"Lawrence O'Donnell was in tears ..." As we all should be ...

[understandinglife]

Lawrence O'Donnell was in tears

by
Wed Nov 22, 2006 at 06:45:26 PM PST

And many of us are, and all of us should be.

Today, on Keith Olbermann, Lawrence O'Donnell expanded on a point he has been making in print, online (at Huffington) and on other shows. He said that we are at a point in Iraq where we cannot win, and we cannot leave. He said the people in power are combat cowards, they are not serving. We are at a point now where we are asking soldiers to be the last man to die for a mistake.


At the end of the interview O'Donnell said: "And we should think about this, especially now, as we are approaching Thanksgiving, a family holiday." The camera went to Keith who said essentially that he was not going to ask anymore questions that might just distract from or dilute the powerful point that O'Donnel had just made. Then the camera switched back to O'Donnell. His eyes were read, his mouth was tight, and he looked down as he tried to choke back tears. The camera switched back to Keith quickly.

What happened to you my dear America?

"We the People of the United States of America ..." are not the criminals who planned and conducted war of aggression and ordered our most honorable citizens to participate in an illegal occupation.

Those among us who did those deeds defiled every thing America represents, every aspect of what a civilization represents.

"We the People ..." will punish those who defiled America, those who killed thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens, those who brought lethal harm to our dear soldiers and enduring grief to their families.

Oh, yes, "We the People ..." will hold these criminals among us accountable as never before in history.

Count on it.

How can "We the People ..." offer any word or toast or hug or gesture of "thanksgiving" when so many of our cherished citizens are being vaporized by an enemy that emerged entirely because some pansy frat boy and a bunch of delusional nitwits with money had nothing better to do than violate the Nuremberg Charter?

I weep, as we all should, on the eve of a day when no American soldier should be suffering. All the conflicts that our military currently confront are manifestations of what happens when criminals occupy the Executive, Legislative and Judicial Branches of the Republic - supported by a tiny few who cannot be satisfied by the fact that they have more money than 99 % of the population of America.

Sick. Yes.

Evil Yes.

Time to make it stop. Way Over Due.

All this one citizen can say is Thank You to all those who never, ever should have had to suffer on Thanksgiving Day 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 ....

Stop the evil before Thanksgiving Day 2007 and the entire world will join us in celebrating that Thanksgiving Day


BE AMERICA. ---

[shance]

1. I think to take our country back, we have to rescue it from the idolatry of money.

Greed and the isolation and disconnection from one another I believe has placed our country and our souls in the ICU.

[understandinglife]

2. Avarice kills. No doubt about it. Ample evidence any where you look in history.

Thank you,

Bob

[gpandas]

20. money

money rules.

[JI7]

3. why is it so hard for people to accept that we can't win ?

i think much of it has to do with ignorance of the world including our own country and history.

does anyone have a video link to this KO and O'Donnell thing ?

[aquart]

8. Because that would make us losers.

And every dick in America would go limp.

[JI7]

9. yeah, but why do people feel that way ?

i don't feel that way and many on here don't either. many on here would say that it makes us stronger when we admit where we are wrong and try to correct it.

but some people have a need to believe we can't ever be wrong, especially in war type situations. and no matter how bad it gets as a last resort they always come up with "do it for those who have already died for the cause". i mean wtf ??????????

[Vidar]

13. Both you & aquart are correct IMHO.

This is a macho, testosterone-driven, ill-reasoned response.

[tblue37]

17. It's the "my team" sports religion culture in

the US. Kids are raised from the start to devote themselves to a team--even elementary schools have mascots and "school spirit," but what that means is "insider/outsider" labeling. It is considered a "good thing" and promoted by all the adult authority figures in their life. It is trained into them by our entire cultural milieu.

Even as kids they are trained to identify insiders and outsiders by what they wear, how they speak, what shows they watch on TV, etc. Though it is founded in natural, hardwired instincts, such intense tribal loyalty is a learned behavior. Once you have totally identified with your "team," then that is the way you define yourself, and any threat to your team is a threat to your very being.

At the high school, college, and professional sport level you end up with people beating the crap out of fans of other teams. You get bizarrely destructive celebratory riots when one's own team wins.

At the celebrity worship level, you get people freaking out at any slight to their favorite celebrity. As an exercise in anthropological research, try visiting the fan message boards for popular TV shows like Dancing with the Stars or America's Next Top Model. People are virulent in their support of their chosen "star" and, especially, in their demonization of competing stars and their fans. I am something of an anthropological rubbernecker. (One of my friends once called me an entomologist who watches everyone else "bug it." She didn't mean that as a compliment, BTW.) I go to such fan message boards sometimes and read what people write, and in their posts I see clear reflections of this "my team" behavior I am talking about.

At the political level, you get the sort of Freeper post that takes even mild questioning of their chosen team leader's perfection as an attack on themselves that needs to be answered with massive force--even to the point of sending terroristic threats through the mail and risking many years in prison. I even see some of it here on DU, in posts that tout or attack specific Democratic politicians, or in posts that defend the worst sort of police brutality, just because the poster considers the police "team" to be the side he is on in that particular "fight."

This mindset transfers to just about anything one can identify with as one's team.

Soon after we invaded Iraq, a young woman I know (a former student) wrote about how angry she was with a history teacher who likened our invasion of a country that had resources we wanted to the Athenian invasion of Sicily, a debacle that precipitated the decline of the Athenian empire.

She said in her email to me: "I am going to drop that course. I won't stay in a classroom with someone like that. If you attack my country you attack me, and he has just attacked me!"

[vssmith]

28. It takes courage to admit mistakes

Bush confuses obstinate bull-headedness with strength

[understandinglife]

34. "... and rigidly arrogant, more aggressively suspicious, megolomanic ones."

I think you and our fellow DUers will find the post that contains that quote from David Shapiro's 1965 classic in a blog post by at firedoglake timely - both regarding the context of this thread and because of the nature of the criminals currently occupying the People's House.

Happy Thanksgiving,

Bob

[femrap]

36. That's OK by me.

Peace takes courage.

[WinkyDink]

44. No offense, but I think that's the problem in the first place, at least

with the Chickenhawks.

[shance]

18. They make is sound like "winning" in Iraq is a glorified football game.

All wars are based in deceit.

All of them.

There is no winning in war.

At the heart of every war is lies and deceit of the people and what is true.

Every single war.

The racist, misogynistic, privileged white males repeat a mantra of "Victory" and many of the citizens willingly and lazily trumpet the words winning and victory.

Who's victory?

The over $650,000 murdered corpses in Iraq? The 3,000 troops killed for Bush Sr and his cronies?

Are they victorious?

And for those of us who will foot the Bush family bill, how is that a victory for us?

[durtee librul]

30. Bush

was taught by fright white momma to only win...nothing else counted or you would be considered a loser. So he continues on until he 'wins' and no matter how he spins it, he already is a loser. Hell, he was a loser when he took his first breath.

All he knows is that he has to be considered the victor, no matter what the cost or what the outcome, as long as HE is the victor. Pure and simple.

I just cannot fathom how his parents can continue to stick up for this jackass. My kids make mistakes too, but when they are wrong, they still hear about it - LOUD and CLEAR. Bushes' have no morals and are the biggest hypocrites this earth has ever seen.

[Chimichurri]

43. The People accept the reality - Nov 7th was testament to that

It's the profiteering companies - Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Poppy Bush included who are pillaging tax dollars and making a fortune off this war. They will squeeze that monkey til someone literally forces their grip off. The democrats must stand up and cut funding or they will continue the send soldiers to die for a lie.

The American people did their duty by voting the status quo out - now it's up the to the dems to do what's right - despite the names the republicans will call them.

[Virginian]

4. Yesterday he was on Scarborough - same topic...

He was trying to get across to the others that the people who created this war were too scared to go to Viet Nam but they freely send the children of others to Iraq.

All kids need to give back to their country and the draft wouldn't be such a bad idea. We already have an economic draft. The poor enlist when there is no other job for them.

He was very strong on the topic and said the Bush twins should be over there.

Scarborough tried to cut him off a couple of times and the neo-con tried to get in the talking points but Lawrence O'Donnell talked over them and corrected them. Scar was a little miffed that he had pushed the "on" button on that topic and gave up trying to stop him.

[understandinglife]

5. Yes. Here's the video from that session.

[malaise]

37. O'Donnell was fabulous

He nailed them.

[pacalo]

6. I saw it. O'Donnell represents those who are disgusted with the moral collapse

of the U.S., thanks to those war-loving chickenhawks who talk the "we're the party of values" talk but don't walk the walk.

O'Donnell said that he hopes Pelosi allows Rangel's draft bill to be debated on the floor. It won't have any chance of being passed, he said, but it deserves a debate. It would be interesting to hear the Republicans' "reasoning" for voting against it, wouldn't it? I can just imagine the sound bites it would provide for the "Daily Show" & the "Colbert Report".

[aquart]

7. Sure. Like we did after VietNam.

58,000 of our young men dead.......and I will never know how many Viet Namese. But Kissinger is still a free, poisonous man.

[WinkyDink]

45. Sought after for advice, no less!! A war criminal!

[tridim]

10. I just got done watching 'V For Vendetta' for the first time

Lets just say your post hit me right smack upside the head.

As you said, "Time to make it stop", all of it.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

11. Lawrence O'Donnell is a coward!

Now let's see how many people read past the subject line.

Tuesday on Al Franken's show, O'Donnell stated that he is a coward when it comes to military service, so he has forfeited any right to ask others to fight on his behalf. He said all the other things he has repeated so powerfully since; but as he had more time with Franken, he illustrated his point by characterizing his own reaction to the prospect of military service in Viet Nam as cowardice.

That was brave of O'Donnell to admit. He didn't cite moral objections or pacifist beliefs. He said he was scared of fighting and maybe dying. I don't blame him. It's a damn scary thing - something that, as a woman, I never had to worry about being asked to do.

But by calling himself a coward O'Donnell did two important things. He earned the right to apply the same label to chickenhawks. And he stripped away the philosophical discussion about whether continuing to fight in Iraq is right or wrong to reveal the raw flesh underneath - the very real flesh of the very real men and women whose bravery is being misused on a war that can't be won.

No wonder he was moved to tears.

[roody]

27. Isn't O'Donnell on the young side of

the Vietnam draft? Born in 1955.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

31. Guys didn't just start worrying on their 18th birthday

Especially if you had older brothers, you started thinking about it pretty young.

My brothers were born 1950, 55 and 60. Dad - a vet and not a pacifist - said he would send them all to Canada if any of them were called. There was no telling, in 68, when the war was going to end.

[JDPriestly]

42. 18 in 1973 -- War ended in 1975.

[July]

48. Don't remember all the details now, but

I know those born in '55 didn't get called up. We were all worried about my brother, born that year, but though the war continued till '75, he didn't even get a lottery number, IIRC. I think the '55-ers were the first to escape the lottery.

[understandinglife]

32. "That was brave of O'Donnell to admit." Exceptional honesty.

I admire him more today than a year ago, and I admired him a lot, then.

Thank you,

Bob


BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION - 24/7

[puebloknot]

12. Stirring post! Recommended.

Yes, we must remember who we are -- that we are citizens of America. More than that, we must remember that we are above all members of the human family. "Let the word go forth..." (remembering and paraphrasing JFK) "...that America is battered and bruised, but she is not defeated, and she will not rest until she has cleansed her house of evil.

[Philosoraptor]

14. we are all in a very sad chapter of our history

[The Backlash Cometh]

15. Well, what happened to us? We have stupid relatives who think

that it's okay to sacrifice a few kids over there, so we can eat our turkey in peace over here. Bush created boogeymans which we must now deal with, if we aren't able to control our own fears.

[WinkyDink]

46. Like the ancient sacrifices of children to have good harvests..

[IndyOp]

16. UL - Which part of "Out Now" do people not understand?

"Out" or "Now"

The best we have right now is Kerry-Feingold - out by June '07.

I am dismayed by Biden and Levin - who say that 6 months from now, then we can set a timeline.

I was dismayed by Clark's statements this week that we can't set any timeline, we have to engage in shuttle-diplomacy for a period of time before we can set a timeline.

We cannot turn our backs from the horror we have created.

We must engage in diplomacy - BUT NOT AS THE LEADER WHO SETS THE TERMS. War criminals don't get to lead.

We must provide financial support to the League of Arab Nations so they can send in peace-keeping troops and we can get out. Give us one month to get as much shit out of the country as we can. We - um, can't get the goddamn bases out and we sure as FUCK do not get to keep troops on them. None. Out. Total loss for the U.S. Deep humiliation. No more footprint in the Mideast. Most likely, the U.S. military is shattered.

Begin now.

OUT. -- Lose, leave everything that can't be moved in one month - time for LAN to get their peace keepers in to the country.

NOW. -- Now.

[understandinglife]

33. Bob Johnson: "The awful truth and the cowards who ignore it."

<clip>

It is not cutting and running.

America did this to Iraq. We divided Iraqis. We set them at war with each other. The least we can do is stop killing them and leave Iraq.

The consequences of a failed Iraq state no longer rely on our presence in Iraq.

Leaders are not those who hide behind empty rhetoric and false promises at times like these. What we have seen from both parties is cowardice in the face of reality. John McCain's hollow call for more troops at a time when it is clear that Iraqi military and police units will never be loyal to a government we can tolerate is perhaps the supreme act of cowardice -- committing more of our troops and resources to a lost cause as a political ploy.

We need leaders. Honest leaders. This sad chapter in our history has ended badly. But we must be brave enough to admit that it has, indeed, ended.

Out.Now means OUT ... NOW

All our presence means and will ever mean is expanding the original catastrophic crime of planning and participating in a war of aggression.

All our presence means is more death, more destruction, more hatred, more lies, more broken bodies and minds.

No good will come from even one more minute of an American combatant or mercenary being present in Iraq.

We need to exit NOW and we need to apologize and make reparations NOW and for DECADES to come.

And, We need to care for our veterans as we've never cared for them before.

And, We need to prosecute those among us who are the criminals responsible for all the damage to Iraq that Nir Rosen so comprehensively details.

Thank you for your excellent comments, Indy,

Bob

[ChittyChittyBangBang]

19. Actually I think he is still crying about Fitzgerald

not indicting Karl Rove.

[Jade Fox]

21. The war in Vietnam was stuck at this point for years....

Leaving meant those who had died did so for nothing, and staying meant more would die. This is why those of us old enough to remember Vietnam could not get our chins off the ground when it became clear that Bushco was determined to create a similar nightmare in Iraq. We knew exactly how it would turn out, and goddammit we were right. :cry:

[graywarrior]

22. Watched that interview yesterday, and it really shook me to the core

I'm still thinking about it today, even before I saw this post, which I want to thank you for.

[mzmolly]

23. How can we say if we can win or not if the goal hasn't been clearly

defined? I wish that we could articulate this better somehow.

Not to distract from the main point LD was making which of course is as tragic as the war itself.

[roody]

24. Excuse my extreme ignorance.

Who is Lawrence O'Donnell?

[ginnyinWI]

25. he's a journalist and comments on tv frequently,

and is a regular on McLaughlin Group (PBS). He also was a producer for West Wing.

[roody]

26. Thanks. Found this at wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_O'Donnell

[bleever]

29. It was a precious moment of heartfelt candor.

Lawrence O'Donnell was speaking for me, too. I was grateful.

Peace.

[understandinglife]

35. You are special, my friend.

I hope you and your family are having as good an Thanksgiving as possible during these very demanding times for our Republic.

Peace,
Bob


BE AMERICA. ---

[eleny]

38. Thank you for posting - I wondered what was up with him

His eyes looked full and his voice didn't have that firm but quiet assertive tone we've come to expect from him. LO'D gets it. It's time for the administration to stop treating soldiers and Iraqis as political foder or window dressing.

[butterfly77]

39. Does any one have it on tape...

[StrictlyRockers]

40. We have already lost this war. The longer it goes on, the bigger we lose. nm

[aquart]

41. Yup.

But denial is all these bozos can do well.

[pink-o]

47. you wanna know the most tragic aspect of all????

we've fuckin BEEN here before!!! It was called Vietnam! Same story: a war based on lies, put forth for political and ecomonic gains, then as we watched it descend into a qWagmire, those in power dithered about how we couldn't leave without losing face. In the meantime, while issues of pride were debated, more and more soldiers died or came home maimed, or were never the same psychologically--as the American people either ignored or dissed them.

Not to mention the civilian casualites in a country that never showed us an iota of aggression. Anyone who doesn't believe Iraq is Vietnam 2.0 is fooling themselves.

So how stupid, insane, heinous et al do American Idiots have to be to not only to jump into a war of lies, BUT TO DO IT FOR THE SECOND TIME IN 3 DECADES!!!!!! Are our memories really that short?

Cut and run? Damn fucking straight, we cut and run--bring our troops home, send Baghdad an international coalition (a REAL one) to help them heal and rebuild, and NOT ALLOW ANOTHER LIFE TO BE LOST TO THIS LIE!!!