America shops while Iraq burns - great commentary by Bob Herbert

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

The competing television news images on the morning after Thanksgiving were of the unspeakable carnage in Sadr City — where more than 200 Iraqi civilians were killed by a series of coordinated car bombs — and the long lines of cars filled with holiday shopping zealots that jammed the highway approaches to American malls that had opened for business at midnight.

{snip}

There is something terribly wrong with this juxtaposition of gleeful Americans with fistfuls of dollars storming the department store barricades and the slaughter by the thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, including old people, children and babies. The war was started by the U.S., but most Americans feel absolutely no sense of personal responsibility for it.

{snip}

The war has now lasted as long as the American involvement in World War II. But there is no sense of collective sacrifice in this war, no shared burden of responsibility. The soldiers in Iraq are fighting, suffering and dying in a war in which there are no clear objectives and no end in sight, and which a majority of Americans do not support.

They are dying anonymously and pointlessly, while the rest of us are free to buckle ourselves into the family vehicle and head off to the malls and shop.

http://select.nytimes.com/2006/11/27/opinion/27herbert.html

[MannyGoldstein]

1. By Design

At the risk of stating the obvious, this war was designed this way.

When the Barbaras, Jennas, and Chelseas of the world have to grab a gun instead of a fistful of corrupt cash, their parents will be less likely to send our young off to die.

[Erika]

3. Chelsea profited by corrupt cash? Please explain.

Thanks.

[MannyGoldstein]

7. She's At A Hedge Fund, I'm Told

Hedge funds are exclusively for the Predator Class - the patrons of the Clinton family. The Predator Class has made much of its money by sodomizing the Middle Class using the government it has purchased - outsourcing jobs to low-wage countries, breaking unions, raising taxes on the Middle Class while lowering it on the Rich, and so forth.

[Erika]

12. The predators are the Patrons of the Clinton family?

and Chelsea is just another predator? How interesting.

The Clintons certainly weren't born with a silver spoon in their mouths like the Bushs.

Attack as you wish.

[MannyGoldstein]

21. As You Wish

Hedge funds are are pretty much like the Grameen foundation... and the Clintons fought hard for the Middle Class...

[AndyTiedye]

10. The Results Of the Elections Suggest Otherwise

The elections were more than anything a NO vote on the war.

The people oppose the war by a 2-1 margin.

We turned the Republicans out of power in both houses of Congress.

But we are not waging a war on Christmas, despite what some right-wingers may claim.

[Erika]

2. No sense of sacrifice at all and the W twins are on holiday

in Argentina for two weeks. Paris Hilton is happy...all is well with the world. Tell us anything but how our troops or Iraqis are suffering. Now just go out and sing O Holy Days and Joy to the World.

I'm surprised www.icasualties.org is still open to viewing.

[JI7]

4. i read about WWII and what a huge contrast it is to today

about how the entire nation contributed to that war. how people cut back, shut off power in the west coast. so many things.

these days there is no sense of personal responsiblity . people think putting on a yellow ribbon magnet is enough.

most people don't even know or care about what is happening in Iraq. whether it's to the people of iraq or the American soldiers.

a lot of people just respond with "well, that's war".

[Erika]

5. Yet W's Iraqi war has lasted longer than WWII

And the American people are strangely silent. No skin off their noses, why do they care? Heard a statement on CSPAN that less than only 1% of the public have a family member in Iraq. Yeah, just 500,000 troops over there.

So the GOP carry on singing Xmas songs. How sick.

[wundermaus]

6. ssshhhhh...

Don't bother me, I'm watching TV. (there's a commercial on after the faux gnus and I can save some money if I buy now)

[latebloomer]

40. Welcome to DU, vmaus!

What a great pic!


:hi:

[JI7]

8. and these people think there is something wrong with you if you

are concerned with what is happening. i encounter this type of attitude so many times. one reason i come to DU so much is because there are so many people here who are concerned about these issues.

but if you just go out and talk to people randomly most don't seem to care.

everytime i talk about these world issues and politics i get people saying to me things like "well, i guess so, if you say so" uhmmm.

it gets to a point where i get angry at these types more than the ignorant right wing assholes.

[Erika]

9. Most don't want to know

Just one percent of our families are sacrificing. If they aren't part of the 1% they don't care.

They won't look at www.icasualties.org They are like W, just carry on and be happy.

[AndyTiedye]

11. They Did Not Call Off Christmas During WW2 Though

[JI7]

13. i never said to call off Christmas

[Erika]

14. It is a touch ironic if the GOP wants the normal Xmas

Since W sent in troops against a Muslim country and made their Xmas day hell.

[JI7]

16. it would be different if the focus was on raising money and toys for children

and families of the soldiers serving overseas or helping the children of Iraq. but we have none of that. the problem isn't even that Americans are spending for themselves. but it's the total lack of concern among some about what is happening in Iraq.

the media is one of the worst. i really hate them and blame them largely for what is happening in the nation. instead of calling out the Chimp on the death and destruction he has caused for so many they love to laugh with him about some non sense.

[Erika]

18. I know. The MSM has been W's accomplice in this war against Iraq

And no, Americans don't seem to care.

[ninkasi]

15. Why is it, I wonder

that some of us are so haunted by this war? I was opposed to it from the very beginning, just as many of us here were. I read about the violence, the death, the maiming, and the destruction of everything that matters to the Iraqis. I go to the grocery store, and feel revulsion at the countless products on display, because I remember a story I read before my trip, about people being killed at a bakery, or a vegetable stand, trying to buy food. I plan on gifts for my grandchildren, and great-nephews, and images of dead Iraqi children are in my thoughts.

It seems that almost every aspect of my life is tainted by thoughts of what life must be like for my counterpart in Iraq, a 63 year old grandmother, who most of all loves her family, and her close friends. My husband says I am too caught up in my disgust for this war. I answer that while I opposed it, it's still my country which caused it, and the president, as much as I loathe him, who is the one most responsible.

The horrible pain we have inflicted upon Iraq is utterly without redemption. Aside from Bush's egotistical desire to be a "war president", a goal which apparently enabled him to ignore the destruction of another country, and the enriching of Bush and Cheney's cronies bank accounts, there is absolutely no reason that this war should have been started. I am devastated that the country I was born in has so abandoned any pretense at having moral principles, that we have engaged in the complete and utter brutality that has defined this war.

Why is it that we who opposed this crisis from the beginning, are the ones who are feeling the most guilt now? How can Bush, and Cheney, and the others have a single second of peace, knowing what disaster they have unleashed? My only conclusion is that they are completely amoral, caring only about their own interests, and that the lives of hundreds of thousands of us are not worth a second of their time, or thought. I can't wait for them to be gone completely in 2008.

[Erika]

17. True, W wanted to be a war president

and he sought what he thought was an easy target.

I will never forget, and it will haunt me forever, the pic of the 13 year old Iraqi boy who got his limbs shot off in W's shock and awe campaign. Never will I forget.

We have decimated a country. Yes, the GOP should be wiped off the counters, to the floors, to be swept up as trash in 2008, and emptied accordingly.

[ninkasi]

22. Was that Ali?

He lost both arms in that campaign, and I will never forget his face, twisted with pain, and shock. I remember that he was quoted as saying that without arms, he would never be able to support a family. It was heartbreaking to think of a child that age, already worrying not so much about himself, as about whether he would be able to fulfill his future obligations to be a productive member of society.

I compared that to Bush, and his complete sense of entitlement. He has never had to do an honest day's work in his life. He has always had his daddy, and daddy's rich friends, clean up his messes. He has never had to worry about fulfilling obligations to anybody, including his family. I hope and pray that Ali is as well as he can be. I don't know about other Americans, but the "shock" part of the invasion was one which applied to me, and not in a good way.

[JI7]

19. i keep thinking about that girl that was raped

like you i opposed it also. but it's not enough to have just opposed the war. it's like saying you disagreed with some family member on something but did nothing about something horrible you knew they were about to do. i know we don't have so much power that we can easily stop things from happening. but that doesn't make it any easier to deal with things.

[Erika]

20. But, we can at least say "Not in My Name" and be proud

that we did it from the start.

The Bushbots and so many others did not stand up and take a stand. We did.

I did it to letters to the editors and calls to the D.C. reps. We tried, we didn't blindly follow.

[ninkasi]

27. That's just it

So many protested, marched, wrote letters, called their congressmen, but in the end, nothing we did stopped it. Strange, isn't it, that those of us with the least power to prevent this invasion are the ones most likely to feel guilty about it. Conservatives certainly seem to feel no guilt, or shame, at having so avidly supported this tragedy. Even now, the conservatives who are critical of the war are not so much critical of the idea itself, as much as the way it has been executed. No, none of that makes it easier to deal with things.

[Smarmie Doofus]

23. All due respect to the magnificent Mr. Herbert.....

>>>The war has now lasted as long as the American involvement in World War II. But there is no sense of collective sacrifice in this war, no shared burden of responsibility.>>>>

... what's missing is a sense of collective *guilt*.

[Smarmie Doofus]

25. But then, psychopathic belief systems dont allow....

... for guilt, do they?

[JI7]

26. exactly, we are in the wrong in this case

i wonder if that is part of the reason people don't seem to care. it's so hard for so many still to acknowledge that we could be so wrong and do such a horrible thing. better to ignoreand go on with our lives.

[Skittles]

24. THANK YOU MR. HERBERT

I think that is really what sickened me the most about Friday - images of complete despair in Iraq mixed with the images of greedy Americans so f***ing eager to go shopping - it just sickened me

[tavalon]

36. I'm always disgusted by the eagerness of Americans

to be greedy consumers. I participate in Buy Nothing Day and extend that moratorium until around the middle of January. I don't care to be involved in that mode. I also live in a communal household so I'm obviously a hippie extremist (in urban camoflage - you wouldn't be able to tell by looking at me).

[moondust]

28. Think of the profits!

There's a KILLING (nyuk nyuk) being made in both cases! That's what matters! Don't depress us with your doom and gloom stories at the holidays! Those thousands of people didn't have a chance in hell of ever becoming billionaires anyway! Wheeeeee!!

[OneBlueSky]

29. "gleeful Americans with fistfuls of dollars" . . .

more likely gleeful Americans with fistfuls of credit cards -- and credit lines that exceed their annual salaries . . .

[earth mom]

30. I was sickened by the PS 3 release, then by the insanity of Black Friday ...

All of it reeks of greed and shallowness.

But even here on DU there were people who screeched and howled in defense of such behavior-it's their gawd given American right to have fun and celebrate the holidays any way they want to gawd damn it!

Meanwhile who gives a shit that our "fun" is being done at the expense and sacrifice of Iraqis, Chinese and other oppressed countries the US has exploited?! Excuse me, but how is it "fun" when the "fun" we're having here is in direct correlation to how much "suffering" someone else is experiencing?

[Skittles]

33. you noticed that too huh

very disconcerting to see on the DU but it shows how rampant greed and materialism have become

[Bill McBlueState]

31. why should Americans feel personal responsibility for the war?

"The war was started by the U.S., but most Americans feel absolutely no sense of personal responsibility for it."

I wasn't the one who decided to wage this war. I protest it, I speak against it, but I'm not taking responsibility for it.

And if I decide it's time to buy solstice gifts for my family, I think I can go do that without somehow compromising my morals.

[Skittles]

34. exhibit number one

yes indeed

[Bill McBlueState]

37. some clarification?

So what are you saying people should or shouldn't do while there's suffering in Iraq?

Your response, as limited as it is, seems to suggest that there's something wrong with shopping for holiday gifts as long as people in the world are suffering. I'm just wondering to what extent we should all shut our lives down when the thugs who stole our government do something immoral, and whether all this finger-wagging actually helps to solve anything.

[treestar]

43. No that's not the point

It wasn't meant to be personal. Just a reflection on the Chimpadministration and Freepers expecting us all to be so serious - at war - on the one hand, while we really aren't "at war" in the serious sense that it meant back in the 40s.

[BlooInBloo]

32. From the snippets, it looks to me to have at least the side effect of supporting Rangel's idea....

... if that's not a deliberate goal of Herbert's.

Can anyone who has access to the full article tell me if my conjecture is definitively falsified by reading Herbert's column in its entirety?

[cassiepriam]

35. I felt the same way. How can we eat and spend all weekend

when we are detroying Iraq?

[Mika]

38. "gleeful Americans with fistfuls of dollars". Huh? Who?

More like loading up on debt. Acting like their current government.

Its very similar to the US invasion/occupation on Iraq.. destroying the US manufacturing/middle class supporting models that (will eventually) outsource their own jobs and bankrupt the social infrastructure.. all done using credit/debt.

[Vinca]

39. IMHO, the holidays should be cancelled this year and members of

Congress should return to Washington immediately. All hell breaks out on a daily basis over there and we're stuffing our faces with turkey and clubbing each other for Playstations. Except for a few families, there is no direct sacrifice as a result of this mess. In fact, some at the top are celebrating it because they're making millions. No more debating flag desecration or the "sanctity of marriage" or whether an embryo should be destroyed in the name of research or just tossed in the garbage. Time to salvage whatever is left of Iraq and get the hell out.

[DemonFighterLives]

41. Credit Card Crazies

I personally don't have that much to throw around. The b*sh economy is killing me. Taxes, insurance and everything else is expensive as hell.

The extra happy ones among us are probably profiting from the war in some way. I often wondered how the 19% of dubby's supporters can cling on to him.

Wait until the costs of this war and over spending non-conservative regime comes home to roost. Trillions in debt and millions around the world, maimed, tortured and dead.
What a legacy!
:dem:

[Gregorian]

42. This is a war for comfort.

The British empire did the same thing. Pillage the world for the things you want.

It's lies and blindness that gives this look you see on people's faces.

Just imagine you live in a village, 10,000 years ago, and suddenly someone gives you something that no one else in the village has. Something valuable. Something that makes your life far easier than those who don't have it. Now imagine the feeling you have as everyone goes about their days struggling while you sit and have it easy and comfortable.



As long as we see it as America versus everyone else, we're going to be comfortable and unhappy. By the way, happiness doesn't come from things. But the answer is sharing. The answer is that America is just part of the whole world. Darfurians are scattering from gunshot and helicopter fire as we sit here. The Europeans who want to have their petroleum are also killing for oil.

We all go to hell this way. Or we can treat each other as human beings.

I'm surprised at how long it took for me to see an article like this in the paper. Now I wonder how much longer before we all work together as one. I'm not counting on The Arrogant One and his gang of thieves on doing that soon.

[ArmchairMeme]

44. Debt postponed

It looks like a large portion of Americans are quick to consume now and pay later .
The same way that the *administration set up the cost of this war to be paid for by future generations so the current genertion does not have to worry their pretty minds about it.

The MSM has been instrumental in not covering the atrocities of war but covering celebraties, sports, weather, traffic, missing children, etc. anything to divert attention from the ever growing problems of being involved in a failed war or occupation.

I don't believe it a war because it was clear that Iraq after years of sanctions and the northern and southern no-fly zones had been brought to a place where it was not capable of fighting back. It appeared to be a quick win - surprise.

It will be a long wait for the MSM to talk of a failed invasion/occupation that is by far more costly than shoppers here would want to contemplate.

Yes, Americans are shopping while Iraq decends into anarchy.