UCLA Question: why is library closed to public?

[Jed Dilligan]

Now that my outrage over the UCLA incident has settled somewhat, I am suddenly struck by how odd the policy that led to it is.

What could possibly be the rationale for closing the library to the public at a certain hour? Is it supposed to prevent terrorism? Stop homeless people from sleeping in the stacks? What?

To me, public access is one of the key functions of the library of a public university. Through the years of my life when I was neither a student nor a faculty member, I often used various UC libraries to research topics of interest to me. I even made extra money at times doing research for friends. The deal was always that the library is open to the public as long as it's open, and members of the public could pay a reasonable fee for borrowing privileges.

So what's the deal with this ID check? DU Bruins, check in!

[Cleita]

1. The stacks have always been off limits to most people, even

non-students and non-faculty who paid to use it. When you reached a certain status in the heirarchy of the campus then you could be allowed into the stacks, but you were always randomly checked for your ID to make sure you were authorized to use the stacks.

Everyone else had to look up what they wanted in card catalogs when I was there, although I'm sure the catalogs are computerized now. Then you gave the list to a librarian who sent it to the stacks. Then you waited until the books arrived at the counter for you to check out.

I don't know why it was this way, but maybe it was to protect a very extensive and often rare collection of books from random access by the public and undergraduate students.

[Raine]

3. I used to go into the stacks all the time

back around 1982 and I wasn't a student. Maybe I wasn't supposed to be there but no one ever stopped me. :o

[Cleita]

5. Maybe you were lucky.

I had faculty status when I worked there (no I wasn't a teacher, but an office worker)but I always had to show my UCLA ID to go into the stacks. They must have gotten lax since then.

[lolly]

18. ???

When were you there?

I was an undergrad from 78-82, a grad from 84-87, and an alumni association member (gave borrowing privileges) from 89-98 or so.

I never had trouble getting into the stacks. Don't remember ever being asked for ID. Just took the elevator up to the stacks.

Has it changed? When?

[Cleita]

21. I worked there between 1982 and 1984. I was told with a

flourish from the personnel lady who processed me that I was now considered faculty and could access the stacks in the library, a privilege that even undergraduates didn't have. I know that more than only faculty could have access to the stacks. Although, I only went in there a few times when I worked there, I always had to show my university ID to be allowed in.

Borrowing privileges had nothing to do with it. Anyone who was a student or otherwise connected to the university could borrow as long as they presented their list to the librarians who went into the stacks pulled the books and brought the ones available to the counter to be checked out. Ordinary citizens could also pay to use the the library, something one of my rich high school friends did and who nicely allowed me to borrow books on her dime, but this was back in the fifties, when I was in high school. However, she was never allowed into the stacks. We ordered from the counter.

I guess I was just stupid. I suppose I should have boldly entered like everyone else did apparently.

[lolly]

22. Well, as I said

I went into the stacks--at both libraries (Doheny and URL) whenever I wanted in the years between 78 and the mid-90s.

It may very well have changed now, but that's the way it was then.

I did need special permission of some sort (I think I had to fill out a form and get it approved) to get into the rare books collection and read some 17th century books, but that's all.

Ah, wait a minute--was 82-84 the time of the reconstruction? Doheny underwent some sort of retrofitting thing at some point, and the books were all located at another facility (I think it was actually a giant circus-tent type thing) so library users did have to fill out a request and wait for the books to get sent back to the desk.

On edit--damn I'm getting old. I'm getting my decades mixed up. The retrofitting thing would have been after the 94 earthquake, so that wasn't it.


Anyway, when I was there, you were supposed to show an id to enter the library (or URL, at least) but no one bothered you when you entered the stacks. There wasn't anybody by the elevator to ask, so I was hardly being "brazen" by going up the elevator. I do remember getting lost in them--they're like a maze.

[Cleita]

24. The maze is what discouraged me. I preferred going to my

local public library. No there wasn't anyone there by the elevator, but I did show my ID to any librarian around. I was warned that there were random checks and the students I worked with talked about it. I preferred going to the department libraries anyway if I really wanted something along my interests. They were smaller and specialized.

[Raine]

23. Yeah I guess I was lucky plus

being dumb cause I had no idea I wasn't supposed to be there. It must have been my air of looking like it was OK for me to be there that kept me from being questioned. :-) I don't have a clue as to why I wasn't stopped, I just walked in there pulling out books etc. :shrug:

[Cleita]

25. That always works.

I use to crash Hollywood parties maintaining that air, but that's part of my past I don't want to talk about right now. It was great fun though.

[Occulus]

8. whaaaa....????

I have never heard or seen a library worthy of the name not allow patrons to browse the stacks.

Jesus. I won't be using that library- or any which maintains that practice- anytime soon!

[izzie]

2. I do not know what happened but I would think it would be cost.

I recall in Alaska that the fee for even ex students got so high one could not go in. It was the books that did not come back. The school could not keep paying for the money it took to replace these books. That fell on the people going to college or the state. Alaska is pretty small so my guess Calif. problem would be even higher in cost. Hard to go after the general public for a book but easy to go after a student.

[Nikki Stone1]

4. ID check is done after 11pm

Before that, the library is open to the public. After that, for the protection of students and the library staff, the library is open only to students. Random ID checks are to insure that only students are in the library after 10pm. This is Los Angeles, and even the West Side has its crime.

[Jed Dilligan]

7. Every place has crime and always has had it,

some of which is committed by college students. I don't know that L.A. today is particularly unsafe compared to say, Berkeley in the 80s.

[mondo joe]

20. But limiting access certainly mitigates the risk of crime, during particularly

vulnerable hours.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

6. Probably similar to when I went to school in Boston

After 6PM, you needed to show a student ID and sign in to get into any campus building that was open after hours (radio station, computer lab), including the library. Not at my school, but one nearby, there at been a rash of incidents of sexual assaults occuring in some of the quiet and more secluded parts of one of the college libraries. Granted, a student could commit these type of crimes as well, but the suspect list gets narrowed and the threat of it happening at all goes down if you have to check in first.....

[blondeatlast]

9. Why should the general public be allowed on campus period?

That's why LA has a terrific PUBLIC library system.

[acmejack]

11. Come on, you think the public should be barred from walking on campus?

Granted I have only had experience with three schools, but none of them had any kind of policy (that I know about) preventing people from walking ont he campus. They had tourist attractions in the form of museums, fountains, plazas, etc. Am I really living in the past here?

[blondeatlast]

13. Okay, you have a point there. But I work in a public library and of course

spent oodles of hours in the college library and I think there should be limits for public use of academic libraries during extended hours.

Our public libraries are open until 9 PM and with the internet and the remote databases to which we subscribe I see very, very little reason that the public should be in academic libraries past a certain time.

[Xithras]

10. Because it's not a public library.

The word "public" in "public university" doesn't mean that the property is open to the public, only that it is funded by the government for the benefit of the people. The "people" in this context refers to students, and the benefit is the improved access to education for the non-wealthy.

Public libraries are for the public. University libraries are for students. Some universities give back to their communities by allowing the public to use their libraries free of charge, but that is a gesture made by the universities themselves, and not a legal requirement or right. UCLA, like many universities across the country, makes its libraries available to the public for a limited number of hours a day.

The primary rationale for limiting the hours is, of course, crime. Students have been robbed and raped in school libraries late at night, and limiting access is intended to reduce crime. While it is absolutely true that students occasionally commit crimes, they are less likely to do so, and they are much easier to catch than some random criminal.

[blondeatlast]

15. Thank you from a former college student and current public

library employee.

It's amazing how difficult the difference between "academic" and "public" is for some people to grasp (and I've worked in both environments).

[SoCalDem]

12. My guess would be that there are MANY MANY MANY students

who are paying BIG BUCKS to go there, and their library should be for THEM. It's not as if there are no other libraries in the area.

[Jed Dilligan]

16. Actually, it's a research library

not really comparable to a public library, and it exists as much for the use of faculty (who are paid big bucks) as students (who pay big bucks, or are paid small bucks--depending on whether they are grad or undergrad and what field they're in and how good they are.)

As someone who has been in all of the above positions, I support public access to the library and the landscape of campus. I do not want to work behind razor wire and checkpoints, and even less do I want to work in an environment "controlled" by rabid cops.

[tishaLA]

17. Actually, the faculty generally uses the URL

(University research Library) up by Campbell Hall/Bunche Hall, not Powell. UCLA has a variety of libraries, and Powell is simply the one undergrads tend to go to, at least until they have upper division courses.

[mduffy31]

14. The library at the University of MN-Duluth was closed to the public

after hours, especially during Finals week. Don't want the rif-raf bothering the students.

[mondo joe]

19. For one thing, open access means it costs more to staff it, and during the

late hours there is an expense saving in reserving it for students (who are burdened with the expense of it to begin with).

It additionally means those who do pay for it have some time during which there is less competition for books, space, etc.

Lastly, it might increase security for students, which is another responsibility of the university.