10 is the new 15 as kids grow up faster ~ MSNBC

[mzmolly]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15905527/

Kids look and dress older. They struggle to process the images of sex, violence and adult humor, even when their parents try to shield them. And sometimes, he says, parents end up encouraging the behavior by failing to set limits — in essence, handing over power to their kids.

"You get this kind of perfect storm of variables that would suggest that, yes, kids are becoming teens at an earlier age," Plante says.

Natalie Wickstrom, a 10-year-old in suburban Atlanta, says girls her age sometimes wear clothes that are "a little inappropriate." She describes how one friend tied her shirt to show her stomach and "liked to dance, like in rap videos."

Girls in her class also talk about not only liking but "having relationships" with boys.

Yikes!

[Spinzonner]

1. Is 3 the new 5 yet ?

[mzmolly]

4. I think 3 is the new 10

and 10 is too young to date, as far as I'm concerned.

[Iris]

43. well, 3-5 for girls means "make-up parties"

so perhaps they are the new 12?

[gollygee]

45. And ear piercing

my 4-year-old daughter's friends are all getting their ears pierced. I'm on the fence about it - I can't promise I won't let her get hers pierced if she wants to at this age. My husband and I were talking about when "informed consent" can happen for ear piercing. LOL. But it isn't something that she would likely regret later on or anything.

My daughter is also always asking to wear perfume, but she calls it "potion". I'm not sure where she got the interest in perfume. I don't wear it - I'm more tomboyish. I hardly ever even wear makeup.

[Iris]

47. My parents made me wait on the ear-piercing.

My dad didn't want me to come back and say "Why'd you let me do this!"

But many pierce 'em straight out of the womb these days.

[GreenArrow]

2. consumerism run amok

.

[mzmolly]

6. Yep

agreed.

[The Straight Story]

8. Speaking of which:

My wife is in San Francisco tonight, she drove her brother home and took along my daughter and her niece (13). While her brother was at work she took the kids to the museum (13 yr old was bored) and then walking back to the apartment they stopped in some store.

Niece wanted my wife to help her buy a $100 sweatshirt she wanted. My wife said no. She was upset and says that her mom would buy it for her, and she could just say it was for her birthday and christmas and not have to buy anything for those.

Any clothing less than $75 she won't take, it's not hip.

For $100 I would go to thrift store and load up for a year.

I just don't get the allure of buying a sweatshirt because it has some logo on it...

[TheWraith]

3. Sky falling! Run in circles and panic!

Seriously, haven't people been saying this over and over since roughly the year 1740? "Oh, those kids nowadays..."

[mzmolly]

5. So you think ten is a good age to start dating?

:shrug:

On edit, the article does touch on the fact that we've been saying this for years, but I personally think kids need to take the time to be "kids."

[pooja]

9. I had friends who had their little boyfriends in kindergarten....

[mzmolly]

11. Unfortunately, that is not what the article is talking addressing.

I had friends who had numerous sexual encounters by the age of 12. Personally, I had a boyfriend when I was 5, but we didn't "get it on" or anything. ;)

[pooja]

41. Yes, but remember that little innocent attraction when you are children

isn't abnormal.... What is not is starting adulthood too soon.

[seabeyond]

42. i had a friend horrified that her son in kindegarten had kids with crushes

on each other. she was aghast. i laughed. i told her that is natural. i remember, my first kiss on the school bus coming home from kindergarten. the most innocent and not big deal. it bothered no adult. my mom was informed. my son in prek at 4 had a girl kiss him. he was soooooo mad. lol lol. but... all normal. i love the normal, sexual development that we humans walk in life. i embrace and am all for it. it is when the adult world is given to the children to sexually experience that perverts the natural path a child should be allowed to walk

[mzmolly]

50. I remember that attraction too. My 8 year old has had crushes for years

doesn't bother me a bit. However, if she wants to "date" in two years - the answer will be "not yet." ;)

[seabeyond]

14. this is a valid issue and having one working on 12 we are

right now walking it the best we can....

yes it is younger today than it was yesterday, there is no doubt. it doesnt have to be bad with strong family connections that allow parental guidance. it doesnt have to be a bad thing, unfortantely it is a bad thing in a lot of cases. not mine. i am not fearful. and the sky isnt falling. it doesnt mean we ignore what is happening with our kids. i think that is the most harmful choice.

[mzmolly]

19. Thoughtful post

as usual. :hi:

[rucky]

7. As a 5th Grade Teacher, I can vouch for this

you won't believe the stuff that comes out of their mouths when they think no adults are listening.

[mzmolly]

10. Scary

the stuff I was doing at 12 is frightening enough, I can't imagine younger and younger kids being essentially forced to forgo their childhoods.

[teach1st]

13. Another fifth grade teacher...

..and it's mostly true. One thing, though - if you can take the peer pressure off the kids, many are very relieved. They don't like it either.

[mzmolly]

16. Tips for taking the peer pressure off are appreciated.

Thanks. :hi:

PS ~ I agree that kids would rather be kids.

[seabeyond]

21. my kid bet me he wouldn't drink in high school. i bet him he would

(i am a realistic parent, pragmatic.) told him he would be punished if caught, but that is a reality. he said he wouldn't. i bet him a new car graduation if he didn't drink thru high school. (he is an honest kid, for real, dont laugh) i also told him that would help with the peer pressure from friends, just say, hey... i get a car if i dont. son and i talk a lot about the peer pressure to do things and behavior. he easily recognizes. when i tell him ways he can conform to be a part, he says no... then i tell him, he made the choice to be different, honor that in him. but i am always up for creative ideas myself.

[mzmolly]

26. Hmm, if only I could afford that option.

But, I think it's a great idea to offer incentive while using a little reverse psych. :hi:

[seabeyond]

31. do you know anyone... i mean anyone.... who did NOT drink

in high school? i was a good girl and was to the end of junior year before i drank my first time. did it a handful of times that period and then hardly at all thru senior year. i have never been big on drinking...

but

i figure it will allow him to spend a lot of time saying no before the time comes he says yes. i am not forseeing buying a vehicle for him. i talk to hubby about that and he agreed to it because, if he does make it thru highschool without alcohol, we guess he has earned it. but not seeing it happening.

another of his things was that i catch him in EVERYTHING. i really am good. i can look at the faces and know. lol. he says he will never be able to get away with anything. this was one of our first real honest talks, beyond me as a parent. about me as a teenager. a lot of people dont agree with this as a parenting tool either, but i do. being honest. at my own speed. what i see he needs. my errors. my lessons. my imperfection. he is a child that works awfuly hard on being good putting way too much pressure on self. i can see it back firing at an older age. doing self destruction.

it is all about knowing the child. what i do with this one i will NOT do with the youngest.

this one i encourage stepping out of the lines. i tell him i will NOT catch him at all things, and will be his choices and repercussions. and there will be times i know things and wont say anything because it is his journey as a teenager.

we really talk about so much. most, i want him to know that regardless of society saying teens dont like their parents,... that isnt true. teenagers want the independents only to come back to parent when they need them. and they do. and they are lucky to have parents that wil be there.

but i am not seeing i will be buying a car. do you?

[mzmolly]

35. I have known people who did not drink in high school.

And, I think your idea is a good one, it's ok to offer incentives for desirable behavior.

[kiahzero]

44. I didn't.

I know many others who didn't.

[seabeyond]

48. i went to high school in the 70's in calif. this always surprises me

lol lol. i dont know anyone who didnt. also with the inhale question. i really assume everyone has tried it. i dont know a single person that has not. i know a lot of people that tried it and didnt like it and never did it again, but not one that didnt try it. same with the virgin thing. lol lol. not having known a virgin when they got married, and being 32 when i got married, i am always surprised to find one now a days

thanks for sharing. it is good to know it is done by high school kids. going thru school without ever trying alcohol

[Hippo_Tron]

55. I recently graduated high school, not drinking is uncommon but not unheard of

Almost everyone had at least tried alcohol before they graduate. Out of a class of about 100 (I went to a small school) I'd say that there were maybe 5 at the most who hadn't tried it by the time we graduated. Granted that number probably grows to maybe 15 if you count the kids who tried it for their first time during all of the pre-graduation parties.

There's definitely peer pressure to drink but those who abstain didn't get ridiculed.

[Reverend_Smitty]

53. I didn't drink in HS, as well as many of my friends...

but I did drink ALOT in college. I still do hang out with my non-drinking friends from high school...not so much with my drinking friends from college

[Fierce]

54. I didn't drink or smoke in high school.

But man, did I make up for it in college, and after.

[seabeyond]

60. WELL people. i THOUGHT it was a pretty safe bet. maybe NOT

lol lol lol. thanks for sharing all and setting me straight

[teach1st]

24. As a teacher...

...I do this in class meetings. It's the main topic of most class meetings. We talk about the many ways in which peer pressure affects the kids, specific issues relating to this, and how (and why) to get around the pressure. It's hard to pinpoint any specific tip...it's basically keeping the open line of communication a consistent part of the school day.

[mzmolly]

25. Dialog is a good step

all we can do is "educate" and let kids make some decisions on their own I suppose? I am hopeful that my child will be more of a child than I was as a "tween." ;)

[seabeyond]

18. dealing with this in my 6th grader, i couldn't agree with you more

we had a blow up the other day he saying he is not like the normal boy. he doesn't cuss, he doesn't cuss me out and slam his door. he doesn't sneak out the window. he doesn't do anything the normal boys do. ah... it was sad, and beautiful and full of grace all at the same time.

i told him, that isn't the normal boy, that is the delinquent, wink. my son and i are talking about the feeling a lot and all kinds of things that are going on with sex, girlfriends and drugs, alcohol and all the other stuff now. and the football player and how special they are. it has been a huge jump this year from kid to preteen.

[Danmel]

12. A lot of parents live vicariously through their kids

Where I live, a lot of the women especially, want their little girls to look "hot" They are in their 40s and they try to look 20. They don't, they just look desperate. But the kids are dressed like they are working the off ramp of the Lincoln Tunnel. When my daughter was in 5th grade, the moms complained that the t-shirts for "Fun Night" weren't "sexy" enough. I asked them exactly who they wanted their 10 years old to be 'sexy" for and they looked at me like I had ten heads. I figure, anyone who thinks my 10 year old is sexy is someone I don't want anywhere near my kid.

They let their 10 year olds listen to gangsta rap and watch (at that time) Sex and the City on HBO, unedited. I don't quite understand what advantage this would bestow ont heir kids. A lot of parents just don't want to be parents- they don't want to say no-.

I'm not a prude my any stretch of the imagination but there are things that are appropriate for 10 year olds and things that are not. I feel sorry for these kids- they are being forced to pretend to understand things they really can't understand.

[mzmolly]

15. Hear hear!

I think you hit a few nails on the head. Combine the mentality you describe with the consumer driven culture we live in, and you have a recipe for kids growing up too fast.

My sister is a head start teacher and she says the many FOUR year olds come to pre-school dressed in questionable clothing?!

[KoKo]

22. Most difficult things parents have to deal with are the "trend setters" who

are so "with it" culturally that they figure their kids should be exposed to it all and that they will have the "wisdom" to pick and choose.

Maybe their kids will be lucky...but the rest of us have to hear what their "trendy kids" are doing, watching and wearing and if we don't agree with it for our kids we get hell to pay when our kids hear about the great sexy movie or the latest fashion sexy item the "trend setter" kids and their parents are wearing or doing in their lifestyle.

It depends on knowing your own kid and their level of development and awareness and ability to deal with what our culture and media throw at them as what they are "supposed to be doing and buying and wearing." It's a hard job being a "responsible parent" when there's nothing that defines "responsible" these days and one doesn't want to make their kid seem "out of it."

Still "sticking to principles" can gain respect if it's done with reason. It doesn't always work...but it would seem to be a resonable goal for parents given all we are faced with. :shrug:

[mzmolly]

27. Right.

Lots of good points. It's all a balancing act. Wanting kids to fit in and be "part" of society, while being able to maintain their own identity and make good decisions. Man, at the risk of sounding like Bush - it's "hard work." ;)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. I think the key is for like-minded parents to bond with one another

The suburb where my mother and stepfather used to live did this on the question of after-school activities. Sports practice and other kinds of lessons and clubs were taking place several times a week, and kids were never home for dinner. A group of parents started a petition to get the school district to designate an activity-free night, so that families could be together one evening a week.

To my mind, an even simpler solution would be to have parents join forces to tell their kids to choose two activities and no more.

(Actually, when I was growing up in a suburb near that, Wednesday was off-limits to school activities because it was considered "church night" in an era when nearly everyone was Lutheran or Catholic.)

[Clark2008]

30. I'm pregnant with my second - I currently have a boy - and

I'm hoping, like mad, for another boy. I seriously don't want to have to deal with a 10-year-old girl asking me if she's sexy.

Groan.

Not that boys don't have their own problems, but they don't seem as put upon to look "hot" as girls do.

(Caveat: if it's a girl, of course, I'll love her - it will just make my life a LOT more difficult).

[Bouncy Ball]

34. That's easy, just raise her right.

I have a 12 year old DD. I cannot imagine her asking me if she's sexy. No way. She's very much a 12 year old. Not really into boys, has never had a "boyfriend." Doesn't dress inappropriately (after all, I'm the one buying the clothes!) and doesn't watch things on TV that aren't appropriate for her.

Nothing to be scared of, girls are wonderful!

[Porcupine]

52. And throw out the television.

I have two daughters now 10 and 13. They do not watch television at either my house or the ex's. TV at Grandma's is largely restricted to Discovory Channel and advertisements are discussed with the mute on and dissected. They sometimes read DU over daddy's shoulder.

They seem to have no interest in getting "boyfriends" anytime soon. They view "THE MOVIE" and "THE TALK" as a form of abuse that they are expected to endure. Knowledge that they need but don't really want to use; like CPR training

Our family motto: "Hormones make you stupid." I explain that their friends and immediate elders acting under the influence of hormones are to be pitied and supported until the attack abates. I am very clear that their turn will come all too soon so mercy now will earn mercy later.

Either I am being fed a huge line of BS by two little girls or my evil plan is working.

[seabeyond]

61. kids were never big tv watchers. i would mostly put on movies

now they are 9 and 11 and they hardly EVER have it on. when it is on it is for discovery, animal planet, myth buster, history channel OR tvland with the old shows. lol

[Wcross]

69. Those people have no business raising children.

My god, a 10 year old is a child. Why would anyone in their right mind want to make their kid "sexy" looking? I am sure all the pedophiles really appreciate those peoples efforts.

[KoKo]

17. Don't worry about it. The earlier they become teens the more stuff they Buy

and the better our American GDP based on Consumerism is in the Global Economy. If they all have sex and have children then they need to buy clothes for the babies. They consume more products.

All those video games and TV shows that folks don't want censored are Great for our Economy. Let the kids be teen adults and get on with the sex stuff early. Why deprive them. The media and our culture demand it. It's GOOD!

Who cares if our kids wear clothes that might seem "suggestive." Who cares if they want to grow up EARLY. It's their RIGHT. They should be WHO THEY ARE and not be victims just because some pervert is turned on by a 10 year old in what some old fogey thinks is "suggestive" clothing. Go Naked. It's our right!

:sarcasm:

[mzmolly]

20. LOL

;)

[GreenArrow]

28. but, but, but, those are people's business plans you're mocking,

people who are justifying making their livings with the same rationalizations that you just posted sarcastically.

It's not likely to be a popular opinion around here, but that sort of mentality is dishonest, predatory and exploitative, and ultimately, antithetical to life. But what the hell, our society is basically built around it. Substitute the broader term "consumers" for the more specific "kids" and it applies to everyone -- our value and sense of self is dependent on what we buy, and not only that, buying becomes to a lesser or greater degree, our raison d'etre.

[mzmolly]

36. I've begun to educate my child about "consumerism."

I think it's essential education, especially today.

[BuyingThyme]

23. Harvey Klinger made a similar observation in 1970.

[madmusic]

29. And the 1910s

Children also found liberation at the movies. As automobiles pushed them off the streets and progressive reformers herded them into schools, American children lived more regimented lives. But they could escape parents, reformers, and other adults at the nickelodeons and movies palaces. "When the lights went down," Jane Addams reported, "they were free--as they were free nowhere else indoors--to behave like children: to shout, scream, howl, laugh aloud and jump up and down in their seats." No wonder children saved their pennies to go to the movies as often as possible. In one drab Connecticut mill town, nine out of ten children between the ages of ten and fourteen went to the photoplay.

But...

In 1906, Chicago gave its police force the authority to close down films depicting "crime, criminals and immoral scenes which appeal to small boys and weak-minded adults."

and...

The resulting Kansas State Board of Review dealt with the explosive Theda Bara's films by cutting or shortening depictions of smoking and drinking, eliminating suggestive intertitles, and striking closeups of "exposed limbs."

and...

Reformers had especially great hopes for the power of movies. "Motion pictures are going to save our civilization from the destruction which has successively overwhelmed every civilization of the past," promised Mary Gray Peck of the General Federation of Women's Clubs in 1916. The cinema would be a "grand social worker" who would encourage people to "sleep the sleep of the just."

Source: Michael McGerr.

[mzmolly]

38. At the risk of sounding ignorant

who's Harvey Klinger?

[BuyingThyme]

39. He was Marsha Brady's thirteen-year-old boyfriend.

He collected insects.

[mzmolly]

49. So he wasn't sexually active yet?

WTF is the matter with that kid?

[Radical Activist]

32. Yet we keep trying to delay adulthood.

Boomers at least, seem intent on delaying the age sexual activity begins to an age older than any society in history, while marriage is happening at an older age. What is their problem with teens becoming adults? Teens are only limited in maturity by the fact that they are sheltered and kept in ignorance.

[mzmolly]

37. I think the problem is with 10 year olds becoming adults?

Not to turn the conversation into one about me, but I grew up quite young. I moved out of the house at 16/17. At the age of 15, I began working and paying rent so I could make my own decisions. On my first night of "freedom," I came home at 4am after a night of partying, and made it to school the next day. Can't say my Mom wasn't perturbed, but "a deal is a deal" right? :evilgrin:

Anyhow, back to the subject ~ I'm not against teens having responsible sex, when they are ready emotionally. I am against kids feeling the need to grow up before they have had a childhood.

Also, one can't say that teens are only limited intellectually due to their being sheltered. Experience in life does teach us, if we allow ourselves to learn from it. I am a far different person at 40, than I was at 20, THANK GOODNESS! ;)

[devilgrrl]

40. Sounds like a new excuse for child labor

other than that, it's a bunch of fear mongering bullshit.

Say, what ever became of all those "crack babies"?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. Kids these days.

:eyes:

[zreosumgame]

51. LOL what utter hogwash

this is just another example of 'wishful thinking'. Pardon me but I was born in the mid 50's, and by the age of 10 had already had my 1st sexual encounter, and I know i was not the only one (consensual with others my own ae). So this report would have you think that the 50's and 60's were some Golden Age when everyone was innocent and no sex ever took place beyond the limits set by leave it to Beaver. Come on, that is just a poorly thought-out premise

[Book Lover]

56. Irony anyone? This thread is atop the "Kids staying home after college" thread

So they hurry up and grow up, and then stick themselves in adolescence for 20 years? Maybe something else is happening, like poor research and reporting...

[mzmolly]

63. I think the two are connected frankly.

People who are forced to grow up to quickly, often times never do.

[leftchick]

57. Is this true in other countries?

or just the warped tv/dvd/ipod/videogames/mtv/dowhatever culture of america?

[WI_DEM]

58. I think it's kind of a shame that kids grow up so quickly and not

allowed to be just kids. But then too many parents are willing to allow young kids to watch sexual/violent music videos and allow their kids to wear inappropriate clothes because it's the "in-thing." Little kids even have their own cell phones (as a safety device that might not be too bad). Too many kids are influenced by "role models" and girls want to be model thin. It's the age we live in, I guess.

[grasswire]

59. we've been discussing this in our family

There's a 14-year-old girl in our family whose whole reason for living is to attract a "man." She dresses mildly seductively (would do even more so if we weren't constantly advising her to cover herself. Give her twenty bucks to buy a shirt and she will come home with an off the shoulder slinky thing, guaranteed). She dresses to look thirty years old. She is totally wrapped up in pop culture, with no other hobbies or interests. She reads mildly pornographic "fan fiction" addictively, and has been in trouble at home for posing as a 19-year-old on such Internet sites as myspace.

The only thing saving her from getting in trouble with boys, probably, is that she is very flat-chested compared to her friends, and is rarely alone.

How did this happen? After the sesame street years, she watched very little television. Her parents are well-educated and do not participate in pop culture except for being film buffs. The last three years, though, she has had access to the really stupid TV programming aimed at pre-teen girls, all about getting the guy any way possible.

Her mother and I have lately been wondering if those Disney films such as Aladin were a form of anti-feminism. The female character was always sexualized and seeking her prince charming. This girl watched those movies obsessively when a small child. Indoctrination?

It may be too late to get this kid on a track that will emphasize strong womanhood through self improvement. My remedy would be mandatory athletics of some kind, and mandatory extracurricular time in a brainy area. Chess club, perhaps. Or student government. Or volunteering. But I'm not her mom.

To parents of young girls: keep the girls away from an exclusive diet of romance-based reading and entertainment. No television or computer in the bedroom. Don't emphasize fashion to them as a means of ego gratification. Help them find some activities that are gender neutral.

[seabeyond]

62. this is my oldest niece. the mom was buying her thong undies at 10

so she wouldnt have pantie lines. this was the attitude fed to her and what her mother projected to the child of female worth. the girl was allowed to use her sexuality in manipulating hte males in the family. htey didnt get it nor see it,.... but i did. she didnt like when having to face me. and the men around her would insist they would be firm and they never were. and spiraled out of control. preg at 15, abortion, ran away and lived with boyfriend, placed in foster home. now she is 18 and back in our life and spends a lot of time with me, working on healing her last handful of years. never without hope, her journey to travel and i am there for her when she wants it real. not gonna play the games though

my other niece, 14 and totally different with different female influences in her life.

[mzmolly]

64. Very interesting.

I love your 'remedy' suggestions. My child is fascinated with "The Disney Channel," I try not to be too "uptight" about that, but I agree with your remarks on many of the films. In addition to what you pointed out, Disney kills off mothers, and step mothers are generally evil. Thankfully, my child is interested in "Kim Possible" right now, and though she's a cheerleader, she's also a crime fighting super hero. ;)

It's tough because we all want our kids to fit in, yet be individuals who think for themselves.

One day at at time I guess?

[Stuckinthebush]

65. Disney Channel does have some good shows

Kim Possible does model a smart girl who is powerful, attractive, and has a best friend who is a geek.

That's So Raven is silly, but depicts a well adjusted "teen" who is seen as smart and attractive yet is overweight and not the traditional beautiful girl.

[mzmolly]

67. Thankfully those are my daughters two favorite programs.

:hi:

[LibertyLover]

66. Recently I went shopping for my 4 year old daughter at Old Navy

and I was very unhappy with the clothes they had for little girls (don't get me started on the garbage they were showing for older girls). I was looking for some plain jeans and a couple of sweatshirts to take with us when we go to Scotland in a few weeks. My daughter always complains that she is cold and I wanted to get her some warm tops. I had to go to the boys' section to get the sweatshirts - there were none in the girls' section and most of the tops there were short, had deep necklines (what the heck does a 4 year old have to show?) and just were inappropriately styled. It's Land's End and Carter's for her for a few more years. After that - goodness only knows.

[ismnotwasm]

68. Hmm

Kids are processing much more that in previous decades. Lot's of imagery of what should be obtainable, what is glamorous, what makes one valuable. As a feminist I'm particularly worried about little girls, but 10 year old boys with sagging pants (origin had something to do with "easy access" I believe) and other so called "gansta" wear concern me as well. As well male sex talk. We still have the virgin/whores motif for girls-- or should I say "slut"-- and sexual conquest as a sign of status for boys.

I don't think 10 year old girls giving blow jobs in the back of 7/11's is a sign of sexual evolution. Or freedom.

A ten year old thinks like a ten year old in most cases no matter what the outside trappings, but can be coerced into behavior they aren't ready for or don't understand. At ten, despite "crushes" the physical difference between boys and girls isn't as defined as it will be in a year or two.
Gender roles also concern me. I've seen five year old girls dressed "sexy". Why? Dunno. I've seen pressure put on 7 years old boys to "act like a man" What's that for a 7 year old? Dunno.

All I know is the truth for me, and that's is as long as inequities between sexes exist, rape culture is an accepted norm, this acceleration of sexuality will not have good consequences. For boys or girls

Actually maturity, or ability to make reasonable and informed decisions about complex behavior like sexuality isn't there at ten.

It's not what they are wearing, but what it represents, what it reflects about our society. I've always believed that evolution and revolution starts with youth, and I hate to see them buy into all the bullshit we buy into as adults.