When can we officially start a Pissing Contest Forum?

[joeunderdog]

Am I the only one who gets a sense of increasing divisiveness on this board? Rather than unified spirit and healthy debate, it's just an assortment of pissing contests with no common enemy. And even though I'm someone who believes it's a strength and not a weakness that Democrats don't alwaysagree, I think the degree to which DU'ers have squared off lately is a total disappointment.

Finally, we win the election and slay the dragon. So what do we do? We turn to each other to fight over the estate. That's what it feels like. The stampede to set the Congressional Agenda has become the X-Box Sale Gone Bad for soccer moms (and dads) at DU. The draft, Christmas, impeachment, gaydar, political correctness, even grammar--you name it, we fight about it. And when I say "fight," I mean fight, because the constructive debating has not carried the day lately on this board. Sure, there have been a few healthy threads thrown in the mix, but I had a vision of a board that expressed more of an upbeat sense of purpose once the Dems amazingly took control again. Just the opposite. The Freepers must be popping a little corn :popcorn: themselves.

I think we should save the venom for the Repukes. They still own the voting machines. They still have an extremely consolidated, RW media. We're still in Iraq. And on it goes.

As Ben Franklin once said, "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

[Le Taz Hot]

1. You think this is bad?

Just wait until the primaries. I check out of DU for about 9 months.

[Monkeyman]

3. I got some answers tonight I found out most on the DU

Blame Veterans and soldiers for what their government did. I also posted those responses on the Veterans sites. If it was not for those ground forces I sent the Senate would still be in Republican hands. We now are in a planning stage for 08. We shall see who we support this time.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. Ok I'll bite.

"I found out most on the DU Blame Veterans and soldiers for what their government did".

What discussion does that refer to? The tedious bring back the draft debate? While I've seen lots of stupid arguments on that topic, I did not see your particular case of stupidity.

[Monkeyman]

17. No I posted our issues as a test

I do not trust no one anymore. This time we drew a line in the sand. We found out people here say they support us. But when it comes down to it no they don't. They think because we fought we are part of the problem. But me being VVAW I found out what we needed to know. Trust No One Ever Again only those of us that know the truth wars are done by governments not by us who serve.

[omega minimo]

19. It would be dangerous and destructive to broadcast an impression that people

do not care about the troops, veterans and their families. The opposite is true.

[Monkeyman]

21. Not by their answers

Go to Veterans For America and read and learn .We see the truth in real answers not put on. I am a veteran who fought hard for this win. But those answers just proved me wrong.

[omega minimo]

24. "I found out most on the DU Blame Veterans and soldiers for what their government did"

3. "I got some answers tonight I found out most on the DU Blame Veterans and soldiers for what their government did. I also posted those responses on the Veterans sites."

Most? "Most on the DU"? And you "posted those responses on the Veterans sites"?

Not in OUR name. That's really damaging to spread that sort of conjecture.

[Monkeyman]

25. Screen name deleted but those where how some felt here

The truth should always be put out. We learned the hard way when we came home from Nam. And because of a few bad soldiers it is happening again

Last thing when Murtha got swift boated where do you think the veterans came from
How do you think the Democrats used Veterans issues to beat Replugs
How to you think Fairfax VA huge Military town voted Democrat
How do you think KC a huge military town voted Democrat
It could be we veterans went door to door
It could be the DUNC or DC CC did not hold us back this time
But again we are starting to see people kicking the troops and veterans.

[omega minimo]

32. What truth? You post some questions and know what "Most of DU" thinks?

Doesn't sound like what youre puttin out is the truth.

[Monkeyman]

34. So what people here say when they bash every soldier for what a few do

Is not what they say or feel? Or when I asked if the Democrats can fix the VA and they say no its not on the agenda. So that not truth hmmm sounds like people don't want what they say to be in our world . We veterans have band as one unit this run. So what if you say we are not part of the agenda then what are you saying. If you bash all troops for what a few do then what are you saying lies thats not how you feel . Sounds like John O'Neil and the swift boaters to us. Say what you believe to us not just be nice when you want something from us.

[uppityperson]

39. Some=Most? BS

[elehhhhna]

57. Hey! The statistics prove it! Oh wait..there's no link, no survey, no stats

just a load of baloney.

Nevermind.

[Dhalgren]

27. Wow! I was wondering about this.

"If it was not for those ground forces I sent, the Senate would still be in Republican hands."

So you are the one who won the elections! Thanks! But is it ok if some of us want to be represented too, or is this Congress just yours?

[Monkeyman]

37. No We helped But without it Four people in the Senate would of lost

Veterans issues in the House races played a huge part. But don't even think we don't read like when two soldiers where tossing water to running kids. Or when the Marines where charged We read everything said. How many bashed the whole military. When I posted tonight about Veterans issues I pulled it after we heard what was said. Think before you say anything there are a lot of us hear. And we see and hear what you say.

[Dhalgren]

55. I'm a vet, too. So are a lot of folks on this board. There are but a

few people here who blame the troops FOR ITEMS THAT ARE NOT THEIR FAULT. Some troops get the criticism because they deserve it. Anyone who has served in the military knows that there are some soldiers who deserve no support - I've known some personally. Soldiers are not robots, they have decisions to make, some make them well, some do not. Try not to paint everyone here with the same brush - things are seldom that simple...

[porphyrian]

33. Bull-fucking-shit. "Most" my ass.

I've personally posted more pro-veteran threads than I've seen individual posts blaming veterans and soldiers. I don't doubt that some people have said shit like that, there are a whole lot of different opinions here, but if you think that's the opinion of "most" on DU, you aren't reading most of the posts.

[Monkeyman]

35. Then go back and read the post

[porphyrian]

36. Which post is "the post?"

And unless over 450,000 individual DUers said anti-veteran/soldier things in it, I'm still calling bullshit on your "most."

[Monkeyman]

38. Most may be a strong statement but it did what it needed to

We been seeing to many bashing kids in Iraq which most are suffering from mental problems Or yelling about how they made kids run for water not known is they stopped they would be targeted. So before you bash know this We Do Not Kill unless we have to unlike Bush and Company . We cannot say a word while in. But look at how many are talking now that they are out. We got treated like shit when we came home from Nam don't do it again its not all their fault

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. My brother in law is a nam vet

and a 20 year vet of the Navy

My husband is a 20 year vet of the USN.

reality is that most civilians don't serve. You have less than one percent of the population currently in uniform. So it is very easy for some folks to generalize from the few bad leadership examples they see to the whole military.

OTOH... you are doing the same thing. Don't generalize from a few A-Holes to a whole community.

As to the VA... you tell me it is not in their agenda... you do know who fought to keep the Republicans from cutting the VA funding, don't you? That should be your free clue of what they are going to do. They have to prioritize, aka do triage. their first 100 hours have things that will benefit all, including vets, such as raising the minimum wage. Does that mean that the VA is not somewhere in there? Given the record of who has fought to keep the VA funded, I think that should answer your concerns.

As to the A-Holes, all gruops have them. As a vet, you should know what to do with those opinions... I do expect you to know that saying about a-holes and smell.

[uppityperson]

42. "we do not kill unless we have to"? Abeer, Hadeel, Fakhriya and Qassim

They were murdered. Abeer was raped, murdered and mutilated. Yes, these were only "some" soldiers, but they did murder. That video of soldiers making kids run for water, knowing if they stopped they would be targeted? Perhaps they would have been targeted it they'd stopped. But why taunt those kids and laugh about tempting and taunting them?

Some is accurate. Some soldiers. Some DUers. Most are decent. Some are not.

[porphyrian]

43. MOST OF US AREN'T. That's my point.

How many people said those things here? Three? Ten? Even if it was fifty, there are over 900,000 registered users on DU. You are talking about less than one percent of everyone here. That's why I'm calling bullshit.

Another thing, there's a difference between supporting someone and supporting them the way they would prefer. We could do everything you say we should, and we'd still be pissing off some soldier somewhere. We're not here to make everyone happy, we're here to to discuss what's going on and what can be done about it, and we've got more opinions than assholes. No one speaks for all of us, just as I'm pretty sure you don't speak for all soldiers and veterans. That doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't make your voice heard. Just the opposite. But don't accuse us all of bashing kids in Iraq, that's simply not true.

[Lasher]

52. I served, got out 5DEC70

I felt the resentment back then. We couldn't wait to change into civvies to avoid it. But it's different now. Soldiers are mostly treated with the respect they deserve. Good, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. And no one here at DU has ever dumped on me just because I have served. Who's doing that to you? Gimmie a link so I can jump in.

[uppityperson]

40. which post is "the post" that most DUers...

"Blame Veterans and soldiers for what their government did."

Which, where and whom? I call bs on this claim.

[Monkeyman]

44. Here is why I started the debate

I got three emails from kids who post here they are in Iraq they wanted you all to know they are here. They do not want to say whats on their minds because they are watched. But they felt you where attacking them. It had to be done so they know you are not. The VA is not on the 100 day agenda yet. I'll take the heat but those who did bash them because of a few stop. Ok the kids these guys in a bad way they make joke to release the fear. If you never been under fire you will not understand that. Here's a ex sample your in a fox hole a five year old kid with a grenade come at you what do you do.These kid see this crap everyday. Some are there for the fifth time. So when you see something there maybe don't bash them all just the ones who do it. So Be Pissed but it had to be done as a wake up call

[uppityperson]

48. Thank you, so you mean in general, not any particular posts/topics?

So you do not mean any particular topics but just in general "Most" Duers blame vets and soldiers for what the gvt has done? Most bash all soldiers for what some do? Most say fixing VA is not on agenda? "Most" is your general view and not specific topics or what topics are you talking about?

VA benefits suck, many of us are working with congress people trying to get them better. Yes, people in military in Iraq are under a whole lot of shitty environment and stuff. War is hell and being killed may be the least of it and when they come home they do not get the medical or mental health care they need.


"So Be Pissed but it had to be done as a wake up call." What?


Again, as some have said already, there are some jerks everywhere. "Most" DUers do not diss the military. Many of us question what is going on and why and feel very bad for these young people having to participate and support those who work against the bs. You would be better off saying "some" not "most"

[U4ikLefty]

49. Okay, Okay, Okay....NOW can you PLEASE post a link to the post(s)

to which you are refering that offend our troops???

I smell something funny every time you evade & then grandstand.

Please prove me wrong.

[TahitiNut]

51. I share your concernss, if not 'most' then at least 'most vocal'

Some of the stuff I've read here is outright vicious. Even tombstoned trolls have gotten agreement from 10-20% on the most extreme stuff I've read on DU in a loong time. The future does not look good for veterans - worse than the 70s, I think. :cry:

At the same time, there are some truly awesome people on DU - some of the best I've met both IRL and online. (Some stuff can't really be faked.)

[tavalon]

53. You talked to all 100,000?

Wow, you've been busy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. No, but just like me he's been around for a long

and I mean A LONG TIME

[Lex]

2. One man's pissing contest is another man's lively debate.

:shrug:

[Le Taz Hot]

6. Nope.

It's a pissing contest. It's several hundred pissing contests going on all at the same time. For months. However, LBN remains good for its links.

[Lex]

22. As Skinner says in the rules under "Freedom to Leave"

"All visitors to the Democratic Underground website are here voluntarily. Nobody is forcing you to post on this message board."


I don't think it's such a bad place and I overlook the skirmishes and if necesssary use the "hide thread" feature liberally.

[Le Taz Hot]

56. And as I stated upthread

I take a leave for about 9 months, or didn't you read that part? And nobody said it was a bad place. I said, ah nevermind . . . may I suggest a reading comprehension program?

[buddysmellgood]

4. Are we talking about penmanship or strength of stream? A real pissing match

should have categories.

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. The more things change, the more they stay the same. As it always was.

[The Straight Story]

7. I am pretty quick on the draw, and shoot straight too:

As Ben Franklin once said, "We must all be well hung together, or assuredly we shall all be well hung separately."

[Nikki Stone1]

8. You know, some boards have a forum for flame wars and raging battles

These are usually unmoderated and you enter at your own risk because it becomes a free-for-all. When threads in a more general area of the board get too hot, they are thrown into this flame/battle forum by the moderator and people can fight to their heart's content or until the alcohol wears off. In some places, these kinds of forums are limited to paying members only or members over 18.

Just a suggestion.

[boolean]

9. What do you think GD is?!?

God. Do you read the board? It's ALWAYS been this way!

[Lex]

23. Exactly.

I don't get it--there's been no substantive change.

Buck up people!

[The Straight Story]

10. testing smilie:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

15. Uh.. I .... Errr

borrowed it. :blush: Ok with you?

[The Straight Story]

31. That's what I did along with these:

and one called
devilex.gif which is a tad naughty so I won't post but you can look :)

[HCE SuiGeneris]

True that there is a lot of divisiveness and

subdued name-calling. My take is that the prevailing aura of fear propagated by KKKarl and Co. for too many years, has undermined our ability to argue with passion and integrity. The trauma of the crimes committed against "we the people" begets arguments based in anger, resentment, shame, and a myriad more non-productive -- and oft-times irrational -- emotions.

I am guilty of inflammatory rhetoric and admit that this type of discourse has the effect of alienating the person, instead of engaging them. I apologize. We have achieved a huge goal in retaking the house and senate. We have a ton of work to do in rectifying wrongs. Ideas are essential, and the merits of such, need debate. This is our country -- our forum -- our thoughts. Let's make the most of our energies and keep moving forward.

Thanks joe for surfacing this.:dem: :patriot:

[lapfog_1]

11. The same time that I get to start a Pissing Forum Contest.

Have to start coming up with the rules for the contest but I'm sure distance and accuracy will be involved.

[UTUSN]

13. You're a beautiful person n/t

[QuestionAll...]

14. please define pissing contests...

it's a male thing, right?
like an olympic version of shot put, or javelin. who can spray the farthest?

you're leaving out some of us.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

16. this is important... i am k&r'ing it

[omega minimo]

18. Will "Standing Up" be a requirement?

Yeah the fighting goes nowhere fast.

[snowbear]

20. Lissen' Up JoeUnderdog..............

You should know damn well by now that with close to 100 thousand people registering to post at DU at one time or another, that it's often hard to tell when it's a Freeper doing the pissing here only to stir the pot.

I wouldn't be so quick to pat the Freepnoids on their pathetic little backs saying that they're sitting back, popping corn and enjoying the ride..

The low-life sons of bitches just had their asses handed to them on a platter!



And just remember ----- a lot of the scumbags come HERE posing under their freepy little aliases only to cause trouble -->

You should know all this by now.

[EdwardM]

26. It's pretty hard to find common ground with someone who wants to draft me into Iraq.

[savemefromdumbya]

29. yes

draft makes me nervous

[Warren Stupidity]

59. Oh but don't you know, the draft ends wars!

Obviously you haven't been paying attention. The draft will prevent all those bad wars, in fact the draft ended the vietnam war! Or so I've been told. And it seems you cannot dispute that as IT IS PROVEN.

[Lilith Velkor]

28. GD is it.

It's always been like this.

Buckaroo Banzai once said, "No matter where you go, there you are."

[porphyrian]

30. Oh, suck it up. We ARE all together. That doesn't mean we have to fucking agree on everything.

Families fight. If you aren't used to it, you're probably an only child. This is normal. If it really disturbs you, read something else. Even if we hate each other's guts, I'm still going to fight for you and everyone else here when it comes to the things we agree on. The last thing we need is homogeneous opinion.

[ContraBass Black]

45. There's always a complaint about increasing hostility here.

I don't see an increase, I just see different people catching it in the face.


"I had a vision of a board that expressed more of an upbeat sense of purpose once the Dems amazingly took control again."

On this board? You can't be serious.

[symbolman]

46. Okay

but the women always win because they tell the men, "Uh uh, NO HANDS!" once THEY'VE made their mark on the wall.. :)

Couldn't resist, old joke...

[Neshanic]

47. We are Democrats. This is what we do, unlike mindless repub robots from 1957.

[Quantess]

50. It's because Dems now have the house and senate.

Now we're bickering out of boredom.

[LWolf]

54. Winning the election isn't necessarily a win.

A "win" depends on what the Democrats in Congress do with their newly found influence. Which is where all the disagreements begin.