... 'nads?"

[FlaGranny]

72. Adolescence?

Or having never outgrown it?

Edit: I cuss myself sometimes, but not in the supermarket, in the doctor's office, in the mall, at restaurants, or other public places. In other words, I cuss when I know that no one will be offended by it. I might cuss at a professional football game or in a bar if I were half lit.

[Zhade]

74. Alternatively, outgrew the silly notion that words themselves can be bad.

Archaic. Pointless. Oh, racial epithets are bad, for example, but not because of the words themselves, but the intent.

[neebob]

77. Because I can

and because I have issues with authority, and I said one swear word after another and just kept noticing how nothing really bad ever happened that appeared directly related to my having said the swear word. Sure, some people got upset - but no lightning bolts came out of the sky, no one keeled over dead, and the world kept spinning on its axis. Eventually it became a habit, and I see no reason to change it because some people are so unquestioning and rule oriented and domineering that they need to try and persuade others to stop swearing.

I'm disappointed that an uppity person would have a prissy attitude about swearing.

[uppityperson]

79. you get me wrong. I am asking WHY, not saying DON'T

If I wanted to say "don't" I would have asked for such. I am asking why we do this.

(And uppityperson came about because I didn't want to go through forum life as an uppitybitch so perhaps I am a priss)

[neebob]

81. I didn't necessarily think you were saying don't swear

I'm also a very word-oriented person, and I try to read just the words that are in front of me and not read in. You'll notice I did not actually say you were trying to persuade others not to swear, but you did convey an attitude with the reasons you suggested.

[uppityperson]

83. I think I did, sometimes, usually it takes me a bit to get clear about what I am

asking. Get called out a bunch but it all helps me clarify and listen and learn.

[uppityperson]

80. To clarify: I AM NOT ASKING PEOPLE TO NOT SWEAR!!!!!

thank you. I am asking why people use offensive language when they know it will cause offense. The situation is you have to know that it will cause offense, but then how could ignorance come in? Dang it all, I'm confused. Swear on, I don't care, just wondering why. thanks.

[Exiled in America]

84. Because I can.

To everything there is a season. Context matters. What I say and how I say it in one context may be perfectly appropriate and un-offensive to those involved, and that may be totally different in a different context.

No one should get to make the decision about that but me, and I don't sacrifice that right to anyone.

Not everyone thinks that using what you have called "swear words" (which I think is pretty silly in an of itself) is offensive or important. So to some, you're question sounds like asking why people use the word "blue" or "tree."

Personally, I enjoy all the expressive elements of language, including those that color it. Is there a time, place and context for certain language choices? Of course there is, just like anything else I might say - sometimes I won't say certain things or say them in certain ways depending on the context of the situation.

But I get to decide that for myself.

[Eurobabe]

87. Just fucking because

and I have a Ph. D., do I have to use pedantic words all the time? Gimme a fucking break.

[Senator]

88. Humor

Technically it would be just another form of emphasis. But vulgar language can be used to great comic effect.

"You never cut funny." -- King Kaiser

--