Where are your traveling papers, citizen? DHS to implement passport requirements

[ck4829]

The Homeland Security Department will require virtually all air travelers entering the United States after Jan. 23 to show passports — even U.S. citizens.

Until now, U.S. citizens, travelers from Canada and Bermuda, and some travelers from Mexico who have special border-crossing cards for frequent visitors were allowed to show other proofs of identification, such as drivers' licenses or birth certificates.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff disclosed the effective date of the initiative in an interview with The Associated Press. The Homeland Security Department was planning to announce the change on Wednesday.

Chertoff said the change was a crucial next step to helping ensure the nation's security.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061122/ap_on_go_ot/passports_air_travel

[meegbear]

1. BFD - I've always used my passport, even for domestic travel ...

speeds you right thru the airport.

[marmar]

7. True, but as a resident of a border state....

It's the non-air travel between the U.S. and Canada that will be hurt. Windsor, Ontario is essentially a suburb of Detroit, and there's a huge amount of daily cross-border traffic and commerce. I think the requirement of a passport is going to have an extremely detrimental effect on that kind of traffic.
At the same time, It's sad that only a quarter of Americans have a passport. Maybe it would encourage them to get out experience the world, and expand the unbelievably narrow view among many of our fellow citizens.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

32. The ground travel restriction is different.

That one still has an exemption for "alternate" (non-passport) forms of identification, but I don't know which ones qualify.

Edit: See my post #33 for the specifics from DHS.

[Eurobabe]

16. Eggxactly....

Plus it's cooler than using a ratty old birth certificate. :hi:

I just re-upped my passport and got the super-sized one with 48 pages for entry/exit stamps!

[aquart]

2. I want this man to hang. Murderer.

[marmar]

3. With BushCo, nothing is really about security.....

:think:

[indepat]

6. Everything is about implementing an extreme RW agenda, rewarding patrons, and punishing

all who oppose any of their policies or actions.

[John Q. Citizen]

12. All the accused hijackers had passports. So we need one to enter our own

country?

Makes me feel so secure.....

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

30. You already need one to enter your own country...

...if you're coming from anywhere other than Canada Mexico, Bahamas, and maybe one or two other places.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

4. I have no problem with this.

Jesus, just get a passport. It's not difficult or expensive.

[annabanana]

8. And get it quick!

Before they jazz it up with scannable chips etc.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

57. This RFID thing is idiotic.

At least they're not putting personal information on the passport cards. I renewed my passport recently to avoid the whole RFID thing. I really, really don't like this idea, and wonder what's going to happen once identity theft gets to be a problem with them.

Hmm... Might be time to make another donation to the EFF.

[John Q. Citizen]

11. 60 bucks and a two month wait may be cheap for you, friend. Working for minimum?

[marmar]

15. $60? Isn't it up to $100 with all the fees?

Seems to me when mine got stolen in Paris (in March), the replacement at the U.S. embassy was the equivalent of about $100 U.S., and I'm pretty sure that's the going rate right now.

[John Q. Citizen]

17. Could be. If you are a single working parent with 2 or 3 kids you stay home.

Freedom isn't free, after all....

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

18. Well, if someone can't afford a passport...

...then I suspect they won't really be needing one.

[acmejack]

21. Quite elitist of you.

No one resides on the other side of the Canadian border then? In what the poster just describes as a bedroom community. But fuck them if they can't afford it, you're right. I like your attitude! I'm sure Chertoff does too.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

22. This only applies to air travel.

So unless they're commuting across the border in a helicopter, this won't apply.

Edit: There's nothing elitist about my comment. How many people do you know who would travel internationally if only they could afford a passport? My point is simply that passport application fees are not the determining factor.

[John Q. Citizen]

24. No, it applies to any border crossing, even crosiing for lunch or a walk in the

park.

Feel safer yet?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

27. That's a different program.

And that one still has an exemption which will allow you travel with an alternate form of identification.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. Not according to the border guards I spoke with at the crossing from Canada

to Montana.

They said a passport was going to be mandatory for everyone.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

33. According to the DHS website...

Travel Documents for U.S. Citizens Under WHTI

Under the proposed implementation plan, the following documents will be acceptable to fulfill document requirements:
U.S. Passport: U.S. citizens may present a valid U.S. passport when traveling via air between the United States and Canada, Mexico, Central and South America, the Caribbean, and Bermuda, and may also use a U.S. passport when traveling via sea and land borders (including ferry crossings).

The Passport Card (also referred to as the PASS Card): This limited-use passport in card format is currently under development and will be available for use for travel only via land or sea (including ferries) between the U.S. and Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Bermuda. Similar in size to a credit card, it will fit easily into a wallet.

* DOS and DHS also anticipate that the following documents will continue to be acceptable for their current travel uses under WHTI: SENTRI, NEXUS, FAST, and the U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner Document. As proposed, members of the U.S. Armed Forces on active duty traveling on orders will continue to be exempt from the passport requirement.


The passport card is $10 for children or $20 for adults. Happy now?

[John Q. Citizen]

36. Yeah, about as happy as I am about free speech zones, permits for peaceful

public assembly, and the "Patriot Act."

'A police state by any other name doth smell as foul.'

You seem pretty happy about it, though. I guess you disagree with Ben Franklyn about security and freedom. Apparently you imagine you can "have it all."

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

39. OK, fine.

Passports are murdering freedom. Do any of you ever travel outside North America?

[John Q. Citizen]

41. I've traveled extensively throughout Mexico and some in Canada. Whether

flying, driving or walking, I've never needed a passport to do that.

Until now.

So yeah, I do think it is a burden, and a useless one at that.

Do you believe this will make us safer or more free?

[WinkyDink]

49. I've been everywhere in Western Europe and the UK---and I TOTALLY

object to the increasing requirements of passports.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

54. Well I guess you won't be traveling abroad, then.

As you've got to show your passport when you re-enter the country unless you're coming from Mexico, Canada, etc.

[John Q. Citizen]

55. It's really none of your business, is it? Or is it? n/t

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

56. OK...

Can you please explain this? I've been very open with my position, and I don't care for the snarkiness.

Traveling from Europe to US and being required to show your passport = OK.

Traveling from Mexico to US and being required to show your passport = fascism.

Does that reflect your view, or am I completely misrepresenting it? What is your ideal situation with respect to this problem?

[John Q. Citizen]

59. I see the new regulations as just another chipping away of our freedoms.

Now, will you answer the question I asked you a while back?

Do you believe the new regulations will make us freer or safer?

and I now have a follow-up.

Do you believe that the erosion of freedoms is an ongoing thing or will they stop here?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

60. OK...

Do I think they'll make us freer? No. But they certainly won't make us any less free either. Showing your passport when you enter a country does not limit your freedom.

As for safety - indeterminate. It certainly would be a benefit for border patrol agents looking for fraudulent identification, because they wouldn't have to be aware of the fraud-prone areas of fifty different individual state drivers' licenses. It certainly isn't making anybody less safe, as far as I can tell.



Do you believe that the erosion of freedoms is an ongoing thing or will they stop here?

Again, I don't see this as an erosion of freedom at all. I have to present my passport every time I enter the United States, just as everybody who isn't entering from Mexico or Canada has to show their passport. If you have any examples of specific instances where this has been a problem, I'd certainly like to hear about it.

You want erosion of freedoms? Look at the PATRIOT act. Look at what happens to the property of people accused, but not convicted of drug crimes. Look at illegal detention. Look at the trampling of habeus corpus. Having to present your passport when you enter the country is not eroding your freedoms. I'd challenge you to give a single example of how having to show your passport instead of another form of photo identification is eroding your freedoms.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

38. No, I'm not

I was well aware of "this limited-use passport in card format is currently under development." I also knew that they just now whipped this out of their hats and have no date planned for it to become a reality.

Fat lot of good that does for those of us right now who need to travel across the border.

And the really funny thing is how this won't stop anyone who illegally wants to cross the border.

[fishwax]

68. of course, the passport cards all have the rfid, so that

those taveling between canada and mexico will have their movements monitored more closely. Whereas one used to be able to cross the border and may need only demonstrate residence to get back in, now one must automatically have their mvoements entered into a database.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

40. You suspect wrong

Most of the people I know who have to travel across the border regularly do so for medical reasons. They are either under-insured or have no medical insurance and have to go to Mexico for their care and prescriptions.

I see you're all over this thread but I respectfully must tell you, you don't know what you're talking about.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

47. Yes, I am "all over this thread."

Because I'm seeing a massive, massive overreaction by people to something that is nonthreatening. The only argument against this program that makes any sense is the financial argument. And that point will become moot with the passport cards for ground travel, which are quite affordable. It sounds like most of the people you're talking about make the journey by ground transportation, which means they'll be eligible for the card. This thread is, or was originally, about the new restrictions on air travel, for which passports would now be required for return, just like every other country in the world.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

50. As I said

The cards you speak are an unknown as to when they will actually be made available, if ever. You're the one who said this only applies to air travel and it was pointed out that your information was incorrect. Then you quoted some information from the DHS site that you claimed put ground travel issues to rest. I pointed out that your assertion was incorrect and provided you with valid reasons why this is placing an unnecessary burden on Americans.

I see from your profile that you live in eastern England rather than the US, and as such really aren't familiar with these issues. I assure you I would never try and tell you not to worry about losing a freedom you've held for the past few hundred years.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

53. I'm an American citizen.

I travel back and forth between Britain, the United States, and various points in Europe quite frequently. I always have to show my passport when I enter the United States. Or any other country for that matter. And sometimes I get questioned by customs or DHS. Sometimes I get questioned by passport control at Heathrow. That's how international travel works. And you know what? It didn't kill me. I'm not oppressed at the hands of a vicious police state. I understand that obtaining a passport might be problematic for the particular subsection of people who cross-border commute in North America and have no money. If the passport cards don't address it we've got every right to raise bloody hell over it. But quite frankly I have no problem with making everybody who comes into the country show a valid passport (or alternate form of identification like the card.) There are plenty of ways our rights as Americans have been eroded by this administration. This isn't one of them.

[SoCalDem]

46. B I N G O !

If our government were REALLY into "security", they would make passports mandatory, and GIVE them free of charge to anyone who could not afford one.

They are valid for MANY years, and are renewable for a very small charge.

and


it's PROOF-POSITIVE of your citizenship, so just take it with you when you go to vote, and you have NO ONE daring to question your citizenship.
A passport should be an integral part of naturalization process .(although that part of our populace probably has the HIGHEST rate of passport ownership already)
A passport is way better than a driver's licence, because no matter what state you live in, you are STILL able to prove your national citizenship..

It's NOT a "gubbmint plot" to track Susan Jones in Duluth Minnesota, as she wanders through her daily life :)

[maine_raptor]

5. How soon will this be done for intra-state travel.

"Your papers, please. And be quick about it!"

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. Never.

While not specifically noted in the constitution (as it was in the articles of confederation) the right to free travel between states is as well-established as anything in Federal law.

[maine_raptor]

52. Oh yea, sure

Just as well-established as the right not to have the government invade your home without telling you is. Ahyup, they'd NEVER do anything like that. :eyes:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

58. Two points:

First of all, your statement about the government invading your home without telling you is overly broad. Are you talking about specific USSC cases? There's been clear erosion recently with respect to things like the drug war, where the government can now seize your assets and refuse to return them, even if you're not convicted of a crime. But as for entering your home without permission, anybody with a search warrant has been able to do that for ages.

Second, and this is a political point, instituting any kind of restrictions on interstate travel would have the following immediate effects:

1) Massive economic disruption.
2) Massive political upheaval resulting from #1 and opposition from the people to any restrictions on movement.
3) The likely ass-kicking of whatever pathetic remnants of the Republican party are left in Washington.

Travel restrictions are really only feasible at the state level, and I don't really see any appetite for this at the state level anywhere.

[maine_raptor]

65. You better go back and re-read the Patriot Act, my Friend.

The government CAN go into your house and poke around WITHOUT ever telling you....and they don't need a Warrant, just the perceived thought that you MIGHT be a terrorist.

And while I agree with you on the political ramifications of restrictions on intrastate travel, I have to say that I can very easily see a day when the American Sheeple would allow such a thing in the name of security.

[madrchsod]

9. in less than 6 years we have become a police state

where americans are forced to "show your papers". we have become a prisoner in our own country

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

19. Umm...

I think you'll find that you're required to show your passport on just about every international flight in the world already. Even for flights within the EU, EU residents must show identification.

[Greyhound]

51. To be fair, we were well on our way before the criminal cabal put the

final nail in the coffin of liberty. California, for example, achieved police state status way back in the 80's.

[madrchsod]

63. yes you are right about that

started in the 60`s with the drug laws, then the traffic "safety" stops,and now a total war on all our rights..

[liberal N proud]

10. Crucial next step?

Next step to fascism

[madrchsod]

13. oh yes--

we lose 15 billion dollars and over 150 thousand jobs because of rude security personal and harassment at the airports.
a lot of people are not coming to the usa anymore because of this but as long as joe six pack in the middle of no where feels safe then i guess it`s all worth while.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

20. Off-topic:

I have no idea what the hell that image in your posts is supposed to be, but I absolutely love it!

[itsmesgd]

14. big brother's next step

Soon after May of 2008, PassCards will be used as well. These will be credit card sized ID's that are similar to Passports but they will have RFID chips imbedded in them so that you can be scanned from 20-30 feet away and not even know it. This will extend out from the airports and train stations into public buildings and city streets. It is all about coerced control through invasive surveillance. The Real ID Act is a very scary beast that will creep into every aspect of our lives. Start working on your phony ID's now.

[ThomWV]

23. They Cost Just Under $100 These Days

My son's came in the mail just yesterday. I was with him when he went to the Post Office to apply for it. They took the picture there so that was a small part of the cost but in total I believe it came to $92 or very close to that.

That is a lot of money for some folks. No shit. Could you reach in your pocket right now and pull out a hundred bucks that you could trade for a little booklet that didn't cost $0.25 to produce and probably less than ten bucks to process?

[magellan]

25. Have ANY hijackers/terrorists carried American passports?

Maybe the US gov't should try doing a better check of FOREIGN passports and visas -- like those carried by the 9-11 hijackers and the shoe bomber Richard Reid -- to "help ensure the nation's security".

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

29. It wouldn't be the US Gov't checking Reid's passport.

As he was on his way to the US, not in it, when he tried to blow up the plane. They've tried to address this problem with all of the pointless crap about advance passenger lists, which is almost completely useless and results in perfectly legitimate flights being sent back to their point of origin just because somebody named Ahmed was on board.

[magellan]

37. The point is he wasn't using a US passport

So why are US citizens now being required to purchase passports -- soon to be chipped -- to travel in and out of Canada and Mexico? There's no logic in saying this will keep us safer since there has been no instance of a terrorist entering this country on a US passport (that I'm aware of, 9-11 and beyond).

[itsmesgd]

31. it's not about national security or "foreigners"

it's all about the "totalitarian tip-toe"- total government control slowly making its way into every aspect of our lives, still using 9/11 and security as the codewords to fool and pacify the uneducated while labling opponents of total information awareness as "un-patriotic".

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

34. Have you ever traveled internationally before? n/t

[itsmesgd]

42. yes, extensively. why?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

45. Oops.

My post #44 was supposed to be in response to this post, so see #44.

[magellan]

35. I believe if you read my post the right way

...you'll see I understand that. The US gov't says they're imposing these new passport requirements on US citizens to keep us safe, when there's no history of a terrorist using a US passport to enter the US (that I'm aware of, at least as of 9-11 and beyond).

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

44. So...

...when you fly to another country and are required to show your passport... that's totalitarianism?

[treestar]

61. Another country is letting you in as a foreigner.

This is to get into YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

How many other countries have to do that?

There's Iran, for one example.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

62. As an American citizen...

If you travel to any country, with the exception of Mexico and Canada (And the bahamas, I think) you must present a passport upon your return to the US. I'm a US citizen, and I travel frequently. Any time I fly into the US from Europe, I must present my passport. This has always been the case. You will find that this is true almost everywhere. The EU does things a bit differently. Citizens of the EU can travel between EU countries without presenting a passport in some circumstances. But this is the exception, rather than the rule.

If you are returning to "your own country" as you put it, you must be able to prove that it is, in fact, "your own country." The way you do this is by presenting a valid passport.

Edit: Various things to improve clarity.

[jannyk]

64. Pretty much every country

will only let you back 'home' with a valid passport. I can only get back to the UK/Europe by showing my passport - now, once there I can travel around most EU countries without showing it. Before, when I had just a UK passport it had to be shown at every point of entry/exit.

You can only get back into the US now with a passport or Resident Green Card unless you come from Mexico, Canada or parts of the Caribbean. If you come back from France, India or Timbuktu you have to have a Passport. All this law does is add the very few odd countries where passports have not previously been required.

I never understood the idea of travelling 'abroad' without a passport - just seems really weird.

[RB TexLa]

43. And what is going to be used to deny people passports

[WinkyDink]

48. Good luck with that Christmas rush on the Passport Offices!

[originalpckelly]

66. This isn't unreasonable. I could understand outrage over having to give permission to leave...

but it makes sense that they do this coming back in. It is one of the 9/11 Commission Report recommendations and Speaker Pelosi said she was going to implement all of them, including this one.

[originalpckelly]

67. And I should note, quite a number of people posted that this...

would not simply be a requirement to enter with a passport, but also permission to leave. Who started that BS?

[mondo joe]

69. Much ado about nothing. It just means Canada and Mexico will have have the

same process with the US as every other country.

I go to Canada several times a year.

Now I make sure to bring my passport.

Big deal.