More on the Atlanta shooting of an elderly woman during a drug raid

[madmusic]

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution has an article today entitled Probe sought in police shooting of woman, by Bill Montgomery. (The previous post with an update is here.) The AJC article mentions that it was a no-knock warrant, but the AJC has been unable to find out why the police claimed the need for such a warrant because the courts will not release the affidavit, despite its status as a public record. By hiding it, the Atlanta court system is only making things worse for the police department. They need to let it all out now, and help clear the air.

more: http://fourthamendment.com/blog/index.php?blog=1&title=more_on_the_atlanta_shooting_of_an_elder&more

[OneBlueSky]

1. important constitutional issues here . . . thanx . . . kicked/recommended . . . n/t

.

[krispos42]

2. Looks like the judge was too lax on the no-knock warrant

If the judge issued a no-knock warrant but should not have, then the police activities might well be ruled unconstitutional, which puts the cops and the courts in hot water.

The story states the police announced themselves before busting in, and they were wearing bulletproof vests with "POLICE" on the front and back, yet without knowing the status of either Miss Johnson's hearing or sight, she might not have been able to hear the announcement, only the breaking of the door. And with unknown (to her) strangers kicking in her door, she grabbed the gun and fired as soon as she had a target. If the lighting was poor (and it was 7pm in November, 90 minutes after sunset), she might not have seen the vests, either.

Rising and setting times for the Sun

Date Sunrise Sunset Daylight Difference Solar noon Altitude Distance (10⁶km)
Nov 25, 2006 7:19 AM 5:30 PM 10h 11m 08s − 1m 13s 12:25 PM 35.4° 147.658
Nov 26, 2006 7:20 AM 5:30 PM 10h 09m 57s − 1m 11s 12:25 PM 35.2° 147.630
Nov 27, 2006 7:21 AM 5:30 PM 10h 08m 48s − 1m 08s 12:25 PM 35.1° 147.602
Nov 28, 2006 7:22 AM 5:29 PM 10h 07m 41s − 1m 06s 12:26 PM 34.9° 147.575
Nov 29, 2006 7:23 AM 5:29 PM 10h 06m 37s − 1m 04s 12:26 PM 34.7° 147.549
Nov 30, 2006 7:23 AM 5:29 PM 10h 05m 36s − 1m 01s 12:26 PM 34.6° 147.523
Dec 1, 2006 7:24 AM 5:29 PM 10h 04m 36s − 0m 59s 12:27 PM 34.4° 147.498

All times are in local time for Atlanta

Okay, the formatting is a little weird, but the column titles are in the right order, if not quite in the right spot.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/city.html?n=25

[Rainscents]

5. I am 51 and I have very bad hearing.

And this lady was 92. She probably had very bad eye sights too. Like the column states, Police most likely made up address and name of the person and also, drug dealing never took place in the first place. Police definitely is hiding something!

[The Straight Story]

30. Good post and an important point.

Thanks!

[Mugu]

14. There are LEOs that feel that they should be able to enter any building

or vehicle that they wish at any time to pursue crime. Then there are people who strongly believe in the whole “my home is my castle” thing. When the two of them come face to face, something bad is going happen.

I have read many accounts of gunfights, some from the old-west, some during wartime, and others of modern-day LEOs. The one thing that never ceases to amaze me is the phenomenon of audio-exclusion and tunnel vision that occurs during fight-or-flight situations. Many participants claim that during the fight they only remember seeing the fire on the muzzle of their adversaries weapon and heard little or no sound.

Many thought that when attempting to return fire that their weapon was misfiring because of no audible blast and no felt recoil even while the weapon was working correctly.

Others claimed that they counted their shots and quit pulling the trigger upon firing their allocated ammunition. But witnesses testified that the shooter continued stroking the trigger on the weapon for some seconds after the fight was settled and the weapon was empty.

In a dark house, with flashlights shining in peoples faces in the dead of night, uniforms can be unseen and verbal commands can be unheard. Add to that the fact that a 92YO woman tagged three officers before being neutralized. No matter how that ends, it's going to be embarrassing.

There has to be better way of taking down suspects than early morning invasions by the police into somebodies “Castle.”

Regards,

Mugu

[Greyhound]

17. "There has to be better way of taking down suspects..."

That is exactly the problem. We began a policy of escalation, like so many other horrible mistakes, under the raygun court. A few of us the time were saying that escalation will only result in more escalation, or as Gandhi said "an eye for an eye, leaves the whole world blind".

[seabeyond]

18. it is that slippery slope that so many deny exists. it is very clear to

me. progression..... simple enough. good or bad

[Greyhound]

24. Demonstrating the truth of this is simple, point them to who runs the drug

operations in the U.S. and how they do it, compared to what was before.

Did anybody actually believe that these guys would just walk away from the billions and billions of $$ just because we started killing peasants in their countries?

[Katzenjammer]

20. Please don't minimize what happened. She wasn't "neutralized"

She was shot dead.

[RamboLiberal]

31. I wonder what the lighting in the house was too and if this lady

was awoken out of sleep. A previous article mentioned she habitually went to bed between 5-6PM. Wonder if the house was dark or dimly lit.

And if the cops came in with their gun lights or high-powered flashlights I can guarantee anyone looking in to those lights would be essentially blinded and could not see the POLICE written on their vests. Those lights are designed to "blind" anyone they are shined on. She probably shot at their lights thereby hitting them.

Here's blurb on one of the most popular lights - Surefire.

Compact (palm size) high-intensity incandescent flashlight for tactical, self-defense, and general use. Produces a smooth, brilliant, pre-focused tactical-level beam with four times the light of a big two D-cell flashlight — bright enough to temporarily blind and disorient a person by impairing his night-adapted vision.

http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/889/sesent/00

[951-Riverside]

3. What is the judge's name?

[madmusic]

6. Not sure, there are links at the link.

Might be in there.

EDIT: he is the lawyer that argued before the SCOTUS against the no-knock.

In my oral argument in Wilson v. Arkansas in 1995, I suggested (maybe even stated) that a small quantity of drugs would not support dispensing with announcement because of the gravity of the crime weighed against the interest of the individual. Justice Scalia did not think much of that argument, and he shot it down as soon as I said it.

Link to that case from his blog.

EDIT and correction: he didn't argue the recent case that decided it once and for all, but mentioned it in 1995.

[Azathoth]

4. This is the first time I've seen confirmation that it was a no-knock warrant

As someone who caught a lot of hell on DU for standing up for the cops while many of the facts were unknown, I now wash my hands of them. They, and the Atlanta PD, deserve what they get.

[madmusic]

7. Is it that certain?

"The Atlanta Journal-Constution has been unable to independently confirm the police account about the need for the no-knock warrant because it has not been able to read the sworn statement police provided to a judge to obtain the warrant."

It sure looks like it was a no-knock, but that hasn't be confirmed. The big question is, why did they go to that house? Did the dealer point to it and say, "I live there" or something?

Very strange.

[Alpharetta]

8. Channel 46 news said undercover did a buy there earlier that day

Channel 46 (local CBS) reported APD stated undercover police had bought drugs in that house earlier in the day.

[IndyOp]

9. I hope they had the right house at least -- though nothing

justifies this tragedy in my mind. No-knock warrants are an abomination as is the "war on drugs".

:(

[madmusic]

26. Exactly, what major "public safety" concern prevented issuing a warrant?

It's like car chases that put so many at risk. They could have just issued a warrant for this guy and busted him the next time they saw him, and then get a warrant to search the house. If he's in jail, he can't flush the stuff.

Better yet, change the war on drugs to a public health concern and send in the nurses.

[catnhatnh]

13. Was it "in that house"....

...or "at that house"???World of difference there.

[conscious evolution]

19. but did they buy them

inside the house or outside of the house.Most street dealers will not deal in front of the their own homes.

[Azathoth]

10. Either way, the cops are lying

If it wasn't a no-knock warrant, then they're lying when they say it was. If it was a no-knock warrant, then they're lying when they said they knocked and identified themselves before kicking the door in (I'm sure they probably shouted "Police!" as they stormed the place, but since they were in plain clothes that doesn't make much difference). If the cops are willing to fudge that detail, then God knows what they're not telling us about why they picked that particular house.

[Psephos]

34. You were right to wait for more info, and right again to disown them when you got it

That's the way it's supposed to work. :thumbsup:

I smell rodent. Big time.

Peace.

[Gregorian]

11. I'll tell you why the judges are robotically acting.

Because there are so many warrants being applied for.

Between the increase in the number of people, and the increase in activity of cops due to the "drug war". It's really that simple. We used to have small communities, and police were watched by virtue of their visibility. Not any more. Now it's millions of people and thousands of cops. As a result, there is too much to do. Both for judges and cops. And it's dehumanized the process.

Welcome to my world.

[slaveplanet]

16. Abolition of home rule

is another big part of the equation. Everywhere police and Fireman are arguing that they need to be able to live outside of of the communities they police, and that they need to be exempt from "home rule" of the communities that deem they need to live within city limits to work there.

In the old days, officer Johnny Law's child would have to attend school with all the children of citizens that Johnny law would shakedown, arrest or murder during the night. It's no wonder they want to ignore "Home Rule", It causes them liability when they'd much prefer to slink in the shadows and not show their badges.

[The Backlash Cometh]

12. What a disgrace.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. From the link - I have a question

Police contend they obtained a so-called no-knock search warrant for the Neal Street house after buying drugs Tuesday afternoon from a man inside the home.

The no-knock warrant is frequently used in suspected drug cases because police believe their suprise entry into a home prevents drug dealers from flushing away or destroying the evidence. In this case, the warrant did not name a person, referring only to a "John Doe, aka Sam," the standard reference when a person's name is not known, police said.

The Atlanta Journal-Constution has been unable to independently confirm the police account about the need for the no-knock warrant because it has not been able to read the sworn statement police provided to a judge to obtain the warrant.

State Court Administrator Stefani Searcy has refused to release the information, although state law considers all such documents public record. Searcy has cited "office policy" as her reason for withholding the information.

How many drugs would a suspected drug dealer need to have in order to flush them all when the cops knock on the door? Wouldn't it take quite a long while to flush a quantity of drugs? Surely the cops wouldn't be beating down doors for small flushable quantities, now would they? :)

[conscious evolution]

21. If the cops are worried about

suspects flushing drugs they should just shut off the water before hand.That would take care of that problem.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. Brilliant idea!

[tammywammy]

23. Not really

In most toilets, there's a tank. The tank would have water in it, allowing for one last flush. Unless they turned off the water hours before hand to make sure that someone would have flushed the toilet. And then there's always having extra water on hand. If I was a drug dealer and I heard about them turning off the water before a raid, I may keep an extra gallon of water on hand, just to flush the toilet.

[conscious evolution]

25. you are probable right

But not all dealers might think that far ahead.It is worth trying out.

On edit:I just remembered seeing an old movie many years ago where the cops not only did that they put a trap on the sewage line to catch any thing flushed.I can't remember the name of the movie though.French Connection maybe?

[StraightDope]

27. That's done rather frequently...

A sweage trap takes care of the problem of evidence being flushed. No-knock warrants are designed to intimidate, nothing more. They have no legitimate purpose.

[greiner3]

28. Sorry, but it will take too long to explain;

However, the item I find funny about all this is that the freakers have not had one tiny little article on this. I would have thought that they would have jumped all over this as a case in point of every-person having a gun and using it to protect themselves against any and all invaders. :sarcasm:

[madmusic]

29. The NRA is extremely pro-police...

And anti-crime. They've painted themselves into a corner here because the police are a driving force in banning some guns, or at least in more regulation.

The freeper silence is a symptom of this. Why can they say?

[RamboLiberal]

32. Oh if this was the ATF raiding guy who dealt firearms from home

or some "Jesus" freak in Texas holed up in his compound they'd be all over it. Remember the Repuke congressional investigations and freepers obsession with Waco?

Gee, the Branch Davidian initial raid occurred during broad daylight - couldn't Koresh and his followers clearly see ATF on the vests of the raiders? Why did they shoot back?

[madmusic]

33. Forgot about that...

But that was only because "liberals" were in power. Another moral panic propaganda maneuver. If BushCo did the same thing, he could do no wrong.

Yet, there is some irony here that I can't figure out.