I WISH ALL OF US LOVED DEMOCRACY LIKE THESE FOLKS!

[Wiley50]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2799029

OR IF YOU CAN UNDERSTAND SPOKEN SPANISH:

It's Happening right here Live and in full Color

http://radio.indymedia.org:8000/appo.mp3.m3u

It's like a 911 call for freedom

[Jcrowley]

1. K&R n/t

[pinto]

2. Do you really think democracy comes at the hand of anarchy?

[bahrbearian]

3. Yeah if he was legit , he would be holding an AK 47

[Wiley50]

5. Locked, Loaded and waiting my turn

[Wiley50]

4. It did in 1776 n/t

[bahrbearian]

6. Exactly .. and we didn't call them insurgents.

[Kelly Rupert]

7. That was not anarchy at all,

but rather a forcible redefinition of the power structure of the state.

[Wiley50]

8. Exactly what is now happening in Oaxaca

Great Definition!

[pinto]

10. Perhaps. I don't discount that. But I don't call it democracy.

[EFerrari]

21. What is it called when the people refused to accept a stolen election?

:)

[rman]

25. Does anyone need evidence that the election was stolen?

--
GREG PALAST: On a computer printout, Dr. Romero showed how the official tallies matched the exit polls, with challenger Lopez Obrador ahead by 2% all night. That is, until the very end, when several precincts came in for the ruling party by 10-to-1, and then 100-to-1, putting their candidate Felipe Calderon over the top, literally in the last minutes. The doctor found that statistically improbable.

VICTOR ROMERO: We reached the point I said, “It’s over.” But then, from 71% ‘til the very end, there was not a single moment in which the difference from one report to the next became bigger.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/12/146201

[spoony]

31. If you spoke to the innocent Loyalists who had to flee

the country and had their land and homes stolen from them, I think they'd offer a slightly different take.

[tabasco]

32. So you feel sorry for the people who supported a monarch in America?

It takes all kinds to make DU, doesn't it?

I'm sure the nobility who had massive land grants from the King of England were truly disappointed.

[spoony]

33. Yes, I do.

And yes, it does. If it didn't, it'd just be you.

[pinto]

9. Our revolution was far from anarchistic. And our democracy was formed years after

we won our independence.

[Wiley50]

11. The History books may make it appear more organized than it really was

My experience with such things is:

One person starts bitchin about how such and such ought to be done.

Another says"Great Idea! You take care of that part"

That happens over and over as the thing snowballs

Everyone just grabs on where they see a hand hold

and it becomes greater than the sum of it's parts.

Later, in retrospect, some historian picks those who in their opinion
were the brightest stars and writes it down that way, the way they see it

But, it really didn't happen that way

It was just divinely inspired anarchy

[Jcrowley]

12. What is anarchy?

I think what you're referring to is chaotic state run violence. Those who are standing up for their rights in Oaxaca and elswhere are merely responding to the repressive conditions of state governance.

Here is a start in understanding what is anarchism which will allow one to go beyond the caricatures presented by the media.


From Emma Goldman:
Anarchism urges man to think, to investigate, to analyze every proposition; but that the brain capacity of the average reader be not taxed too much, I also shall begin with a definition, and then elaborate on the latter.

ANARCHISM:--The philosophy of a new social order based on liberty unrestricted by man-made law; the theory that all forms of government rest on violence, and are therefore wrong and harmful, as well as unnecessary.

The new social order rests, of course, on the materialistic basis of life; but while all Anarchists agree that the main evil today is an economic one, they maintain that the solution of that evil can be brought about only through the consideration of every phase of life,--individual, as well as the collective; the internal, as well as the external phases.

<snip>

Anarchism cannot but repudiate such a method of production: its goal is the freest possible expression of all the latent powers of the individual. Oscar Wilde defines a perfect personality as "one who develops under perfect conditions, who is not wounded, maimed, or in danger." A perfect personality, then, is only possible in a state of society where man is free to choose the mode of work, the conditions of work, and the freedom to work. One to whom the making of a table, the building of a house, or the tilling of the soil, is what the painting is to the artist and the discovery to the scientist,--the result of inspiration, of intense longing, and deep interest in work as a creative force. That being the ideal of Anarchism, its economic arrangements must consist of voluntary productive and distributive associations, gradually developing into free communism, as the best means of producing with the least waste of human energy. Anarchism, however, also recognizes the right of the individual, or numbers of individuals, to arrange at all times for other forms of work, in harmony with their tastes and desires.

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/goldman/aando/anarchism.html

And here are some more readings:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/index.html

You'll find some brilliant and well conceived tracts held within.

[pinto]

13. "liberty unrestricted by man-made law" may be anarchy, but it's not democracy.

[Wiley50]

14. But, Didn't You Just say:

"And our democracy was formed years afterwe won our independence."

[pinto]

15. Yeah. It was formed on the rule of law, the Constitution.

[Wiley50]

16. APPO just had a constitutional Convention last week

I can look it up and post it when I get a chance

Now they have to win their independence
so they can put it into action

[pinto]

17. I found this (from Melbourne Indymedia):

2006
November 10

Amidst an ongoing dirty war that has disappeared approximately fifty students and APPO leaders since the PFP invasion, three thousand gather to begin creating a new constitution for Oaxaca. The first step is the creation of a more permanent governing structure with executive and legislative powers. The provisional directorship of the APPO is dissolved and 260 representatives from throughout the state form the State Council of the Popular Assembly of the Peoples of Oaxaca (CEAPPO). A nationwide National Assembly, modeled after the APPO, is scheduled to take place in Mexico City on November 18-19. At least twelve states are expected to send delegates to the Popular Assemble of the Peoples of Mexico (APPM)

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2006/11/131564.php

[Wiley50]

18. I love to watch people prove the truth to themselves n/t

[pinto]

19. And the truth remains that democracy is a civil, political function.

"The first step is the creation of a more permanent governing structure with executive and legislative powers. The provisional directorship of the APPO is dissolved and 260 representatives from throughout the state form the State Council of the Popular Assembly of the Peoples of Oaxaca (CEAPPO). A nationwide National Assembly, modeled after the APPO, is scheduled to take place in Mexico City on November 18-19. At least twelve states are expected to send delegates to the Popular Assemble of the Peoples of Mexico (APPM)"

Sure sounds like a move for representative democracy to me. And it may take time to achieve, if it's doable.

I'm not trying to "win" a discussion, believe me. We agree more than not.

I appreciate your point of view, yet felt the focus on armed conflict you portrayed as democracy, in and of itself, was somewhat short-sighted.

And, more importantly, I believe the Oaxacans have a right to political self determination.

We disagree on the means to make that a reality.

Thanks again.

[rman]

23. How is it that the OP portrayed armed conflict as democracy?

How did you get the idea that was the message of the OP, and how did you get the idea that it is focussed on the violence?

I hope you realize the vast majority of the violence is being committed by the state (as usual).

[Wiley50]

28. Unfortunately, as usual, the media isn't doing their jobs

or there would be much more info on what's
going on down there

[rman]

24. A concept perverted by the powers that be, the big money interests,

as to create the impression that anarchy is opposed to any kind of governance, and that it is violent.

I think the best short description of anarchy is that it is radical democracy; radical in that there is a minimum of concentration of power.

[Jcrowley]

38. Yes

and it is often used reflexively with little consideration as to how one is perpetuating the language of the oppressor.

:toast:

[rman]

22. APPO reaches decisions by consensus

How is that anarchy?

[EFerrari]

20. Kick

[pacalo]

26. I'm in awe of their courageous stand against corrupt, fixed elections.

[Greyhound]

27. K & R

Keep this up front, maybe we will remember what this nation is supposed to be about.:kick::patriot:

[glitch]

29. K & R What a great quote:

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" - Benjamin Franklin 1759

[Wiley50]

30. Live Text Translation Up and Running now

http://iteration.org/radioappo

00:27 < Coyote^> <Coyote^> 17:33 the PFP continue firing tear gas directly at the people to cause injuries
00:27 < Coyote^> <Coyote^> 17:33 people are asked to bring water, vinegar and coca-cola attenuate the effects of tear gas
00:27 < Coyote^> <Coyote^> 17:46 PFP continues firing gases and cannisters at people
00:28 < Coyote^> 17:56 PFP is advancing slowly on the parallel streets to Aldama, the resistance follows very hard
00:29 < Coyote^> long sentence after that i can't follow about gas drifting into barrios
00:29 * luna 7th megamarch minute by minute 25th nobember 2006 oaxaca ciudad rebelde
00:32 < Coyote^> 18:08 reports from eastern districts of the city people are experiencing burning eyes and throats, indicating that PFP gas is drifting, causing potential respiratory problems for children the elderly and ill
00:34 < Coyote^> 18:05 strong confrontations continue in the city center, PFP attacks are strong but the people resist
00:37 < Coyote^> 8:07 people are called to build barricades, to support the University City environs where the PFP is advancing
00:40 < Coyote^> 8:04 confrontations continue in several streets around the zocalo, people report so much gas it is impossible to see or breath
00:41 < Coyote^> 18:13 PFP surrounding Santo Domingo, compa injured in arm by projectile
00:45 < Coyote^> 18:53night has come, ask for foods. There are several injured, the complete list shortly. Report by Radio University of Oaxaca to the air.
00:46 < Coyote^> 18:54 mobilizations of PFP in el cerro del fortín
00:49 < Coyote^> Oaxaca Libre: 18:52 PFP advances to cinema club El Pochote, the members of APPO fall back. people in taxis are firing gas at the protestors as they retreat
00:50 < Coyote^> 18:59 "we saw approximately 30 compassurrounded by pfp and gassed" reports from Oaxaca via msn
01:01 < Coyote^> 19:08 rumors are circulating that the preventive federal police will try to enter radio oaxaca university
01:02 < Coyote^> 19:09 many prisoners reported. The count forthcoming, demanding the presentation alife and in good health
01:04 < Coyote^> 19:14 Radio Universidad de Oaxaca: confrontation reported in calle Miguel Cabrera near the market 20 de noviembre
01:14 < Coyote^> 19:21 the tear gases that are being fired in the historical center of the city of Oaxaca at this moment are are drifting to all the city of Oaxaca.
01:16 < Coyote^> 19:21 reports that people are advancing to 5 señores.
01:17 < Coyote^> video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWFPoEikqI
01:17 < Coyote^> fotos: http://www.oaxacalibre.org/oax06/main.php?g2_itemId=840
01:19 < Coyote^> 19:29 Report from Santo Domingo: attack of the PFP continues, throwing and shooting tear chemical projectiles.
01:20 < leo> the PFP took over santo domingo
01:20 < leo> the radio is calling for the "colonies" to take to the streets
01:27 < Coyote^> 19:31 PFP has surrounded people and are advancing from the different intersections
01:32 < Coyote^> 19:39 four trucks at the barricade of 5 señores, leading pfp and ministerial police
01:34 < Coyote^> 19:40 PFP rounding up people in the zocalo, firing weapons and making arrests
01:35 < Coyote^> 19:41 Report by radio university of Oaxaca on the air: there are wounded by tear gas grenades and shootings
01:35 < zapATIsta> this may be old news but I think a bus was rammed into a police line.
01:36 < Coyote^> 19:46 radio university from oaxaca calls the people to the streets because the demonstrators are surrounded in the center of Oaxaca and the PFP is shooting firearms.
01:38 < Coyote^> 19:47 señor Taurino Ojeda, 45 years of age, also has been injured by a bullet in the left leg
01:38 * luna ppl please can you have conversations on the indymedia channel? this one is meant for coyote translating the minute by minute events! thnka!!
01:40 < Coyote^> 19:48 Report by radio university of oaxaca on the air: security commision of APPO reports that the comrades in South part of Santo Domingo regroup and harass the pfp in the North part
01:52 < Coyote^> 19:52 radio requests food, drinks and vinegar be brought to the sites where people are being attacked. Also support for all positions is requested
01:54 < Coyote^> 19:55 calls to reinforce the confrontation, to rescue the streets. To take vinegar. red taxis throwing gas at protestors
01:56 < Coyote^> 19:52 medical aid requested at all points
01:59 < Coyote^> 20:08 PFP returned to corner of Alcala and Abasolo, four shots fired
02:04 < Coyote^> 0:23 Radio University of Oaxaca: at this moment a large number of trucks of PFP and ministrial police on Avenida del Ferrocarril
02:08 < Coyote^> 20:17 confrontations continue, PFP using gasses, ministerial police shooting (phone report from Oaxaca)
02:09 < Coyote^> 19:51 barricade gone up near social security building in Oaxaca
02:11 < Coyote^> 20:20 man with gun shot to leg reported stable, but many other seriously injured, burning cars exploding
02:15 < Coyote^> 20:20 many arrests reported
02:18 < Coyote^> 20:27 8 compañeros taken in PFP continue shooting directly at people, many wounded
02:20 < Coyote^> 20:31 radio asks people to open their doors to people being attacked by cops
02:23 < Coyote^> 20:32 PFP advances on bus station with light tanks. radio calls for people to not disperse
02:24 < Coyote^> 20:35 the churches of the oaxaca center are closed
02:26 < Coyote^> 20:36 people of the world called to Mexican Embassies and Consulates to stop the slaugter
02:28 < Coyote^> 20:37 reports that the Ministry of Foreign Relations burning in Oaxaca
02:29 < Coyote^> 20:39 Radio Universidad calls for people to puncture tires of patrols
02:37 < Coyote^> 20:46 house searches by PFP reported
02:39 < Coyote^> 20:48 police in plain clothes in "el biche pobre" restaurant
02:43 < Coyote^> 20:54 attacks on the compañeros near the social security building
02:44 < Coyote^> 20:54 In avenue chapultepec (Oaxaca) are burned cars and trucks
02:45 < Coyote^> 20:56 arrests at social security building
02:46 < Coyote^> 20:57 On avenue chapultepec many arrests and beatings (telephone report)
02:47 < Coyote^> 20:58 police in plain clothes attack bus station, tourists and others running for safety
02:53 < Coyote^> 21:03 in the social security hospital, police in white gowns detaining injured
02:56 < Coyote^> 21:05 APPO asks the people to retire
03:00 < gus> from streets?
03:00 < Coyote^> 21:08 Department of Interior warns APPO that any violent resistance will be met with the Army, warning send via Catholic Church
03:01 < Coyote^> 21:10 Radio University calls to fall back to the University
03:09 < Coyote^> 21:18 five PFP trucks leave Channel 9, probably patrolling to kidnap people in the area
03:11 < Coyote^> 21:21 Priistas reorganizándose en la fuente de las siete regiones
03:11 < Coyote^> <medianoche> 21:21 En la colonia _______ vienen levantando de manera indiscriminada a todos los ciudadanos
03:11 < Coyote^> eeks
03:12 < MillaRussi> english x_x
03:12 < Coyote^> 21:21 PRI members reorganizing in foutain of las siete regiones
03:15 < Coyote^> 21:24 people in Neza city call demonstration of protest for tommorow
03:15 < Coyote^> Peoples of the world called to action tommorow
03:16 < MillaRussi> what?
03:20 < pseudo_> Im going to translate....
03:21 < pseudo_> isnt this a war act mr abascal????
03:21 < pseudo_> where is the priest of oaxaca, he must be happy now
03:22 < pseudo_> please stay united
03:22 < pseudo_> avoid isolated groups
03:22 < MillaRussi> is this the translation?!
03:22 < pseudo_> and knock on peoples doors
03:23 < pseudo_> to search for protection
03:23 < pseudo_> (yes this is the translation milla)
03:23 < MillaRussi> tnx
03:23 < pseudo_> to our comrades downtown... retrieve, go to the churches, to homes
03:24 < pseudo_> we have been informed that the army is on its way
03:24 < pseudo_> 6 trucks from the pfp are going to 5 señores
03:24 < pseudo_> if you cant stand the barricade, retrieve to radio universidad
03:24 < pseudo_> A call....
03:25 < pseudo_> radio universidad is the safest place to be now... eventohgh the army may enter our university
03:26 < pseudo_> you may not be able to reach radio universidad, please try to hide inside the houses and churches
03:26 < pseudo_> the army is comming
03:26 < pseudo_> please find a place to hide
03:26 < pseudo_> we dont want any more tourtured, killed, arrested comrades
03:26 < pseudo_> we have not been defeated, its a tactical retrieve
03:27 < pseudo_> please hide our comrades on your homes, show solidarity
03:27 < pseudo_> if they find our comrades outside on the streets they are going to have a very bad time
03:27 < pseudo_> (a poem)
03:28 < pseudo_> (music)
03:33 < pseudo_> we ask people to call secretaria de governacion 015550933400
03:33 < pseudo_> to inform them about the violations agains the people of oaxaca
03:34 < pseudo_> please ve carefull because pfp is entering private homes
03:34 < pseudo_> we ask red cross to help in the zocalo area
03:35 < pseudo_> we have information that there are PFPs dressed as doctors on the hospital
03:36 < pseudo_> people all over oaxaca, if you have a missing family member, please inform it to radio universidad
03:36 < pseudo_> people is beeing beated in the zocalo
03:36 < pseudo_> my head has now a price...
03:36 < pseudo_> they have ofered money for my head, how cowards
03:37 < pseudo_> (Sorry about the cut translation, im experiencing problems with my stream)
03:38 < pseudo_> (music)
03:38 < Coyote^> 21:36 people who came from District Federal asked to come to University City
03:43 < pseudo_> salomon diaz, call your sisters house
03:43 < pseudo_> pedro ignacio cervantes, call home
03:44 < pseudo_> we have been informed, that one of the arrested comrades is mario aquino silva
03:45 < pseudo_> 9330 police patrol has arrested and beated comrades
03:45 < pseudo_> a group of comrades has been rounded near downtown
03:45 < pseudo_> they wont let them out
03:45 < pseudo_> near pochote
03:46 < pseudo_> julio morales call home
03:47 < pseudo_> felipe calderon well done...
03:47 < pseudo_> you are not still president and you have already showed your rage against us
03:47 < luna> pseudo
03:47 < pseudo_> thats your peace, the peace you always talk about
03:48 < pseudo_> we are not talking the same lenguage....
03:48 < pseudo_> this is not peace
03:48 < pseudo_> thats the way it is
03:48 < pseudo_> people from oaxaca please inform us if you have missing persons
03:49 < pseudo_> people from APPO consejo, please stay in contact with radio universidad
03:50 < pseudo_> im amazed about the braveness of our people from oaxaca
03:51 < pseudo_> Congratulations to PFP for they braveness that they showed when attaqued our women, our children
03:51 < pseudo_> attacking our unarmed people
03:51 < luna> pseudo_look at the private message
03:52 < pseudo_> I wish you were as brave as you where today to go against armed people
03:52 < pseudo_> to go against narcos
03:52 < pseudo_> you should be fighting crime
03:52 < pseudo_> but you do nothing....
03:53 < pseudo_> somehow, rebels like us are much more dangerous than organized crime
04:09 < MillaRussi> ?!
04:12 < Coyote^> just music at the moment, milla
04:12 < Coyote^> Topic is 'no talking in here, ONLY radio transcripts
04:12 < MillaRussi> tnx ;)
04:22 < Coyote^> 22:09 shooting that lasted two minutes by the medicine faculty, firing came from light trucks. Shouts were heard in the colony
04:24 < Coyote^> 22:38 Radio University of Oaxaca reports 8 full trucks of the military who left 28th military zone on course to the socle of the city of oaxaca
04:26 < Coyote^> 22:36 In the fountain of seven regions the ministerial police regroups, in bunker, cascade, attacking people they see in the street and shots in the reform (source: via msn from oax
04:29 < Coyote^> 22:40 another gunshot injury reported by radio universidad
04:34 < Coyote^> 22:41 report of the commission of press of the APPO according to the resolve of the council of APPO to make the SEventh Megamarch a peaceful wall, we now ask all organizations of human rights to put there eyes in Oaxaca
04:36 < Coyote^> 22:43 "we make a call to the organisms, to the national and international organizations, to make mobilizations in the consulates of Mexico in the world, to condemn this action of the federal government in support of the government of Ulises Ruiz Ortiz"
04:36 < leo> 3 deaths reported at the school of medicine
04:38 < Coyote^> 22:44 We consider it very important to have a concentration in the university city and see there that next activities we can undertake in the coming days: construction of barricades, to show with the dignity of the town oaxaqueño that we are not going to allow to more aggressions against the oaxaqueño people
04:41 < Coyote^> 22:51 sixty comrades being held in zocalo being lead towards Tlacolula
04:44 < Coyote^> 22:53 PFP makign arrests in homes
04:49 < Coyote^> 22:54 Humberto de la Peña independent lawyer of the D.F., denounces on radio university of Oaxaca the halting of three young people who are being tortured
04:50 < Coyote^> 22:58: eight armed police enter hospital after shootings in front of the medical facility, forced out by medical personel
04:52 < Coyote^> 23:01 trucks with heavily armed civilians patrol the entire city
04:55 < Coyote^> 23:03, reports that workers of the department of health arrested and taken away in city busses
04:57 < Coyote^> 23:08 many comrades missing
05:00 < Coyote^> 22:46 radio universidad confirms the death of three at the medical facility
05:07 < Coyote^> 23:16 Amapolas 1429 is where three people are being tortured who were taken yesterday
06:01 < Coyote^> 00:08 testimony of the medicine faculty: "We went to see, 3 boys went towards the medicine door on the sidewalk" 3 light trucks of police stopped "the people who went towards them began to run"
06:09 < Coyote^> we we put to the entrance of urgencies "the only thing that we reached to listen was an interval of 2 minutes of shots, of shots" there was a boy thrown in the door "nobody went see if the police remained there in the source of the seven regions" were reviewing the people who happened that way
06:12 < Coyote^> "the comrade was assassinated? -"he was unconcious and nobody wanted to go to see with the police there
06:26 < Coyote^> list of the disappeared:
06:26 < Coyote^> Humberto VAzquerz Hernandez
06:27 < Coyote^> Miguel y Manuel Cruz Cruz
06:27 < Coyote^> Justino Juárez Martínez
06:27 < Coyote^> David Melchor Cervantes de la facultad de derecho
06:28 < Coyote^> señor procoro pascual
06:28 < Coyote^> ignacio tablada galindo
06:29 < Coyote^> lost track
06:29 < Coyote^> Javier Sosa Martínez desaparecido, se le vió por última vez a las 8:30 en la colonia herrera
06:38 < User48> Hola
06:40 < Coyote^> 00:50 In the Ejido Guadalupe Victoria there is a large truck, the police seem to be taking people there to torture them
06:42 < Pablo> I;m listening to the AMLO's Radio
06:43 < Pablo> this chat room is English only?
06:45 < Coyote^> no talking in here, ONLY radio transcripts
06:45 < Coyote^> por favor
06:45 < Pablo> ok
06:47 < gus> ( Pablo that nick is already registered, change it, pls)
06:49 < Coyote^> lawyers statement on the air: people of the world, please help us. in oaxaca we are alone: there are no human rights, no civil rights, without courts, without justice,
09:06 * luna is away: ido
14:27 * luna is back (gone 05:20:47)
14:59 < Coyote^> radio is back on

[Wiley50]

34. Intersting Logfile of Last Night on OSAG

Logfiles yesterday's events when they happened; Re: Radio Universidad Streaming



See logfiles below, about how events were reported and developed last night:

Here is part of the Radio APPO/Universidad logfile on a Wiki of my site:
http://cxs2.info/w/index.php?title=Log_Radio_Appo
(Actually, someone started translating pretty late, but there was no official log of this channel, so I copied it to this page &edited)

Most action was on channel #mexico instead; spanish and english, radioappo transcripts; everything together, instead of #radioappo. Someone had everything logged and copied into this page I've made:
http://cxs2.info/w/index.php?title=Logfile_Mexico
(I'm going to edit it, but that takes some time; its a lot; look back some hours later)



I had to take cover 5 times in a small room in the back of my hotel. With the first massive PFP attack on the Santo Domingo, I then even had to put my jacket over my head to filter the gasses in that room. When I came back, the PFP was in the streets, but later returned. I saw APPO starting burning the main door of Camino Real before. A few minutes later when I quickly looked into the street, 4 teargas grenades were flying at the same second into my direction. However; far way; at that main door. I've heard the shooting far away in the North after 10; later that turned out to be the killing of 3 people at Facultad de Medicina. I don't kno where those war reporters stayed that were flew in, some even from Irak. But the offcial press didn't investigate these killings yet. Probably they're used to stay in their hotels when things get tough.

(just a short report; not in the mood to write a longer one right now; later...)

[Wiley50]

35. GOV. ULISES RUIZ ORTEGA MAKES APPEARANCE IN OAXACA

Ulises was here half an hour ago.

He spoke to the workers that started cleaning up the Santo Domingo church area from 7AM on.

Several army helicopters were i the air; one was ebcircling the meeting and Zocalo.

Another went to Radio Universidad area.

Then he left quickly.

Cowardly? No, he was a very brave man to come here after all that time! And he had called some friendly PRI governments police in this morning, who were heavily armed patroling almost at every street corner. He was a very brave man to come her, after PFP, paramilitaries, PRI-gangs, PRI-police, army choppers, etc. As a captain, he was thelast man that left the ship..., or something..?

Other news: The murders seem to be sure; near Facultad de Medicina.

But strange enough all those real war reporters who came here the last days (some even from Baghdad), didn't do their work. Then there are eye witnesses, they are scared. I might get some report. Some even saw a body (fatally shot) dropping against the door/window of the building he/she was in (Radio APPO).



APPO reports 6 murders in total (at some point even a source told 9 killed):

http://actualidad.terra.es/nacional/articulo/appo_denuncia_muerte_manifestantes_ultimos_1236174.htm



Here some articles

http://www.ansa.it/ansalatina/notizie/notiziari/mexico/20061126173734123207.html



HERE THE LAST DETAINED & MISSING LIST:

http://vientos.info/wiki/index.php?Lista%20detenidos%20y%20desaparecidos%2025%20de%20nov



Lista detenidos y desaparecidos 25 de nov

DETENIDOS

Vani Trinidad Coca Gómez (menor de edad) Hilda Coca Gómez Roque Coca Gómez Helia Coca Gómez Tobe Hilbert Omar Cristian Marcel (UNAM) Ofelia Cesar Mateos Jorge Sosa (hermano Flavio Sosa)

DESAPARECIDOS___

Uriel Julio Méndez Hernández Humberto Vazquez Hernández Ignacio Tablada Galindo Probio Pascual Miguel Cruz Cruz Manuel Cruz Cruz Isai Cruz Martinez Julián Alejandro Ortega Ponces Eber Cruz Pérez David Melchor Cervantes (Estudiante de Derecho UABJO) Justino Juárez Martinez Marcos Herrera Jesus Herrera Eduardo Herrera Javier Sosa Martínez Cesar Herrera Ofelia Esperanza Robles Cruz (detenida-desaparecida) María del Socorro Cruz Alarcón (detenida-desaparecida) Luis Manuel Pacheco Vázquez (estudiante Facultad de Medicina UABJO) Edith Coca Soriano (detenida-desaparecida) Guadalupe Crea Hernández Rosario Alicia Villanueva Florentino Gomez Juan Andres Pacheco Vazquez Donato Vazquez Ortiz (menor 16 años) 8 compañeros de la Coalición de Maestros y Promotores indígenas de Oaxaca (CEMPIO) adherentes de la otra campaña Dionisio Gonzalez (profe, pintor) AureliaSantiago? Reyes Victoria Santiago Reyes Gonzalo Santiago Gerardo (Soriana) Sarah Ivette (francesa) Carlos el guero (df) Paco (guadalajara) Janitzio y sus papas Miguel (vieron cuando lo apañaron) Heberto (Chimalapas)

[Wiley50]

36. VERY INTERESTING ANALYSIS by member of OSAG

My own two cents: Analysis of yesterdays events, and after reading
today's La Jornada,,,

I'd like to focus attention of the pattern of attacks, the configuration
of people, the behavior of the feds, and other events of yesterdays
battles, and congeal them into a coherent analysis. First some
corrections....

Instead of the Oaxacan legislative buildings and External Relations
buildings being burned as I reported, those buildings or offices that
were on fire were: the Poder Judicial Federal (federal judicial power,
ie federal courts), Tribunal Superior de Justicia del Estado (Superior
Court of the State), El Teatro Juarez (the Juarez theatre, and used to
be the seat of the State Congress), La Secretaria de Turismo de la
Entidad (the Ministry of state tourism), and different commercial
establishments...

Those buildings damaged were: the Relaciones Exteriores (various federal
offices of the foreign relations ministry), the Registro Publico de la
Propiedad (public Registrar of Property), Facultad de Sociologia de
UABJO (Sociology Faculty building), La Asociacion Mexicana de Hoteles y
Moteles (State chapter of the Mex Association of Hotels and Motels).

Plus El Hotel Camino Real, and two big houses suffered minor damage from
molotov cocktails.

And yesterdays reports that there were 8 trucks leaving the 28th Zone
Military Base for the zocalo, never was confirmed and obviously never
arrived at their supposed destination (unless they are there right now,
and I have yet to hear it). However, today La Jornada reports that at
11pm last night there were attacks at the 28th Zone Military base by
unknown assailants. And last night there was an indirect warning from
the Interior Ministry, thru Church officials, to RU or APPO reps (no
sure which) that was duly reported by RU. However, according to todays
news, no direct message was transmitted to APPO negotiators by the
Interiror Ministry, and unlike the last big confrontation (Nov 1 or 2)
where Fox and Abascal convened an emergency cabinet level meeting in DF,
this time they continued to attend a frivolous Guanajuato goodbye
luncheon (with no urgency of leaving for DF, and convening cabinet).

Also there were eye witness reports that before the battles started
there were strange civilian characters congregating in distinct groups,
distinct from other demonstrators, in and around the zocalo, and
distinct from the young people (anarcho punkers, for lack of a better
word), and others who were a part of the mega march. And it was reported
today that during the back and forth battles between APPO and the PFP,
in and around Santo Domingo church, some of these civilians were chasing
and shooting at people running away from Santo Domingo, away from the
PFP.

Meanwhile, the ordinary federal forces, the PFP, the state ministerial
police, and their commanders, IMO seemed to have been unawares of all
the actors involved and played their predictable roles. And after the
military base was attacked, is when there were reports/rumours spread of
them leaving their bases...

Of course, today's headline of the Milenio newspaper suggested, well,
explicitly accused the APPO for everything that transpired yesterday,
and no doubt the official intl newswires will parrot this
interpretation.

However, I think what La Jornada journalists are suggesting, without
actually saying it, and what others suspected yesterday, is that an
unseen hand was at work. That unseen hand was the premeditated
preparations of the state and/or fed priistas in anticipation of the
megamarch. I'll even go so far as to say that the federal govt was
either involved or were informed of these plans. The reason La Jornada
doesnt explicitly accuse priistas, is because as they present the
infromation, above portrayed, is that it is an obvious conclusion (at
least in mexico) by the way priistas have behaved in the past.

So if we look at the targets, buildings and institutions, that were
attacked, we see a tendency to the federal targets, rather than state.
Why would that be suspicious? Because the state priistas know that
provoking the feds, gets their attention, and the more probability of a
strong reaction. Of course the priistas want the reaction to be against
the APPO, and not themselves. The other interesting target is the Motela
nd hotel association, and certain commercial establishments. It is
fairly well known that business people are vulnerable because of their
substantial investments, and it is fairly well known that the local
priista establishment know which businesses need further convincing of
either their support, or their quiet acquiesance. The blatant attack on
the military base is an obvious provocation, to create more repression
againt the APPO, as APPO would be their obvious target, if and when they
entered the fray on the streets...

The local PRI establishemnts are conniving SOBs whether they feel
threatened or when it is business as usual, and like I have said, they
have alot of statewide resources and organizational capacity, and should
not be underestimated at the extent of their complicity and autonomous
initiative (as in, for their own interests and independent of the
federal arm of the party, and beyond federal govt control). That doesnt
mean the feds dont know this, but themselves manipulate these local
establishments for their own ends...

Yesterdays events were a classic revelation of Mexican social reality...

[Wiley50]

37. These companies do business in Oaxaca

These companies do business in Oaxaca


Rio Tinto PLC
6 St James's Square
London SW1Y 4LD
United Kingdom
Tel. [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Rio Tinto Ltd.
33rd Floor
55 Collins Street
Melbourne, VIC, 3001
Australia
Tel. [phone], Fax: [phone]

Subsidiaries:

Rio Tinto's subsidiary Kennecott was fined for illegally mining
uranium in the Loxicha region in southern Mexico's Oaxaca state. Its
license was canceled (in 2001). Under Mexican law, uranium extraction
and processing is the sole prerogative of the state. Kennecott
carried out surface exploration and drilling on three concessions in
Oaxaca, named Elvira I, II and III until October 1999. (unomásuno,
Dec 18, 2001) Source.

Kennecott Exploration was the subsidiary responsible and continues to
have links with the state government of Oaxaca and Ulises Ruiz Ortiz.

For a brief detail, in Spanish, of Kennecott's past record in Oaxaca,
Mexico: ¡Urgente! Confirman exploración de uranio en Loxicha.

Main corporate office:
Kennecott Exploration
224 N 2200 W
Salt Lake City, UT 84116
Tel. [phone]
Fax [phone]

USA / Mexico office: (outside of Tucson, AZ)
Kennecott Exploration
10861 N Mavinee Dr # 141
Oro Valley, AZ 85737
Tel. [phone]

----------------------------------------------------------
Continuum Resources Ltd., a Canadian mining corporation, which "holds
in excess of 70,000 hectares of exploration ground in the state of
Oaxaca, Mexico. Included in the property portfolio are two of the
most significant past-producers of gold and silver in southern
Mexico: the San Jose epithermal silver-gold deposit and the Natividad
epithermal gold-silver deposit." Source: Continuum corporate site.

Management:
* Greig Hutton, P.Eng President, Director
* Lawrence A. Dick PH.D., P.GEO., Vice President Exploration, Director
* Raul Diaz Unzueta Director General, Mexico
* Robert G. McMorran Chief Financial Officer, Director
* Warren McIntyre Corporate Secretary, Director

Corporate address:
1200 - 1188 West Georgia Street
Vancouver, B.C. V6E 4A2
t. 604.629.0000
f. 604.669.2960
info@...

Continuum is also linked through its San Jose-Taviche mine to Foruna
Silver Mines Inc., another BC, Canada based company:

Fortuna Silver Mines Inc.

Corporate Address:
355 Burrard Street, Suite 840
Vancouver, British Columbia
Canada V6C 2G8

Telephone:
604 484-4085 ext. 232

Fax:
604 484-4029

Management:
Jorge A. Ganoza Durant, B.Sc. Eng.: President
Luis Ganoza Durant, B.Sc., MBA, M.Sc.: Chief Financial Officer
Jorge R. Ganoza Aicardi, B.Sc. Eng.: VP Operations
Thomas I. Vehrs, Ph.D.: VP Exploration
Simon Ridgway, Chairman: Director
Peter Thiersch, M.Sc., P.Geo.: Director
Mike Iverson: Director
Tomas Guerrero Méndez, Eng.: Director
Sally Whittall: Corporate Secretary

----------------------------------------------------------
----------

Other corporations involved in Oaxaca through Plan Puebla Panama
(source):

International Paper
Global Headquarters
6400 Poplar Avenue
Memphis, TN 38197
901-419-9000

Boise Cascade
1111 West Jefferson Street
P.O. Box 50
Boise, ID 83728
phone: [phone]

International Paper Company and Boise Cascade are currently
purchasing land in Chiapas and Oaxaca, Mexico for plantation forestry.

ENDESA (a Spanish corporate utilities group) is the principal
investor in the regional energy interconnection initiative to
privatize energy and develop hydroelectric dams.

ENDESA, S.A. Headquarters:

C/ Ribera del Loira, 60
(Campo de las Naciones)
28042 Madrid
Spain

Tel: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Harken Energy, Applied Energy Services Corporation(AESC), Duke
Energy, and Montgomery Watson Harza (MWH) are all U.S. energy
corporations that are investing from Mexico to Panama in the
development of hydroelectric dams and the privatization of the energy
grid.

Harken Energy is also known due to a scandal involving then corporate
officer George W. Bush in an incident of insider trading, just before
the company stock lost a significant amount of value. Headquartered
in Southlake, TX, Harken Energy continues to have close connections
with George W. Bush's White House.

Harken Energy Corporate Office:
180 State Street, Ste. 200
Southlake, TX 76092
Phone: [phone]

Applied Energy Services (AES) has a record of flagrantly violating
air pollution standards and fixing energy markets by withholding
supply and gouging prices. Class-action lawsuits have been filed
regarding price gouging and withholding supply in California.

AESC Corporate Office:
250 Chaddick Drive
Wheeling, IL 60090
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

Duke Energy, headquartered in Charlotte, NC, is fast becoming a mega-
utility by acquiring smaller utilities and power facilities. It is
closely linked to Plan Puebla Panama.

Duke Energy Corporate Office:
526 South Church St.
Charlotte, NC 28202-1904
[phone]

Other investors include Tribasa, Caros, GAN, ICA, Imbursa, Texas
Connection, International Shipholding Corporation, Monsanto, Shell,
Dow Chemical, Exxon, Shell, and Hutchinson Holdings.

[Wiley50]

39. .