My controversial thread - go ahead and flame away

[PistolSteve]

OK, I kinda like Newt Gingrich.

Do I disagree with him 100% - almost entirely. Would I ever vote for him? HELL NO! Do I think he has been a hypocrit numerous time? I sure do (but so have dems).

But Newt, as recognized by most people, Democrats and Republicans alike, is a pure genius. Not a Karl Rove genius, but a Clinton/Feingold genius. Rhoads Scholar-like and I think Newt loves America (albeit in a much different way I do).

I enjoy disagreeing with a Republican, not hating him. I HATE Bush. I really believe Bush doesn't care about the US. I simple disagree with Newt and there aren't many Republicans I can say that about. Was he right to lead impeachment against Clinton? Well - that's a complicated question. I sure as hell believe there should have been hearings - as did Feingold. I think his attempt was partially partisan, but I also believe that he REALLY HONESTLY thought Clinton should be impeached because he lied. If someone REALLY BELIEVES something, I won't fault him for taking action - even if I disagree. Does that mean I always respect a republican just because s/he really believes in an issue - no. But I do have respect for them when they think it out and are intelligent about it.

I think Newt wants the best for the country, I think he is as genuine as most democrats. Bush only wants the best for himself.

Is he corrupt? Most of you say yes and will cite K street and being close to Abramoff. But if you listen to him speak about corruption, I really believe he means it when he talks about it wrecking Washington. Some will say he is a good liar - but I believe him. He is certainly partisan, but has admitted many mistakes he made. I like that.

Again, please read this: I don't agree with him. I don't like his policies. I definitely don't want him president. But I do like that he cares (in his own way) and that he is intelligent. That he thinks things through. Hell, Clinton liked the guy in a way.

To conclude: I like not hating him.

[JeffR]

1. Mm-kay

:popcorn:

[4morewars]

2. He is not an honorable man.

Plus he wants to steal my pension, so , fuck him !

[Dhalgren]

3. Hitler loved dogs...

[cali]

14. God that pisses me off.

The OP wrote a thoughtful piece. I knew there'd be responses like yours. What a shame. Oh, and the tendency to compare republicans to Nazis has gotten really old,

[PistolSteve]

Thank you - I wasn't trying to promote him - I don't support him at all

I was simply saying I like that he is generally genuine - like McCain USED to be.

[nebenaube]

81. actually

You should read more about the Bush family history... As far as I am concerned the comparisons should be made more since they actually are nazis in the sense that they are fascists.

I grew up in Germany, twelve years total; a child of the cold war. I studied it with fascination. You might want to take some time to enlighten yourself.

[cali]

85. It's not wise to make assumptions.

I have done quite a bit of reading about the Bush family. Not very savory, but then neither is the history of the Kennedy family. Or the Watsons of IBM or any number of other wealthy famillies.

[Dhalgren]

126. I was making the point that every human being has qualities that

might be admirable to some, but that it makes little difference when the human is viewed in toto. I was not comparing anyone to anyone. "Thoughtful" pieces praising Newt are flame-bait and you know it. The fact that you over reacted to my post and was all geared up for a fight is proof of that. Take a nap and stop looking for fights. If you want to hold Newt up as some kind of example of political wisdom and insight, then be my guest... :eyes:

[Junkdrawer]

4. A smart guy who can feign sincerity...

There are lots of guys like that.

[Crankie Avalon]

5. I "like" him enough to wish he were the Repuke nominee in 2008...

...that vile asshat ought to be enough to turn America away from the cancer of the Repuke party once and for all.

[Gormy Cuss]

6. He's a good family man too.

(do I really need to add this tag? :sarcasm:)

[BikeWriter]

Uh, he may not have thrown his Mom out in the cold...

:shrug:

[babylonsister]

7. Yeah, he's a real peach.

And this doesn't even address his personal life, where if I remember correctly, he abandoned a wife who was battling cancer.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newt_Gingrich

Ethics charges

Gingrich was accused of hypocrisy and unethical behavior when he accepted a $4.5 million advance as part of a book deal, in light of his previous role in the investigation of Jim Wright. Following the accusations, Gingrich returned the advance.

Including charges related to the book deal, Democrats filed 84 ethics charges against Speaker Gingrich during his term, including claiming tax-exempt status for a college course run for political purposes and using the GOPAC political action committee as a slush fund. All charges were eventually dropped following an investigation by the Republican-led House Ethics Committee. However, Gingrich admitted to "unintentionally" giving inaccurate information to the House Ethics Committee during the course of the investigation. The committee did not indict him on charges of intentional perjury.<9> The matter was settled when he agreed to reimburse the Committee $300,000 for the cost of prolonging the investigation. The payment was described as a "cost assessment" and not a fine by the Committee.<10> He also agreed to not "spin" the story in the media, but admit publicly to his transgressions.

On January 10, 1997, the New York Times printed a story that revealed Gingrich, in collusion with other House Republicans, planned to abrogate his agreement by misrepresenting the ethics violations he committed. The story was supported by quotes from a taped phone conversation between Gingrich and his fellow Republicans. A firestorm of controversy ensued, with Republicans insisting that the privacy of the participants in the conversation has been breached, and others insisting that the public has a need to know about Gingrich's intent to violate his agreement with the Ethics Committee. The couple who taped the conversation, John and Alice Martin, who claimed that they "lucked" into it over their police scanner while driving in their car and who "just happened" to have a recorder available, pled guilty to charges surrounding the taping and paid a $500 fine. Five years later, Democratic representative Jim McDermott publicly admitted that he leaked the tape. Republican John Boehner, one of the participants in the conversation, sued McDermott for $10,000 in civil damages; as of May 2006, that court case is in the US Court of Appeals in Washington, possibly heading for the Supreme Court. Many media organizations and watchdog groups support McDermott for political reasons; claiming that if Boehner prevails, the ability of news organizations to reveal embarrassing and potentially criminal behavior of government officials will be drastically curtailed.<11>.

[Ellis Wyatt]

30. why

do people continue to cite Wikipedia as a valid source of information? I thought Colbert would end that whole charade.

[Boston Critic]

39. Bravo

I tell my students that Wikipedia is NOT an acceptable reference on their term papers.

Apparently there are still people being fooled.

[Bucky]

46. Wikipedia is self correcting and it cites the information that people are most curious about

It's not definitive and it's not exactly peer reviewed (unless you count amateurs as peers), but it does give quick and reliable information in an easy to use format. You can't use it for a formal debate or a research paper, but it's certainly sufficient for an internet discussion board.

[Ellis Wyatt]

63. not even for that.

100% of the words on those pages are up for debate, as anyone can write anything at any time. And "activists" can attack a page and continue to update a page as they see fit.

Especially those "incendiary" areas like political figures or historical events. I do really like how it's set up; it's very easy to get lulled into using it based on that fact, but the factual innacuracies and/or inherrent bias on the site makes it very difficult to rely on a word written there.

[babylonsister]

88. Facts that are down in the history books are not up for debate;

I didn't cite hypotheticals, and it's an easy source to cull the info that you need w/o having to weed through numerous articles.

[Gormy Cuss]

91. Wiki is not a reliable source, but some Wiki articles are sourced.

The Gingrich article clipped above has about 20 footnotes. That's the advantage of Wiki. It's like looking at someone else's crib notes. A curious person could trace the statements back to the cited sources and try to determine the accuracy, and use those same sources to identify other sources.

[alcibiades_mystery]

121. Um

100% of the words on those pages are up for debate, as anyone can write anything at any time.

You've basically described knowledge-making in its totality.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BikeWriter]

11. May I have some?

[PistolSteve]

12. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!?

I am as liberal as they get - did you even read my post? Where do you get that I support him? Where?

I was simply stating that I like not hating him and that I believe that he wants what is best even though I COMPLETELY disagree with him.

My point is that most repubs don't care - I think he does.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PistolSteve]

22. What am I full of? Do you think I support him?

[BikeWriter]

32. Ha ha ha ha ha!

[Bucky]

55. Man, Steve, did you ever get sucker punched there.

Remember, not everyone who taunts you for having a different opinion is worth paying attention to. In fact, people who taunt you for having a different opinion are the last people to pay attention to. Welcome to DU and thank you for posting a well thought thru discussion thread. I mostly disagree with your points (his thoughtfulness is more style than substance and his errors in government are more hubris than misunderstanding), but you do raise an important point. People who disagree with us aren't all evil.

I'm ready for my popcorn, Mr Demille

[PistolSteve]

66. Thank you - I was hoping the discussion would be more like your post...

People being reasonable and saying, "Steve, I disagree, here's why.... but I respect your opinion" - guess not.

[zanne]

97. What I got out of your post is this....

You're wishy-washy about a rightwing politician. I don't know why you bothered.

[PistolSteve]

104. I'm not "wishy-washy" about him at all - I just don't hate him

I don't agree with him on nearly everything - I think he would be bad for our country. No, I think he would be HORRIBLE for our country.

I just think he is genuine, thinks things through and is smart - I like that - It is rare in Republicans.

[asthmaticeog]

128. How old were you when you joined the Democrat party?

[walldude]

69. I'll bring the beer...

:beer: :beer: :beer:




And for my 2 cents, Newt is an ass.

[BikeWriter]

8. IBTL!

[AlCzervik]

9. oh i really, really hope he runs for president!!

The media will tear him apart--rightfully so. Newt Gingrich isn't the disease but he did bring a big new strain of it with him to DC in 94.

[kentuck]

10. Newt is mostly a bull-shitter...

Who pretends to be a deep thinker.

[PistolSteve]

16. I don't think he 'pretends'

Like I said - they way republicans see clinton as a genius (most elected ones do), dems see gingrinch this way

[Little Wing]

13. So what?

[PistolSteve]

19. It's a discussion board - thought I'd discuss.... n/t

[Little Wing]

28. Yes, but

You're falling for the "I'd like to have a beer with this guy" trap.

He's all for America while he's running for something, then the greed kicks in.

Besides, any man who dumps his wife while she's in hospital with cancer is not to be trusted. It's a personality flaw of the highest degree, regardless of his feelings about the US of A

[PistolSteve]

31. I agree about his personal life - but I care more about him as a politician -

.....and as a politician I hope he is NEVER elected again. I wouldn't EVER have a beer with him. He wouldn't be my friend. EVER

[Little Wing]

35. So why the puff piece?

or, as I stated earlier, so what?

[PistolSteve]

38. This is a discussion board - I thought I'd discuss - that's all.

[Dora]

56. Your title is invitation to a flame-war, not a discussion.

Jackassery, every syllable.

[Solly Mack]

15. I'm looking for treasure

never mind me, I'm looking for treasure...

[BikeWriter]

41. Can I look for treasure, too?

[Solly Mack]

57. Of course! Some threads are goldmines

EUREKA!!!!

Some threads offer up priceless treasure in the form of inspired responses. Especially threads that invite flames.

So - I'm looking for treasure. :)

[BikeWriter]

Hee hee hee! You found it here.

:-)

[Boston Critic]

17. If he played fair...

...he might have been the sort of honorable conservative who one could disagree with and remain friends, or whose criticism would help liberals improve their arguments and ideas.

But he didn't. He was a street fighter who only looks better when compared with Tom DeLay. I hope the man never holds office ever again.

[PistolSteve]

21. I agree with you -

But as far as conservative republicans go (not moderates) I think he is genuine. He has his ideas and they are well thought out.

[BikeWriter]

29. Go give him a manly hug.

[Boston Critic]

49. Yes he has ideas...

...and he thinks. This separates him from the knuckledraggers who support "intelligent design" in science classes and think that there's a "war on Christmas."

But as a *person* he is dishonorable and, unfortunately, that taints him beyond repair.

[havocmom]

62. And he is the street fighter who held classes for other GOP pols

where he taught the propaganda methods of Joseph Goebbels. Sure, he is bright, but so was Hitler. ;)

His teachings to a bunch of up and coming GOP pols has been one of the root causes of the mess we are in now. He taught that truth didn't matter as much as repeating what one wants others to believe. He is a BIG part of many problems.

And he is a very LITTLE man. Not only abandoning his cancer victim first wife, but failing to pay support to the point the woman would have had her power shut off had her church not come through to aid her. Yeah, he's a real 'values' poster boy.

Then, showing how shallow and self-centered he is, he chose to shut down the US government via funding for operations in retaliation for the imagined snub of not being allowed to ride up front with Clinton when AF1 took everybody to a state funeral Clinton had to use the time on board to write a eulogy for.

You are right, Boston Critic, the newt doesn't play fair or even possess one iota of empathy.

Leaders need to understand the time to win at all cost and the time to have empathy and play fair for the greater good. Newt is devoid of any true leadership qualities. He is just Rove with the ability to lie well enough in public to BE the candidate instead of RUN the candidate.

Somebody, nudge H2OMan... he shouldn't miss a chance to weigh in on the newt. He can shed lots of light :evilgrin:

And if anybody had access to old back issues of New Yorker Magazine, they ran a really revealing bio of the newt back in fall of 05, I believe it was. I can't find it online and live where there is no chance of finding the magazine, but if you live in a city with a library that has good periodical archives, it is worth the hunt, believe me.

The only thing honest about Newt is his name.

[GoneOffShore]

111. Or if you have a friend who has the DVD

collection of the New Yorker, you'll be able to find it.
That's my Christmas wish this year, along with the update.

[havocmom]

118. Cool! Thanks for the tip! For those of us in the hinterlands, fighting talking points

and blatant lies, such a tool is a gift indeed! :thumpsup:

::havocmom wanders off using her sing-song voice: ... oh, Santa Baby...

[No Exit]

20. I despise Newt Gingrich and I pray that God will protect us from him

and his kind. He is a disgusting piece of trash. One need not even scratch the surface of his public life to see this--just an examination of his private life is enough to show that he is the sort of trash one would not want to associate with.

[No Exit]

23. I kind of like Michael Moore. And Alec Baldwin. And Hillary Clinton.

[PistolSteve]

25. I don't kinda of like them - I LOVE THEM - even Hillary.

[No Exit]

105. Please write to them and ask them what they think of Newt Gingrich.

[BikeWriter]

108. So, uh, you must be a real Democrat then.

[havocmom]

120. LOL BikeWriter shoots and scores...

the crowd goes wild :rofl:

:thumbsup: you made my morning ;)

[Virginia Dare]

24. I don't think he cares and I don't think he's intelligent...

and I don't believe him. So I guess I disagree with just about everything you wrote. There are a few Republicans out there with some intelligence and integrity but he's not one of them.

His "novels" sucked too.

[PistolSteve]

45. Well then you don't know him at all -

If there is one thing you can't say it's that he's not intelligent. Period. Nearly every dem that knows him says that - that's why he is scary.

[Virginia Dare]

51. He has book knowledge...

the way he applies that knowledge is what makes him stupid in my opinion. Just my opinion and I realize it's very different from yours. No way he's making a comeback though, and the fact that he would try further proves his stupidity.

[PistolSteve]

92. "the way he applies that knowledge is what makes him stupid in my opinion"

This is our biggest difference - between me and you and many other DU'ers. Thanks for bringing it up. I would write:

"the way he applies that knowledge is what makes me disagree with completely"

[ProfessorGAC]

125. How Convenient

Your basic premise is that he's REALLY intelligent. If someone disagrees with your assessment, that is the "one thing you can't say." Wow! That's the sort of intellectual dishonesty i expect from the radical right. Not what i expect at DU.
The Professor

[Lex]

26. Sorry, buddy, you've been duped.

I bet you think Dubya is "likeable" too?

:shrug:

[PistolSteve]

34. READ MY POST! I HATE BUSH WITH A PASSION.

I specifically said I HATE Bush. I HATE HIM I HATE HIM I HATE HIM!

I don't hate Newt - I just 100% disagree with him.

[Lex]

48. You hate Bush---why? Newt is cut from the same mold.

Don't kid yourself.

Newt has NO intention of doing any of the reforms he says he is.

Bush lied his ass off about all he was going to do too.

[PistolSteve]

See, that's where I disagree...

I think Newt will do what he says - but I think most of what he says is crap.

I think Bush will do what is best for him and can't possibly think rationally.

[Lex]

65. Well, I have a bridge to sell you in New York

since you believe Newt will look out for anything but his own ass, just exactly like Bush.

[trotsky]

119. Newt had a Republican Congress to enact his "Contract (on) America"

How many items did they pass?

[KoKo]

27. As long as you understand he's as crazy as the NeoCons and uses

"speaking with authority" to cover up his lies about Historical Truth....then it's okay...you can like him for being a successful charletan. :D

[WilliamPitt]

33. I like eggs

Fried eggs.

Scrambled eggs.

All kinds of eggs.

Mmmmm...eggs.

[BikeWriter]

37. I like ham with my eggs. G'morning, Will.

:hi:

[Horse with no Name]

42. I like eggs

With a little cheese, salsa, salt and pepper...

[Midlodemocrat]

68. I hate eggs.

All kinds of eggs. Eggs suck.


Happy Thanksgiving, Will!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

115. I like eggs. I ate eggs for breakfast.

2 eggs over-easy.

Vegetarian "bacon."

English muffin.

Two cups of coffee. Half&half. No sugar.

:9

[Bucky]

36. I agree that he's sincere... most power hungry hypocrites are.

Does he take a rational, thought approach to his lunatic ideas on government? Yes. And in the end he's a deal cutter who you can work with when he's in the opposition to you. He's the type to up the ideological ante just so he can get a better deal out of Congressional opponets when they dicker. He's very good at the game and his style brings around a lot of basically conservatives intellectuals who might otherwise be turned off by the Republican Party's aversion to thoughtful government.

But the reality is that that very "thoughtful" approach to his ideas will keep him from being nominated. Republican power brokers prever platitudes and attitudes over rational discourse, even when the discourse lands on their ideas. They mistrust people who think out loud, as Gingrich does, and just because they're getting a little burned by Bush's outright stupidity approach to leading doesn't meant that they're going to go with a thinker over someone who gives Republican-style "straight talk" (ie, unnuanced assertions). They like to have eggheads like Gingrich chatter about why what's right is right on Fox News, but they don't want a thinker holding the reigns for them.

[PistolSteve]

40. You said it better than I did - thank you

[Ellis Wyatt]

43. I guess

he's probably how the right sees Ted Kennedy. Sure, he's got massive skeletons in his closet that may not make him the best guy, and the vast majority of rational people will disagree with him, but you know where he stands. He truly believes what he thinks, right or wrong, and doesn't waiver.

The other guy that I think a lot of conservatives respect (political integrity-wise) for the same reason, strangely enough, is Barney Frank.

[PistolSteve]

50. Thanks - I think conservatives would respect Feingold if they listened to him...

Feingold is the last guy to play politics. Too bad people think of McCain as a 'straight talker' still.

[devilgrrl]

44. Like the divisive tone Mr. Gingrich created nationwide...

it's been really positive for humanity. :sarcasm:

This guy is the architect of the negativity that's plagued the country in the past 20 years. Yeah, he's great guy. :eyes:

Spending 70+ million tax payer dollars for the investigation of Bill Clinton's blow job while he was boffing his congressional aide on the side. Yeah, he's cool!

[PistolSteve]

54. Wow - again, way NOT to read the post.

I don't think he is a 'great guy' - not at all. But I believe he is genuine and that he cares about the US. I think his 'caring' is terribly wrong however. I think the investigation was a waste (I think the original hearings were good).

[devilgrrl]

60. Yeah, he cared so much he dragged the country through his bullshit!

Bollocks!

He cares about Newt Gingrich - and nothing else!

:nuke:

[PistolSteve]

79. YES - I DISAGREE - OMG DON'T YOU GET IT!

I thought it was STUPID too. My point was that I think the impeachment was mostly personal belief over partisanship. I thought he was WRONG - 100%

Seriously - I cannot HATE someone who really beliefs that Clinton lying under oath about sex should be impeached. I disagree - but I don't hate HIM for it.

[trotsky]

123. What was so "genius" about impeachment?

Clinton came out of that more popular than Republicans.

What was so smart about shutting down the government? Again, it backfired.

Newt's most memorable moments have been absolute failures for both him and his party. And you want to respect him for his intellect? He probably could have accomplished his entire contract and more with different tactics. But he was too stupid and too greedy.

[Dora]

47. What a steaming pile of agitating jackassery.

[BikeWriter]

52. Brava!

[Midlodemocrat]

53. Why did you post this?

Do you think any one of us on this forum gives a rat's ass if you like Newt Gingrich?

NewsFlash, dude. This is DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.

And, Newt Gingrich is an amoral piece of shit.

[PistolSteve]

58. I posted: 1 - to discuss something new, 2 - if he runs, this will be an issue

[Midlodemocrat]

59. It won't be an issue for us here.

WE HATE HIM.


End of story.


:eyes:

[PistolSteve]

67. It WILL be an issue... America isn't DU.

[BikeWriter]

72. Yeah, but you POSTED on DU.

[PistolSteve]

84. So we only talk about things DU believes and not America here?

When I say America - I mean ELECTIONS. I think that's important.

[BikeWriter]

89. It says at the top, Democratic Underground, not I LOVE NEWT!

[Midlodemocrat]

73. Dude, you POSTED this on DU.

Newt Gingrich is slime of the highest order. He served his wife with divorce papers while she was in the hospital being treated for cancer.

He then cheated on his second wife with a much younger woman.

He is despicable. Anyone with that depth of personal failings is disgusting and support for him is disgusting as well.

[BikeWriter]

82. GMTA!

[Dora]

61. You posted because like a moth you are drawn to flame.

:nuke:

[Bucky]

64. You raise good points. Don't be discouraged by the snarky replies

Most DUers can and will disagree with more courtesy than you're getting here. Welcome to DU.

[PistolSteve]

71. Thanks so much - I want people to agree/disagree....

but I was hoping I would treated like a Newt lover / republican.

[Midlodemocrat]

76. Well, you ARE being treated like a Newt lover/ republican

So obviously, you made your point.

[bicentennial_baby]

70. hehe....you *did* say 'flame away', soooooo

:rofl:

[PistolSteve]

74. You are right - I apologize....

In my mind I meant: Post your disagreements. Not, criticize me personally.

[bicentennial_baby]

78. Accuracy is always advisable in these situations...

[BikeWriter]

77. Ain't this a hoot!

:rofl:

[Nickster]

75. I have to disagree with you. I think that Newt is intelligent enough to know that what he advocates

for is wrong for everyone except for him and his partners. He is intelligent and politically savvy enough to realize that he has to package his ideas in a certain manner for them to be palatable. Heck, I've caught myself reading some of his stuff and nodding my head in agreement, then shaking myself when I realize who is talking to me. I have to stand in awe at how he invented the Republican revolution and the Contract with America and didn't back up or push for any of what he advocated for to be implemented after his cabal came into power. So in a nutshell, I do appreciate his ability to weave a political web, but I don't for a second think that he's sincere about what he says or that he'll ever let down his guard to let you or I see what his real beliefs are.

From his personal stories that made it into the media, like leaving his wives. Well, that just tells me a little bit more about his character as a man.

[PistolSteve]

83. Thanks - that's the post I wanted and thanks for not attacking me :)

I think you made a good point when you said you have nodded when listening to him - I do that alot too and then I realize - OMG he's a republican and I disagree with him! He IS very convincing to people that aren't like us (and some who are).

My thought is that he is convincing not because he is a good speaker - but because he is smart and believes it.

I have thought most of his views to be pretty conservative - I don't know of many liberal ones that's why I believe him. I do think that he wants to end corruption however (even after his own problems). I think he has a great respect for the institution. I also think his mind is terribly warped.

I disagree with your last statement however. You can use that logic with Clinton - who's actions were just as bad. Cheating once or twice in my book is horrible - but I think there are other issues in men who do that. But that's another topic

[Midlodemocrat]

86. And there it is. The Clenis. Took you long enough.

:eyes:

[Lex]

90. LOL!

And ye shall know them by their fascination with the Clenis.

[Horse with no Name]

95. I got this gift once from Hickory Farms

It came in this really pretty box.
It was covered in a bright red wax.
Problem was, you could dress it up on the outside as pretty as you wanted, but the minute you got to the core, it was what it was.
A big hunk of stinky cheese.
Have a great day!

[BikeWriter]

93. Clinton's as bad as newt?

[PistolSteve]

107. ON THE PERSONAL LIFE ATTACK LEVEL - WOW

Way to distort something.

Clinton cheated on his wife numerous time with an aide. That is awful. Period. But like most of you, I don't care about that when talking about him politically.

I think it is hypocritical to talk about Newt that way when making an argument against him.

There hasn't been one person here that agrees with Newt or likes him more than Clinton, including myself.

[BikeWriter]

110. Like I said, you're full of it.

[Nickster]

98. No reason to attack you personally at all.

See, I don't freak out because he's a Republican. I freak out because I know it's Newt and Newt is lying to me. I just don't believe he's being sincere at all. He knows how to feign sincerity very well and that will work on the average person.

I see Newt say some things that are intelligent and well thought out, and then I see him on Fox News for instance spewing the latest talking points. Talking points that you KNOW he knows are wrong and full of crap, but yet he keeps going. I remember him holding discussions with Clinton and talking about bi-partisanship, etc etc. He acted like a sensible person, but then his crowd took over and we see which way he went.

I hear about his involvement with the WHIG group, the group that sought out information to attack Valerie Wilson and out her. You don't hear that much from the MSM do you? I'd venture a guess that most people here don't know about Newt's involvement with WHIG.

It's not one thing, but a bunch of things over the years that have formed my opinion of Newt. He knows how to talk a good game, he can talk a GREAT game, but I don't believe a word of it and I think he's intelligent enough to know that he has to say certain things to slip his ideas past us. He's a freaking genius with that.

As for Newt being on the same level as Clinton for his indiscretions, well I don't buy that either. There are a lot more dark secrets in Newt's life that he doesn't want to get out. He'd make Clinton look like a school boy and he apparently left a paper trail on those exploits. That paper trail is why Newt isn't going to run for Prez now or later. He is smart enough to know that stuff hasn't gone away.

[BikeWriter]

113. Troops dying in Iraq because of the GOP make it personal.

[Nickster]

116. Lord knows that I'll convince him by taking a rock to his head eh? n/t

[Jawja]

80. PistolSteve

I will say that in the beginning, I liked Newt Gingrich, too. I loved to hear him talk about history; and so wished that I could have taken classes from him when he was a Professor here in the University system.

However, my opinion changed to a strong NEGATIVE after he became Speaker of the House and presented himself to be a whiny baby and ineffective leader.

I do not hold the same opinion of Newt today as I did before.

[undeterred]

87. I liked the little girl named Newt in the Alien movie.

[Midlodemocrat]

94. OOh, me, too! She was adorable.

[Nickster]

100. Me too.....Mostly.......

[Puglover]

124. Oh dude....

:rofl:

[Nickster]

127. Thank God! Someone actually got it! LoL n/t

[RebelOne]

96. I don't like him because Sean Insannity kisses up to him. n/t

[Lost4words]

99. I am so glad you have something to think about today, good luck with it!

PS did you get your Giraffe while your mate was menstruating?

:woohoo:

[Ilsa]

101. I don't care if he's a genius, Newt is still a fucking prick. nt

[ProfessorGAC]

102. Sorry. Don't Buy It

I've read his position papers. I've heard his speeches. His philosophy and strategies are both purely two dimensional, and that is not the stuff of genius.

He may not be a complete idiot. He may have a unique talent for persuasion. But, so do used car salesmen. (And that's not a knock on car salesmen. My dad did that at the end of his life.)

I think you are ascribing far more depth of intellect to Gingrich than he deserves.
The Professor

[RB TexLa]

103. one thing to the side of your post ie Clinton/Gingrich

That was not the relationship that got things done between Clinton and the republican congress, it was Bill Clinton and Trent Lott. I know you didn't say it was, just that Clinton liked the guy, I'm not so sure there was like between them. I think there was a certain amount of respect outside of what would have been given to their offices, much based on each thinking some of what you think about Gingrich about each other. But in the end it was Lott and Clinton that determined they were going to find where compromises could be made, common ground found and get a few things done with the situation at hand, and were able to work together to do so.

[crispini]

106. LOL! Hope you enjoyed your thread.

You did say "flame away" and that appears to be about half of what you got. Well, welcome to DU! :D

[Patiod]

109. Glad he wastes time fantasizing the South won the civil war

Keeps him from spending time on more potentially destructive pursuits, like another Contract On America

[GoneOffShore]

112. Newt & bullshit

Maybe it's just because I'm an old fart who's been around forever, or that I've always been a natural born sceptic, but the first time I heard Gingrich speak, I knew it was bullshit. No matter what language he cloaks his ideas in, they're still bullshit. And the sad thing is, he believes it and managed to convince a great many people of the 'validity' of that bullshit.

Sorry, I have no respect for his ideas or his personal values, and I hope the Republicans are stupid enough to put him up as a candidate.

[Catherine Vincent]

114. Like him all you want. Just don't vote for him.

edited to add:



:)

[trotsky]

117. Does he still blame Democrats for the Susan Smith incident?

Despite her GOP-leader father raping her? (And no, I don't blame Republicans for Susan Smith.)

Does he still look down on Bill Clinton's morality for having an affair when he himself was diddling an intern at the same time?

Is he smart? Sure, in some ways. But he's a big mean fat old hypocrite. I don't think he wants what is best for the country - his actions during his time in Congress betray that idea. He wants what is best for himself and/or the Republican Party.

[BurtWorm]

122. You're overrating him.

:shrug:

He's a moral slug, a narcissist and a middlebrow thinker. I've heard he has some extraordinary political skills--something about an above average ability to multitask, though not at Clinton's level. Although, he certainly sucked at actually holding power.

But different strokes...

[EstimatedProphet]

129. See, here's your problem...

Gingrich is a very charismatic speaker. I used to think the same things about him before he got real power in 1994 - and thenI saw how he acted afterward. Your post is full of things that say you are falling for his charisma, like how you really, really believe him when he talks about x.It's the charisma you're seeing, not his true beliefs.

[Moderator]

130. locking...

This is flamebait.