US Troops Using Bottled Water To Taunt Iraqi Children

[Jcrowley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9A_vxIOB-I

[Hubert Flottz]

1. Compassion in action...

No wonder God is pissed off at the GOP!

[boolean]

2. Jesus Christ. (nm)

:cry:

[ashling]

3. Winning the hearts and minds

that's disgusting ... and disturbing.

Is their any evidence in that clip of who these morons are?

on edit: can we get this on Olberman?

[lse7581011]

180. Makes Me Proud

To Be An American-NOT!!!!

[derby378]

4. "Support the troops?" Not when they pull this shit on innocent kids

:mad:

[skipos]

11. I hope you don't think all of the troops do this kind of shit.

There were some American soldiers doing illegal, inappropriate and unethical things in World War II too. There's no reason to say "I don't support the troops." (I realize that you didn't say this).

[derby378]

17. I know, I know...

But this incident seems indicative of the hubris of the administration that put these troops in Iraq in the first place.

No, it wasn't intended as a blanket statement. But this is definitely not what I would call "winning hearts and minds."

[Webster Green]

21. WTF are we supporting?

Other than bringing them home.

"Support the troops" is the most ignorant and loaded fucking sentence in the English Language.

I'm sick of hearing it!!

[bloom]

25. I agree

I think "Support the troops" IS the Suggestion that people support the troops (and the administration - "Commander in Chief" and all) No Matter What They Do :grr:

It's messed up.

[wtmusic]

39. Meaningless, empty statement nt

[Seabiscuit]

160. No way, Jose! The phrase is quite meaningful:

"Support our troops" means the Bushies want us to "Support our (their) Oops!" :)

[skipos]

47. The (few) Vietnam vets I know

felt like they "weren't supported" and/or were looked down upon when they came home. Even though I don't respect the war, I do respect the sacrifices they have made. The same applies to Iraq.

I agree that the phrase "support the troops" is overused and abused though.

[Webster Green]

50. I'm a Vietnam veteran...

I didn't support myself in what I was doing.

I was strongly against the war, and let everyone know about it.

Support the troopers. Bring 'em home now.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[INDIA]

83. What an ignorant comment.

The lure of lawlessness? They don't want to come home? Keep your ignorant comments to yourself.

[Recursion]

86. I don't think that's ignorant

It's a rush to survive an attack and some people get addicted to it. Quite a few of the guys I knew, in fact. The "lure of lawlessness" isn't exactly what I'd call it, but I see the point of that phrase: part of the rush is knowing you will do whatever you have to.

[INDIA]

88. Claiming US troops don't want to come back from Iraq?

Because the lawlessness is fun? You don't think that's ridiculous and ignorant? You don't think the majority of this thread is ridiculous?

You're being waaaaay to kind.

-Semper Fi

[Recursion]

103. I don't think "US troops" as a group think anything the same way

Lots of them want to come back now, lots of them don't. Even more of them are conflicted about it.

[Subdivisions]

135. Thanks for being so rude. That's how I want to spend my time...

reading rude comments from you that don't do anything to add to the discussion.

Meh.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

134. A lot of them want to go back because of guilt

They feel guilt that their buddies are still over there while they are at home. It's the type of stuff BushCo. preys on to say "See! They want to be there! It's a volunteer military!"

Al Franken has talked about the comraderie these soldiers feel for one another.

[SammyWinstonJack]

82. Agreed!

[elehhhhna]

57. BRING the Troops home NOW. Yeah...

even the a$$holes.

[elehhhhna]

58. some american mothers are having very mixed feelings about their sons missions --

after seeing this.

[phusion]

5. That's horrible...

:(

[whistle]

6. A nice example of sadist U.S. soldiers, so this is what Donald Rumsfeld

...has wroth on our troops:wtf:

[sabra]

7. that one boy ran several blocks, and didn't even seem to get

the reward of ..... WATER! :mad:

[boolean]

8. Hey watch to the very end. He DOES give it to them!

I guess the kid that ran for 10 blocks for it deserved to get the water...

[phusion]

12. The kid that ran all that way...

is not the one that received the water. At least it looks that way.

[boolean]

13. Just watched it again...The kid DOESN'T GET IT!

Some other group of kids rush in and take it from him.

[EnviroBat]

60. The little kid gets totally recruited BY THE INSURGENCY at the end.

If you watch carefully, the water was dropped to a group of bystanders who took it. After all of that effort. That little guy ran farther than I probably ever have. The "good" were doing. Stay the course... Fuck it.

[NotGivingUp]

9. i feel sick. why on earth are some people like this???

[wtmusic]

10. Is there any wonder

why their Dads are snipers? Jeebus.

[dubykc]

15. None whatsoever!

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

20. I didn't see the video

and I can't bear the thought of these guys taunting children, but wishing for the death of one of them, strikes be as just more ugly rage.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tabasco]

31. So you want this soldier to get killed.

You're worse than the asshole soldier.

[cali]

32. Nah, just about

on the same level.

[Poll_Blind]

33. It's a free country. You're welcome to your opinion. n/t

PB

[Hobarticus]

38. I'll "third" that opinion. n/t

[Beelzebud]

42. How about just make him run for a mile then give him no drink.

[wtmusic]

43. It goes a little beyond that.

I'd say leave him in Iraq. He can live in the mess he's creating.

[Catherine Vincent]

46. He didn't say that. He wished the soldier to come back with one less arm.

But that's not cool either.

[Ignis]

71. Right, his "thought crime" is much worse!

Who cares what war crime was committed in our name by the US soldier in the video? Saying bad things about the troops is clearly one BAZILLION times worse.

:eyes:

[Ms. Clio]

139. yeah, it's amazing

and then these are the people who often blather on and on about "political correctness." The irony just completely escapes them.

[Captain Hilts]

16. Neat that the kid that's run the farthest doesn't get it. nt

[mtnester]

18. The one holding out the water and taunting is a supervisor

listen to how he is addressed by the videographer

I want to know who these jack off's are...and I want them OUT of the armed services NOW

[butterfly77]

68. There are plenty more where he came from...

[INDIA]

84. "supervisor"?

I wasn't aware the Army had the rank of "supervisor." Is that like a Sergeant?

[mtnester]

89. WHATEVER pay grade he is...I went with the generic "supervisor"

becuse the guy has enough rank that the videographer kept refering to him as Sir...repeatedly...and I was unable to get a gander at his insignia.

If you came in here to split hairs...fine. sheesh

So YEAH it's like a Seargent.

[INDIA]

92. He's not saying "sir"

There is no way that's an officer. He's saying "sergeant", which you say it with kind of quickly sounds like "sarent" or "sarnt".

[mtnester]

95. Sir is exactly what he is saying...

twice

[INDIA]

96. Wrong.

Its sergeant. Said quickly sounds like "sarnt" or even "sar." You'll just have to trust me on this one. I probably have a little more military knowledge than you, judging from your "supervisor" comment. Not trying to put you down, it's just a fact.

[mtnester]

105. Suit yerself.

Supervisor was a generic word everyone can understand. Unlike CMSGT, which was my spouse's RANK, paygrade E9, USAF, when we split up some time ago....sometimes that happens to folks. It was his dad's rank when he retired also.

Enjoy your facts.

[rateyes]

169. Damned straight...

dishonorable discharges for all of them!

[Solly Mack]

19. sickening

and they thought it was just so funny

And to think some folks believe there is "victory" to be gained from this

[Norquist Nemesis]

23. Glad that's on film!

I'm betting the Pentagon will point a finger at A) One bad apple no longer in country or B) Private security contractor they have no jurisdiction over

Jerks.

[KansDem]

24. We used to throw them candy and gum. Now we don't throw them water.

The difference between 1945 and 2006, I guess...

[Raiden]

26. Despicable. Just despicable. N/T

[marmar]

27. And these jerks are apparently too stupid to realize that just about everything...

gets caught on video these days....Or maybe they just don't care. :grr:

[mtnester]

28. That is the first time I have EVER sent a video out to a news organization

there are no words to describe how deplorable this is. Off to KO it went...Worst Persons(s) in the World at the VERY least

[RubyDuby in GA]

52. I sent it to my two idiot senators demanding to know is this how we're winning

their hearts and minds? I also said I want written responses to my question.

We'll see if I get it.

[mtnester]

55. Good on you! I have DeWine for a few more weeks, and Voinabitch

Soon...Sherrod Brown...I can hardly wait

[a la izquierda]

80. I'd have thought you lived in Oklahoma...

but then saw your sig line. My senators are probably worse than yours. Inhoff and Coburn are the absolute pits. :puke:

[RubyDuby in GA]

166. Ha! I'd say it was a toss up as to who has the worst

I'll thumb wrestle ya for top honors :P

[a la izquierda]

176. You're on! n/t

[Crankie Avalon]

29. Lowlife cracker thugs...how many more of these "purely isolated bad apples" are we going to see? n/t

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

30. One word: Despicable n/t....

[in_cog_ni_to]

34. OMG....I'm speechless.

:cry: How cruel.:cry:

[wtmusic]

35. Freeper posts from YouTube:

gotta have some fun over there being shot at and stuff by those kids dad. GO AMERICA

Tijuana??? WTF the mexicans made u run? what did they show u? Tequila??? lol

LOL man it sucked in Iraq

lol That was one fast as kid! poor kid, he still didnt get the water. lol

LOL You can't blame them. It does get boring in Iraq.

Now that kid will be too tired to kill his own people with a coward bomb.

First off its assumed these kids must be dying of thirst. Proof? Where are the parents to warn them of the Evil? As kids we ran after fire engines going out on call. Were we thristy? Or was it something strange and shiny that stirred the Pavlovian effect in us?
Post-WW2 US soldiers in Germany threw bubble gum at my parents when they were young, but not everyone always managed to snag some. So?

the same kids were throwing rocks at them the day before

Run little phucker, run! Haha!

Hahaha, kid didn't even get the water! Stupid kid.

way to make servicemen look like dicks

yall iraqi fuckers are deprived of water , and its YOUR and YOUR only fault, your way of life is your own grave

meanhwile the same little fuckers are throwing rocks at trucks 24 hours a day. fuck em, i would have filled the bottles with chlorine

This is what being in Iraq was all about. Believe me, after a year of being there and having them shit all over you, you repay the favor and then some. What you wont see is that those same fucking kids will take tennis ball sized rocks and hurl them at soldiers while they're on patrol. Fuck those kids.

Fucking hilarious.

stupid smelly little arab muslim future terrorist dogs...the soldiers should have put the vehicle in reverse and ran that scum over. why waste precious water rations on Arab Muslim Nazis?

Go USA Go. Uncanny how some of you cant remember 9/11 and those other tragic torturing/ head cuttings, you ingnorant cunts.

[phusion]

36. wow...

There are some cruel people in this country.

And what kind of logic is that about the fire engines, etc.? :eyes:

[wtmusic]

37. You can expect some of these responses

but 20% or more fall in this category. WTF have we come to?

[butterfly77]

69. It is more like...

50 to 60% and this has always been here we have a lot of pretenders in this country...

[JHB]

72. Where have we come to? Or where have we failed to get away from?

You know these guys are just aching to bring back the days where they could get away with lynching anybody they didn't take a shine to.

[RubyDuby in GA]

54. "yall iraqi fuckers are deprived of water , and its YOUR and YOUR only fault, your way of life is

your own grave"

Right...it has nothing to do with US bombs taking out their water supply.

Jesus Christ freepers sure are ignorant. Really makes you want to rethink the concept of legalized sterilization. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to reproduce.

[wtmusic]

61. After reading some of that

you get a true understanding of how the Holocaust could happen.

[Kelly Rupert]

79. It's the desert-ist agenda in action.

[Maraya1969]

62. I was reading those posts and could not believe the number of people

who thought this was funny or good. Some people are so full of hate.

Visualize peace everyone. We really need it.

:cry:

[Catherine Vincent]

40. That's so sad to do that!

And the last little boy to keep up didn't even get the water. :(

[Ms. Clio]

41. New Survey: Iraqis Want a Speedy U.S. Exit -- and Back Attacks on Our Forces

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003410658

[RubyDuby in GA]

44. How can anyone be so mean to a child?

What a bunch of flaming assholes! And they wonder why the ordinary people have taken to insurgency against them? Hmm...I wonder...Maybe because they are sick and tired of being taunted, tortured and traumatized in their own country??? Yeah, I think that's it.

[wtmusic]

45. This is how power corrupts.

Truly disgusting.

[dipsydoodle]

48. Sooooooooo disgusting

I'm guessing the snipers keep an eye open for such appalling antics.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beelzebud]

51. What we see in this video are insurgants being CREATED by US....

Tell me those kids don't fucking HATE America right about now....

[sakabatou]

53. Sick fucks

[Xenotime]

56. This is *'s finest. They should be punished for this.

[Duncan Grant]

59. There is no justification for this monstrous behavior.

These men deserve to have this publicized as widely as possible.

[beachmom]

63. I can't even get it to load -- was it removed from YouTube? n/t

[beachmom]

67. I got it to work -- I kept clicking until it brought me over to the YouTube

site, and then I was able to view it. I haven't processed what I've seen -- one thing is for sure; Iraq is on a different planet than us.

[majorjohn]

127. self - Deleted..

***Meant to reply to original post.***

[Johnny Appleseed]

64. taking forever to load... and I have a fast connection (nt)

[RandiFan1290]

65. Try this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9A_vxIOB-I&eurl=

[GETPLANING]

66. Let's all send this clip to Hannity.com,

see how he spins it.

[AIJ Alom]

70. Send this to everyone you know and then ask, are we really winning

over hearts and minds ? Or does this stupid act just build upon Abu Ghraib and the gang rape-murder of a 14 year old and her family. Simply pathetic that this is even posted, in all likelihood for laughs.

[AIJ Alom]

74. And the sad part is, that this moron who doesn't even represent the

true spirit of the American soldier, more likely that of his president, posted this for laughs but will instead serve as a propoganda tool for the insurgency. Heckuva job retard, your medal of freedom is probably in the mail.

[Minnesota_Lib]

77. Yes, the fact that they posted this as if it is acceptable and funny is the really pathetic part.

[Karenina]

98. These kid will be returning to your shores

I certainly hope sooner rather than later. The behaviours exhibited in the video will NOT magically disappear. Such behaviour has been RAMPANT in Iraq for the last 3 years...

[The Stranger]

73. SUPPORT THE TROOPS!

What, no more "Support the Troops" thread rallies on DU?

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AIJ Alom]

76. Somebody find this moron's platoon leader, and make him and

and his cameraman walk the entire length of street the video recorded and pass out water and an apology to each and every child.

[MGD]

181. That was the platoon leader. The "cameraman" called him sir twice.

I had an asshole platoon leader when I was in Bosnia that would torture small animals with a lighter for fun to while away his spare time. I shit you not. He had a wife too believe it or not.

[judaspriestess]

81. they are just innocent children

why taunt an innocent child who wants water? Oh yes, the Iraqis are soooooo liberated aren't they? how wrong of that soldier to do that. I hope he gets properly reprimanded.

[BlueStorm]

85. This is sick, just plain fucking sick...

I have an empathy thing. I could actually feel the thirst that those poor kids have felt while running. And that one kid didn't even get the water.

And those soldiers just laughed at their pain, making them run more and more. These soldiers thought it was entertaining to torture these kids, and yes it was torture no matter how you spin it. They cause pain in these kids.

I'm sorry but I don't support the troops, not these assholes that do shit like this. Yes I realize that there are some good soldiers out there and by God I feel sorry for them.

Blue

[INDIA]

87. This thread is DISGUSTING.

Okay, it was a stupid and mean for the soldier in the video to taunt the kid. I can agree with that. He's probably a dumb 19 year old private trying to impress his buddies.

But some of the posts here are absolutely despicable. He made some little kid run after a truck for god sakes, and posters here are claiming that, among other things...

1. He should die.
2. He should lose an limb.
3. It's understandable that the kid and his family will become insurgents and kill troops....over this.
4. Troops "want" to remain in Iraq because its fun to be "lawless."
5. A "war crime" was committed.
6. US troops no longer distribute food and supplies to children like they did in WWII, based one one clip of some jerkoff taunting some kids.
7. It's not just "bad apples", much of the military is rotten.
8. US Army soldiers are "mercenaries."


Give me a friggin break. Why is there so much outrage over this clip, and every time someone posts an article about a car bomb going off and killing 20 Iraqis, it gets about 10 posts and dies?

There is more rage toward a US soldier playing a mean prank than a suicide bomber blowing up a marketplace and ACTUALLY KILLING Iraqi civilians.

Absolutely ridiculous.

[AIJ Alom]

90. Consider this...Abu Ghraib, Gang Rape of a 14 year old, and this

video. What do they have in common ? Insurgency propoganda material and this dope just handed it to them, thinking it's oh so funny. I can understand he's 19, but I hope we still train our soldiers to behave better than as if they were stateside. I mean has the rule of discipline fallen off that sharply?

Guaranteed, you will see this in an insurgency video. A video which will then inspire a radical Iraqi to take up arms and then kill/wound another one of our soldiers. And frankly my friends in the marines and family in the air force and navy have enough crap they have to deal with on the ground over there. They don't need a few more shiite or sunnis gunning for them over some moron's prank.

[AIJ Alom]

91. I agree with you though, certain individuals are disgusting with their

thoughts of revenge, murder, and loss of limb and frankly they are probably capable of similar dumb acts.

[INDIA]

94. We're in complete agreement.

It was a dumb move, made even more dumb by videotaping it and PUTTING IT ON THE INTERNET. (D'OH!)

But it was not a "warcrime", nor does that soldier deserve bodily harm. The entire vibe of this thread is just sickening to me. No wonder the military still votes repuke, even after * put them in this Iraq mess.

Meanwhile someone posted an article about 3,700 Iraqis being killed this month by insurgents/terrorists. It's cruising at about 10 posts right now. Unbelieveable.

On edit: Although I wouldn't compare this action to Haditha or Abu Ghraib. If some Iraqi becomes an insurgent because of THIS video, then fuck them. They were going to become one anyway.

[tkmorris]

102. We hold our soldiers to a higher standard

Seriously, this is a surprise to you? I don't agree with some of the comments on this thread, in particular the ones that were deleted wishing bodily harm on the taunting soldier, but I am not as willing to excuse their behavior as you seem to be either.

I don't think anyone will become an insurgent over this. However an incident like this does illustrate the widespread disregard for the welfare of the Iraqi people displayed by our troops. And yes, that HAS been the norm rather than the exception. This is mostly fostered by the attitude inherent in their commanding officers, and passed down to the troops via the orders they are tasked with carrying out. If their officers demanded they treat Iraqis humanely they would, but instead they order them to treat the Iraqis as animals, not worthy of courtesy or consideration, or even of life itself.

The military I served in would not have tolerated this kind of thing. It dishonors the uniform and my country. MY country. I demand better.

[Stargazer09]

163. This goes all the way to the top

I wholeheartedly agree with you, tkmorris.

My husband and I are both military, and we are both interested in military history. My husband and I were discussing the gang rape case the other day, and he said that things like that happen only when the leadership encourages it, either directly or indirectly. Think about it. Even the so-called "Commander in Chief" has absolutely no respect for the Iraqi people. So his military commanders don't, either. Their subordinates don't, and so on. It all trickles down to the leaders in the field, who allow their troops to play "games" like this or do something even worse.

The soldier who took the plea bargain in the gang rape case said that he absolutely hated Iraqis, and that was part of what led him to participate in the rape and the murders. Granted, I can't argue too much with what he said; I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something along the lines that the Iraqis would smile at the Americans right before pulling out guns and shooting the soldiers in the face. I think that anybody seeing too much of that would start to lose their humanity, especially when they aren't getting the proper support from their leaders. NO, I am not excusing his behavior! But I do understand that our military members are under stresses that those of us who haven't been there will never understand.

Even in peacetime, military members have done stupid things to embarrass our country. Think about all of the times you've heard about our military men overseas raping young girls just outside of the military bases (it seemed to happen a lot in Japan). And the news didn't just report that the perpetrators were Americans. They made sure that everyone knew that the aggressors were American military members.

You are going to have stupid people committing stupid acts of violence, during peacetime and during wartime. Unfortunately, some of those stupid people will happen to be in the military, and they make the entire military look bad. We do hold our military to a higher standard, as well we should, but people need to be aware of the fact that not all military members condone what their compatriots do.

[beachmom]

97. Agreed, some of the rhetoric is over the top.

Although we have a couple incidences of atrocities, it appears that the U.S. troops are less the problem in Iraq than the Sunni insurgents and the Shi'ite militias. There are cases where people get mistakenly shot or on purpose shot, but mostly, people fear other Iraqis more. It seems the biggest complaint about our troops was its failure to provide law and order (due to a bad policy from the start). And given the occupation which is an extreme annoyance that has no silver lining, this is why Americans are disliked.

I also agree with you that the soldiers are young and they're just being stupid. ALL wars involve soldiers acting stupidly sometimes. It's just that this one has failed and has sunk our reputation all over the world.

[INDIA]

99. You are 100% right.

But be careful, you might disrupt some people's fantasy worlds that they live in. You know, where US=Bad, enemies of US=good. Only US troops are killing Iraqis, etc. etc. I thought some of the rhetoric would calm down after we won congress, boy was I wrong.

[loveandlight]

100. the rage is because all of it is our responsibility

I have rage against these kinds of actions of our troops, but it points out even more the absolute absurdity of what we are doing there. We have no mission or purpose but to cause chaos and death and insult to the people of a country which we have no business being in. You want to be outraged about the suicide bomber, the car bomber? Why are they doing this and why are they there? There were no suicide bombs before we came in and destroyed their country. We have no business being there, pulling these kind of pranks, and causing the chaos that allows suicide bombers to exist. So yeah, the rage is against this government for putting us there and against the soldiers who have become part of the problem by doing this and other sick behavior that now seems to be the norm more than not over there. The whole thing is disgusting and sickening and we should get out now!!

[Karenina]

111. Great post, Loveandlight!

Welcome to DU! :toast:

[Ms. Clio]

112. oh, I have a feeling India3 believes in "the mission"

[Little Wing]

108. Amen

The shrill overreaction is 100x more troubling than the video.

If the kids HATED the troops they wouldn't be running after troop water.

Yes, it was a dickish thing to do, but the majority of this thread needs a Xanax.

[Ms. Clio]

114. I love watching the usual suspects come out to defend this

we're still missing a couple, though.

[Nostradammit]

172. I'm surprised you've ever heard of the guy in your avatar

You display none of his humanity.

[Little Wing]

174. You're cool

:eyes:

[Ms. Clio]

110. only some of the posts in this thread are disgusting

yours.

[INDIA]

120. Only mine?

Not the posts that wish harm on US soldiers, label troops as war crimnals and mercenaries? Claim that the majority of the military is rotten? Well I guess we know where you stand don't we? Excuse me while I :puke:

If calling people out for making hateful, ignorant posts makes me "disgusting" Clio, then I guess I'm fine with that.


Oh, and I don't believe in "the mission" either, whatever the hell that means. Yet another freeper accusation, *sigh*. Why are middle of the road DU'ers with common sense called freepers, while idiots who claim that US troops are mercenaries and rotten warcriminals given a free pass?


Enjoy reading all the troop bashing posts, I hope they make you happy inside.

[Ms. Clio]

121. it's not troop bashing, no matter how hysterically you call it that

Sy Hersh has said that he has never seen such vicious behavior by U.S. troops in any previous conflict. And why not; just look at their commanders. You can romanticize this as much as you want. Thirty years from now history professors will be teaching the real and sickening truth about this war.

I would use the hide thread option if these threads upset you so much.

[INDIA]

128. It's not troop bashing?

Uh, yes it is, by any reasonable standard it is. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. If not, read the entire thread again. It'll sink in eventually. Painting some ridiculous broad brush accusation based on a two minute youtube video is absurd.

BTW: Oh gee, Sy Hersh said it? Well it must be true! Gee golly, I mean....Sy Hersh!!!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

131. No, it's not troop bashing.

In fact, anybody who actually cares about the troops would denounce the bastard.

[INDIA]

136. Oh, surprise surprise, it's you.

I did denounce the guy. By saying what he did was dumb and mean. Read my previous posts. I'm taking issue with the posters who take the actions of one and paint an ignorant broad brush assertion about all US servicemen, or wish harm on a stupid kid doing a stupid prank.

This thread is rampant with examples of that. Feel free to read.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

137. I did read it.

And surprise, surprise. More of your apologizing.

[INDIA]

140. Yup. I'll apologize for the military ALL DAY LONG.

They are in a rough situation due to the idiocy of their civilain commanders, and when they are being bashed by ignorant people based on the actions of individuals, I will defend. If thes "rotten apple" incidents are so prevalant, why are they on the cover of TIME every time they happen?


Have fighter jets been replaced by hot air balloons yet? You know, since you're the military expert and everything.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

141. Obviously.

:rofl:

[INDIA]

142. Cheers. n/t

[Clarkie1]

151. I agree with you much of this thread is childish. nt

[mzmolly]

152. Agreed. Also the soldier did eventually toss the water bottle out of the truck.

Not to make light of what happened, but it's certainly not "huge" in the scope of war. The larger issue is that the people of Iraq are still, obviously without adequate supplies of drinking water.

[Gwerlain]

93. Despicable. n/t

[Jcrowley]

104. I wonder

how many of these "bad apple" incidents have occurred to date. It seems there are reports weekly and that's only what gets through the filters. Anyone who thinks this is only an isolated incident isn't watching world events carefully. And that's only on the surface beneath the skin it is much more nihilistic. Conrad covered much of this in "Heart of Darkness" but now it's a fluffed up form in the real life video arcade.

"Support our troops - who can be against that, or yellow ribbons - who can be against that?

Anything that's totally vacuous and diverts, after all what does it mean to be in favor of .. suppose somebody asks, do you support the people in Iowa, can you say I support them or no I don't support them. It's not even a question it doesn't even mean anything. And that's the point of public relations slogans like support our troops is that they don't mean anything, they mean as much as whether you support the people in Iowa.

Of course there was an Issue -- the issue was do you support our policy but you don't want people to think about the issue that's the whole point of good propaganda, you want to create a slogan that nobody is gonna be against and I suppose everybody will be for because nobody knows what it means because it doesn't mean anything, but it's crucial value is it diverts your attention from a question that does mean something. Do you support our policy and that's the one you're not allowed to talk about." - Noam Chomsky

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ms. Clio]

115. here's a free hit off the clue bong for you

calling people idiots and trolls is a personal attack and against the rules.

Otherwise, I would already have done it.

[Little Wing]

116. You just did it to me not 10 minutes ago

or is 'usual suspect' slipping under YOUR threshold of personal attack?

[Ms. Clio]

117. No, there are "usual suspects" who support the war

do you think of yourself as a troll?

[Little Wing]

118. I don't support the war

Where did you get that idea?

Regardless, you're lumping me in with some fantasy group of yours, and it's weak.

[INDIA]

124. She's allowed to!

She has 1000 posts! By the way, "usual suspects"???:rofl: You wish I supported this war, that would make your inane fantasy that much easier to argue.

Let me make this clear...

I hold our troops in high regard.
There have been some inexcusable fuckups by some bad individuals, (Haditha, Abu Gharaib), but the VAST VAST VAST majority are excellent human beings and I WILL DEFEND THEM FROM IGNORANT MORONS who claim they are something they are not. That does not make me a troll. It means I'm not on the wacky fringes, but that does not preclude me from being a solid Dem.

*whew*, I said it, there.

On edit: Gee, while you were going nuts with the alert button, you forgot the guy saying all US troops in Iraq are warcriminals. Is that against the rules? Or do you agree with him?

[Ms. Clio]

125. yes, take a deep breath

The truth will out. I doubt you have ever read any of the primary sources from the Vietnam War. This will be as bad, if not worse.

[INDIA]

130. And you base this ridiculous assertion on..........

.................................................................what?

[Ms. Clio]

132. you don't know what a primary source is, do you?

Thought as much.

[INDIA]

138. Pfft. I'm done with this. n/t

[Altean Wanderer]

107. Sadly kick and recommend n/t

[intaglio]

109. What this indicates is a loss of control by the Officers & NCOs

There is a cure for this, but I think that it is beyond the ability or desire of the US command to implement it. The ultimate responsibility for this disgraceful behaviour lies with the general staff; for it is they who have let the men of the US Army become, not a disciplined professional force, but rather a rabble.

The first steps toward solving this problem should begin with the following:

The trooper(s) directly involved should be disciplined and discharged;
Other troopers there should loose pay;
Any NCOs present should be reduced to the ranks;
If there are any Officers there they should be dismissed with dishonour;
If no officer is present then the Lieutenant of the unit should be asked to resign his/her commission;
The NCO cadre of the unit should loose seniority;
The Captain of the parent unit (if not present) unit should be reduced in rank and a black mark recorded;
The whole unit should be removed from combat and undergo re-training.

Ultimately the whole of the Officer cadre of the US Army, Air Force, Marines and Navy should be purged

[Little Wing]

119. Why don't you just line them all up and shoot them, while you're at it?

Fucking hell, going overboard a little?

[Solon]

143. How about jailtime instead?

5 years in Leavenworth should take the edge off these assholes, in this particular instance.

[Little Wing]

145. For what? Exactly?

Being an asshole isn't a criminal offense.

Yet.

[Solon]

146. No, but abusing children is a criminal offense...

It could be easily argued that denying these kids easy access to a life sustaining resource, like water, or making them do things to get it, constitute abuse.

[Tom Joad]

159. Need our support for resistance and healing, not condemnation.

[Solon]

161. WTH are you talking about, these assholes in the video...

or all soldiers? If its these particular assholes, fuck that, I don't want them in society, prison for them, last thing I want is for them to be living next door to me OR MY NEPHEW. If you are talking about all soldiers, then those that DIDN'T commit actions like this need to be brought home, NOW, and given free and mandatory counseling with licensed shrinks to help them through PTSD and re-adjust to society.

[Conan_The_Barbarian]

122. An asshole will always be an asshole

It doesn't matter how you dress him or what responsibilities you give him!

[majorjohn]

123. I'm sad... and pissed!!!

The poor Iraqi children don't have water, and the soldiers find that funny? Yet, they're humiliating them even more? How messed up is that?

[pdrichards114]

126. This is supposed to be a forum to express opinions

I didn't attack personally. I was in the military, I served my time. You can disagree with my op., but what these soldiers specifically did is wrong. Just like what our military is doing is wrong. I don't see how we can get bent out of shape about water without getting irate and outraged about depleted uranium. So call me a troll or an idiot if it makes you feel better I've heard worse. But at least argue the points. Convince me why I should support the troops doing all these horrible things. Show me the error of my logic, I will listen.

[INDIA]

133. You said they are warcriminals.

That's ridiculous. They were ordered to go there by their insane commanders in the White House. You don't need to support the mission to support the unfortunate predicament these guys are in.

Our military doesn't do what they want, they do what they are ordered by elected civilian officials. That's where the fault lays, not with rank and file joe trying to make money for college.

To claim they are guilty of warcrimes is what I have a problem with. Sorry.

[Solon]

144. I disagree, at least in specific cases...

Soldiers are only supposed to follow LAWFUL orders. If a commanding officer orders you to shoot unarmed civilians, its your obligation to disobey them, if you don't, you will end up in jail for murder. "Just following orders" isn't a defense. For example, during the Vietnam war, a LOT of U.S. troops used this as a defense, and it failed to work. In United States v. Keenan, the accused (Keenan) was found guilty of murder after he obeyed in order to shoot and kill an elderly Vietnamese citizen. This even includes orders from a President of the United States, there was a case, in 1799, as found here:

The first recorded case of a United States Military officer using the "I was only following orders" defense dates back to 1799. During the War with France, Congress passed a law making it permissible to seize ships bound to any French Port. However, when President John Adams wrote the order to authorize the U.S. Navy to do so, he wrote that Navy ships were authorized to seize any vessel bound for a French port, or traveling from a French port. Pursuant to the President's instructions, a U.S. Navy captain seized a Danish Ship (the Flying Fish), which was en route from a French Port. The owners of the ship sued the Navy captain in U.S. maritime court for trespass. They won, and the United States Supreme Court upheld the decision. The U.S. Supreme Court held that Navy commanders "act at their own peril" when obeying presidential orders when such orders are illegal.

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm

Do I think all soldiers participating in the war are war criminals by default? No. However, if soldiers start obeying orders that involve killing unarmed civilians, intimidating children, etc. those ARE war crimes, and they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[truedelphi]

157. Well, one argument that could be made is that we do not

know their state of mind right before they took to taunting the kids.

Maybe they lost a buddy just hours prior to this - hell, maybe they lost a bunch of buddies. Kids put the IED's together over there sometimes.
Kids put the assembled IED's on the roadsides - sometimes.

This is why I don't support any war - because once you put people into such gruesome situations, they can become enraged monsters.

My dad saw some terrible things in WWII. One time his platoon marched into a small village in Germany to rescue 4,000 Polish prisoneers. The Germans burned the prisoners alive right before the American troops got there.

He always felt terrible that there had been no way to save those people. But he also felt that if the war had dragged on, he himself might have become as deranged as the German or Germans who torched that building..

War is a derangement. Ask your fellow countryman and woman to go to war, and you are asking for their souls to descend to Hell and start lunching on Babies.

[majorjohn]

129. Something to think about

Iraq, a country which has the world's 3rd largest oil reserve or something close, you'd think that the people living there should atleast be able to get some basic necessities, but the Iraqis seem to be living in poverty.. exactly the same way it was when Saddam was in power, and all the country's wealth went to his bank account. So what exactly changed? The way those children were running, you'd think they were running after a gold bar; and all it was, was a bottled water. That's so sad. Where's all the oil going? and what are we even doing there?

[Jcrowley]

153. Your analysis

of recent Iraqi history is sorely lacking. Under Saddam, a vicious tyrant installed by western interests, the Iraqi people while not rich in our sense of wealth, but then again neither are folks in W. Va. and Bridgeport (get my drift?) had it much better than they do now and you must certainly recall the brutal sanctions that decimated that nation.

Live is MUCH worse now for virtually every Iraqi. If you want to know where the oil is going, or not going look to the folks who are "controlling" it for the answer.

[Ms. Clio]

154. This is what is happening to the oil

"A further $22 billion of Iraq’s own money, derived mainly from oil, has been largely squandered, with little scrutiny."

Stolen. Plundered. Pillaged. Mongols in business suits.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2460034,00.html

[Jcrowley]

147. A snapshot

American dignity
So far, what have the US invasion and occupation of Iraq led to - other than a staggering bloodbath, killing fields galore and a secret landscape of detention centers and torture chambers?

As a start, an already badly battered Iraqi economy was turned into a looting ground for Bush administration crony corporations and thoroughly wrecked. (Tall Afar, for instance, is considered a US "success" story when it comes to security, though part of the city is now a "ghost town" of rubble, and unemployment there is estimated at almost 70%.)

The Iraqi education system is in tatters; the medical system in ruins; basic social and urban services almost undeliverable; oil production barely up to pathetic prewar levels (if present-day figures are even real, which is in doubt); the position of women now disastrous; child malnutrition on the rise; and well over a million Iraqis have fled their homes in a country of only 26 million people.

In addition, national sovereignty has been destroyed; the national police system is on its last legs, its ranks well stocked with men loyal to various murderous Shi'ite militias; a Sunni insurgency rages ever more violently; a Kurdish form of independence seems ever more likely (though inconceivable to neighboring states); corruption is rampant; and a central government, whose sway doesn't reach most streets in its capital, is now considered "the least accountable and least transparent regime in the Middle East". (The Interior Ministry alone "reportedly employs at least 1,000 ghost employees, whose wages amount to more than $1 million a month".)

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=141003

[William769]

148. Monkey see, monkey do.

Yes mr. Bush pun intended.

[Clarkie1]

149. Well, the kid got some excercise and got the water.

I didn't see anything I would say rises to the level of "cruelty." I don't know how many bottles of water the soldeirs had, but one lucky guy got one.

This wasn't necessarily the smartest thing to do tempting a kid to run down the street after a bottle of water, but cruel? Hurting someone is cruel, Abu Gharib was cruel. This was just in bad taste at best. If he just had one bottle, he shouldn't have let the kid run so far. I guess in their mind they were thinking a fair way to determine what kid got the prize would be to see who was willing to run the farthest for it. Maybe not smart, but certainly not cruel.

I don't know if water was actually in short supply in that area or not...I suspect it wasn't or a lot of the adults would be running for it. It may have been just a kind of game to the kid...see who can get the fancy bottle. Hard to tell. In any case, I'd like to see a lot more aid going to the Iraqis so that a bottle of water isn't something to chase after.

[Jcrowley]

155. Taunting children is not cruel?

In Arab culture water is the ultimate precious element, more valuable even than gold, what those soldiers were doing was an ultimate form of mockery. The older Iraqi boys clearly understood that.

"Want some water? Water? Keep Running. Here. Here. C'mon you're almost there..."

"C'mon. C'mon."

"He's chasin' it man. And he still didn't get it."

Laughing and taunting all the way. Very cruel.

[Clarkie1]

156. I'll have to watch the video again.

I think though it's hard to tell if this was taunting or not from the context. It's hard to tell if the kids were just having fun running after the vehicle, or if they were really begging for water. Irregardless, it isn't something the soldiers should be doing.

[Nostradammit]

173. Oh for the love of God!!!

The kid just burned up a bunch of precious calories and DID NOT get the water.


You think he would have run like that for a fucking "fancy bottle"?!!!



I can't even find the words...

[Clarkie1]

177. I think it's possible the kids were just thinking it of a kind of game, yes.

Run after the big truck after the fancy water bottle, it's the kind of thing kids do. I can't tell from the video if the kids were really thirsty or not. It seemed like the soldeirs were trying to make it a fair contest, but unfortunately the one who ran the farthest didn't get it.

Of course, the soldiers were not behaving professionally and should be reprimanded, but there are much bigger issues in the grand scheme of things.

Some of the overblowm responses in this thread to the incident are beyond belief.

[Little Wing]

178. There's an amazing amount of presumptions in this thread, it's almost like watching

Fox News.

We don't know when the video was made, or where it was made. That's important.

We don't know if they just got done delivering 100 bottles or water, or if they do this every day, or frankly anything about the circumstance.

Still, in the shrill, overreacting minds of some, being an ass is now a jailable offense, or a certain death sentence to others.

[Clarkie1]

184. Great points.

Because we know so little, it's hardly even beneficial to discuss.

It's mind-boggling that with so many tragic, large problems in Iraq, this thread gets so much attention.

[Bluebear]

185. PS the child did **NOT** get the water.

If it matters.

[Jcrowley]

150. Iraq: The Hidden War

Iraq: The Hidden War

Iraq: The Hidden Story shows the footage used by TV news broadcasts, and compares it with the devastatingly powerful uncensored footage of the aftermath of the carnage that is becoming a part of the fabric of life in Iraq.

Prod/ Dir: Christian Trumble; Exec Prod: Stephen Phelps; Prod Co: Zenith Entertainment Ltd - 2006

Images of Iraq dominate our TV news bulletins every night but in this film, Channel 4 news presenter Jon Snow, questions whether these reports are sugar-coating the bloody reality of war under the US-led occupation

- Warning -

This video contains images that should only be viewed by a mature audience

Run Time 49 Minutes

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13420.htm

[Tom Joad]

158. Work with the troops to resist this war. Keep their humanity. And ours.

Clinton continued the attack on the people of Iraq started by Bush 1 and that led to lack of clean water, food shortages, and such. So are we really better than these troops? Sanctions killed hundreds of thousands, and bush's war is just an extension of what began decades ago. So spare us illusion of moral superiority, and support an immediate withdraw from the brutal, illegal, immoral war against the people of Iraq.

We share in the crimes committed against Iraq, we must work together to end it. Do not scapegoat the troops. Work with them in resistance.

Stay Human.

[Solon]

162. It isn't scapegoating when you target those that are actually GUILTY...

There is no excuse, nothing really, that excuses the behavior displayed by the assholes in this video. They NEED TO BE PUNISHED, all soldiers who do shit like this NEED TO BE PUNISHED, otherwise we just approve of the actions. Yes, get all soldiers out of Iraq, immediately, that's a given, but those that acted in this manner should still be punished.

I don't value the troops more than I do Iraqis, both are equal, in worth, to my eyes, and we, here in the states, frown on things like letting people drown, teasing starving and thirsty children, torturing prisoners, etc. Those that do those particular type of actions need to do hard time, and those who STARTED this damned war needs to sit in a cell next to them.

[Tom Joad]

164. Indict most of the US senate first.

I would more vigourously punish the Senators, all of whom are wealthy to extremely wealthy(inxcluding the ski bum from hell, who now says "he's sorry"), who voted to support George W Bush resolution on this war. There was no excuse, NO EXCUSE, to trust that madman, while thousands of Americans (and millions of people around the world) were marching on the streets opposing what any reasonable person saw as bush's insane and illegal march to war.

[Little Wing]

165. Nancy Grace, is that you?

[Wonk]

167. kick back to page one (someone posted a dupe thread)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2773824&mesg_id=2773824

[rateyes]

168. Those bastards should be court-martialed for...

"conduct-unbecoming" and be immediately dishonorably discharged.

[Aviation Pro]

170. If I was the commander of these two jerkoffs...

...I would give them a special assignment. Patrol the most red of zones I could find with no weapons, no body armor and no support. I suspect they would beg and cry like little girls to avoid such an assignment.

[ornotna]

171. How am I supposed to support troops like this?

Made me sick.


To offset that horror I found this. There are some heroes in Iraq. Christmas 2004 anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HojBZgxHD74

[lse7581011]

175. I Can't! n/t

[Zhade]

179. FUCKING MONSTERS!

"Support the troops". Yeah, right - not THESE fucks.

They LAUGH when the kid fails to get the water. LAUGH.

[MGD]

182. "Are you getting this?" " I'm getting it SIR." This was an officer, a platoon leader IMO.

[Zhade]

183. And wasn't it disgusting?

My dad would have busted these assholes down so fast...!