Colo. subdivision bans wreath peace sign

[CatWoman]

DENVER - A homeowners association in southwestern Colorado has threatened to fine a resident $25 a day until she removes a Christmas wreath with a peace sign that some say is an anti-
Iraq war protest or a symbol of Satan.

Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs. He said some residents have also believed it was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.

"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.

Lisa Jensen said she wasn't thinking of the war when she hung the wreath. She said, "Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061127/ap_on_re_us/anti_peace_sign

[QuestionAll...]

1. new wreath in the works...

the prince of piece (of the action)
that ought to be legal.
:(

[pitohui]

2. "peace on earth, goodwill toward men"

the homeowner's association nazis need to shut up and stand down and re-read their bible until they figure out that christ, the prince of peace, is the reason for the season and all the rest of that good happy crap

no one believes the peace symbol is a symbol of satan, they are lying

the lady should countersue for religious harassment, if you can't be for "peace on earth" at christmas, when just when would this ever be allowed in colorado?

[eleny]

5. Loma Linda's HOA is making war on Christmas

[GreenPartyVoter]

25. I love peace wreaths. They are beautiful and so right for the occasion.

[Tinksrival]

28. It is beautiful and it's lighted!

What the heck is wrong with some people!



I'm going to make one too!

[shadowknows69]

36. Agreed

these people really need to dust off that old book they supposedly follow without question.

[Bill McBlueState]

41. maybe they read a different part

where Jesus is all like, "I didn't come to bring peace, I came with a sword!!11!" and they think that peace signs are anti-Jesus.

[nebenaube]

3. ok... we got's time... let's make these national!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There will be one on the front of my house in the morning!

[hobbit709]

4. I'd tell them where to go

and hang up another peace wreath. Every time they bitch, I'd put up another one.

[Greybnk48]

6. We'll have one up by Weds.

What a bunch of jerks.

[sandnsea]

7. Kearns fired committee members

Love that freedom and democracy. What are we fighting 'em over there for again???

"Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members."

[Trillo]

44. Maybe that's why we're fighting 'em over there,

cause we're so busy fighting executive dictators over here.

[wtmusic]

8. Satan is against Jesus' war

Evil bastard :crazy:

[Warpy]

9. People always wonder why I live in rotten parts of town

The reasons are three: more space for the buck, professional thieves looking elsewhere for puters, antiques, fine jewelry and the lot (you can usually defeat the junkie burglar with the screwdriver), and no bloody homeowners' associations.

Yes, the colors on some of the houses here are, um, exuberant. Yes, people may have old sofas and car seats on the front porch while they save for swings and benches, but it's HOME. I know and like my neighbors. Nobody tells me what color to paint my place, how often I have to wash the car, whether or not I can have a clothesline, blah blah blah.

I can't imagine how people live like that.

[QuestionAll...]

13. no kidding. I like to be lax. I like to not worry about the stupid little things.

so my yard has doggie do's (but my dog is the bestest in the world). and maybe the grass isn't trim monsanto chemical electric green, and there is a bit of paint peeling here and there and other non-commercial clean view of what a 'home' should be.

fortunately I live in a neighborhood where no policing of this kind goes on. but if someone told me I couldn't put out a peace wreath, ... actually I don't know what my reaction would be...it's so alien a thought....

[noamnety]

10. Well. That's ironic.

Just for the hell of it, I googled Pagosa Springs and Peace.

In 1940 Hugh Harmon, from Pagosa Springs, won recognition from the Nobel Prize jury for his animated film "Peace on Earth."

http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/filmography.html?p_id=187975

[drthais]

11. I'll tell you what I did....

I googled the town, then the Loma Linda Homeowners, then the town newspaper.
And I wrote a quick and angry LTTE.
Every one of you should do the same
this is outrageous.

[Sydnie]

18. How about sharing that email address then?

:shrug: Save the rest of us the google time, m'kay?

[marmar]

12. A symbol of Satan?

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[Nikki Stone1]

14. Yeah, that was really weird.

Even the John Birch society doesn't say the peace sign is a demonic symbol.

[Bucky]

15. These people are just waiting for a new Joe McCarthy to come along.

Anything that doesn't conform to blind obedience to authority is automatically suspect, and therefor must be the devil's work. Lord, help us.

[Journeyman]

24. Umm. . . actually, they do. . .

and have for over 40 years. . .

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_149.html


The symbol itself is indeed similar to the Nero Cross, an inverted broken cross on which Peter was said to have been crucified in the 5th century. During the Middle Ages, it wa adopted for use in various Satanic order rituals.

http://www.kolahstudio.com/Underground/?p=71


As used today, however, the popular Peace Symbol was created in the late '50s by the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament in the UK, and is a combination of the semaphoric signals for the letters N and D.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_symbol


fwiw. . .

[Nikki Stone1]

29. Yes, someone posted that below

Very interesting stuff.

[villager]

16. ah, so the rightwing "war on Christmas" is okay then?

n/t

[Bucky]

17. BINGO!! I just found the origin of the Peace symbol (and it ain't Satan)

It comes from the first anti nuclear movement in Britain in the 1950s. It's based on the semaphore poses for the letters D and N (for "Devil" and "Nachos" -- ha-ha, just kidding -- it stands for "Nuclear Disarmament")

A later design added a circle around the semaphore pose to suggest rebirth or some such hokey sentiment. The first peace badges looked like this:



The meme that they're satanic isn't exactly new. From DesignBoom.com, the website where I got this info, we learn ("sic" on the lame capitalization, by the way)...

"there have been claims that the symbol has older, occult or anti-christian associations and that it was a 'symbol of death'.

this fifth century illustration depicts st.peter crucified upside-down. the inverted crucifix was known for centuries as the ‘nero cross’ from the roman reign of the emperor nero (54-68 A.D.)

in the middle ages the ‘nero cross’ was adapted in satanists rituals. it can also be seen as composed of a tyr rune, or by the rune, turned upside down (in german ‘todesrune’/ the rune of death.)"

But loony theories have to start somewhere, right?

[Subdivisions]

20. Here's the Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_sign

I don't think it has ever been used as a religious symbol of peace. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Bucky]

31. Many churches and religious groups proudly display this, but it's still a secular symbol.

It sure ain't satanic.

[Nikki Stone1]

22. Yes, legend has it that Peter was crucified upside down, but I had never seen the

illustration. The arm placement is odd--I thought the cross (even upside down) was at strict right angles.

Why the Satanists would choose it is also odd, though its connection with the rune might explain some of that.

Why did the peace momement choose semaphore depictions of the letters?

[Bucky]

33. Historians aren't sure which cross Romans used to cruicify Jesus. They had both T and X shaped types

There's precious little historical record from the little Roman colonial backwater of Palestine, so most illustrators defer to the traditional T shaped cross. But the X shaped cross is actually a more efficient form of delivering a slow painful death.

[Norrin Radd]

42. It could be inspired by Odin hanging on Yggdrasill upsidedown.

n/t

[Lisa]

30. my dad told me that too, back more than 2 decades ago

He worked as a professional graphic artist and designer, and he tends to be right about this kind of question. (And being a scout leader, he also knew his semaphore!)


Anyone remember Stephen King's Christmas lighting display a while back?

[likesmountains 52]

19. this is the link from the local paper..front page

http://www.durangoherald.com/asp-bin/article_generation.asp?article_type=news&article_path=/news/06/news061126_2.htm
Pagosa Springs has a lot of ex-Texans living there in retirement and/or vacation homes...

[ContraBass Black]

35. "Loma Linda residents are offended by the Peace Sign displayed on the front of your house."

Maybe it will be OK if they replace it with an AK-47 replica.

[Flying Dream Blues]

60. Let's not drag Texas into this one, too...nt

[likesmountains 52]

68. Not meaning to be a Texas basher...just stating the facts about

Pagosa Springs...

[Lex]

21. Yo, check this

found here: http://www.wreathfactory.com/

[Minnesota_Lib]

23. I wonder if they have asked local preachers to self-censor any mention of "peacemakers" and...

..that guy who said they were blessed?

[SoyCat]

26. Not to mention nixing all the "Peace on Earth, goodwill to man" crap--

and let us not forget the holiday cards that have "Peace" printed on the front. Those have to go as well.

:sarcasm:

Nitwits:crazy:

[JohnLocke]

27. "Glory to God in the highest, and on Earth peace, and goodwill towards men."

[symbolman]

32. I got names, addresses and Phone #s of

Lisa Jensen and Two Bob Kearns (one living in Loma Linda, another in Pagosa Spring) and will share that with anyone who wants to PM me and verify it so we might blast the CORRECT asshat with 100,000 Lessons about Christmas, the Prince of peace, etc, etc..

Can't figure out HIS email addy, as I'd like to pass that on to someone who'd post it, I figure the DU doesn't need to be sued by Bob SATAN Kearns :)

Too bad I can slather my house with Nazi Symbols and then tell them to go fuck themselves if they don't like the ANCIENT Symbol for PEACE ala the East Indians and Some American Tribes as well :) (older than the Nazis, the Swastika was conscripted by them and made into a vile symbol now)..

Oh, for a kick, go to Google Map and have a look at Loma Linda.. the houses are all about 100 feet apart there or more, you'd probably MISS the sign if you didn't know it was there..

[Phredicles]

34. Funny how the righties caterwauling about "Policitcal Correctness"

never seem to notice stuff like this.:grr:

[uppityperson]

37. Isn't Jesus supposed to be the prince of peace or some such?

don't know my terms but this one is stuck in my head. So having a peace wreath up to celebrate the birth of christ is......bad?

[ms liberty]

49. From The Messiah, song "For Unto Us" by Handel:

For Unto Us a Child is Born
Unto Us
A Son is Given
Unto Us
A Son is Given

And His Name Shall Be Called...

Wonderful!
Councillor!
The Mighty God!
The Everlasting Father!

The Prince of Peace!

[threadkillaz]

38. pa-ram-pam-pam-pam

It Came Upon the Midnight Clear - Edmund Sears

It came upon the midnight clear,
That glorious song of old,
From angels bending near the earth,
To touch their harps of gold;
“Peace on the earth, good will to men,
From Heaven’s all gracious King.”
The world in solemn stillness lay,
To hear the angels sing.

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/i/t/itcameup.htm

--

Let There Be Peace On Earth - Miller/Jackson

Let There Be Peace on Earth and let it begin with me.
Let There Be Peace on Earth, the peace that was meant to be!
With God as our Father, brothers all are we.
Let me walk with my brother in perfect harmony.

http://www.christmas-carols.net/carols/peace-on-earth.html

--

Peace On Earth/Little Drummer Boy - Bowie/Crosby

And they told me pa-ram-pam-pam-pam
A new-born king to see pa-ram-pam-pam-pam
Our finest gifts we bring pa-ram-pam-pam-pam
Ra-pam-pam-pam, ra-pam-pam-pam

Peace on Earth, can it be
Years from now, perhaps we'll see
See the day of glory
See the day, when men of good will
Live in peace, live in peace again

Peace on Earth, can it be

http://www.teenagewildlife.com/Singles/POELDB1982/POELDB.html

--

Christmas Peace Album - Elvis Presley

http://www.amazon.com/Christmas-Peace-Elvis-Presley/dp/B0000CBIN5

--

Let There Be Peace: New Carols For A New Generation Album

http://www.essentialchristian.com/product_info.php?products_id=22327

[mentalsolstice]

39. That's. So. Wrong.

Even if (and I can't go there myself) you're pro-Iraq war or stay-the-course, how can you be against eventual peace? I can't wrap my "beautiful" mind around such thinking. We have a bumper sticker on our car that say "Old Hippies for Peace", we wear it proudly!

[johnaries]

40. "If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," Uh, yeah!

I believe it's called "freedom of expression".

By that same reasoning, if this wreath has to come down, then every other wreath in the sub-division has to come down.

[rman]

43. having children serving in Iraq, and not wanting peace in Iraq...

RWers and their logic.

"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up,"

That's right, it's called freedom of expression - but that to changed since 9/11.

[democrank]

45. Ms. Jensen should have known better.

Maybe she could hang a "KILL" wreath next time to be more in keeping with the Homeowners Association of Pagosa Springs.

[and-justice-for-all]

46. Lets see....

...I bought and pay for the house, the taxes and such so I will be damned if I let some dip shit fuckers tell me what I can and can not put on my front door.

And if it was a symbol of Satan, tough shit. If you believe in G-d then you have to believe in Satan and Satanism is a religion and we have the free excercise there of...

[Tesha]

47. Protected political speech. Homeowner will win if she challenges this.

It's protected political speech and the homeowner will win
if she challenges this.

She should contact her local ACLU affiliate or ACLU National.

Tesha

[mondo joe]

54. No - because she likely agreed to certain terms to be in the association.

That doesn't mean this is a slam dunk - but you can sign away some of your own rights.

[Tesha]

55. (Removed by poster in favor of a more-nuanced message below)

[mondo joe]

56. Of course you can. It's pretty well established.

It's one reason I'd never choose to be in one of those idiot associations.

And the Constitution ensures that government will not infringe on your free speech -- not that you can't opt to belong to an association that does so of your own free will.

[Tesha]

57. You're obviously correct and my statement was over-broad, but...

You're obviously correct and my statement was over-broad, but
there actually *IS* an issue here, and that is that in some cases,
the HOA has been construed as a quasi-governmental organization
and subject to those same constitutional rules that de facto
governments are constrained by.

This is especially the case when it is political speech that
is being regulated.

Tesha

[mondo joe]

59. That's more subject to the particular state.

And I don't know what the Colo. situation is.

That said, even if the HOA has the power in this situation, if I were the homeowner I'd pay the fine just to keep it up and spite the HOA assholes.

[leftchick]

48. Buy One Here!

I am! Thank You for the inspiration CW!

:hi:

http://www.organicbouquet.com/p_58/pine-wreath-peace.html?categoryid=64




We can't think of a nicer way to promote "peace on earth" this season than to display this simple, universal symbol of peace and understanding in your home. Designed exclusively for Organic Bouquet and handcrafted using organic Shore Pine needles gathered in the Pacific Northwest, each wreath conveys a message of peace and harmony for all. Plus, with every purchase of this beautiful pine wreath 5% will be donated to Adopt-A-Minefield to help resolve the global landmine crisis!

Year after year, it's easy to see why this is one of our most popular and best-selling wreaths. 18 inches in diameter

[trumad]

50. Too be fair to the homeowners

it sounds to me that there are just a couple of idiots who are raising the fuss... The biggest idiot, the prez of the Homeowners fired 5 of the members who told him they would not vote for the removal of the wreath..

I'm sure the majority of the homeowners think this is bullshit and I can pretty much guarantee than this guy won't be the prez to much longer.

[conscious evolution]

51. How can the perv,imean prez

of theHOA just fire the other board members?Most HOA's I am familar with have to vote board members in and out.
Sounds like another meme to use against him:"Why do you hate democracy?!?!?!?"

[tabasco]

52. Everybody knows it's just them dirty hippie types that fly that peace symbol.

I can see why the upstanding citizens of this development don't want anything to do with hippies and peace signs. First thing you let them fly their peace sign and the next thing you know the Negroes are moving in.

[treestar]

53. OH, man, does every complaint have to be the subject of

law? Can't people put up with anything and just agree to disagree? Even the craziest person (a symbol of Satan????????) gets taken seriously these days.

[stepnw1f]

58. Peace Sign = Satan? WTF!??!?!?!?!?!!?

What a bunch of twisted fools. This is going to blow-back in their faces.

I'll have to stick a GIANT Peace Symbol on my car's rear window.

[mongo]

61. Oh God...

Was it last week there was a thread where a HOA banned smoking inside owners homes, and a couple could no longer smoke in their own home?

The DU gestalt on that thread was that the people knew there was a HOA when they bought the condo and the HOA has the right to make the rules, blah blah blah.

What the hell is wrong with people that they can only defend personal rights when they agree with the person?

[Vinca]

62. Beyond the stupidity of it all, wouldn't there be a freedom of

speech issue here? That homeowner's association proves one thing for certain: there are people in this world with way too much time on their hands.

[SoCalDem]

63. Homeowners Association.. says it all...

Little fiefdoms run by a bunch of narrowminded busybodies..

[spoony]

66. Yep, they are sickening

They create these homogenous, gray neighbourhoods that have the soul sucked right out of them.

(This topic led to some interesting media, like an X-Files episode and a funny horror film with John Ritter, lol)

[timber84]

64. Where can I get one today?

any ideas?

[Bluebear]

65. TAINTED!!!!111 GARGOYLES!!!!!!

DARK-SIDED!!!!!!!!!!!11111

[Lex]

67. K & R

:kick:

[likesmountains 52]

69. Front page story in the local Sunday paper at link:

edited for bad link

[spanone]

70. Gonna get me one!

[likesmountains 52]

71. sorry..here is the correct link

http://www.durangoherald.com/asp-bin/article_generation.asp?article_type=news&article_path=/news/06/news061126_2.htm

[Lex]

72. .

:kick: