I Just Don't Care That Much About Impeachment

[cali]

What's most important to me is that investigations spell out ALL the malfeasance of the administration, and that the results of said investigation are widely known by all. If he's impeached and convicted, great, if not, I can live with that, and with the knowledge that history will treat him harshly.

[seabeyond]

1. i am with you cali. i want people to KNOW what he/they did

exposed, out there. that is what is important for me too

[bryant69]

2. I agree as well

any measure of justice is better than no justice - and sometimes you have to take what you can get.

I don't think History is going to be kind to Bush.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Vorta]

5. Maybe not. But the GOP will manage to name something after him. eom

[Vorta]

3. agreed eom

[HereSince1628]

4. I hope it's about teaching future politicians lessons on proper governing.

So that if they consider misleading they do it with a knowledge that they will ultimately be held accountable. And as a lesson to future Congress critters that tyranny is always a domestic danger and that the Congress must always remain vigilante in its oversight and resistant to surrending or having their role usurped by Executive abuse of power.

Hopefully, if history treats Bush harshly it will serve that end.

[WilliamPitt]

6. Bingo

...and help us expand our majority in Congress, and help us win back the White House.

Pssst...the fight for SCOTUS isn't over.

[conscious evolution]

10. 'the fight for SCOTUS isn't over.'

What!
More please!!!!!

[WilliamPitt]

16. OK

John Paul Stevens was born in 1920. He is 86.

Scalia was born in 1936. He is 70.

So was Anthony Kennedy. Also 70.

Souter was born in 1939. 67 years old.

Ginsberg was born in 1933. 73 years old.

Bryer was born in 1938. 68 years old.

O'Connor was born in 1930. 76 years old.

So, that's seven of nine Justices older than 65, three above the age of 70, and one knocking on the door of 90.

This will become a serious, era-defining issue within the next 5-10 years.

[stepnw1f]

18. Just Imagine if We Have Dems in Office "within the next 5-10 years"

Keep the eye on the prize!

[elocs]

26. Absolutely right, and I would prefer to have Democrats in power to control it.

There are too many who are more than willing to engage in a futile impeachment process and trade away our future. They are not only out of touch with reality, they are short-sighted.

[Toots]

7. I would rather they be indicted than impeached

Their agenda is done. There is no way they will get their stuff past Congress now. Take our time and get the facts. Then when they are out of office indict their ass and send them where they belong, Prison...

[elocs]

24. That is an interesting concept that should be discussed more.

All impeachment shows is that the Democrats have the ability and the number of votes to pass the articles of impeachment. In 2 years there is not enough time, but if there is, Bush will never be convicted by the Senate. Try and impeach both Bush and Cheney and it will appear to the American people that the Democrats are trying to pull off a coup that would install Pelosi as president. It makes no difference that it will never happen, but it is the appearance that is important.

Now imagine that the Democrats investigate the hell out of everything for the next 2 years without impeachment. Now imagine a Democrat is elected president in 2008 while they increase their leads in Congress. Bush and Cheney and all the others are now private citizens without a president to pardon them. Now they are indicted on criminal charges like any other citizen and the investigations have all been done and the evidence is there for the taking. Now THAT would be interesting and it would keep the Republican and BushCo sins in the limelight for years.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Bush Continues to Assault The Constitution

Bush continues to attack our constitution, day by day, with his signing statements stating that the Courts and Congress have no authority over him.

Rights must be used, or they can be lost. We must impeach now.

[KharmaTrain]

9. True Justice Is Handled In The Courts...not by Politicians

There's so much muck and corruption...this will take years to bring to light and sort out. But it must be investigated and ALL who planned, financed, enabled and profited from these crimes must be held accountable. This isn't done by 100 Senators of 435 Congrescritters with their pinkies always to the polls and political winds but in a court of law with a jury of peers whose only "mandate" is to evalute guilt and innocense on the evidence and not worried about running for re-election.

The constant drip drip drip of sleeze was a major factor in the Democratic party gains in '06, and I see the parade going on for the foreseeable future. The history books will be the ultimate political judge on this regime as boooosh will easily move Warren Harding and U.S. Grant from the "worst" ranks.

My hope is the more the crimes are brought to light and prosecuted, it will constantly remind people how repressive this regime was and to keep Repugnicans out of any real power for decades to come.

[fredrickdouglas]

11. Impeachment: Revenge or The Law?

Remembering now, impeachment is just an early retirement for a former president. It's not as if we're sending the guy up for 20 years or giving him a death sentence.

Now the fact that he has given hundreds of thousands of death sentences, pay that no attention. Keep your eye on Nancy Pelosi, other Dems and CNN anchors using the word 'revenge'.

As if George Bush has not actually broken laws, as if he hasn't actually killed people. These things haven't actually happened.

The word of the day is r-e-v-e-n-g-e.

[ElboRuum]

12. While I believe that it is important to...

"spell out ALL the malfeasance of the administration", as you put it, impeachment sends two messages which are extremely important to send to our governing bodies and the executive specifically:

1) Your position will not protect you.
2) We are willing to exercise our oversight power to protect the Constitution from destruction even though it has never been exercised before. Put another way, these just aren't words on paper which no one has the brass to take seriously.

[cali]

13. I can't agree

There will always be people who attain power, who will abuse it no matter what the lessons of past teach. Impeachment won't prevent that.

[ElboRuum]

36. Well, that's true to a point.

You could equally well say that there will always be people who commit crimes regardless of the consequences, and that incarceration won't prevent that... but we still believe in punishing the guilty, don't we?

[elocs]

23. All impeachment shows

is that the Democrats have the number of votes to pass the articles of impeachment. All the impeachment of Clinton showed is that the Republicans had the ability to pass the articles. Without conviction, impeachment simply shows the political muscle to do it. OJ was indicted (the criminal version of impeachment), tried, and not convicted of murder. How did his wife's family feel about that? Were they happy that justice was served? Bush and Cheney will walk also.

[ElboRuum]

37. Justice...

...does not exist for people to feel happy that they are in the right and that those in the wrong were punished. It exists to make sure that the game is played according to the rules. Regardless of the outcome or your particular belief in his guilt or innocence, do you think that it was necessary for OJ to be indicted? Do you think that prosecution was necessary? Do you thing that it was correct to proceed with criminal proceedings against him?

[elocs]

38. Many DAs will not even indict if there is no possibility of conviction.

John Dean on the Impeachment of the President: http://www.truthdig.com/interview/item/20060912_john_dean_impeachment_president/

According to Dean:

"Should the House impeach a president who will never be convicted? When the House files articles of impeachment with the Senate, it is acting in a manner analogous to that of a prosecutor. But prosecutors do not indict people they know they cannot convict. Should the House adopt a similar standard? Is it not blatantly political to undertake impeachment when there is no chance of conviction? This, of course, is what the House Republicans did with Clinton: They impeached him because they could, although they knew they did not have the votes in the Senate to convict. Do Democrats want to mimic that sorry exercise? I hope not."

Please list all of those in the Democratic leadership who are now calling for impeachment. The next Speaker of the House, Pelosi, says it is off the table and Conyers agrees. Are these stupid people or simply Republican dupes? Do you think that they do not know what impeachment is all about? Do you think they care nothing for justice? Perhaps since they know that Bush will never be convicted that they plan to get as much out of hearings and oversight as they can. Perhaps they would prefer that Democrats win the White House in 2008 and expand their lead in the Congress. Perhaps they realize with no current ongoing investigations into what Bush has done that it is likely that impeachment would never be completed until Bush is already out of office. Perhaps they believe that the American people who voted for Democrats in the last election expect the Democrats to actually try to do something other than to impeach the president. Because impeachment was NOT the platform on which Democrats ran on during the midterm elections. Life is not fair and this is an imperfect world. Often justice is not served and you have to take and be satisfied with what you can get. Any good DA knows that and knows that they should not be railroaded into indicting someone when the DA knows upfront that there is no possibility at the time for conviction. You investigate and collect evidence until you have a possibility of conviction.

The Brown family was certainly not satisfied that OJ walked after he was not convicted for murder and those who are so nobly screaming for justice to be served by impeachment will not be satisfied when Bush walks. I wonder if they will be satisfied if there is a President McCain and polls show that impeachment had a great part in that happening? No, impeachment is the only thing that is important and they are willing to sacrifice all the good that Democrats could bring to the American people for years to serve their temporary gratification of impeachment.

[devilgrrl]

14. Neither do I. It's just slap on the wrist. I want imprisonment!

Off to the Hague with these assholes.

[cali]

15. I know the feeling, but

that ain't gonna happen. Not in this lifetime.

[devilgrrl]

20. Ain't it great being above the law?

What's the point of having them?

[elocs]

25. If you are intelligent enough to post here,

then you must be intelligent enough to know that Bush will never be convicted by the Senate and that he will never go to prison or to the Hague. Ask yourself, why aren't our Democratic leaders such as Pelosi, Conyers, or even my own Senator Feingold livid and screaming for impeachment? Might it be because they want to see the Democrats remain in power for many years and not become involved in a process that is doomed to failure (not convicted=failure)? Life is not fair and sometimes people do get away with things, but investigations outside of impeachment will expose all of what BushCo has done to the light for all Americans to see without having it look to them like it is an act of revenge (If you are honest, you should admit that for many it is about revenge. They are nearly beside themselves in anticipation of it and foaming at the mouth in demanding it.)
Investigate, investigate, investigate, and then when Bush is a private citizen he can be indicted and if we elect a Democrat as president in 2008 there will be nobody to pardon him.

[stepnw1f]

17. I Agree with You cali

Let the country and the World know that our system of government does work! We just need to make sure the right people are there.

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. I disagree.

Simply getting the truth out there is not sufficient. The malfeants must be convicted and punished, or it will be forgotten - the American public has an abyssmally short memory. We have Iran/Contra criminals making policy in this administration because those few were actually went to trial got a slap on the wrist and quick reprieves. It was all business as usual.

Well, it should not be usual. The kinds of criminal conduct that we KNOW has occurred must be dealt with severely, to prove that it is UNUSUAL, that it is anything but business as usual, and by dealing with it that way we will make it unusual. A nation can survive many things - wars, famines, plagues, all sorts of disasters, but one thing it cannot survive is the loss of confidence in its own government. Down that path lies civil disorder and, eventually, civil war. Strict accountability can restore that confidence.

We must see full investigations, followed by impeachment, not for the good of the Democratic party but for the good of the nation.

[elocs]

28. Exactly how will Bush and/or Cheney be convicted and punished?

Who exactly are the 16 Republican senators who would vote for conviction? Do you think all of the Democratic senators will vote for conviction because I don't see Lieberman doing it? It's time to come down from that noble pedestal of justice and deal with reality. The reality is that neither Bush nor Cheney are going to be convicted and punished while they are in office. Plus once impeachment is done and over, the wind will be out of the sails and the American people will be sick and tired of the entire thing.

[cali]

31. Asking that question now, before investigations have

taken place, is pointless. If investigations reveal concrete evidence of an overwhelming nature, repubs will have no choice but to vote for conviction.

[elocs]

33. Republicans will always have a choice.

If they don't, then all 49 of them would vote to convict. Since that will not happen, it infers that the ones who voted not to convict had a choice. If they had a choice, then they all had a choice, even the beloved Senator Lieberman. When every other senator voted for the Patriot Act, did my own Senator Feingold have a choice? He sure did, and he voted "no". You always have a choice.

[William769]

21. Concise & to the point & spot on.

[cali]

22. Why thanks, Will. n/t

[VaYallaDawg]

27. Totally correct. Impeachment is not the only way to pass down the truth.

A good example - Warren Harding and the Teapot Dome Scandal. He wasn't impeached but his name is forever linked to the wickedness and corruption that became the trademarks of his administration. In fact, so much so, that he became almost unknown as a president, and that's what no president wants to see happen. In many ways, history is their own most fitting reward.

[Pyrzqxgl]

40. When investigations brought forth indisputable evidence of his guilt Nixon resigned

no Impeachment was needed. So Investigate already!!!

[Marie26]

29. Agreed.

By the time they finish the investigation, he'll be almost gone anyway. Besides, Bush/Cheney can still be prosecuted for any crimes once they're out of office.

[derby378]

30. You're kidding me, right?

:shrug:

[cali]

32. Nope. I meant what I said.

Why are you so astonished?

[derby378]

39. The man has inflicted injury upon this nation and its people

He didn't do it simply by being a bumbling idiot - he did it by flagrantly defying the Constitution and subverting the democratic process.

If his actions don't warrant impeachment, then neither do Nixon's or Andrew Johnson's. He must be held to account for once in his sheltered life.

[loyalsister]

34. I agree

Let's make sure history gives an accurate portrayal of this administration.
I would add that we should not forget that the "jurors" in the Senate would not only be responsible for hearing and evaluating facts. They are elected officials and that responsibility is at odds with public influence. This happens with legislation all the time I see no reason why we should expect anything different in an impeachment process.
It's easy to say that public opinion will demand impeachment, but lets not forget the propaganda machine that this WH has created and the fact that in all likelihood they would pursue a PR campaign as a part of their defense. Bush may have low approval ratings right now, but the fact of the matter is, people find him likable and he can pull off victim status effectively.
Senators and reps will have people writing in asking them to vote a particular way. If they belong to the Farmers union or other middle of the road group courted in Iowa or Missouri, it will carry some weight with senators from both parties.

[partylessinOhio]

35. Bush has fully earned his Impeachment. We need to move on it.

This is no time for argument or taking sides. Impeachment was cheapened when the Repugs used it against a man they hated.

We need to restore dignity to Impeachment and dignity to this Nation.