What is wrong with some of you?

[Maddy McCall]

Every holiday, I read at least 20 threads titled, "How do I deal with my Freeper relatives tomorrow?"

Jeez.

It's pretty easy. Go. Eat food. Avoid political topics.

My family can meet every holiday, enjoy each other's company, and go our separate ways in the evening without ever discussing politics. Political views are such a small facet of who we are. More than Republicans and Democrats, we are family.

Are families out there so dysfunctional that you can't avoid hot-button topics?

Maybe I'm just lucky. Or my family is considerate of each other.

[CatWoman]

1. you have some nerve

lecturing people with that ugly ass frog staring out from your sig line

:hi:

[Maddy McCall]

4. Well...

your cats're causing me seizures!

:P

:hi:

[Vidar]

73. I thank you & CatWoman for a moment of levity.

[annabanana]

2. Or perhaps for some, one's political views

are a larger facet of who they are, on all points of the spectum.

(Fortunately for me this is a battle I don't have to wage.)

[Maddy McCall]

8. It's not like pissing off your Republican relatives makes you "more Democratic."

Maybe it's more about maturity.

Just because some DUer and his Freeper cousin almost come to blows over "those stupid Democrats" or "those assinine Republicans" does not make that DUer "more political."

I'd say it makes him (or her) pretty damned immature to not be able to contain his emotions.

[aquart]

53. Well, how thoughtful.

It's good to know we have you to tell us how to behave.

[Maddy McCall]

68. You're welcome.

Anytime.

[noamnety]

17. That's where I'm at

Everything's political, isn't it?

I guess you can talk about the food - although my daughter is newly vegan, which I'm sure will lead to a conversation of why. Oops, that's political.

Or the weather ... but that inconvenient truth kind of colors the direction that topic heads off into.

Or sports, but I have no interest in that, because it's so creepily like nationalism to me. I never understood how people could get so emotionally caught up in caring if this person or that person does well, because of where they were born.

We could talk about what we did last weekend. But, well, I was with the gray panthers and I'm thinking we need to make a change to a federal law. I ought to do that.

Maybe what my kid's up to at school ... although I can't see the in-laws wanting a long conversation about organizing a production of The Vagina Monologues.

What kind of stuff ISN'T political? Fortunately the freepers know they'll get served up right along with the turkey at my house if they start trouble, so they tend to hold their tongues.

[annabanana]

31. Thanks for putting it into words so well. . .

So much of our day to day life is directly impacted by political decisions that are made in our name that it can be hard to stop the conversation "in time".

[LWolf]

79. Kinds of conversations that aren't political

that I expect to have today:

How my grandson is doing in school, how he is doing at home, how he is doing with his counselor.

Why we're watching football when we could be watching a good movie.

Whether to play Tripoli, which is what the rest of us would prefer, or something the grandson can participate in, which is, of course, what he would prefer, lol.

The projects I'm working on around the house and grounds, and how they are going. What is recently done, what still to do.

How we all miss my oldest son, who will be the only one not joining us this year. How his life in L.A. is going.

How my mother is coming along with her latest project at her home. What movies, books, etc. people have read/watched recently. How work is going. Whether or not I should dispatch the extra cockerel out there for dinner in the next few weeks or give it to someone who needs a meal.

The electric bill, and how we're keeping the place warm. What we plan to do over Christmas break. What our friends are up to.

I can do all of that without politics. :shrug:

It doesn't really matter, since there are no republicans in the family; just one non-voting anarchist, and he doesn't like to argue politics.

When there were republicans in the family, before my divorce, we did much the same. There was never any more than one or two off-hand comments like "We can't let __________ pass/be elected" with no discussion of the matter.

Family first, politics later.

[midnight]

93. I'm feeling a bit philosophical just now. While I think your point

is a good one. There is just so much information about corruption that we are being inundated with. It is hardly worth fighting over if it's not important, but today everything is important, because of Die bold, 9-11, Iraq, Afghanistan, economy........... If your not talking about it now, when will you?

[Nikki Stone1]

3. What's wrong with me? You got about 4 days and cellar full of chablis?

Pull up a chair. :)

[seabeyond]

5. that is funny. hey, i have a huge bottle of zin an i am the only one that

drinks it. lol lol lol. good thing i got most of the preparing done tonight

[Nikki Stone1]

11. Hey that's great! I'm sick and have no brandy in the house, so I'm drinking zin as well

I'm probably making it worse, but it's my second day home.

[seabeyond]

18. i swear my in laws think i am a lush. the only time i drink is when

i am around them.

bah hahahahah

cheers and i hope you feel better soon

[noamnety]

23. hahahaha

That is exactly my situation!

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

25. lol lol lol.... n/t

[Nikki Stone1]

27. I'll bet there are lots of people in that situation

:)

[Nikki Stone1]

26. Thanks for the good wishes

And inlaws drive many people to a good bottle. :)

[greatauntoftriplets]

6. That is how my family deals with it....

We avoid politics a holidays. They are still my family, even if they are wrong.

[Maddy McCall]

12. I'd say that's pretty normal.

Indeed, I'd say that it's rare that a family meets and all are of the same political persuasion.

[greatauntoftriplets]

49. And that is as it should be....

It has been a difficult year for all of us. My mother died on 12/28 last year. She had a heart attack on 12/22 and at almost 94. This our first holiday season without her.

We need to be together as a family, not as politcal opponents. Even though they are.

[Maddy McCall]

55. My warmest thoughts to you and your family.

I am sorry that you lost your mother.

:hug:

[Blue in Bama]

7. what is wrong with me?

I...I believe I'm tormented by demons.

[northofdenali]

63. Nah, that's just the Auburn coach..........

Kick him in the shins and don't worry about it :rofl:

[Blue in Bama]

92. Good idea!

n/c

[NMDemDist2]

9. i'm an orphan and these are the days I'm happy about it. just watching

DH's family at "events" is plenty

:evilgrin:

[Blue in Bama]

16. my last post

was meant for you re: JD Hayworth, Blowhard-Arizona

[blondeatlast]

10. I was raised never to discuss politics and religion unless I knew

that I was talking to someone who pretty much saw things the way I did.

Apparently that is suppressing my freedom of expression--even if it does improve the digestion when it's most needed...

[Blue in Bama]

13. Are you in the District

that kicked out J.D. Hayworth?

[blondeatlast]

20. Wish I could take credit, but alas, no. However, I have two sisters that

helped--and my late mom and dad probably got up and danced on November 8!

[Blue in Bama]

24. Alot of dancing

going on Nov 8!

[NMDemDist2]

38. nope, BAL and I used to be in the same dist, right BAL???

:hi:

[Blue in Bama]

43. Good riddance

to blowhard Hayworth regardless of what AZ District the (mis)represented!

[NMDemDist2]

45. indeed, he was awful and look for a run for Gov from him next time

blondeatlast and I were in the ghastly John Shadegg's dist. he kept his seat unfortunately

[salin]

14. I have avoided politics at holidays for a number of years...

and then, things turned in the past year or so. I still do not bring it up, but previously knee-jerk conservatives suddenly ask me about specific topics... not looking for a fight (as was the case a few years ago - to which I always deferred getting drawn into the conversation) - but now - looking for alternative explanations to stories/events that no longer make sense to these relatives (absurdities, do, for some, eventually sound like absurdities). I tread diplomatically when I go for the answer - focusing more on policy that figures - and then drive home those that are supporting policies that are not absurd (eg dems over repubs). The conversations have evolved over the last six years. But they have evolved in part because I refused to be drawn into the digs in the early bush years... by avoiding politics, but occaisionally talking about issues (and trying to not make those discussions heated) - NOW when things don't make sense (and these relatives, while educated - do not take the time to educate themselves politically) they want more info/discussion. On these terms - I am very happy to indulge them. :D

[seabeyond]

15. maddy, i called my two sons and husband into kitchen. i sternly

lectured all three.... this is important and i expect yawl to follow my instructions. ow you father is going to have a tough time with this so watch him closely and be a reminder for him. are you all clearly listening and know how serious i am. (three sets of eyes so huge, staring at me, nod in affirmation) really now a tough one for you father, he will need you help ...

not a single political coment tomorrow. no jokes about goearge bush being stupid, no breaking into song, "we kicked your asssssss"

and you father, he may not be able to stop himself.

they snorted at me and broke into laughter.

dad wont be having a tough time mom.... that is YOU...... (my hubby almost non political and certainly non confrontational. he has the manners)

k all. dont let me say a word, and i certainly dont get to gloat in glee...

i am with you maddy. i have my brood under control. wink

happy turkey day all

[ruggerson]

19. Why do I always agree with everything you write?

happy thanksgiving, Maddy

[Maddy McCall]

66. I donno.

Maybe I put a spell on you. :D

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, ruggerson.

:hug:

[Warren Stupidity]

21. "Avoid political topics"

Part of the problem we face as a society is that political discourse is considered out of bounds. Instead of having important discussions at the table, interactively, with your peers and family, we restrict ourselves to the inane. Instead we have discussions here where nobody knows you are a dog, or we have the monologue of the bullshit media system.

[seabeyond]

29. grew up at a dinner table discussing everything. wasnt limited to

politics but it was certainly there. this "new rule" just started oh, about 2002, when hate and division and support us or the terrorist, repubs the christians, bush a good ole boy, we are going to die if dems of power bullshit started. now we are not able to. my brothers and father bought into all that. there is no longer reason and listening as there had been in the past. i open my mouth, they shout me down. i bring in reason, they call me a name. learned from fox, limbaugh and repub 101

not worth it today

doesnt mean there arent a ton of other serious and important discussions for us to have where it is much more open

[Warren Stupidity]

37. My childhood too: wonderful memories

of dinner table discussions about everything and anything. Nothing was out of bounds or off limits, but you had to be prepared to defend your positions, and sloppy thinking or outright bullshit were not acceptable. I've had the freepoid problem over the last few years, and basically my wife and I agreed to not attend that thanksgiving dinner again for that reason. Religious fundamentalism and rightwing world made for poor dinner companions. The family connection was somewhat indirect anyway, so it was no huge loss. Instead we are off to compatible friends and hopefully good conversation.

[seabeyond]

50. so, with my kids. they are not allowed to leave the tabe until i am done

i have learned to eat incredibly slow. not that i tried, but i have found in between all the talking, just takes me longer. i love our family table. BEST time of the day for me.

enjoy your turkey day

[Warren Stupidity]

51. You too, and may our discourse always be civil.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[stillcool]

34. exactly ...

how the next generation inherits this sick society. I am highly tuned in to 'political consequences', and can not look at my life without acknowledging that influence. Thank goodness, I have no family to fret over...I burned up that bridge long ago.

[Maddy McCall]

39. If your family can discuss politics without ill feelings or fighting...

that's fine.

I'm not saying DON'T talk about politics.

I'm saying that if you fear some terrible events will unfold if politics are discussed, THEN don't talk about them. Isn't that what all of those posts are about anyway? The silly "How do I handle my Freeper uncle tomorrow" threads?

[wellstone dem]

22. SAme here, my family is almost all liberals with one outlyer,

but we play cards, don't talk religion and don't talk politics. It only comes up when one of her kids brings up politics, assuming we all agree. Even then, there is some good humor.

[seabeyond]

33. one night son said, mom you are torturing us. i say.... legal now

so tis ok.... and all the libs around the table were taking shots. and my father, oh the poor dude. i thought he was going to explode. i kept trying to distract everyone but they were having the best of time with the witty jabs. that is where i fail. about everything that someone says , i can come out with a retort against bushco or repubs. should of seen us playing risk. ooooooh you are acting like a repub (greedy, me me me, my hubby). see me i am the dem... manipulating the kids and taking over the world... in peace and harmony. i allowed both kids and i to sit in europe, in peace, no attack drinking lattes

[left of center]

28. Yes, they are disfunctional

I posted such a thread for amusement. I'm actually capable of controlling myself.

My opinion of my wife's family is that they are right wing and religious because they are so disfunctional. They need to be told what to think and how to behave to establish some form of order and tranquility in their lives.

[Subdivisions]

30. I can't avoid political topics around the freepers for one good reason

I'm the one always bringing up politics and

WE WON!

Can't let the bastids live that down!

[Luminous Animal]

32. Everything goes along swimmingly..

until the 1st racist joke. And then there's another, and another, and another. It's 10 laughing racists making 4 pissed off. Not mentioning the kids who are hearing this crap. Most growing up to be nasty bigots, themselves. If the racist jokes don't get a rise, it's on to the "queers". And just try asking them to hold back on the jokes until after the kids have left the table, that just spurs them on more.

Then there's the vegetarian thingy. A whole 'nother topic for humiliation and hilartiy. One year I was eating my green beans, and an aunt looked at me and said, "I cooked those in chicken fat." Oh ho ho! That was good for howls of laughter. They laughed until they cried.

Fuck 'em. This is my husbands family and we've not visited in years. They honestly have no clue why we despise them.

[Maddy McCall]

36. Under your extraordinary circumstances...

I think you made the right decision.

[smtpgirl]

35. Totally AGREE with you!!

But some people here all DU, all the time.

They can't just get their drothers up and let it go for a day!!

You are right Maddy, after all they are family, just don't want to ruin a reunion because they don't feel the same way that I do!!

Isn't that called GROUPTHINK??

Would rather hear a different opinion sometimes.

I for one have 4 Freeps in my family, just avoid the obvious, will be a better holiday if you do!!

I'll just laugh at them silently and go on eating my turkey, because in my mind I know that they are turkaaays!!

[MazeRat7]

40. Did I miss something... where are these whiners... let me at em..... (n/t)

[Der Blaue Engel]

41. Yes, you're lucky

Some of us aren't. My solution was to stop visiting or speaking with freeper relatives (my entire family) because they were incapable of not spewing their vile, RW crap.

No, my family is not considerate. They are brainwashed fundies who think it's their duty to condemn anyone who doesn't share their beliefs. I'm not sure why I deserve your scorn for that.

[T Town Jake]

46. I didn't see the name "Der Blaue Engel" specified for scorn in the OP's post....

...or did I miss something? :shrug:

[Der Blaue Engel]

94. I am one of those dysfunctional folks who can't have Thanksgiving dinner with my freeper family

without it errupting into a verbal shitfest.

I guess I took it a little personally. :)

[jhrobbins]

42. None of y'all have it like we do - let me splain......

My partner and I are the liberal dems in a sea of conservative republicans. First, we are gay and they are Catholic - thats already a problem. Now for the coup de gras - my partner's nephew's went to school with the Bush girls here in Austin. To make matters more interesting, his nephew, out of all the available young men at AHS, began dating one of the girls (I won't say which-as if I haven't outed us enough by now) and they dated all through HS. THey have remained friends and 'the nephew' went to the inaugurals, stayed at the WH and has spent holidays there and Camp David as well. So, not only is the 'family' a conservative republican one, we also spend time with people from the 'inner circle' as well and they are devout!
However, we love them and they love us, so we just don't talk politics.

I haven't spent as much time as I used to, but things are OK if we honor each other's beliefs.

[man4allcats]

44. There's nothing wrong with a good fist fight

at a family gathering. Fuck those freeper relatives! They're just idiots that haven't yet gotten weeded out of the gene pool. Nothing's perfect. Even natural selection takes time.

:popcorn:

[jwirr]

47. On Thanksgiving it is a little hard to totally ignore politics. It is about

being thankful and having things to be thankful for. Under those circumstances my family finds it hard to forget that many do not have the things we have to be thankful for - thus politics is a central part of thanksgiving. Hunger, housing, health, safety, jobs, education, etc. They all are political issues. If you give thanks then it should be evident that you are recognizing that it is worse for many others.

[T Town Jake]

48. I agree 100%....

:thumbsup:

[demgurl]

52. I should hope that nothing is wrong with me.

Perhaps it should be asked if it is something wrong with us or our familes. For me, I hate going to my freeper in-laws. This is not because they shove politics in my face but it is what they represent in their viewpoints.

My father-in-law told me a long time ago to stop sending him detailed emails about the horrible abuses going on in Abu. He said he approves of the administration and the job they are doing. Of course, this is such a big (R) political contriubutor that there has not been a year that has gone by that Howard Coble (R) has not been to his Christmas party. And every year Howard drives away drunk!!!!!

The fact that he and his wife approve of the torture should never have been a surprise to me since they approved of torture within our family a long time ago. My sister-in-law is involved with a man who physically and mentally tortures her kids. When one of the kids came to us talking about being hit in the stomach for punishment and being locked in a pig's cage (filled with excrement) and rolled down a hill in it, I went to the family to demand an intervention. I was told that even if the boys ended up in hospital they would never go against their mom. I was told her boyfriend is an OK guy who helps them around the house with things that might be wrong!

And they are not the only ones who support my sister-in-law. I once complained to another married in that the sister-in-law had tried to exact revenge on my husband and myself. She asked what I expected when I accused her boyfriend of abusing her kids. I explained I had offered witnesses to the entire family (inlcuding a teacher) but no one wanted to see the proof. She shrugged and said, 'Well, what did you expect? She was only defending herself!.

We have made our position quiet clear about the boyfriend including the fact that we refuse to exchange gifts with a child abuser but this does not deter my brother-in-law from chiding us last year and saying we should just act nice so that we can put all of it behind us! Oh, and then the same brother-in-law today said how we should exchange MP3 songs with the child abuser.

The whole thing makes me sick and everyone seems to dislike us because we are the goody two shoes of the family. They even call my husband 'the golden boy'.

So some of these people are freepers but their politics flow over to many subjects and that is how they choose to lead their lives. Being around some of them makes my stomach churn. Talking about it right now does that to me. I just can not abide by how some people turn a blind eye to the pain of others. It is like I told my relatives - even if you do not read about torture, it is still happening. I wonder if they realize that even when they did not talk to witnesses of the child abuse, the kids still were abused.

Maybe what is wrong with me is that I have not stood up louder and stronger agianst the way these people live. (We did report them to child services) We skipped the first Christmas after the whole child abuse thing came to a head.

I do stay away from 95% of all family get togethers. I'm sorry, I really am not sure what is wrong with me.

[silverlib]

56. There's nothing wrong with you...

Thanks for taking a stand. I can't sit silent when family members start degrading the poor and talking about how each person is accountable for their lot in life or how the GPS on passports don't matter if you have nothing to hide. So, you see, my situation is much better than yours. But silence is not the answer. I have the utmost admiration for you. Happy Thanksgiving and I am thankful for you!

[demgurl]

89. I had my mother-in-law degrade my best friend over lunch one day!

Her son was in a very bad car accident four states away. The hospital bills, after deductible, are around $50,000! (can was a write off, helicopter took him to the hospital and he lost a leg!) I told her how they had thought of bankruptcy before that but that now they are feeling forced into it. I told my mother-in-law they do not lead an extravagant lifestyle and that bankruptcy is not even a reasonable option since they will still be required to pay their debts thanks to the credit card industry writing of the bill. She shrugged and said they should have handled their money better! I told her if we are ever forced to do that then we will be leaving the country to start anew somewhere else as things are so uneven here that we would never get out of debt. She just replied she hopes that never happens.

It take s a lot to stand up for others and the only discernible result, for me, is that we have been ostracized. I would not change a thing and I would do it all exactly the same, but it sure is lonely being right.

I am also thankful for you and Happy Thanksgiving, my friend.

[TK421]

71. How do you put up with that shit? Really? I could never hold my tongue

if something like that happened....someone would just get knocked out!

[demgurl]

86. It almost came to that.

At the time I was not the pacifist I am today. And boy did hubby's family hate me. I canvassed my sister-in-law's neighborhood because my nephew told me that his friends had been there for the pig cage incident. I found the children who had been there. I also found out about the teacher who suspected abuse. I found an adult who my nephew ran to when he was locked in a bathroom and left alone in his house. He broke the window and ran to the neighbor's house.

My husband and I made several hard decisions to call protective services but each time they did nothing. I later found out that my sister-in-law and her boyfriend frightened the kids so they were scared to death to say anything. My last ditch attempt was when I write to every government official in my district and state and begged for their help. I explained, in excruciating detail, all of the thing I had learned. One person said they would help me. The agency finally seemed to do more of an investigation that time but a lot of the information as old.

We let things lapse after I canvassed the neighborhood. At that point we had lost faith in the system and we decided to use the witnesses as leverage for my sister-in-law to get the boys counseling. She said she would but months later when we went to check up on her she claimed we went to protective services again and that voided the deal. Either she lied about protective services or someone in the family finally got tired of the boyfriend's actions. At any rate, we have not really had access to the boys since. There was that one time he showed up to a family gathering with a black eye that he forgot how he got. His mom said she had no idea how he got it either but he 'came in from playing and had it'. As a mom, I would have found out immediately how he got it. That excuse stunk to high heaven.

But if you really want to know how f**ked up hubby's family is, you only have to look to the time when the same sister-in-law had a relapse on her crack addiction (she now has been clean for about 4 years). We kept the boys at our house and my mother-in-law came over saying how we should return the boys to their mom (she left them with us) because she needs them and how it was just a small lapse. This lapse consisted of her going out to find her drugs and leaving him locked in her office. He realized his mom was gone and could not get out. He banged his head against the glass door until it shattered and glass cut his scalp! But, that was all a part of the addiction so it was OK. :sarcasm:

The family is so far over the edge that another sister once suspected the abuse and would not even let her kids go over there (way before I came along). The two sisters did not even speak for a couple of years. I am not sure what happened but she let her convictions go and she would not even speak to me when I wanted to discuss the witnesses and abuse. She said it was her sister's business and she did not want to hear about it.

I feel much better these days since the boys are teens and I believe they could fight back if needed. I have always feared that the lack of action would lead to a late night phone call and one of the kids in jail for murdering the boyfriend. I keep telling myself a couple of more years and they will be out on their own. Maybe it is deluding myself since I am not even really allowed access to them any more. I hope they will be OK.

At any rate, I see the same head in the sand attitude as voting for Bush and pretending all is right with the world. There would have to be something wrong with anyone who goes into that type of situation and did not dread it or wondered how to get along with these people.

[madfloridian]

54. People have different situations.

It is not always that easy, not since Bush took office. We were criticized not only for not supporting the war, but for leaving our Southern Baptist church over their support of it.

Rush Limbaugh played a huge role. You would be amazed how many people were snookered.

It is not easy being treated like that when you speak out for something important.

I hope I never get to the place that I will keep my mouth shut rather than hurt someone's feelings when they are spouting nonsense while our soldiers and innocent Iraqis are dying.

I won't do it. We get along better now, some of my Republican family and my hubby and me...because they have agreed we can speak our minds.

That was the deal.

[Generic Brad]

57. Yes, some families are that dysfunctional

I am thankfully not invited for Thanksgiving tomorrow because I am told I support the party of baby killers. If Democrats support abortion, the twisted reasoning goes, and I support Democrats, then it is the same as if I were ripping children out of the wombs of expectant mothers with my bare hands.

As long as my presence at family functions is dependent on renouncing the Democratic party and everything it stands for in addition to begging for forgiveness, I will avoid family functions and dine with sane people instead.

[riderinthestorm]

58. My freeper relatives love to taunt

I wish it wasn't like this but it is what it is. Oh sure, it's not phrased as "politics" but the Freeper ugliness is there nonetheless: race, class, job occupations, welfare, taxation and more. It permeates far beyond "politics". I can vividly remember the day I discovered a black ancestor and was relating the genealogy research (a black, Jewish ancestor from Jamaica who transformed themselves on the boat to Toronto into a white protestant) from our family tree. Genealogy!!! what should be a completely innocuous conversation from a hundred years past! and I got vilified for HOURS during one Xmas . Even now YEARS later, one BIL can't help but snort, snicker and chortle over anyone DARING to impugn that anyone in THIS family is a "BOON!" (whereas my kids think this is all way cool...) He has to bring it up on absolutely every family gathering.

I really wish I were interested in recipes, the latest gossip or whose wearing a really ugly outfit but it bores me. I wish we could have a vibrant discussion that revolved around the issues that are impacting our lives but it's impossible.

This year I am finally staying home. And I'm not inviting anyone else over. I wish I weren't being so insular but I can only tell you the relief is so profound. Tomorrow I will have a peaceful holiday for the first time in sooooo long.

[seabeyond]

62. MY freeper in laws found haiti blood two generations only, two sons

gay and the mother found russian jew.....


i CAN'T let it go, and it is with a huge smile, total acceptance and embracing and often thank you to them.... since my blood is just that boring ole european. my kids LOVE that they have all the mixtures and we proudly talk about it

in laws wish we were more quiet about it. but really my kids think it is nifty too

[Nevernose]

77. I know where you're coming from.

Okay, maybe not about the geneaology stuff. I don't have much family, and none that live within a thousand miles, so I go to dinner with friends and get so to choose people with similar mindsets.

What really makes me crazy, though, is the INANITY sometimes, especially among my former inlaws. "Well, I didn't find the perfect shoes at the first store I went to so I went to another one. And there I found shoes, and now I have 47 pairs of them." A little bit of that is okay, we all do it to a certain extent.

But why talk about fashion if you don't talk about sweatshops and importing through Seattle versus importing through Mexico?

Why talk about children if you don't talk about child rearing?

Why talk about recipes if you don't talk about farming or food quality?

Why talk about the weather if you don't talk about the water crisis facing the Western states or the latest theories of global warming?

[riderinthestorm]

84. You get it!

What's really sad is that I AM a farmer (and none of the rest of them are) and if I try to bring up anything to do with global warming, weather patterns, food distribution, organic vs. non-organic etc., it's all political. It's all fraught with tension which means I can't/don't bring up any discussions about subjects that consume more than 90% of my life.

Holidays like T-day just emphasize the gulf that has widened between myself, my kids and my husband and all the rest of my Freeper relatives. I'm by no means a workaholic but all day at these things I find myself longing to escape the boredom and just be back home. In a really wierd twist, every single time I am at these things, I miss the farm the most acutely (and farming can be exasperating and tiresome and grueling and bitterly cold and frighteningly hot and.....)

It feels rude and dishonest to get to my mother's house and then hardly speak to anyone as I try not to step on any Freeper toes - at last year's Xmas gathering I actually brought a book in a vain attempt to ensure I didn't step on, or plant any verbal landmines. It is definitely dishonest and rude to host the feast when I find myself spending the whole day in the barn with the animals. After trying to make it work for decades of extended family gatherings, I give up.

Actually, in retrospect, I guess I shouldn't have answered on this thread :blush: since I'm NOT wrestling with making nice with my freeper relatives this year.

Heh. Sorry Maddy! I hope you have a great T-day!
:hi:

[seabeyond]

85. i am taking two books when i go to in laws this christmas, lol

series of john sanford i have been reading. love his books. i have read all but two and once i start i cannot put them down. that should be four days non stop reading, lol

[Nevernose]

96. I'm jealous. I can only WISH I was a farmer.

And why is it that science has become a political issue? Why is global warming a liberal/conservative thing? There have been a few threads in LBN lately that mention how, when the Christian Coalition tried to address issues of responsible stewardship, several Deep South factions seceded. While I'm not surprised that they conservatives in the Deep South would vote to secede from anything, I'm constantly amazed at the lack of conservatism amongst many in the anti-environmental camp. I know, for instance, quite a few hunters who have recently become "environmentalists" in order to preserve what they love the best: animals (albeit for killing) and the wilderness.

I live in a townhouse in Las Vegas, so actual farming is right out. I do have a lot of houseplants, and on the patio and front walk I grow tomatoes, chili peppers, bell peppers, and strawberries in pots. Next spring I plan on clearing the rocks from my 8 x 8 patch of actual soil and plant some heirloom corn, lettuce, and maybe a few tubers. My dream, someday, is to live somewhere where I can just have a simple garden.

This may seem strange to you, but last year my daughter, who has lived her entire life in Las Vegas, asked me where her food came from. I grew up in the country (though not on a farm), so it never occurred to me to consciously consider where our food came from. So we planted a garden as best we could. The world would be a lot better of if all of us -- even the city-bound ones -- helped feed themselves just a little bit.

[Warren DeMontague]

59. I've got bad knees, grey hair and absolutely atrocious eyesight.

Want me to go on?

[northofdenali]

60. Hey maddy, I had a great solution a few years ago.

Just shoot 'em when they walk up the sidewalk :evilgrin:

Nah, I'm lucky - family members who aren't Dems (most of them are) are usually apathetic to politics in general.

Now, start a religious argument - WHAMMO!!! :nuke:


Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! :grouphug:

[Maddy McCall]

64. Then you could have all the dressing for yourself.

:D

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

61. Where is your spine?

There is no time out in this battle. It is the battle for the heart and soul of America, and we have been shat upon for six years. Now, more than ever, I am bringing my Democratic ideals to the discussion over the traditional gluttony of thanksgiving.

No Quarter, no truce, no nothing. I watched them set the hounds of hell on Clinton in '92 and slander him daily for 14 f***ing years, watch the Gore-ing and the Swiftboating and the Schiavo bullshit and I simply by the bloody god will not be silent. HELL NO!

If ANY evil, stupid, or demented Freeper dares to utter the merest whimper of support for the faintest shadow of a Bush policy, he gets the whole load right then and there over cranberry sauce and pickles. I will turn over chairs and pound my fist on the table whilst demolishing said dipshit with every articulate bone in my frail body. Period.

No Way. I'll give Thanksgiving when they Shut The F*** Up!

[Maddy McCall]

65. Great satire.

I hope.

[lonestarnot]

80. Now that is a spunky lil DUer!

:toast: :yourock: friend!

[InvisibleTouch]

67. To answer your question:

"Are families out there so dysfunctional that you can't avoid hot-button topics?"

Yes.

In my case, we all pretty much agree on politics. It's the other hot-button topics that have us at each others' throats. This year, I'm just not going, and it's a relief.

Planning to have a Happy Thanksgiving my way this time - frozen turkey dinner and peace and quiet! :)

Hope everyone here has a good one too.

[FredScuttle]

69. Fuck all that...

I spent 8 years defending Clinton and the past six hearing how great Lord Bunnypants is. It's my time now!

[NuttyFluffers]

70. because many are not ready to make nice.

and because of the recent political policies that have directly (or indirectly) damaged their lives and their loved ones, the have a damned good reason not to sweep it under a rug. fine, you get along well with your family by ignoring the big ol' dead elephant in the room -- but that sure as hell doesn't make you better than those willing to face the mess head on and get that damned thing out of their lives.

thankfully the vast majority of my family is liberal. i am flamingly liberal. so we rarely disagree on issues, just a matter of degree. but i find the holidays to be an exceedingly shitty time and despise the monotonous banal of the whole affair. in fact, i regularly avoid as many family get togethers as i can, and aspire to move away so that i may never have to dwell in such tedium again. in my world i'd gladly exchange an argument about politics and philosophy/religion over an argument about sports and pop culture. and as good as i can fake being polite and gregarious, i would gladly hand it all over to have something real and interesting to connect with my family than utter tripe and ephemera, even if it is an argument.

actually, for a long time my question was: what is wrong with all you people, why can't you speak of meaningful things instead of inane trivialities through forced smiles? why, for once before you die, be real in front of the people you profess to love? i gave it up though. people don't want family to connect, and love, and understand. they want family as generic insurance policies for life's hardships. and that's why i find it more important to build your own "family;" there's the off chance that maybe, just maybe, someone might want to connect on a deeper level beyond "brittany spears"-like superficiality.

so, as i have given up pointing fingers at people like you, will you be so kind as to stop pointing fingers at people who are not like you? thank you, and enjoy your holiday.

[treestar]

72. Wow aren't you superior.

Freeper relatives bring it up, that's why.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

74. What is wrong with me

is a post the length of which would tax the bandwidth capacity of this site. :D

Anyway, at a wedding this summer I saw family, really close family, that I hadn't seen in years. We were all very happy to be together. I only wanted to celebrate and enjoy, but two of the worst wingnuts started up with me as if we'd stopped arguing only days ago, not years. It was a wedding. One of the nuts was the father of the groom. And he tried to start a fight...sober! I had to walk away. I couldn't believe it. Talk about not understanding what is wrong with some people.

I wish you and yours a very happy Thanksgiving! :hi:

[Nick Fallon]

75. I got in more fisticuff on Thanksgiving than anything else through the year

nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

76. Yes, we've had to declare a truce in my family, and on the rare

occasions when my inexplicably Republican brother tries to start something, we ignore him.

[cwydro]

78. Good post.

I wonder about people who can't STFU long enough to enjoy the company of others and just put politics aside.

[seabeyond]

81. after reading some of the posts i can understand. but then

there is more going on in those families than what i seem to be experiencing. my family is not in the same place as some of these other families. so the ingredients are all different which suggest us keeping mouth shut (repubs dont want subject brought up WAY more than i cause they recognize bush a f* up, and they are the losers) and we genuinely love and like each other. not reading that in other posts....

[cwydro]

82. Yep, I think you're right. /eom

[fishwax]

90. sometimes it's the other person's inabiliyt to keep their mouth shut

that's the problem. One can avoid political discussions, but not necessarily make political discussions avoid you.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

83. Oh nay, nay.

It's not just politics. My republican daughter and her republican in-laws (all of them live in Indiana) are getting ready, as we speak, to go over the river and through the woods to grandma's house and go to war. Last night the mother-in-law told my daughter not to bring her apple pies to the dinner because nobody liked them. None of the relatives want to go to mom's house for Thanksgiving because she always skins the turkey before setting it on the table. But they all go anyway. And there are always hard feelings. And these are all republicans with similar political views. :crazy:

I'm glad that I live in Florida where the sun is shining and we are all in a good mood. The food is secondary and politics won't be brought up at the table. (Well, maybe for a second, but we are all democrats here, so anything derogatory to bush will be met with laughter.)

And next year, I hope Indiana daughter can join us, and then we won't mention politics.

Thanks for the common sense, Maddy, and Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

[Blue in Bama]

87. I told ya , demons is whats wrong

and your smiling from avatar reminds me of one of them, hahahaha. :-)

[Blue in Bama]

88. EDIT

read 'frog" not 'from"...sorry

[Ekirh]

91. Won't be a problem at our family dinner.

Politics very rarely get brought up at the Holidays . .

Besides why argue politics when we can have the REAL fight . . . the fight over my Mom's homemade stuffing . . oh yes. .there will be bloodshed ;)

[Odin2005]

95. I think it's that the "Culture Wars" atmosphere causes political discusions to degenerate.

It's hard to have a political discussion when each side considers the other evil insread of agreeing to disagree.