Michael Richards’ hecklers want to sue him

[Fountain79]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15855423/

The controversy surrounding Michael Richards’ racist rant continues to swirl.

On Wednesday, Access Hollywood learned the former “Seinfeld” star reached out to civil rights leaders Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton in another attempt to apologize for his behavior.

However, the targets of his rage — Kyle Doss and Frank McBride — have also reached out to someone — tenacious lawyer Gloria Allred.

[musette_sf]

1. aww geez

some people need to, like, never go to a comedy club, like, ever.

these two wads need a nice big cup of STFU. they got their 5 minutes and Richards' career is likely over. The End.

[montana500]

2. Hmm..these two guys heckle and disturb Richard's show, and want to sue him when he responds?

Richards to me is an angry racist, but these goofs *did* insult the guy , which started this situation. And now they want to sue?

Ridiculous.

[goclark]

7. We are not the judge or the jury

Why does a progressive board feel that suing should not be done when it comes to Blacks suing for anything?

It is sure not African Americans that WIN it is the drug companies and big corporate people.

Let's talk about the horror of Kenny Boy Lay and Trent Lott.

Why must we verbally punish these two young men for even mentioning the word SUE?

[Hav]

8. .

Oh come on, please don't frame the subject in such a way as if people don't support these two guys in their attempts to sue someone just because they happen to be black or that people here object to it everytime a coloured person sues.

[Karenina]

52. FYI

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/21/AR2006112101886.html

Kramer's Tirade, Adding Insult to Inaccuracy

By Amy Argetsinger and Roxanne Roberts
Wednesday, November 22, 2006; C03

Hey, funnyman: You nailed the wrong guy.

That's what Darryl Pitts would like to tell Michael Richards, the "Seinfeld" star who spewed racist slurs at an African American man after his stand-up gig at a Los Angeles comedy club was interrupted last Friday.

The irony of the insult, according to audience member Pitts: It wasn't the black guy who interrupted him. The black man sat next to the alleged heckler. Pitts told our colleague Darryl Fears the two were in a group of roughly 10 people who ambled into the Laugh Factory during Richards's routine. The comic ordered them to shut up, then asked, " 'What are you talking about?' "

The black guy spoke up: "My friend doesn't think you're funny." The loud-talking friend "was maybe Arab or Hispanic but not black," said Pitts, who was not part of the group. "The way it's been portrayed is that a group of black guys came to the club and were disorderly . . . and that's inaccurate, absolutely."

[Hav]

60. .

Thanks, I didn't know that and I assume that we all agree that Richards has some serious issues. If he can't deal with this kind of things, then he has no place on a stage.
On the other side, it doesn't really change what I addressed, I think.

If they want to sue and if they think they have a case, then nobody prevents them from doing so. I, for example, believe that one can can get sued for an insult. But I'm not an American and I don't know whether that's the case in all countries.
I just didn't agree with the unfair conclusions the poster above me made about the posters in this thread.


on edit: I read post #2 again and I now understand the reason for your article.

[Fountain79]

9. So because these two men are black...

I am not supposed to look critically upon their lawsuit. Geez...that sounds racist.

[Karenina]

61. Richards "nailed" the WRONG GUYS.

But we ALL know ALL those non-pasty-skinned folks ALL look alike. :eyes:

[mondo joe]

12. Who said blacks shouldn't sue? I'd support any black person for any legitimate

lawsuit - a person of any other color as well.

But a frivolous lawsuit is still frivolous.

[MrModerate]

30. Excuse me, but how do you make the superhuman leap . . .

From a deranged comic spewing bile no worse than any other seen on the same stage by performers of all colors to drug companies and corporations screwing black people?

I think that progressives are well within their rights to object to baseless lawsuits, regardless of the source. I've seen the tape. The level of injury to anyone in the room doesn't -- IMO -- call for a lawsuit.

It was ugly, but most grownups are able to put ugliness in context. Car bombs in Iraq -- that's ugly; comedians bombing in LA -- not so important.

[demosincebirth]

39. I agree with you

They are the ones who precipitated Richard's racist tirade and they want to sue? Its like poking a dog with a stick and suing the owner because the dog bit them. Best to leave well enough alone. Richards career is most likely over, now.

[goclark]

3. And ~ if they want to sue it is a free country

they have a right to do so.

I saw them interviewed three times and in my view they talked about more than just suing.

This is about the 5th thread that is focused on the "suing" instead of the horrible deed done by Richards.

DU seems to love being judge and jury when it comes to these kinds of issues.

[Fountain79]

5. Horrible deed?

Jesus.....Did he lynch them? Did he burn a cross? No he used a ridiculously wrong word on stage which is indicative of his inexperience and his inability of a stand-up comic. The fact that they think they have a need to sue him for some words said are indicative of an unfortunate part of our culture that feels the need to sue over trivial things. Such lawsuits diminish the importance of actual important litigation.

[goclark]

13. See my post below

And I'm sure that you could not possibly understand it from an African American perspective, I can tell that from your post.

However,from the vision of my African American friends and my friends of other races, it is HORRIBLE.

[Fountain79]

15. Not more than 15 minutes into the thread...

and the race card has been thrown down! Score! I have no doubt that the "N" word has a much more profound impact on you than "wetback' has on me. However if I was called a wetback or spic by a comedian on stage I would likely walk out, raise a huge stink with the local media and insure that the comedian would never get called back to that location. I wouldn't try to make a quick buck out of it like these two men are doing.

[musette_sf]

6. Richards' career is over

isn't that enough? he was unprofessional, unprepared, and he acted out and got waaaaay outta line.

hardly a "horrible" deed, 'cept for the fact that no one can ever watch a Seinfeld episode anymore without getting the creeps when Kramer is in the scene.

the hecklers got their 5 minutes. geez, d'ya also want Streisand's "hecklers" to sue her too for her "horrible deed(s)"?

[goclark]

10. Streisand's "heckler's" have every right to sue her

It is not about who sues in America it is about who wins.

Yes, it was a horrible deed that he did ~

In the eyes of this African American woman it is HORRIBLE in 2006 that anyone would take liberties such as that in a public setting.

In your eyes it may not be horrible,but don't attempt to change my view or the views of my ancestors.

[musette_sf]

14. if anyone were lionizing what Richards did

i might have some point of agreement with you. but no sane person thinks this is a good thing.

the ppl involved also could have chosen to leave the club before Richards melted down even more. they and he continued to engage with each other. there's enough woulda coulda shoulda to go all around here.

Senator Macacawitz, or Pat Buchanan, for example, deserve your wrath and indignation far more than a washed-up actor with mental and/or substance abuse issues, and putatively deep pockets.

[goclark]

56. You don't pick who deserves my wrath, I do

End of discussion

[mondo joe]

11. They have a right to a frivolous lawsuit, true.

And Richards' horrible deed doesn't mitigate their opportunism.

[greyl]

4. I'd bet Allred reached out to them.

There's no one named Gloria I like less.

[MrSlayer]

16. As I said before, this is idiotic.

Name calling is not a punitive damage. Any sane judge would dismiss this suit out of hand.

[Leftisalwaysright]

17. A little bit much...

He should apologize to them in person, but a law suit is a bit much, especially when the rant was in response to their heckling.

[4bucksagallon]

18. Sheeeeeeeesh thin skinned, these people better never join the military................

if you want to hear insults you should hear what a Marine Corp D.I. can spew, and I don't hear anyone suing the military. Get a life would be my theory. Brings to mind a joke, Q. what do you call 1000 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean, A. a good start.

[Neshanic]

19. Free speech, not pretty at times Gloria. Kramer is kook, pre-screen all comedy routines Gloria.

Better yet, get a commercial on the air Gloria.

"Comedy Club victim? Call me!"

[Imagevision]

20. "SEINFELD" reruns may suffer a bit, - or get more popular??

[shance]

21. I think they should frankly. White male prejudice and racism is

continually tolerated in our society from promoting taser usage in innocent citizens, to targetting, tracking and hating anyone who dares to criticize those who abuse their power and who are clearly the racist themselves.

Richards, while he may be a nice guy to Jerry Seinfeld who has been his employer, totally and inappropriately embarrassed, viciously attacked, and humiliated those individuals, who the white male press made sure to emphatically state they were hecklers.

Really?

What was so horrible that these hecklers said?

Isnt it on video as well?

Or is this going to be a kind of Cynthia McKinney accusation and blame the so called "hecklers" for what was clearly on the video Richards spewing irrational, ridiculous, vicious comments.

Is the press conveniently leaving the hecklers comments out due to "National Security" reasons?

[mondo joe]

22. The question would be what is the basis for their suit - what are the damages?

Being insulting, being hateful, being offensive - none of these are adequate as a basis.

[shance]

31. That's fair Joe. However what saddens me is the total lack of accounting

of how Black Americans (Native Americans, Japanese Americans, Muslim Americans, Female Americans, I could go on and on) have been treated and what abuse and bullshit frankly, they have had to endure from a society that deems many white privileged males superior to everyone else. Which is ironic because so many of these privileged white males achieved what they have by exploiting others and those from other races, gender and creed.

I believe this sort of 'white superiority complex' has bred reactions like this from Mr. Richards.

My belief is its largely up to us to help educate friends and family to apply some empathy, and open their eyes a little more, when looking at situations where abuse occurs to those who are non-whites.

Sure verbal assaults can happen to anyone of us. What Richards did, deserves some type of accountability I think.

[mondo joe]

36. Separate issues.

The abuse minorities have and do face is one issue.

The legitimate basis of a lawsuit is another.

What Richards' did was certainly offensive, even, abusive, but yet it is protected free speech.

[Fountain79]

23. So tolerated in our society?

I guarantee you if this had been a black performer calling two white hecklers honkeys or crackers than this would not have gotten the same media attention. Hell half of the black comedians in existance survive on jokes about white people.

[shance]

26. You're implying it was a joke. Fountain. Think about it. That was no joke.

Richards admitted it himself.

We know the reality of history.

Not all that long ago there were racist white men would lynch black men for no other reason than they were black.

Richards statement that fifty years ago they would have been hung upside down with a fork up their a**, isn't just jovial humor. It was sinister and actually painful that he would say such things.

I'm an White Anglo-Protestant female, but I know a racist assault when I see one. And frankly to this day, I'm baffled at this unwarranted hatred by a lot of white males. I come from Texas and I've seen it before.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shance]

53. Absolutely. Just like gay individuals might call themselves dykes or fags.

To them, it is a term they can laughingly or endearingly use.

They are not using it in order to degrade, inflict harm or slander. They are using it with other gays as a term of belonging in a sense.

BIG difference in how those who have been persecuted themselves by the terms use it, versus those who have used it to persecute and inflict harm on those who are the victim.

[a la izquierda]

24. Oh good lord.

Richards is an angry racist, that is certainly for sure. He did not physically assault anyone. I think it is insane that these guys are going to sue. For what? Pain and suffering from a verbal assault? Give me a break. I'd have been appalled sitting in that audience. I'm white and what Richards said is WRONG, but one needs to have thicker skin than this for cripes' sake. Boycott RIchards' shows, etc., but suing is asinine, IMO.:eyes:

[shance]

28. So you think they ought to just merrily laugh off Richards saying

'fifty years ago theyd be hung upside down with a (pitch)fork up their ass" and then viciously, almost accusingly screaming at them that they are "niggers". As if there is something wrong with them being black.

So they are thin skinned? Give me a break. It appears all to clear that Mr. White boy, intolerant Richards who can't stand anyone who is not like him. There is something seriously wrong with someone who is cannot tolerate differences, and has to inflict harm on others simply because they don't happen to look the same.

The press claims Richards was heckled. Really? If it was so bad, then give us the quotes.

I'm a white and female, and that is so much easier for either you or I to say who have not experienced any realm of what its like to be black in this culture.

[mondo joe]

38. They can react any way they like. Even by filing an absursd lawsuit.

The legality of the matter has nothing to do with race.

[a la izquierda]

48. Mr. White Boy?!

Oh gosh, that's just ridiculous. He's racist. Everybody knows it now. He made himself look like a complete effin' ignoramus. But, I think it's completely nuts that they're suing over WORDS! Yes, they're hurtful, but FYI, you have no idea what I am besides white-I am fully aware of what African Americans have experienced in this society. Being called the "n" word and having an unbelievable barrage of horrific comments is in no way acceptable. But sue-worthy? Let 'em sue if they really want. This society is full of litigious people that sue for asinine things...I'd throw out their lawsuit if I was a judge.
Don't assume that I don't know discrimination.

[shance]

55. I will assume that neither you or I have any idea what it's like to be black

in this society.

I doubt you and I have any idea what it is like to be judged by the color of our skin by others when we walk out the door. Think about it, how could we if we haven't had that experience?

That is my opinion and that is what I have observed in my forty years of living on planet earth. I have seen a lot of prejudice and in my ignorance I have been prejudicial at times, however unintentionally.

Frankly I believe we all have been prejudicial in some way because it has been so heavily instilled in our culture. It feeds and grows from from ignorance, insulation and isolation from other groups and cultures and a lack of understanding what others are experiencing.

I may be judged for being female, however I honestly can say I don't know what its like to be discriminated based on literally the color of my skin. It has been a conditioning and brainwashing in our society and I think we need to be addressing it more because it has caused so much unecessary separation and harm.

[baby_mouse]

25. This is a BIT silly.

Suing people for calilng you names????

[acmejack]

27. Of course they do...

[bluestateguy]

29. Having your feelings hurt does not give you the right to be made independently wealthy

Why do I get the feeling that if some amateur comedian said the N-word to them in a show, that there would be no lawsuit.

[shance]

32. Have you taken a look at how people have gotten "wealthy" in this country.

For a lot less than "hurt feelings".

Have you considered how many wealthy privileged individuals got wealthy off of the backs of African men and women?

Thats a heck of a lot worse than "hurt feelings" wouldnt you say?

[bluestateguy]

33. You are absolutely right

But unfortunatley, that has nothing to do with the case we are talking about here. Such arguments would be laughed out of court if Ms. Allred's suit goes forward.

[shance]

35. Why? Why should that be laughable?

It's only laughable to those who are not listening to the truth.

The abuse inflicted on so many groups of individuals by rich, racist, misogynistic white males should not be funny, because its not funny. At all.

[bluestateguy]

37. Did I say it was laughable?

What he said was offensive and mean-spirited.

How that entitles two men in the audience to be made rich is beyond me.

[jollyreaper2112]

34. ugh

That's just stupid. If I went out in the street and started shouting "nigger" at everyone who passed by, I'd STILL not be committing a crime. I'd look like a total ass but that's not against the law. If someone took exception to what I was saying and struck me, then HE would be breaking the law.

It is NOT against the law to say "nigger." That is your right to free speech. The thing is, there can be consequences to that right. If my employer sees me screaming obscenities at people on the street, he can choose to terminate me. Florida is an at-will employment state so he doesn't even have to tell me why I'm fired.

Personally, I think social sanctions are the perfect way to deal with this sort of thing. I would say that Richards' career is probably finished. (I say probably because even OJ is still making money after a double-homicide.) The infamy of this outrage will be living with Richards for the rest of his life. That's a pretty good punishment. For these men to now sue him for calling them names, that just makes them look ignorant.

Call me a raging lib but I think mockery works better than lawsuits in these cases, even when talking about pigs like Limbaugh and O'Reilly. Do I want to see those douches silenced with a court order or do I want to see them skewered by Olbermann after their faux pas du jour? I'll take Olbermann any day. It's fighting ideas with ideas, words with words. That's what free speech and democracy are all about.

[Ninja Jordan]

40. It would be a civil suit dealing with intentional infliction of emotional distess

not free speech.

[mondo joe]

41. You'll have to look long and hard to find any precedent for emotional

distress caused by a racial slur uttered by a comedian on stage.

[Ninja Jordan]

42. the video is pretty damning

thats what the plaintiff's attorney is banking on.

[mondo joe]

43. Pretty damning of WHAT? It's not illegal to say the *N* word.

It's not illegal to be a racist.

What are their damages that they seek to be compensated for?

[Ninja Jordan]

45. The illegality isnt the question! Emotional distress is a TORT claim

the question is whether Richards' words were so beyond the pale as to convince a jury that the victims should be compensated for their emotional harm.

[mondo joe]

46. But they'd have to show damages. What are the damages for which they

seek compensation?

[Ninja Jordan]

47. i'm not a Californian, and I don't know what kind of damages are required

Different states have different requirements. I'm fairly certain that CA is pretty loose about the damages requirement. Some jurisdictions require that the emotional distress result from some sort of physical injury, other jurisdictions require that the emotional distress result from the victim being in a 'zone of physical danger.' California's jurisprudence in this area, as evidenced by the initiation of this lawsuit, is probably pretty loose. As I noted earlier, the video is damning, as it shows the event in its entirety. So many IIED cases fail because the information is disseminated to the jury in a second hand manner. Not the case here....

[mondo joe]

49. They'd have QUITE an uphill battle.

They'd have to demonstrate that Richards had intent to cause emotional distress, and severe or extreme emotional distress on their part directly as a result.

[Ninja Jordan]

51. Most jurisdictions allow "recklessness" to satisfy the intent requirement

In the least, Richards was reckless in his causing of emotional distress. His rant was not a part of his act.

The two issues that make it hard for the plaintiffs are:

(1) the actual behavior must be so beyond the pale as to shock the conscience (the video, again, shows the audience members literally gasping, "oh my god" etc.), and

(2) damages; the black men are going to have to show some sort of emotional harm; it can't be a speculative injury.

[Skip Intro]

44. This is flat out rediculous. What crime are they suing him for?

What the hell are they going to sue him for? What crime did he commit? Its not a crime, what he did. Disgusting, yeah, but what are they going to sue him for doing? What are the charges? Being disgusting in public? Hell, if that's a crime, arrest bush and cheny and the gang. This is silly.

a quote from the article:

“We want the retired judge to make a recommendation on how much Michael Richards should pay to compensate our clients,” added Allred.

for what, being insulted?

If I sound unsympathetic, I don't mean to be. That was a sick dispay by Richards, and I understand, as much as I can, the offensiveness of it.

But this chapter of the thing is just rediculous.

[LittleClarkie]

54. I'm trying to picture suing someone every time they inflict emotional distress on me

I'd be rich, I tell you, rich.

I'd be suing some of y'all, in fact.

The guys at work.

The guys down to the pub, esp. the one that called me a Communist.

Most of the kids I went to school with who called me "Erica the Elephant".

[Tatiana]

57. I don't think it's a good idea.

I mean, obviously, the hecklers want to get back at Richards for his hateful comments and it's likely that Allred just wants to be back in the public eye. But suing the man is not going to help the situation much.

Sure, it'll give the hecklers a bit more $$$ than they had before (after a likely settlement), but Richards will not have resolved or dealt with the issue(s) that caused him to make those statements in the first place.

We have freedom of speech and as disgusting and profane as the comments Richards made, he was free to make them.

[shance]

58. Perhaps not a lawsuit, but some sort of restitution is in order.

Like a public apology directly to those men who he attacked at his show.

It would be nice to see some sign of willingness to try and be kind to those he harmed would be a start.

This wasn't a casual flipping of the fingers.

This went deep. Very deep.

Deep into a place of entitled prejudice by some who truly seem to hate and want to harm those who are somehow different than they are.

Telling two in his audience they'd fifty years ago they'd be hung upside down with a fork in their "ass" and then calling them nigger over and over deserves more than an opportunity to go on David Letterman for another acting performance of just how sick you are over the whole incident.

[mondo joe]

59. Restitution for what damages?

Seriously.

If you mean he should be compelled legally, you ought to have a legal basis.

If you just mean he should do something of his own free will, that is another matter.

[Kellyiswise]

62. This would be one of the most ridiculous law suits of all time.

the heclkers were ill-mannered and Richards was wrong to attack with such remarks but a law suit from either party is totally ridiculous. Richards could easily sue them saying that their heckling drove him to make extreme remarks and runied his career.

[hsher]

63. I'm embarrassed

As a black person, I think this is silly. So whom do we sue next, Edgar Rice Burroughs and the producers of "Tarzan" films? THOSE were pretty racist, and maligned an entire continent.

Hopefully, the eventually thickening of the American skin will continue because of exactly this kind of silliness. I just hope it doesn't energize sites like Stormfront, and the arguments of their following. I'd take a peek and see what supremacists are saying about this story... but I just don't have the stomach for it. Stormfront is a place I just can't lurk and spy on anymore. It's a level of hate I simply don't understand, and which assaults me on the cell level.